Wyndham eliminating mega-renters

[Sandi Bo]

A megarenter who moves from using resale points at a 50% discount within 60-days to booking earlier, longer reservations will use up the resale points twice as fast and leaving 100% of the reservations within 60-days for other owners to book using the full points costs.

I never hear anyone mention the discounts Wyndham seems to routinely offer. Those resale points may still enjoy discounts, some I have seen are pretty significant. Rarely do we hear about discounts non-VIP owners receive. Likely because Wyndham would rather not draw attention to that. How many reservations are truly booked at full points costs?

 

[Eric B]

You don't need to mansplain Liens to me.

They serve a purpose, but not all states allow a SUB to come after a homeowner for the failings of the GC... In fact it didn't used to be like that here. A certain political party (I will let you guess which one) in an effort to pander to their construction company buddies and poltical contributors, changed the rules about 15 years ago so that they could do this.

Prior to that, Florida followed the typical "intent" of a mechanics lien, which is to prevent a HOMEOWNER from stiffing a contractor... that's fine. But in the case I gave, completely innocent homeowners can lose their homes because of a non-performing GC didn't pay their subs or suppliers.

THAT is wrong, outrageous actually... re-read my original post

At the risk of being accused of further mansplaining, or more accurately lawsplaining, the Wikipedia article I linked does a good job of covering the history and purposes of mechanics’ liens. In particular, it notes that without them, “subcontractors providing either labor or materials may have no effective remedy if their general contractor is not sufficiently financially responsible, because their only contractual right is with that general contractor.”

I lawsplained earlier on this subject based on my personal experiences with subcontractors not getting paid in different States. I don’t believe it’s a political issue or unique to Florida as it was in a locale where the political spectrum tilted the other way. (I do tend to try to avoid posting about politics here as the TUG rules discourage that.)

My experience involved a general contractor that poorly managed his finances on a different job and used the funds I provided to cover his costs there, deferring payment to suppliers on my job. The net result was that I had a mechanics’ lien put on my property to cover a few hundred dollars in costs for cement, which I wound up paying in order to clear the lien - the general contractor went bankrupt within the year.

Like it or not, mechanics’ liens serve a purpose that has nothing to do with politics, though I have no doubt that there can be overheated discussions of them in politics. I’m sure no one really wants subcontractors to have no guarantee of any type that they would be paid - it would be much less “fair” than the idea of someone that spent a lot on VIP status with a timeshare company getting discounts on usage they bought resale following the systems and processes set up by that timeshare company. For the subcontractors, they would actually exist as people that directly lose out on the transactions rather than the timeshare company absorbing the costs of its poor decisionmaking in setting up and running a complex incentive system to encourage sales.

As for the homeowners that can be at risk due to a mechanics’ lien, they choose the general contractors and can supervise them as they see fit. If they choose not to use fund control systems to ensure the subcontractors are paid, they are taking on risks of nonpayment. My personal choice since I had problems decades ago in this area was to do my own fund control and manage the risk. YMMV.

 

[dgalati]

When you say give it away... it won't be to Wyndham, correct? I was thinking Certified Exit has a waiting period on taking back resales. I have not done this, nor do I plan to, but don't want people to have the wrong impression. I don't believe you can purchase something, essentially strip it of it's present use, and then give it to Wyndham. I was thinking they make you wait a year before they will take it, anyone know?

Depending on what happens to the rental market I may keep ownership to travel. Holding it for 18 months to get 3 years of use is also a option if I keep it for more then a year. Yes you have to own it for one year before giving back to Wyndham. I had them accept 2 deeds that I only owned for 4 months and when I pointed this out to them it killed the deal. I believe it would have transferred if I didn't bring it to their attention. I have also heard that they have taken a few TUG posters deeds back without them owning for a year. Its a moving target and as always you need to call and find out if your ownership qualifies.

 

[paxsarah]

How many reservations are truly booked at full points costs?

For me, it’s over 90%. I could probably count on one hand the number of reservations I’ve made in 10 years at discounted points.

Because I can’t count on those discounts. I don’t know where is going to be discounted and when. There was also a few years where they stopped offering those discounts entirely. It’s a completely different ownership mindset than VIP. VIP gets the most out of their ownership booking inside 60 days. I get the most out of my ownership booking at 10 months. I can’t count on getting the most out of my points by waiting, so I don’t. I have 3 months to use points deposit, which if I’m booking at 10 months is generally not a problem. By March I’ve booked all of my stays for the year and I deposit the rest.

 

[Eric B]

I never hear anyone mention the discounts Wyndham seems to routinely offer. Those resale points may still enjoy discounts, some I have seen are pretty significant. Rarely do we hear about discounts non-VIP owners receive. Likely because Wyndham would rather not draw attention to that. How many reservations are truly booked at full points costs?

I’ve seen a number of posts by @cbyrne1174 about the routine discounts in Florida resorts. She makes pretty good use of them. Right now there aren’t a lot available and none in the East and Southeast, though. That’s no doubt because of the large number of unused points and higher demand driving up prices - Econ 101. In a year or two we should start seeing the discounts in their normal patterns as they are fundamentally the only real tool Wyndham has to correct for resorts that were priced too high in points when they entered the system.

 

[dgalati]

I will answer the general question / and then let @dgalati answer the specific.

I have learned from a 30 something that the best answer with credit cards and their " sign up points "
Is to develop a churn and burn strategy - to maximize your leverage.

The answer on when to dump a card and pick up a new one is based variables that include what new card opportunities are available next year.

it appears to me that @dgalati as applied this process to timeshares / vacations / Wyndham points.

I do know a little on how to churn credit cards for the bonus money or airline miles. I have not bought a airline ticket in close to 10 years. I also know that bonus points can be used as a purchase easer or credit with no 1099. Bonus money is not taxable.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Definitely, and Ebay, too!

Take Ebay screenshots of rentals now for comparison.

Do not let anyone invent fake information about the past a year from now.

You can't compare August to April. Prime time to Value season, Apples to Oranges.

I know it wasn't you commenting on less rentals in LMR know but I'll comment on that while I'm here. I would venture to say LMR rentals (at least for Wyndhams) are always down during prime season versus value.

 

[dgalati]

I never hear anyone mention the discounts Wyndham seems to routinely offer. Those resale points may still enjoy discounts, some I have seen are pretty significant. Rarely do we hear about discounts non-VIP owners receive. Likely because Wyndham would rather not draw attention to that. How many reservations are truly booked at full points costs?

Personally I have never booked or rented outside of the discount window. For my travel needs it works great but may not be for everyone. Especially if you need that 3 bedroom during spring break in Florida.

 

[dgalati]

You can't compare August to April. Prime time to Value season, Apples to Oranges.

Wyndham sees it this way also with the points discounts during prime or value season.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

You really should stop posting about what you do not know, because you just keep exposing your complete lack of knowledge about how Club Wyndham works.

Then please educate me / or at least explain how this is not one possible outcome.

...BUT - it could also result in more unhappy NEW owners.
let's hypothetically assume the majority of the points that will be dumped by "mega renters" filter back to Wyndham AND all are resold
[ie . not put permanently into Extra Holidays] . The result will be more owners chasing the same number of units in prime weeks.

Then the merry go round of sales telling folks- if they buy more points with the right ARP they can get the reservation they want etc.

For Wyndham it will make an even better perpetual motion $ machine.
Like ever TS company - Wyndham sells vacation dreams.

 

[dgalati]

I’ve seen a number of posts by @cbyrne1174 about the routine discounts in Florida resorts. She makes pretty good use of them. Right now there aren’t a lot available and none in the East and Southeast, though. That’s no doubt because of the large number of unused points and higher demand driving up prices - Econ 101. In a year or two we should start seeing the discounts in their normal patterns as they are fundamentally the only real tool Wyndham has to correct for resorts that were priced too high in points when they entered the system.

@cbyrne1174 has mastered using the system for her travel needs. In the most cost effective way she travels and enjoys the discounts without a sunk cost of buying up to VIP. The only perk she can not receive unless she rents from a VIP is the free room upgrade. But then again I wouldn't be surprised if she received a free room upgrade at check-in a few times.

 

[Roger830]

I’ve seen a number of posts by @cbyrne1174 about the routine discounts in Florida resorts.

We spend 6-7 weeks in Florida in the Jan-Feb timeframe.

The only discount that I consistently noticed is Panama City starting from week 7 and moving forward, perhaps because those weeks are labeled prime season and with the points to book so high, there isn't much demand. I've been tempted to stop there, but with temperature much lower than Daytona or Orlando, and after being in mild weather in south Florida, I don't want to drive 500 miles out of my way to be cold. Myrtle Beach offers even better value at that time.

 

[dgalati]

Wyndham Grand desert had discounts available for June.

 

[HitchHiker71]

For me, it’s over 90%. I could probably count on one hand the number of reservations I’ve made in 10 years at discounted points.

Because I can’t count on those discounts. I don’t know where is going to be discounted and when. There was also a few years where they stopped offering those discounts entirely. It’s a completely different ownership mindset than VIP. VIP gets the most out of their ownership booking inside 60 days. I get the most out of my ownership booking at 10 months. I can’t count on getting the most out of my points by waiting, so I don’t. I have 3 months to use points deposit, which if I’m booking at 10 months is generally not a problem. By March I’ve booked all of my stays for the year and I deposit the rest.

We are VIPG and for us it's about 50/50. For our larger family vacations - I typically book farther out and rarely get any discounts since even the Wyndham discounts usually aren't valid beyond 90 days out. We pay 100% points value for these reservations - because we need at least a three bedroom and sometimes even a four bedroom unit. For example, we've got a four bedroom booked for the week of Christmas at GG - it's really two two bedroom lockouts - but we need all four bedrooms for our holiday plans. For our smaller long weekend trips - I always try to book in the 60 day VIP discount window - or using the Wyndham discounts - especially considering weekends are the most expensive on points.

 

[troy12n]

I'm VIPG right now, i've bought a few times and because I had different contracts with bonus points attached to them I was VIPP for a couple years, dropped to VIPG this year and will drop to Grandfathered Silver in October again because all those bonus contracts are expiring. Unless I PIC I will probably stay Silver because I have unlimited HK. I have historically done most of my "big" reservations outside the Express window. The reason in the past was kids, and planning around their school schedules, spring breaks, christmas, etc. We always go somewhere big for Spring Break, so thats 9-10 days in March, every other year we go to Maryland (NH or OTA) to visit my wife's family for Christmas. Occasional Thanksgiving somewhere, and a big summer vacation. Because we need to have (prefer) 2 BR or large units, and that's not always possible inside 60 days, I always book pretty far in advance. However, whenever possible, I would try to re-book inside of 60 days to get the discount if the room size we need happened to be available. When I was VIPP, that 50% discount was nice. We have also made a bunch of bookings under 60 days, whenever we have some time off and can get away. I just booked week in Pompano in August last week, had that kind of botched long weekend in Clearwater too a couple weeks ago. There's often something for us to find inside of 60 days.

I have over 1 million points in 2022 UY which starts in October and I have already over half of that booked including a week at OTA, 9 days at La Belle Maison, a few days at Sapphire Valley, all of those 2BR or 2BR Deluxe and also looking to book Midtown 45 in April because of the promotion currently running. There's no way I could book a 2 BR for Christmas at OTA or anything contiguous at La Belle in a 2 BR at the 60 day mark...

 

[dgalati]

So is your long term strategy to hold this or use next year and dump it?

The only thing for sure is I will use all points for my personal travel. I have never rented any of the points I owned.

 

[dgalati]

A megarenter who moves from using resale points at a 50% discount within 60-days to booking earlier, longer reservations will use up the resale points twice as fast and leaving 100% of the reservations within 60-days for other owners to book using the full points costs.

Finally some one understands that availability will be created by the elimination of this loophole. Resale points will now use up to double the number of points if booked in the discount window.

 

[dgalati]

I never hear anyone mention the discounts Wyndham seems to routinely offer. Those resale points may still enjoy discounts, some I have seen are pretty significant. Rarely do we hear about discounts non-VIP owners receive. Likely because Wyndham would rather not draw attention to that. How many reservations are truly booked at full points costs?

Here is the link from Wyndham login page. I think this discount to owners will be a little more common now and it also helps non VIP owners see the savings they could have if they purchase up to VIP. I personally would rather see a owner benefit from the discounted reservation over a VIP owner that rents the reservation.

Owner Travel Deals

Check out the latest timeshare owner discounts, specials & offers on Club Wyndham resorts and save on your next family vacation! Enjoy your ownership and save!

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

 

[Sandi Bo]

Here is the link from Wyndham login page. I think this discount to owners will be a little more common now and it also helps non VIP owners see the savings they could have if they purchase up to VIP. I personally would rather see a owner benefit from the discounted reservation over a VIP owner that rents the reservation.

Owner Travel Deals

Check out the latest timeshare owner discounts, specials & offers on Club Wyndham resorts and save on your next family vacation! Enjoy your ownership and save!

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

How does this show a non VIP owner the savings they could have if they purchase up to VIP, I don't see any correlation.

As a VIPF, I see it as something being given to non-VIPs that VIPs paid good money for. If Wyndham didn't offer these discounts, there would be more availability to VIP owners in the discount window (something advertised to us and that VIPs paid for).

I personally would rather see a VIP owner benefit by having rooms available at a discount to VIPs, as promised.

 

[Ty1on]

How does this show a non VIP owner the savings they could have if they purchase up to VIP, I don't see any correlation.

As a VIPF, I see it as something being given to non-VIPs that VIPs paid good money for. If Wyndham didn't offer these discounts, there would be more availability to VIP owners in the discount window (something advertised to us and that VIPs paid for).

I personally would rather see a VIP owner benefit by having rooms available at a discount to VIPs, as promised.

These deals appear to be in the 30 day window. If they let these nights that no one, not even a VIP at 50% from 60 to 30 days out, wants, they die on the vine and non VIPs are using their points for something you might actually have wanted. You had the first shot at anything that hits Deals.

 

[chapjim]

These deals appear to be in the 30 day window. If they let these nights that no one, not even a VIP at 50% from 60 to 30 days out, wants, they die on the vine and non VIPs are using their points for something you might actually have wanted. You had the first shot at anything that hits Deals.

The thing is, we don't know where the discounted nights/weeks came from. They might have shown up in a search but they could be nights/weeks that fell out of the bottom of Extra Holidays. The point is you can't say "not even a VIP , , , wants." VIPs might never have seen them.

I noticed on at least one of the specials that it only applied to studios. That's pretty easy to understand since the lowest class of unit is what will be left after everyone has done their upgrades.

 

[paxsarah]

As a VIPF, I see it as something being given to non-VIPs that VIPs paid good money for.

As a VIP, did you pay good money for deals that could range anywhere from 20-50%, at only a small minority of resorts, mostly in off seasons, sometimes only on weeknights or for certain unit sizes/types, and become available at unpredictable intervals? If yes, then yes, we totally stealing your deals from you.

But the way I see it, this is like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of what VIPs get. This is like the satirical LaCroix flavor I once saw called "hint of hint of lime." Non-VIP owner discounts are nothing like knowing any unit you are able to book inside 60 days at any resort will carry your level's discount and potentially an instant upgrade.

 

[paxsarah]

The thing is, we don't know where the discounted nights/weeks came from.

They are regular units in regular inventory. Are you suggesting there's some special discounted inventory from another source that feeds these non-VIP discounts? I'm almost 100% sure that's not the case.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The non-VIP discount programs are typically offered up when occupancy falls below a certain threshold during certain seasons. Occupancy rates are tracked very closely by Wyndham - the historical occupany data and rolling averages are not hard to find if you know where to look. I've found these datasets many times in the past when the need arose.

 

[dgalati]

They are regular units in regular inventory. Are you suggesting there's some special discounted inventory from another source that feeds these non-VIP discounts? I'm almost 100% sure that's not the case.

Its just another VIP complaining about Wyndham leveling the playing field. I get VIP owners paid to achieve status but the free ride is over on resale points. No one can say it was a benefit listed in the members directory. Similar to cancel and rebook that was sold as a benefit that never was.