Wyndham eliminating mega-renters

[lost patience]

I would think the system would block the transaction from going through unless the owner also had a reservation for themselves. I have 28 guests certificates left so I a reservation for me and a fake guest. Then cancel my reservation and see if the system cancels the guest reservation. I hope it does cancel it or there's a problem.

Wouldn't you need to have 3 in guest names? Two would be the 2 that are allowed each year. The 3rd would be the one that would not be allowed.

 

[CO skier]

Its a July use year. No worries I have it covered. I figure transfer by beginning of 2022. This should give me 800k of points to use in a little over 6 month time span. Even if I pay the $180 per month in maintenance fees Its still a great deal at around $2.70/1000

Like a few other posters, it seems you change your tune when Wyndham changes the rules.

Now you are ready to commit for 800k worth of maintenance fees? Ummmmm ... I don't know.

I agree on renting. The way I travel its cheaper for me to rent then to pay maintenance fees. Also I like no commitment to the finacial burden of paying maintenance fees. Especially now with the resorts all closed but fees continue.

 

[dgalati]

Only time will tell -
I am not questioning your theory / I would like to read your Aug. 2022 thread on you it worked out.

HEY HEY HEY! You have to be smarter then the average bear Ranger Smith!

 

[Sloane S]

Unknown. I don't know what it was about. Maybe the unlimited guest certificate change? I know the change angered a lot of VIPP members and there was talk of suing. Thirty free GCs is way too many for me, but not enough for others. I guess the change ate into their profits.

That was basically it, along with throwing in a deceptive sales practices claim saying that Wynnencouraged them to buy for rental. They owned over 50 million points.

 

[dgalati]

Like a few other posters, it seems you change your tune when Wyndham changes the rules.

Now you are ready to commit for 800k worth of maintenance fees? Ummmmm ... I don't know.

Its only 400k with 400k available in 6 months total of 800k. If I am lucky the sellers paid maintenance fee in full for the year. Like @am1 said you have to adapt and change your strategy if you want to survive.

 

[troy12n]

Its only 400k with 400k available in 6 months total of 800k. If I am lucky the sellers paid maintenance fee in full for the year. Like @am1 said you have to adapt and change your strategy if you want to survive.

So is your long term strategy to hold this or use next year and dump it?

 

[ronparise]

I think you're making a bit of a non-sequitur here in regard to the people calling sales weasels liars.

Firstly, many of these very smart and experienced folks are smart and experienced because they were duped by salespeople. They warn others because they don't want them to fall in the same trap. So "You call them liars but you fell for the lies" is cart before horse. They fell for lies, and now call them liars.

Secondly, the resale loophole wasn't a lie per se. It was an exploit salesmen taught in order to convince smart and experienced folks to buy from them. The weasels didn't know Wyndham would crack down on this exploit, or when. And, of course, if they did know, they weren't going to share that information with their marks.

I personally share the satisfaction of many other owners in this loophole closure, but a little bit of empathy for the owners this affects and how they got to where this affects them would go a long way.

Its been a while. but didnt Wyndham figure out how to deal with the "cancel/rebook for a discount" thing. And if thats the case. the only discounts available would be 60 days ahead of check in.
Has anyone really been able to make any money renting the time that no owners want to use?

My point is that

I have no skin in the game, but the comment about "paid all my maintenance fees" isn't necessarily accurate is it? Does Wyndham require prepaying MFs on points borrowed from future years?

I didnt pay the maintenance for 2015 points when I used them in 2013...thats correct, but someone else did...You have to understand how the credit pool worked to get that

The credit pool allowed an owner to deposit his current years points into the credit pool and use them at any time from the day of deposit to up to three years out, It also allowed an owner to deposit the next years points and the following years points into the pool, and use them at any time from the date of deposit to three years out What that meant for me is that if I bought a contract in 2013, I could deposit the 2013, 2014 and 2015 points into the pool and use them immediately. If that was all there was to the story you would be correct,,,i used the points but didnt have to pay for them until later

But there is more to the story than that.... When I used the 2015 points in 2013 I really didnt use my 2015 points... I actually used someone else's 2013 points that he deposited. (and was paying maintenance fees for.) My 2015 points stayed in the pool for someone else to use in 2015 and that I was obligated to pay the fees for.

It never happened to me, but it was possible to go to the pool to make a reservation and the pool would be empty for that year. To make a reservation you would have to wait until someone else deposited their points

 

[ronparise]

Ethics - sometimes the standpoint is based on where you are standing and where you come from.

One day a poster showed up in the Wyndham forum - asking what do do - I believe they were a couple of months in arrears on MF - and personal life circumstances were difficult. ; and so they were staring at a foreclosure / collection process ........ [ this was before Ovations was a publicized program.]

At that time - @ronparise was regularly buying Wyndham contracts off eBay at an average of a penny a point . As I recall - he offered to take the contract , which also meant bringing the MF current so he could use the points he would own .
This particular contract cost him more than a penny a point / his comment as I recall -"for him , in the big picture the meter would not move enough to matter - but for the OP it was a hugh reduction in financial stress.

MY remembrance of how ethics can work

Thanks for remembering that.. Something else I remember is booking 10 or so rooms at a resort for a group of special needs kids and their parents. As I recall I had renter a room to one family for a week. They intended to host several other families and their kids for an afternoon swim party. the resort didnt like that all those, "non guests" were using the pool. So I made the additional reservations...now everyone was a guest

 

[troy12n]

If you believe that mechanics’ liens are new and limited to Florida, you haven’t owned homes in many other States. The potential is fairly universal and a good reason to pay subcontractors and material suppliers directly. That’s how we’ve dealt with the issue when we’ve done upgrades to houses in several States.

Mechanic's lien - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You don't need to mansplain Liens to me.

They serve a purpose, but not all states allow a SUB to come after a homeowner for the failings of the GC... In fact it didn't used to be like that here. A certain political party (I will let you guess which one) in an effort to pander to their construction company buddies and poltical contributors, changed the rules about 15 years ago so that they could do this.

Prior to that, Florida followed the typical "intent" of a mechanics lien, which is to prevent a HOMEOWNER from stiffing a contractor... that's fine. But in the case I gave, completely innocent homeowners can lose their homes because of a non-performing GC didn't pay their subs or suppliers.

THAT is wrong, outrageous actually... re-read my original post

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

So is your long term strategy to hold this or use next year and dump it?

I will answer the general question / and then let @dgalati answer the specific.

I have learned from a 30 something that the best answer with credit cards and their " sign up points "
Is to develop a churn and burn strategy - to maximize your leverage.

The answer on when to dump a card and pick up a new one is based variables that include what new card opportunities are available next year.

it appears to me that @dgalati as applied this process to timeshares / vacations / Wyndham points.

 

[CO skier]

Ethics - sometimes the standpoint is based on where you are standing and where you come from.

One day a poster showed up in the Wyndham forum - asking what do do - I believe they were a couple of months in arrears on MF - and personal life circumstances were difficult. ; and so they were staring at a foreclosure / collection process ........ [ this was before Ovations was a publicized program.]

At that time - @ronparise was regularly buying Wyndham contracts off eBay at an average of a penny a point . As I recall - he offered to take the contract , which also meant bringing the MF current so he could use the points he would own .
This particular contract cost him more than a penny a point / his comment as I recall -"for him , in the big picture the meter would not move enough to matter - but for the OP it was a hugh reduction in financial stress.

MY remembrance of how ethics can work

Then there is the obverse

At the meeting there was a Presidential Reserve/Platinum owner that was complaining that he was losing far too many reservations when doing the cancel/rebook/upgrade thing. His point was that he had paid for this benefit, and now he couldnt count on using it

So its not just the mega owners screwing over the little guy just trying to have a vacation with his family Its other little guys too (yes I consider anything under about 10 million points to be little when compared to the mega renters)

and yes sales is part of the problem by setting expectations too high.. they convince the average owner that he can go where he wants when he wants and he convinces the VIP buyer that he can do it at half price

and of course Im part of the problem too becauseI rub their(the other owners) noses in the reality of it all

Is this the thinking of a "nice guy?"

Which was the karma in the end?

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Then there is the obverse


Is this the thinking of a "nice guy?"

Which was the karma in the end?

I don't think @ronparise sold that Presidential Reserve owner his contract. Wyndham's nice guy salesperson did ,
and likely focused on what that salesperson perceived as benefits and features that the client wanted.

Also - The concept of "nice guy" likely only has a tangential connection to ethics / and the inverse .

karma ? - I am not sure.
[ some light candles and some buy indulgences] - who am I to say which is right and which is wrong
when it comes to eternity.

 

[CO skier]

I don't think @ronparise sold that Presidential Reserve owner his contract. Wyndham's nice guy salesperson did ,
and likely focused on what that salesperson perceived as the benifits and features that the client wanted.

Also - The concept of "nice guy" likely only has a tangential connection to ethics / and the inverse .

In all the posts about salespeople, no ever claimed a saleperson was rubbing peoples' noses in anything.

You did not address the second question.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

duplicate

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

2nd question

karma ? - I am not sure.
[ some light candles and some buy indulgences] - who am I to say which is right and which is wrong
when it comes to eternity.

 

[tschwa2]

Its been a while. but didnt Wyndham figure out how to deal with the "cancel/rebook for a discount" thing. And if thats the case. the only discounts available would be 60 days ahead of check in.
Has anyone really been able to make any money renting the time that no owners want to use?

My understanding is you won't be able to use your unlimited transactions, unlimited HK and possibly even the guest certs that you earn as gold/platinum if you are using them on a reservation that isn't 100% VIP eligible points. So Wyndham will be collecting more fees even on undiscounted reservation using those non vip points. And the discounts aren't always on reservations no one wants. They are also on reservations that were taken but then cancelled for a variety of reasons not always because no one wants to use.

 

[CO skier]

Only time will tell -
I am not questioning your theory / I would like to read your Aug. 2022 thread on you it worked out.

Do you really think there would be any more truth in his posts a year from now than what he is posting now? When there is no verifying posts, anything goes.

 

[CO skier]

karma ? - I am not sure.
[ some light candles and some buy indulgences] - who am I to say which is right and which is wrong
when it comes to eternity.

Let me be more specific, "Which Wyndham karma proved true in the end?"

I know you are not a Wyndham owner and do not understand the subtleties, but the answer should be obvious even to someone like you.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Do you really think there would be any more truth in his posts a year from now than what he is posting now? When there is no verifying posts, anything goes.

I would assume that the TUG last minute rental forum in spring 2022 will give all of some information as to whether below MF rentals are available
with or without posts from any specific member.

 

[CO skier]

I would assume that the TUG last minute rental forum in spring 2022 will give all of some information as to whether below MF rentals are available
with or without posts from any specific member.

Definitely, and Ebay, too!

Take Ebay screenshots of rentals now for comparison.

Do not let anyone invent fake information about the past a year from now.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Let me be more specific, "Which Wyndham karma proved true in the end?"

I know you are not a Wyndham owner and do not understand the subtleties, but it should be obvious even to someone like you.

The Golden Rule
They who own the gold - make the rules..

I have read most of the major TUG Wyndham forum threads in the last 6+ years.

I agree that greater potential access to .prime reservations by owners for personal use is a good idea.
BUT - it does not increase the number of units or prime weeks and getting rid of mega renters does not reduce the number of points in circulation.

 

[CO skier]

BUT - it does not increase the number of units or prime weeks and getting rid of mega renters does not reduce the number of points in circulation.

This just confirms your complete lack of knowledge of how the August changes to the VIP program will put more owners and fewer renters on vacation in Club Wyndham.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

....... the August changes to the VIP program will put more owners and fewer renters on vacation in Club Wyndham.

I agree 100 %

BUT - it could also result in more unhappy NEW owners.
let's hypothetically assume the majority of the points that will be dumped by "mega renters" filter back to Wyndham AND all are resold
[ie . not put permanently into Extra Holidays] . The result will be more owners chasing the same number of units in prime weeks.

Then the merry go round of sales telling folks- if they buy more points with the right ARP they can get the reservation they want etc.

For Wyndham it will make an even better perpetual motion $ machine.
Like ever TS company - Wyndham sells vacation dreams.

 

[CO skier]

I agree 100 %

BUT - it could also result in more unhappy NEW owners.
let's hypothetically assume the majority of the points that will be dumped by "mega renters" filter back to Wyndham AND all are resold
[ie . not put permanently into Extra Holidays] . The result will be more owners chasing the same number of units in prime weeks.

Then the merry go round of sales telling folks- if they buy more points with the right ARP they can get the reservation they want.

For Wyndham it will make an even better perpetual motion $ machine.
Like ever TS company - Wyndham sells vacation dreams.

You really should stop posting about what you do not know, because you just keep exposing your complete lack of knowledge about how Club Wyndham works.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I just purchased a 400k deeded low cost maintenance fee CWS at $375 all in. If I have to I can always give away after I use current use year points if the market permits renting for less. Keeping all options available and having a backup plan.

When you say give it away... it won't be to Wyndham, correct? I was thinking Certified Exit has a waiting period on taking back resales. I have not done this, nor do I plan to, but don't want people to have the wrong impression. I don't believe you can purchase something, essentially strip it of it's present use, and then give it to Wyndham. I was thinking they make you wait a year before they will take it, anyone know?