Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[paxsarah]

Your cup is half-full, not half-empty! You get everything a NON-VIP retail purchaser gets! And even pay a lower program fee!
I thought Plus-Perks is open to all with an annual membership fee! It's free for me now but I have never used it because it's not that useful!

We do not get everything a non-VIP retail purchaser gets. The reason we pay the lower program fee is because we don't have access to Plus Partners (not to be confused with Perks, which is a fairly mundane discount program that I'm pretty sure we also don't have access to, with something like a $59 annual fee). In the past it was possible to enroll a resale-only account into Plus Partners for a fee of over $2,000, but it may not be possible to do this any longer and I really don't see how it would be worth it. Plus Partners allows for access to RCI points inventory and nightly stays (in addition to the RCI weeks inventory and cash vacations we are limited to). It also allows for access to other travel-related uses of points (transfer to WR, cruises, car rentals, etc.) which are widely considered to be a poor use of points/MFs. And of course we don't have access to Club Pass.

Make no mistake, I don't miss those things and it was worth it to me to save money and forego those benefits. In fact, I don't see any reason at all for an educated owner or prospective buyer to pay retail prices to get those benefits if the ultimate goal isn't VIP. But we don't get exactly the same benefits as non-VIP retail buyers.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the difference in program fee is mentioned far often than is warranted. On a million point resale account, the difference between that and a retail account would be 20 bucks. It's truly unimportant, except for Wyndham's own accounting purposes.

 

[dgalati]

TBH if I were 40-50 years old, I probably would have bought benefits prior to 2012. Back then you only needed 500,000 pts to be Gold. Also, the purchase price was cheaper back then compared to today including inflation. If you were to do a simple 3% inflation calculation, $40,000 now was $22,147 in the year 2000. Now $40,000 only buys 158,000 points at retail price. What did $22,147 buy at retail price back in 2000?

My uncle paid 18k for 308,000 points @ Grand Desert in 2001. This is a Silver VIP.

 

[SNA27]

TBH if I were 40-50 years old, I probably would have bought benefits prior to 2012. Back then you only needed 500,000 pts to be Gold. Also, the purchase price was cheaper back then compared to today including inflation. If you were to do a simple 3% inflation calculation, $40,000 now was $22,147 in the year 2000. Now $40,000 only buys 158,000 points at retail price. What did $22,147 buy at retail price back in 2000?

158,000? Trick question?
In July 2016, I got sucked into the Wyndham TS Vortex, paying ~$40k for 210k CWA points (~$186/1000) starting from 2017 + 210k bonus (2017-2018)!
Looks like 186 (discounted price, haha! ;-) interpolates nicely between 253 and 140!

 

[cbyrne1174]

My uncle paid 18k for 308,000 points @ Grand Desert in 2001. This is a Silver VIP.

And that's a much more reasonable price to be Silver VIP than 500,000 points required at the end of 2020.

158,000? Trick question?
In July 2016, I got sucked into the Wyndham TS Vortex, paying ~$40k for 210k CWA points (~$186/1000) starting from 2017 + 210k bonus (2017-2018)!
Looks like 186 (discounted price, haha! ;-) interpolates nicely between 253 and 140!

Ouch!

 

[dgalati]

And that's a much more reasonable price to be Silver VIP than 500,000 points required at the end of 2020.


Ouch!

It was about 1/4 the cost at $58.44/1000

 

[Braindead]

My uncle paid 18k for 308,000 points @ Grand Desert in 2001. This is a Silver VIP.

It’s cheaper per point today using PICs & obtaining a VIP Gold account

 

[dgalati]

It’s cheaper per point today using PICs & obtaining a VIP Gold account

PIC wasn't a option for Uncle. He bought back in the Fairfield days before Wyndham came to be. Either way Its still way to expensive IMHO. Especially if you need ARP and need to book before the 60 day discount can be taken advantage of. I do not find buying to be cost effective over renting for my travel needs.

 

[cbyrne1174]

PICs aren't a lifetime guarantee. If they change affiliation, you lose your status.

 

[capital city]

PICs aren't a lifetime guarantee. If they change affiliation, you lose your status.

That's what's held me back from going all in. The changes coming up and not knowing will PICs still be good (I think they will) and will resale keep VIP privileges if your VIP ( I think they will). Does Wyndham realize their wishy washy days of changing benefits effect people's decisions to give them $70k?

 

[dgalati]

That's what's held me back from going all in. The changes coming up and not knowing will PICs still be good (I think they will) and will resale keep VIP privileges if your VIP ( I think they will). Does Wyndham realize their wishy washy days of changing benefits effect people's decisions to give them $70k?

In regards to Resale getting VIP privileges. It is a loophole being taken advantage of. Costing all owners. See attached.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I'd venture to guess that most resale sellers aren't aware of Ovations. I had a friend that offered me her Bonnet Creek contract (free if I paid the transfer fees) and I sent her to Ovations. Surely those selling resale outside of Ovations are being taken advantage of coming and going? They are paying someone to take the timeshare off their hands, and many are willing to take them paying almost nothing for them. Even though it seems a ripoff to buy something for a crazy amount of money and then give it back, I look at Ovations as part of the solution for Wyndham to try and keep contracts off the resale market.

 

[ecwinch]

In regards to Resale getting VIP privileges. It is a loophole being taken advantage of. Costing all owners. See attached.

PSA: This post is easy to misunderstand if you have not followed this voluminous thread and don’t understand the shorthand being used.... I believe what you mean to say is:

Points from resale contracts in a VIP account won’t receive VIP unit upgrades or pts discounts.

And yes, I do imagine this benefit will disappear soon. Far more likely to occur than PICs going away.

 

[SNA27]

PSA: This post is easy to misunderstand if you have not followed this voluminous thread and don’t understand the shorthand being used.... I believe what you mean to say is:

Points from resale contracts in a VIP account won’t receive VIP unit upgrades or pts discounts.

And yes, I do imagine this benefit will disappear soon. Far more likely to occur than PICs going away.

So, what or where's the loophole, if resale points do not qualify for VIP benefits as stated in the directory? What benefit will disappear if it's not there now?

I have heard Wyndham employees own multiple PICs. When I was in Pagosa, they actually got me to talk to a guy who knew the ins and outs of PICs and RCI etc. So, I feel confident PICs are not going away. And RCI makes a good chunk of money for Wyndham!

 

[Braindead]

I like to look at a CEOs past to see what they’ve done & likely to do in the future.
Our current CEO came over from HGVC.
HGVC rules state that you can only rent your home week, meaning where you own & season you own.
If CEO Mr. Brown sees cheap rentals as a problem what’s likely to happen looking at his past.
Club Rules will change only allowing for ARP reservations to be rented. I think this might be the first change tried to see if it stops cheap rentals along with increasing sales.

Resale treatment in VIPs account could change also. But that will be the second item if the above isn’t enough. I don’t think Wyndham wants the VIPs resale contracts at this time

If one or both happen say goodbye to cheap rentals

 

[SNA27]

I like to look at a CEOs past to see what they’ve done & likely to do in the future.
Our current CEO came over from HGVC.
HGVC rules state that you can only rent your home week, meaning where you own & season you own.
If CEO Mr. Brown sees cheap rentals as a problem what’s likely to happen looking at his past.
Club Rules will change only allowing for ARP reservations to be rented. I think this might be the first change tried to see if it stops cheap rentals along with increasing sales.

Resale treatment in VIPs account could change also. But that will be the second item if the above isn’t enough. I don’t think Wyndham wants the VIPs resale contracts at this time

If one or both happen say goodbye to cheap rentals

While we are chewing the cud, here are some questions:
What's the HOME resort for CWA?
Why restrict a CWS deed to ARP only? What's the harm in renting during Standard and Express windows?

 

[Braindead]

What's the HOME resort for CWA?
Why restrict a CWS deed to ARP only? What's the harm in renting during Standard and Express windows?

CWA has ARP at over 70 resorts, would it increase the value of CWA contracts ? Who knows.

HGVC rules state you cannot rent reservations using Club Points. I believe HGVC Club Points start at 9 months that’s what we call the Standard Reservation window.
We say points are points at 10 months for HGVC points are points at 9 months.
What effect would this have?
In theory:
Every owner will see more availability at 10 months or less, since your not competing with owners looking for rentals, it should increase availability.
VIPs will actually see more availability for discounts & upgrades, VIPs will not be competing with VIPs looking for discounts & upgrades for rentals.

Eliminate cheap rentals makes buying look like a better option than the way it is today increasing sales.
Allow Standard & Express window reservations into EH, allows Wyndham to collect 40% & control the rental rates.

 

[dgalati]

So, what or where's the loophole, if resale points do not qualify for VIP benefits as stated in the directory? What benefit will disappear if it's not there now?

I have heard Wyndham employees own multiple PICs. When I was in Pagosa, they actually got me to talk to a guy who knew the ins and outs of PICs and RCI etc. So, I feel confident PICs are not going away. And RCI makes a good chunk of money for Wyndham!

View attachment 16073

Many VIP owners own millions of resale points. When all developer bought VIP points have been used the resale points are used in the 50% discount window or with free room upgrades as a VIP benefit. Clearly it is against Wyndham rules to use Resale points with VIP benefits. Who is to blame when Wyndham closes this loophole that is being abused?

 

[ecwinch]

Who is to blame when Wyndham closes this loophole that is being abused?

dgalati..... it always seems like your posts are designed to maximize the shock value of whatever point you are making.
I have resale points. I am a VIP owner. My resale points do in fact receive my VIP discount as you you point out.

But am I "abusing" the system?

That seems a little more inflammatory than necessary.

 

[dgalati]

So, what or where's the loophole, if resale points do not qualify for VIP benefits as stated in the directory? What benefit will disappear if it's not there now?

I have heard Wyndham employees own multiple PICs. When I was in Pagosa, they actually got me to talk to a guy who knew the ins and outs of PICs and RCI etc. So, I feel confident PICs are not going away. And RCI makes a good chunk of money for Wyndham!

View attachment 16073

Its against rules but system lets VIP book resale points and use as a VIP benefit. Many VIP owners have used this loophole. If closed it would benefit all VIP owners by eliminating all the cheap rentals. This would also help EH like BD stated. It would eliminate the competition to EH. This would help Wyndham's bottom line and stock price. Building a stonger case for @Fredflintstone to rent with the purchase of Wyndham stock while using the dividends as a way to travel for less.

 

[comicbookman]

Many VIP owners own millions of resale points. When all developer bought VIP points have been used the resale points are used in the 50% discount window or with free room upgrades as a VIP benefit. Clearly it is against Wyndham rules to use Resale points with VIP benefits. Who is to blame when Wyndham closes this loophole that is being abused?

As a VIPP owner with substantial resales points add on top of my dev points I watch this discussion with much amusement. I used to own twice as many resale, but don't travel as much as we did when we had 2 teenagers participating in year round sports. the basic assumption here is that enforcing the rules on resale and VIP benefits will have a major impact. I would submit that this is a false assumption. In the era of the mega renters, definitely. Now i would guess that most VIPP owners with resale points rarely get discounts on more than their million plus dev points. I base this on my own experience and several conversations with other similar owners. I personally would like to see ALL of the rules followed with regard to VIP benefits. This includes no benefits for resale reservations, but also room requests, dedicated check in etc. I truly believe that those rules would have a larger impact than not giving VIP's benefits were never promised.

 

[ecwinch]

If the "system" fails to enforce a rule that the "system" developer has unilaterally created and fails to enforce, I would make the argument that the "system" has effectively waived the rule.

Which people that make rules are free to do at their leisure, and that happens all the time. It is the real-world we live in.

 

[Braindead]

As a VIPP owner with substantial resales points add on top of my dev points I watch this discussion with much amusement. I used to own twice as many resale, but don't travel as much as we did when we had 2 teenagers participating in year round sports. the basic assumption here is that enforcing the rules on resale and VIP benefits will have a major impact. I would submit that this is a false assumption. In the era of the mega renters, definitely. Now i would guess that most VIPP owners with resale points rarely get discounts on more than their million plus dev points. I base this on my own experience and several conversations with other similar owners. I personally would like to see ALL of the rules followed with regard to VIP benefits. This includes no benefits for resale reservations, but also room requests, dedicated check in etc. I truly believe that those rules would have a larger impact than not giving VIP's benefits were never promised.

X2!! Couldn’t agree more!!!

 

[dgalati]

dgalati..... it always seems like your posts are designed to maximize the shock value of whatever point you are making.
I have resale points. I am a VIP owner. My resale points do in fact receive my VIP discount as you you point out.

But am I "abusing" the system?

That seems a little more inflammatory than necessary.

If millions of resale points are blocked from recieving the VIP benefits wouldn't you agree a VIP with no resale points would have a better chance of recieving what they paid for? Free upgrades and more availability in the 50% discount window would improve with this loophole being corrected by Wyndham.

 

[dgalati]

If the "system" fails to enforce a rule that the "system" developer has unilaterally created and fails to enforce, I would make the argument that the "system" has effectively waived the rule.

Which people that make rules are free to do at their leisure, and that happens all the time. It is the real-world we live in.

So when a VIP complains they are not recieving instant upgrades or there is no availability who is to blame? Wyndham or the VIP owner that has used the loophole to their advantage. Many were quick to point a finger at the megarenters when they used loopholes. Would you say this statement should have applied to them also then? If the "system" fails to enforce a rule that the "system" developer has unilaterally created and fails to enforce, I would make the argument that the "system" has effectively waived the rule.

 

[SNA27]

It should be easy to track retail and resale points separately. This is already done in the backend systems.
It's Voyager that needs to be fixed, quite easily imo, to not club all the points together in a use-year but instead track retail versus resale separately. They do that with Bonus points right now.
Just track resale points in a separate use-year bucket and apply the VIP rules only to the retail use-year buckets. This should have been done prior to any directory changes!

But, I am willing to bet, they have already quantified the cost of 'unpromised VIP benefits availed' and decided to put it on the back burner while they are busy working on the Privileges program!