Where Most of You Started

[Addds]

Hi All!

This is my first time posting as I just registered. I've lurked for over a year and am to the point where some advice would be great.

My wife and I are in our early thirties and are considering how we want to vacation for the next several decades. We have sat through 2 Marriott presentations and most recently a more traditional timeshare presentation in Breckenridge. We haven't purchased yet as I try to be methodical about big decisions. So here it goes.

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?

No where particularly. We live in Colorado Springs and love to ski. Breckenridge is the closest major "timeshare town", but we also love skiing in Utah, BC and want to be able to do so throughout the West.

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?

Indifferent

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?

Western US ski towns
Central America
Caribbean

4) How many people do you usually travel with?


2 adults, 4 kids (ages 2-9)
We are new to vacationing as our own family unit as most of our "vacation" time has been spent traveling to visit family. We are intentionally moving away from this.

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?

Generally locked to the school schedule

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?

Yes

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?

Yes but I would prefer to have the flexibility of 2-3 night stays multiple times throughout the year.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?

With kids, 2-3.
With wife, 5.

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?

$50,000-60,000

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?

$2,000-4,000

11) Are you a detail oriented planner?

Yes

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?

I understand enough to be very concerned.

 

[DaveNV]

Welcome to the other side of Tug. Lurking is fine, but posting is better.

Look into Points-based systems. You'll have greater flexibility on where and when you can stay, short-term stays are easier, and you have great control over the process. Something like Worldmark would probably be a good fit for you. Obviously, buy resale if possible, to save a lot. Take your time - it's much easier to get into a timeshare than to get out of one. I'd suggest renting in areas you want to visit, to get a firsthand feel for what appeals to you, and to experience the kind of resorts you can stay in after you buy in.

Good luck - it sounds like you're a prime candidate who does his homework.

Dave

 

[DeniseM]

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?

Indifferent

You should think about this a little more - having a home resort that you like to return to frequently can be a valuable option - almost like your family vacation home. Also - in general, trading is done in 7 night increments, so exchanging may not be for you at all.

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?

Yes but I would prefer to have the flexibility of 2-3 night stays multiple times throughout the year.

In this case you absolutely want a points based system like Worldmark or Wyndham. The weeks based systems are not set up to work well with short stays - they are designed to work best for 7 night stays.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?

With kids, 2-3.
With wife, 5.

Only the hotel affiliated timeshares are 4/5 Star - Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, and Westin in particular, so you may want to stick with regular hotels for travel with your wife, instead of timesharing.

 

[Addds]

Where is teh best

You should think about this a little more - having a home resort that you like to return to frequently can be a valuable option - almost like your family vacation home. Also - in general, trading is done in 7 night increments, so exchanging may not be for you at all.

So we were in Breckenridge considering if this could be our close family vacation home. And we could totally see that. So I say indifferent because we aren't locked in anywhere currently. But I see there are several points based systems that have properties there, so that could work.

In addition, we sat through the timeshare presentation for the new Grand Colorado (a stunning resort, btw) by BGV (Breck Grand Vacations) which owns a few other properties in the town as well. They seem to have a decent internal points system that works for shorter stays (long weekends). The Grand Colorado is an Elite II property. The salesperson made that sound like you could easily trade that on II for just about anything. I doubt this, but I don't know the ins and outs of II given I've never used it.

The other huge benefit of these specific properties is the day use benefits that owners receive that are not available if you buy on the secondary market. This would allow us to make easy day and weekend trips and enjoy the amenities offered.



In this case you absolutely want a points based system like Worldmark or Wyndham. The weeks based systems are not set up to work well with short stays - they are designed to work best for 7 night stays.

We have attended Marriott presentations because my siblings and parents own Marriott, both deeded and points. Vacationing with them would seemingly be easier with Marriott. However, I don't know how accurate that perception is. I'm sure there is a great resource comparing all those systems somewhere on this site.



Only the hotel affiliated timeshares are 4/5 Star - Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, and Westin in particular, so you may want to stick with regular hotels for travel with your wife, instead of timesharing.

[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Addds]

Yikes! sorry for the horrible formatting above.

 

[Addds]

Welcome to the other side of Tug. Lurking is fine, but posting is better.

Look into Points-based systems. You'll have greater flexibility on where and when you can stay, short-term stays are easier, and you have great control over the process. Something like Worldmark would probably be a good fit for you. Obviously, buy resale if possible, to save a lot. Take your time - it's much easier to get into a timeshare than to get out of one. I'd suggest renting in areas you want to visit, to get a firsthand feel for what appeals to you, and to experience the kind of resorts you can stay in after you buy in.

Good luck - it sounds like you're a prime candidate who does his homework.

Dave

Thanks! Do you know off-hand where to compare and contrast the advantages/disadvantes of buying on the secondary market for all the point-bases systems?

P.S. Enjoy your 2018 plans! If you've never been and you enjoy the desert, it is perhaps the most beautiful place on the planet.

 

[DeniseM]

Take everything you hear at sales presentations with a grain of salt - they will tell you whatever you want to hear to make the sale. Unless you own a true fixed week - making timeshare reservations is competitive, and the most popular ski season weeks go fast. It's important to fully understand the reservation procedure before you buy.

ALL sales people will tell you that you will lose important benefits if you don't buy from them - of course they don't want you to buy resale - no commission for them! So again, be sure you understand your resale options. It's almost never a good deal to buy from the developer, and an even worse deal if you have to finance it.

TUG has separate forums for most of the major timeshare companies - that a good place to start. For short stays, you really want points, so that's the Wyndham/Worldmark forum.

 

[Addds]

Take everything you hear at sales presentations with a grain of salt - they will tell you whatever you want to hear to make the sale. Unless you own a true fixed week - making timeshare reservations is competitive, and the most popular ski season weeks go fast. It's important to fully understand the reservation procedure before you buy.

ALL sales people will tell you that you will lose important benefits if you don't buy from them - of course they don't want you to buy resale - no commission for them! So again, be sure you understand your resale options. It's almost never a good deal to buy from the developer, and an even worse deal if you have to finance it.

TUG has separate forums for most of the major timeshare companies - that a good place to start. For short stays, you really want points, so that's the Wyndham/Worldmark forum.

I typically bring a salt shaker with me for any sales scenario, hence my lack of vacation ownership.

I've read enough to know that buying from the developer is a losing proposition at best.

I certainly don't plan to finance a timeshare. Thanks for the reaffirmation.

I know they don't get any benefit from resale. And I think the idea of a resale is my biggest reason for not buying any timeshare up to this point. It seems the floor on any timeshare resale system is always creeping lower. And additionally, I don't see any timeshare companies that facilitate reselling. Most every major asset we humans purchase has a strong resale market supported (or at least not actively undermined) by the primary industry itself.

 

[DaveNV]

Thanks! Do you know off-hand where to compare and contrast the advantages/disadvantes of buying on the secondary market for all the point-bases systems?

P.S. Enjoy your 2018 plans! If you've never been and you enjoy the desert, it is perhaps the most beautiful place on the planet.

I don't know of a one-stop pros and cons comparison. As you explore Tug in more detail, look for threads about points-based timeshares. I think there's even a forum with that title, or similar. Unless you want to limit yourself by buying into a hotel-based system, (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, and such), then look at the larger independents, like Worldmark, Wyndham, and even RCI points. Smaller groups like VRI won't get you where you want to go (and I think they're weeks-based, now that I think about it.)

I'd recommend starting with one group, like Worldmark, and learning all about them before trying to understand another group. The reason I keep saying Worldmark is they're more western-USA based. From your location I think you'd have an easier time booking what you want, as long as you remember DeniseM's advice - the prime stuff books out quickly. There are rules and tricks to maximizing any system to your best advantage.

Yes, I am very familiar with the desert southwest. Southern Utah is my favorite place to vacation. Been there plenty, and always look forward to going back.

Dave

 

[Videoguy75]

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
No where particularly.

2) Do you want to visit your home resort ...
Indifferent

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Western US ski towns
Central America
Caribbean

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Yes but I would prefer to have the flexibility of 2-3 night stays multiple times throughout the year.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
With wife, 5.

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
$50,000-60,000

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
$2,000-4,000

What a wonderful problem you have - deciding how to facilitate years and years of wonderful family vacations. I bought heavily into Disney and Marriott over 20 years ago and the kids and grand-kids love vacationing together as much today as we did then. But we bought exactly what was right for us and the quality and flexibility of the 2 systems have accommodated us well through the years. We are typically taking all 25 of us each year to one location or the other and currently we are beginning to plan 2021 - that is timesharing with the next generation.

Perhaps oddly, we have never traded outside the Disney or Marriott systems. They have the flexibility and quality that precisely meet our desires and needs. If you were a Disney/Hawaii family, I could offer great advice. I can also tell you we have had great success using our Marriott units for the Caribbean.

For Ski Towns and Central America, I am not of any specific help and most tuggers are likely not either; general-yes, specific-no. I would search out the tuggers who ski and go way south to get more detailed info on your options. Locations are so diverse that you really want help from someone doing similar things or you could be very disappointed. I enjoy lurking in a broad way on TUGG and, for example, know very clearly that if Mexico is your thing, there is a huge diversity of opinion. You need to be consulting with those most like you in situation and preferences. There are enough members here, you can find forums and people that can be precisely useful to you, not just generally useful. Good luck!
Paul

PS Now if Marriott is your thing, I would hold out for a "direct bundle," which they say is only for current owners - not - .....

 

[GT75]

I agree with what others have said, what a wonderful problem you have - trying to decide how to facilitate years and years of wonderful family vacations.

We are heavily "invested" into the Hilton system, so that is all I am familiar with. You will need to look to someone else for information as to how their TS system works.

With that being said, we do own ski weeks both at Valdoro Mountain Lodge (Breckenridge, CO) and Sunrise Lodge (Park City, Ut). We also own several others, non-ski locations. Since the ski season is so short, I would recommend owning there at that location for the unit size and season which you need (growing family, 2-3 bedroom). Your home week, can be booked at the 12-9 month window in the Hilton system.

Since you live close to Breckenridge, this will allow you to pickup some shorter last minute availability. For example, I see 2-bedroom available for February 5-11 right now. There is also some shorter stays.

Those are the only ski locations in the Hilton system. They also don't have any locations in the Caribbean. We are able to use the Hilton system to book into Mexico via Fiesta Americana. We have personally done this several times now going to Los Cabos (which I highly recommend).

You are welcome to PM me for more information if you would like.

 

[Addds]

Perhaps oddly, we have never traded outside the Disney or Marriott systems. They have the flexibility and quality that precisely meet our desires and needs. If you were a Disney/Hawaii family, I could offer great advice. I can also tell you we have had great success using our Marriott units for the Caribbean.

My only real experience vacationing with my extended family has been facilitated by my parents, exclusively in the Marriott system. We have really enjoyed that. What have you found you can't do within that system?


PS Now if Marriott is your thing, I would hold out for a "direct bundle," which they say is only for current owners - not - .....[/QUOTE]

I have read quite a bit about Marriott generally, but have not heard of this "direct bundle." Do you have any info or any know where info can be found on that?

 

[Addds]

Sorry for my inability to format my responses correctly...

I consider myself reasonably tech-savvy. Obviously I am not.

 

[GetawaysRus]

I read your list of 12 points. It's good that your eyes are open. I'm a Marriott owner, and I am not displeased with my ownership, but without throwing cold water onto your fire, it is important that you understand:

(1) Your fees will rise with time.

When we first bought in 2004, our yearly maintenance fee was somewhere in the 700s. This fee goes up steadily from year to year. It hasn't yet doubled, but for 2017 we are a bit above $1300. I think the rise in the MF has been greater than the rate of inflation.

We trade through Interval International. Trading fees also have slowly risen. And now Interval has introduced upgrade fees if you are exchanging into a larger unit.

I'm not saying that a timeshare purchase is a bad idea. With several young children, I can see the attraction, and it may offer you major advantages. But this brings me to:

(2) You've got school-age kids. This will likely mean that you will be traveling when the kids are out of school. And this means more competition, especially when you try to exchange your unit for a different resort. (I can't speak to how difficult that might be. My wife and I are empty-nesters, so we usually travel in the spring and fall seasons when kids are in school.)

And finally:

(3) Will your travel desires change as you get older? I fully understand your point #8. I also try to treat my wife like a queen, and she does enjoy nice accommodations. As we have gotten older, we do take more international vacations. Timeshares have been less useful for us in international locales. But we still do take at least one domestic US trip each year, so we use our timeshare weeks then. And we often do combine a timeshare stay in the USA with an international vacation. (For example, we are going to the Galapagos in May. It is a straight shot from Ecuador to Florida, so I tacked on a 1 week timeshare stay in Florida to follow our international trip. That will be a nice, relaxing week that we'll enjoy.) So for us, even though our travel desires have changed somewhat, we are still making use of the timeshare and enjoying it.

Good luck in making the best decision for you and your family.

 

[Addds]

Thanks GetawaysRus.

1) I do understand that fees will rise. I feel that rising MF and the low resale value are the cost of investing into vacationing the way you want to. My wife feels if we don't do some sort of TS, that I won't commit to quality vacations with our family on a regular basis. And she's right.

2) Even though we are tied to a school schedule, the number of teacher training and planning days that my kids aren't in school is insane. This makes for a lot of 4 and 5 day weekends throughout the school year. Plus, I'm not the typical helicopter parent that frets when I get chastised by the school when my kid is gone. That's one of the best parts of my childhood memories and vacations with my family...missing school. I understand that may change in 5 years in my oldest is in high school. But I know my attitude toward the school schedule won't change.

3) I can't imagine anyone in my shoes saying that they know their attitudes won't change. I think we will always enjoy mountain getaways in summer or winter. We will always want to periodically intersperse that with a beach vacation. I don't see us trying to force international travel into our TS paradigm. I generally despise tours and groups and prefer to do my own thing. So the international TS possibilities are fairly limited to some of the main group and their point systems, or getting lucky or specific on trade.

This post offers a little more into me as a person. Are there any red flags I'm missing as to why a TS would be good/not good?

 

[silentg]

Your indifferent answer, made me think of a home resort for you. Some resorts allow day use of the facilities. Look into a timeshare that is within reasonable distance so you can visit for a day or weekend.
Silentg

 

[DeniseM]

Only that in general, it is harder to book short stays, because most people are competing for the same high-demand holiday weekends when kids are out of school.

Also - do some research about the feasibility of taking your kids out of school for vacations. In many states, schools do not get funded for missed days, so school districts have gotten a lot stricter. This is strictly a funding issue - although some parents seem to take it personally.

Anyway, my point is that your kids may be penalized if you take them out of school for a vacation, so it's important to know what your school district's policies are. For instance: Can they go on short-term independent study and make up the days with full credit, or will the absences be un-excused and they will not be able to make up the work/lost time?

This is a question for administration - not the teacher.

 

[bizaro86]

Based on what you've indicated, I think Worldmark is probably the best fit, at least for ski travel/travel with kids. They are at the 3 star level, but have locations across the West, including Whistler, Park City and Steamboat Springs.

For travel with your wife, I see a few options, but they mainly hinge on whether you plan to do that travel in weeklong increments, and how much you plan on doing it. If week long, then Hyatt or Marriott weeks may be appropriate, maybe on an every other year basis to keep variety up.

If you'd be looking for shorter trips, I would suggest using hotels, or maybe exploring a destination club. There are a variety of options at higher prices than TS ownership, but your budget would be OK.

You could also check out the Four Seasons residence club. You buy a fractional at a home resort, and can trade among them. I toured FS Punta Mita when we were there, and it as amazing.

 

[Ty1on]

Based on what you've indicated, I think Worldmark is probably the best fit, at least for ski travel/travel with kids. They are at the 3 star level, but have locations across the West, including Whistler, Park City and Steamboat Springs.

For travel with your wife, I see a few options, but they mainly hinge on whether you plan to do that travel in weeklong increments, and how much you plan on doing it. If week long, then Hyatt or Marriott weeks may be appropriate, maybe on an every other year basis to keep variety up.

If you'd be looking for shorter trips, I would suggest using hotels, or maybe exploring a destination club. There are a variety of options at higher prices than TS ownership, but your budget would be OK.

You could also check out the Four Seasons residence club. You buy a fractional at a home resort, and can trade among them. I toured FS Punta Mita when we were there, and it as amazing.

I think at OPs budget, there is most certainly a pathway to family vacation via Worldmark or Wyndham PLUS a Marriott or Vistana Stupidname Experiences for some higher end getaways with wife or family.

Four Seasons would take a huge (60% to 100%) chunk out of OPs MF budget, though.

 

[Jan M.]

Look on TUG or eBay for a decent size Wyndham point deed and make sure it is at one of the resorts with lower maintenance fees. There is a thread on TUG showing the 2017 maintenance fees for most of the Wyndham resorts. $4000 in maintenance fees would be about 725,000 points at the lower-mid range maintenance fee resorts and that is a nice block of points. If you buy a deed of under 238,000 points you will pay a littler higher maintenance fee rate than if you buy a larger point deed. I'm not sure but thought you paid a program fee for every contract so you are much better off buying the biggest point contract you can afford rather than several smaller ones. Take a look at the point charts for the resorts you would be most likely to go to and see how many points you would need to do what you would like to be able to do. I'm a Wyndham VIP platinum/presidential reserve owner so I get free transactions and housekeeping fees. I'm not sure how that works for contracts bought on the resale market. That may be another expense to owning and using the Wyndham points to consider. Hopefully someone else can add this information.

Worldmark is probably also a good choice too from what I've read here on TUG. Especially if you live in the western part of the country where they have more resorts.

I bought on eBay a points week at Grandview Las Vegas that gets me 98,000 annual RCI points. You can find these points weeks fairly often. Do not buy a fixed week as they are very expensive to convert to points. You shouldn't have to pay more than $1300 or even less if you are lucky and that would include the closing costs or be the final cost after the closing costs are added. Some listings include the closing costs and some don't so that is something important to take into account when you are looking at the different listings. Once in a while you will see contracts offered that have 2 use years points available and they go for a little more but it can be worth paying more for if the higher price is still much less than the maintenance fees would be on a year's points. As a first time RCI owner you will have to pay $224 which is never paid by the seller or included in the price from what I've seen. Once you are an owner for any future purchases you would only pay $100.

My annual maintenance fees for that week/points are $765. I also have to pay a yearly fee to RCI to keep my week in their points program otherwise I could only go to my week at my resort. The current price is $107 if you pay for 3 years at once. Then there is another $230 exchange fee for each week you book with your points. Points are good for two years and can be extended for an additional third year. The current fee to save/extend you points is $75 for under 30,000 points and $115 for over 30,000 points. You can borrow points from your next use year if you run short or rent points for .03 each.

Like the Wyndham point system I can use my points to go to any of the resorts and RCI has a huge number of resorts in their exchange system. We are able to book and go in that 3-4 weeks before check in so I get amazing reduced point weeks and have stayed at a number of lovely resorts. And I even get holiday weeks like President't Day, Memorial Day, Fourth of July and Labor Day. I typically get 2 bedroom units and do see 3 bedroom units sometimes for those reduced weeks. However you would need to be able to be on the computer at certain times to be able to get those reduced point weeks. RCI now has a pretty decent search system to help you find the dates and resorts if you are looking for something specific. RCI is mostly full week stays checking in on Friday, Saturday or Sunday but you can do shorter than full week stays. You can get stays at the Wyndham, the HGV (Hilton Grand Vacation), Worldmark, DVC (Disney Vacation Club) resorts as they have units in RCI.

Purchasing the week/RCI points at Grandview Las Vegas like I bought will get you the most bang for your buck with the least amount of money invested. So that would be where I recommend you start. If other people present excellent fact based reasons for not doing it, listen to what they have to say.

As other people will or have told you, take a good hard look at what buying Wyndham, Worldmark or any other system will cost you in the initial investment and annual maintenance fees and how much vacation time you will get for that amount of money. Sometimes you can be further ahead to rent from other owners.

I commend you for being smart enough to let your kids miss a few days of school. We did the same with our son and never regretted it. When the kids have shortened school weeks due to holidays or teacher inservice days we found that the teachers aren't introducing new stuff or doing as much at those times so kids don't miss a whole lot or have as much make up work to do either. Other big advantages are that you can get reservations at the timeshares far more easily and get so much better deals on flights and rental cars when you aren't restricting your vacations to the big holiday weeks like Christmas or summer weeks.

 

[DeniseM]

Again - schools are much stricter now with attendance than they used to be, because of funding constraints. I once had a student in my class who was dropped from school, because of a vacation to Disneyland. The family lied about it and said it was a family emergency, but of course the student blabbed about it.

So all I am saying is that as a parent, you need to know what the actual rules are in your school district, to protect your child's rights. It really has nothing to do with what the teacher is covering - it has everything to do with the rules for absences.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Worldmark and Shell Vacation Resorts ... both chains are point system, Western US based, and smaller systems. However, both are now owned by Wyndham (and not part of the Wyndham points system).

I live in the Eastern USA ... own Wyndham points and Wyndham fixed weeks plus some Shell points (my siblings moved to the Western part of US).

Shell you can get for about FREE... pay closing costs.

Worldmark does cost real money ... but is the most 'free' of Wyndham management & fees.

Wyndham Vacation Resorts ... implies in their pretty picture book about Associated Western US locations ... (at Worldmark & Shell resorts) except... only points brought directly (Full Retail price) can be used to book at those resorts and very limited number of units.

 

[Jan M.]

Again - schools are much stricter now with attendance than they used to be, because of funding constraints. I once had a student in my class who was dropped from school, because of a vacation to Disneyland. The family lied about it and said it was a family emergency, but of course the student blabbed about it.

So all I am saying is that as a parent, you need to know what the actual rules are in your school district, to protect your child's rights. It really has nothing to do with what the teacher is covering - it has everything to do with the rules for absences.

Our son graduated in 2004 so it has been a while since we had to concern ourselves with the school calendar. There are a whole lot more kids going to private schools and charter schools too and a lot more rules and things to take into consideration than back our day perhaps?

Our school district did a 5 day weekend over Martin Luther King weekend as a holiday/mid semester break/time for teachers to do report cards. We would put in an advance request for an excused absence for the additional 2 days to have that whole week for a family vacation. It was a blessing to be able to take that week when he was in high school as every single year the band made a big trip over Thanksgiving or Christmas which screwed up our holidays. And yes, before you think I'm being overly dramatic, the kids were actually gone on Thanksgiving or Christmas Day. When our son was still in grade school I used to think friends with older kids were just being ridiculous when they would say that one particular week of the summer was the only time in an entire year that their family could go on vacation together. Boy was I naive! When our turn came it wasn't quite as bad for us as we only had one child.

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

Videoguy75 said: ↑
I have read quite a bit about Marriott generally, but have not heard of this "direct bundle." Do you have any info or any know where info can be found on that?

I just purchased one. Feel free to send me a private message.

 

[Magic1962]

I also have a RCI Points Grand View at Las Vegas, but my contract is 122000 points a year.... and my maintenance fees are in the 700.00+ annually..... now THAT is the best bang for your buck.... We just got back from Hawaii in Nov., 10 day trip.... we have a week booked this summer for my wife and I, our daughters and their families for the July 4th week at Hilton Head...... we could not have done this with out all the Knowledge from the People of TUG and my love of timesharing and the challenge of the hunt.... Dave....