Westin St. John [Master Thread]

[DavidnRobin]

Hey all -

Long time visitor of STJ, first time poster here. Apologies in advance for the long post.

Was hoping to get some feedback after wading through this thread (over the last several months).

My family and I (kids are almost 6 and 3) love St. John and endeavor to go every year. Going forward, we would likely be limited to going over Christmas Week and/or Presidents Week on account of school holidays.

We have stayed at various different Westin Villas over the years (2bdrm Hillside, studio hillside, 3 bdrm BV, etc.) both with other families as well as by ourselves, in addition to stays at villa rentals on the Cruz Bay side (still haven't stayed at Co. We've sat through two different Time Share presentations (one on our Honeymoon, one this past year) first for the freebies but also for the lay of the land. We are now considering taking the plunge.

I have a number of questions that I thought I could throw out to the masses and get some thoughts/feedback...so here we go:

1. Is Starwood currently subsidizing the maintenance at the Bay Vista Villas? If so, will they willingly admit that and give any info as to how long they intend to do so?

2. Is there any way to see the finances prior to purchasing?

3. Our goal is to spend the overwhelming majority of time in STJ so I am not especially concerned with the ability to transfer to a different resort (although I suppose its possible we may consider that occasionally). So, having the SO is not on the top of my priorities. That being said, the incentives offered by SVN are fairly attractive (250K SPs). Is there a reason I should be going re-sale beyond price? Having looked around a bit, I haven't seen many platinum plus weeks at competitive rates (although I might not be looking in the right places).

4. Being able to secure the week of my choice is probably my biggest concern. We are most interested in the 2 bdrm loft. However, I believe there are only 8 of those units. How many of those units does the Westin make available to Timeshare owners at any given week and will I be constantly shut out of them when I try to book during these two highest volume weeks? Is there some type of formula that governs the availability of these units? Obviously the resort would like to retain XMas/Prez Week to sell retail.

5. How does the Platinum Plus period work? Is Xmas week 2013 the same year as Pres Week 2014 or is everything strictly calendar year? In other words, if I am trying to plan my vacation for next year's school year, the Xmas week is a different year than the Prez Week, for reservation purposes, right?

6. Is the price from Starwood at all negotiable? They quoted us a range from approx $53K for a 2brm to $63K for a 3 bdrm with a 2 bdrm loft falling somewhere close to the 3 bdrm price. They made it a point of saying that they have "price integrity" - meaning they don't negotiate (Love euphemisms.).

I'm sure there are other things I am missing. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions that we need to consider I would love to hear them. If we do take the plunge directly from Starwood, we would wait until we are there again to take advantage of the incentives. So, we have a little time.

TIA.

Hi - I am not a WSJ-BV expert, so others will have to chime-in on the details. We own a 2Bd/3Ba TH villa in the Hillside phase (VG) - as we like the ability to park outside our villa, and the semi-private pool/BBQ/patio area just a few steps away. Plus, we rarely go to the main resort, and like being away from the action.

As you seem pretty familiar with the BV section and appear to be looking at the 2Bd BV Loft... I have not seen many of these (if any) on the resale market. Also, you are looking for specific weeks that are not only Plat+, but also event weeks which come at a premium of a cost that is already very high. There are not many places to look other than RedWeek and Real Estate brokers on StJ.

If you buy from SVO/WSJ-BV you will get StarOptions, the ability to convert the SOs to StarPoints (not a good value, but does have convinence {sp?}factor), and likely additional SPs as incentives. None of these make up for the high premium you will be paying for the Plat+ special weeks at BV (which is really high iirc).

Then there is always just renting the week/villa type you want - as it will take years to make up the difference (if you live that long...)

However, if this is what you want and can afford it - then your only recourse is to bite the bullet and buy from SVO/WSJ-VG as it will likely take some time to either find these villas resale at the times you want (which will not come with SOs or the ability to convert, or incentives), or for their prices to come down to make it worth it.

Also, WSJ-BV may be holding back selling all VOIs (TS weeks) for the BV phase until enough our sold from the original buildings. I have no idea where they are yet with the sale of BV, but there were empty buildings last time I checked (2011). Most likely - because of this - SVO is subsidizing WSJ-BV.

The future MFs for BV (once sold) is a major question/issue because it appears that once a resort is sold out the MFs appear to jump. This makes sense because SVO/WSJ-VG want to make the appearance that the MFs are low in order to sell. Once this is gone, then SVO moves on and has no incentive to keep MFs reduced (I have no concrete evidence about this other than history from other resorts).

I would PM jerseygirl about BV (not sure if she is reading TUG or this thread nowadays) - she knows a lot of what goes on at WSJ, and owns WSJ-BV. She may be able to get you the financials (which are part of the MF report) - but be aware that these reports may not reflect the future financials (and thus MFs and potential refurbish costs). Also, be aware of the property taxes which are always under attack for StJ. Somehow, BV is not hit as hard as VG, but that could always change.

WSJ-VG got out of control finance wise, and Owners paid dearly for the HOA not keeping up reserves (at the cost of very low MFs - relatively) - those times have changed, but at least we have 2 WSJ-VG Owners on the HOA who are paying attention and looking our for our interests (this is my opinion - and not shared necessarily by those who were happy with the status quo, and the refurbish and maintenance issues that started this thread by me many years ago).

good luck.

 

[GregT]

See photo - there are more than 4 villas in-between the 2Bds - more like 8 on bottom (studios) and 6 on top (1Bd)
Those cresent windows on sides (2 on each side) are the 2Bd THs

David -- that is fantastic -- thanks for including this -- that makes alot of sense now.

Thanks again!

Greg

 

[steve1000]

Hey all -

Long time visitor of STJ, first time poster here. Apologies in advance for the long post.

Was hoping to get some feedback after wading through this thread (over the last several months).

My family and I (kids are almost 6 and 3) love St. John and endeavor to go every year. Going forward, we would likely be limited to going over Christmas Week and/or Presidents Week on account of school holidays.

We have stayed at various different Westin Villas over the years (2bdrm Hillside, studio hillside, 3 bdrm BV, etc.) both with other families as well as by ourselves, in addition to stays at villa rentals on the Cruz Bay side (still haven't stayed at Co. We've sat through two different Time Share presentations (one on our Honeymoon, one this past year) first for the freebies but also for the lay of the land. We are now considering taking the plunge.

I have a number of questions that I thought I could throw out to the masses and get some thoughts/feedback...so here we go:

1. Is Starwood currently subsidizing the maintenance at the Bay Vista Villas? If so, will they willingly admit that and give any info as to how long they intend to do so?

2. Is there any way to see the finances prior to purchasing?

3. Our goal is to spend the overwhelming majority of time in STJ so I am not especially concerned with the ability to transfer to a different resort (although I suppose its possible we may consider that occasionally). So, having the SO is not on the top of my priorities. That being said, the incentives offered by SVN are fairly attractive (250K SPs). Is there a reason I should be going re-sale beyond price? Having looked around a bit, I haven't seen many platinum plus weeks at competitive rates (although I might not be looking in the right places).

4. Being able to secure the week of my choice is probably my biggest concern. We are most interested in the 2 bdrm loft. However, I believe there are only 8 of those units. How many of those units does the Westin make available to Timeshare owners at any given week and will I be constantly shut out of them when I try to book during these two highest volume weeks? Is there some type of formula that governs the availability of these units? Obviously the resort would like to retain XMas/Prez Week to sell retail.

5. How does the Platinum Plus period work? Is Xmas week 2013 the same year as Pres Week 2014 or is everything strictly calendar year? In other words, if I am trying to plan my vacation for next year's school year, the Xmas week is a different year than the Prez Week, for reservation purposes, right?

6. Is the price from Starwood at all negotiable? They quoted us a range from approx $53K for a 2brm to $63K for a 3 bdrm with a 2 bdrm loft falling somewhere close to the 3 bdrm price. They made it a point of saying that they have "price integrity" - meaning they don't negotiate (Love euphemisms.).

I'm sure there are other things I am missing. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions that we need to consider I would love to hear them. If we do take the plunge directly from Starwood, we would wait until we are there again to take advantage of the incentives. So, we have a little time.

TIA.

Hi Crasherino -

I own a BV 2BR loft annual floating platinum plus week. If you are limited to traveling on either Christmas or President's week I don't think a floating week would work for you. You would likely need to purchase a fixed week. I believe Starwood prices an annual fixed 2BR loft unit during Christmas or President's holiday week at around $99k - a substantial premium over the floating Platinum plus week.

The usage goes by the calendar year so a Christmas 2013 week would be 2013 usage and relate to your 2013 maintenance fees and President's week in 2014 would be 2014 usage relating to your 2014 maintenance.

I believe the maintenance fees are currently being subsidized by SW so that they are not an impediment to sales. Once the BV units are substantially sold - I expect they would likely become more comparable to the hillside units.

Buying a BV platinum plus week - especially a holiday week - resale is very tough to find and if you really wanted the 2 BR loft unit - I think it would be virtually impossible to find. You'd probably be looking for many years - just my guess. These units are very pricey and I don't believe the price is negotiable with SW. I was able to do an upgrade trading in an off-peak WMH unit I previously purchased from the developer plus a sizable cash payment. Best of luck!

 

[Crasherino]

Hi - I am not a WSJ-BV expert, so others will have to chime-in on the details. We own a 2Bd/3Ba TH villa in the Hillside phase (VG) - as we like the ability to park outside our villa, and the semi-private pool/BBQ/patio area just a few steps away. Plus, we rarely go to the main resort, and like being away from the action.

As you seem pretty familiar with the BV section and appear to be looking at the 2Bd BV Loft... I have not seen many of these (if any) on the resale market. Also, you are looking for specific weeks that are not only Plat+, but also event weeks which come at a premium of a cost that is already very high. There are not many places to look other than RedWeek and Real Estate brokers on StJ.

If you buy from SVO/WSJ-BV you will get StarOptions, the ability to convert the SOs to StarPoints (not a good value, but does have convinence {sp?}factor), and likely additional SPs as incentives. None of these make up for the high premium you will be paying for the Plat+ special weeks at BV (which is really high iirc).

Then there is always just renting the week/villa type you want - as it will take years to make up the difference (if you live that long...)

However, if this is what you want and can afford it - then your only recourse is to bite the bullet and buy from SVO/WSJ-VG as it will likely take some time to either find these villas resale at the times you want (which will not come with SOs or the ability to convert, or incentives), or for their prices to come down to make it worth it.

Also, WSJ-BV may be holding back selling all VOIs (TS weeks) for the BV phase until enough our sold from the original buildings. I have no idea where they are yet with the sale of BV, but there were empty buildings last time I checked (2011). Most likely - because of this - SVO is subsidizing WSJ-BV.

The future MFs for BV (once sold) is a major question/issue because it appears that once a resort is sold out the MFs appear to jump. This makes sense because SVO/WSJ-VG want to make the appearance that the MFs are low in order to sell. Once this is gone, then SVO moves on and has no incentive to keep MFs reduced (I have no concrete evidence about this other than history from other resorts).

I would PM jerseygirl about BV (not sure if she is reading TUG or this thread nowadays) - she knows a lot of what goes on at WSJ, and owns WSJ-BV. She may be able to get you the financials (which are part of the MF report) - but be aware that these reports may not reflect the future financials (and thus MFs and potential refurbish costs). Also, be aware of the property taxes which are always under attack for StJ. Somehow, BV is not hit as hard as VG, but that could always change.

WSJ-VG got out of control finance wise, and Owners paid dearly for the HOA not keeping up reserves (at the cost of very low MFs - relatively) - those times have changed, but at least we have 2 WSJ-VG Owners on the HOA who are paying attention and looking our for our interests (this is my opinion - and not shared necessarily by those who were happy with the status quo, and the refurbish and maintenance issues that started this thread by me many years ago).

good luck.

David (and emu), thanks for your post and thoughts. We go back and forth on whether we like the Hillside or the BV. Having kids, we do use the main facilities in the afternoon, but we are usually somewhere on the NOrth Shore in the morning so having the Jeep right outside is a major convenience indeed. And, as you point out, the bbq in bldgs 31-34 is a huge plus. We toured the bay vistas and one of the big negatives was the bbq situation. We were told that it was going to be upgraded, but who knows when that will happen.

One other question....how are weeks calculated specifically? For instance, week 1 starts when exactly? If its a Sat - Sat unit, does week 1 start on the first Sat of the year? And then, if the 1st is on a Sunday, a "week 1 - Sunday" unit starts almost a full week before the "Week 1 Sat" unit? Do I have that right?

Sorry for asking the basics - it can be a bit confusing.

 

[LisaRex]

We were told that it was going to be upgraded, but who knows when that will happen.

They posted a picture of the new BV grilling stations this past Monday on their Facebook page. They look really nice! And because they are built in, presumably no wandering grills!

https://www.facebook.com/#!/WestinStJohn?fref=ts

 

[DavidnRobin]

They posted a picture of the new BV grilling stations this past Monday on their Facebook page. They look really nice! And because they are built in, presumably no wandering grills!

https://www.facebook.com/#!/WestinStJohn?fref=ts

I also follow WSJ on FB and saw the new BBQs - you are right about them not 'wandering' off now (that still cracks me up, but unfortunately doesn't surprise me...). There were comments that there were no tables around the BV BBQs, but that is an easy fix (but perhaps intended) - and they will have lighting. Be careful to protect yourself from bugs when BBQing after dark - this seems where I get most of my bug bites from (not paying attention with a drink in one hand and spatula in the other).

It will be interesting to see the refurbished pool patios on the Hillside. Last time (June'12) I found myself helping people light the BBQs (dangerous, and helped to be wet and stand back)

 

[DavidnRobin]

One other question....how are weeks calculated specifically? For instance, week 1 starts when exactly? If its a Sat - Sat unit, does week 1 start on the first Sat of the year? And then, if the 1st is on a Sunday, a "week 1 - Sunday" unit starts almost a full week before the "Week 1 Sat" unit? Do I have that right?

Sorry for asking the basics - it can be a bit confusing.

btw, as far as BV goes - the 2Bd BV lofts are really nice - I prefer them to the 3Bd and 2Bd BV villas (IMO).

This subject has come up for Week 53 (when it occurs) - I know how it works for WKORV/N because weeks 51 (xmas) and 52 (nye) are sold as event weeks. For years when there is a week 53, then the event weeks become week 52 (xmas) and week 53 (nye).

You bring up a good point about week 1. I would imagine for years (most) with 52 weeks - then week 1 follows week 52, and for years with 53 weeks then week 1 follows week 52 (yes... obviously). I would therefore imagine that this would also include the check-in day accordingly - as you wrote. There is a TUG sticky that shows 'weeks' according to the calendar years based on check-in day. I actually asked Robin to marry me based on our WSJ week at the time (wk 24) so we would be there on that day every year.
We now plan to celebrate with a meal cooked by Ted's Supper Club.

BUT - I would follow-up with the specific Owners Manual for WSJ-BV - to make sure there isn't some caveats.

btw - your kids will get older... so plan for that.
Also, if it were me (which it is not) and I was traveling with a party of more than 4 people - I would buy a 3Bd pool villa (resale) - but remember that WSJ-VG are all fixed weeks with fixed check-in days.

As top pros/cons between BV and VG (this has been previously discussed) - it really depends on how you plan to vacation now and in the future.

Villa style: pro for BV (if important - I like the BV style)
Villa layout: edge to BV... (depending)
Main resort access: pro for BV (as mentioned - this is not important to us)
Parking/getting away from resort: pro for VG (if one gets a car of course) - this is probably #1 for us
Pool/Patio/BBQ area: pro for VG (#2)
Partying w/ neighbors: pro for VG (if you like that sort of thing - we have had some fun times around the pool area at night)
View: pro for VG hillside buildings
Construction: pro for VG likely (from what I observed looking at the BV villas, and the buildings were once a hotel and converted to condos)
Ted's Supper Club: pro for VG

anyone else?

 

[jarta]

Hi David! ... Most of these comments are in response to your comments in Post 1126. Been traveling. Couldn't respond earlier.

There is no evidence that Starwood is supporting the MFs at BV in excess of the amount Starwood pays for unsold and retained units. In other words, paying the pro rata share for owned units is not supporting the MFs at the resort. It's just fulfilling an obligation of an owner. Starwood is the owner of unsold and retained units.

Starwood had paid a yearly amount of money to the VG HOA until a few years ago. (Ran over $1M per year! Mainly because the VG owners were so threatening and cantankarous toward Starwood, it decided to end the extra payment.) That payment was in addition to Starwood paying MFs on unsold or reacquired VG weeks. The last financial I saw, showed that Starwood owned about 10% of the VG units (IIRR). Don't know how accurate that figure is now. From looking at financial reports at other SVO resorts, Starwood seems to keep around 10% of the weeks, mostly primo ones I guess, for use in SPG. At any time, it also has some inventory returned by foreclosures and deeds in lieu.

The experience of every HOA association (not just TS associations) is that the MFs tend to increase over time. That beginning of that increase usually overlaps with the developer selling out. However, most of the increase comes from the increase in maintenance which comes after things start breaking or wearing out after 5, or so, years. "New" doesn't need as much maintenance as "not new."

The exception to this truth comes if the developer has not initially funded the replacement reserve as well as it should be funded. Over time, the inadequate reserves must be increased to make up what ultimately must be spent as replacement capital improvements must be made. That's what happened at VG. Due to unexpected hurricane and storm damage (and, I assume, some underfunding of reserves to keep MFs low and VG owners happy), when it came time to repair and replace the interiors and exteriors at VG, there was no money. So, the MFs were increased radically for 3 years - and didn't go all the way back down.

I take issue with the statement that VG is better constructed than BV. VG was very poorly constructed (as was the rest of the resort) initially by the original developers (not Starwood). When the BV phase of timeshares was created from some hotel outbuildings, those outbuildings were completely rebuilt and much more soundly rebuilt as BV. The VG units have merely received facelifts as hurricanes, storms and age have taken their toll. They are better-constructed now than when new. But the economics of VG are such that it's mostly cosmetic. VG has never been rebuilt virtually from the floor up. IMO, over time, BV will hold up better than VG. Salty

 

[DavidnRobin]

Hi David! ... Most of these comments are in response to your comments in Post 1126. Been traveling. Couldn't respond earlier.

There is no evidence that Starwood is supporting the MFs at BV in excess of the amount Starwood pays for unsold and retained units. In other words, paying the pro rata share for owned units is not supporting the MFs at the resort. It's just fulfilling an obligation of an owner. Starwood is the owner of unsold and retained units.

Starwood had paid a yearly amount of money to the VG HOA until a few years ago. (Ran over $1M per year! Mainly because the VG owners were so threatening and cantankarous toward Starwood, it decided to end the extra payment.) That payment was in addition to Starwood paying MFs on unsold or reacquired VG weeks. The last financial I saw, showed that Starwood owned about 10% of the VG units (IIRR). Don't know how accurate that figure is now. From looking at financial reports at other SVO resorts, Starwood seems to keep around 10% of the weeks, mostly primo ones I guess, for use in SPG. At any time, it also has some inventory returned by foreclosures and deeds in lieu.

The experience of every HOA association (not just TS associations) is that the MFs tend to increase over time. That beginning of that increase usually overlaps with the developer selling out. However, most of the increase comes from the increase in maintenance which comes after things start breaking or wearing out after 5, or so, years. "New" doesn't need as much maintenance as "not new."

The exception to this truth comes if the developer has not initially funded the replacement reserve as well as it should be funded. Over time, the inadequate reserves must be increased to make up what ultimately must be spent as replacement capital improvements must be made. That's what happened at VG. Due to unexpected hurricane and storm damage (and, I assume, some underfunding of reserves to keep MFs low and VG owners happy), when it came time to repair and replace the interiors and exteriors at VG, there was no money. So, the MFs were increased radically for 3 years - and didn't go all the way back down.

I take issue with the statement that VG is better constructed than BV. VG was very poorly constructed (as was the rest of the resort) initially by the original developers (not Starwood). When the BV phase of timeshares was created from some hotel outbuildings, those outbuildings were completely rebuilt and much more soundly rebuilt as BV. The VG units have merely received facelifts as hurricanes, storms and age have taken their toll. They are better-constructed now than when new. But the economics of VG are such that it's mostly cosmetic. VG has never been rebuilt virtually from the floor up. IMO, over time, BV will hold up better than VG. Salty

In no particular order... (I suggest you reread what I wrote - because I did and do not follow/understand some of your comments)

You have zero proof that SVO removed the subsidy for WSJ-VG because of "cantankarous" owners - that is pure speculation - so please do not state as fact. I was merely mentioned that they did subsidize and it stopped (fact) - besides we have been down this road before - the subsidy wasn't that much relative to the overall MFs.

As to SVO subsidy of WSJ-BV... have you seen a financial statement for BV? (I have not - so I told the person who asked to contact jgirl - did you miss that?) Of course SVO is responsible for unsold villas - and I did not ever say I was sure they were being subsidized beyond their obligation to unsold inventory (it was asked and I answered appropriately). Again, I try to be careful how I word things - I merely mentioned that it has been done before (and stopped), and to check the balance sheet to make sure to the person that asked the questions. How do you interpret what I wrote otherwise (again...)?

I don't disagree that the financials for WSJ-VG was poor for many years and it finally caught up (I stated this...) - is this what you are saying? I am unclear of the value added for your point. This thread documents all of the dealings prior, during, and after the HOA changeover - including the refurbish and the "cantankarous" owners. The subsidy ended before the Owner lawsuit. Also, we were successful in getting SVO to allow a vote that got Phil and Bob aboard. No other SVO resort has accomplished this (and I will take partial credit and blame - as Phil reminds me).

Re: construction - I have seen both (and heard and looked) - and I disagree with you on this - the walls and foundations 'appear' (from my limited view) to be superior for the hillside buildings (e.g. the walls between villas are solid) - now that the siding and roofs have been redone (thankfully) for the VG phase - this also seems to be a wash. I hadn't realized you have been to both BV and VG phases (or were familiar with construction). I actually got to see inside the walls (and attic area) of VG, and the construction of BV buildings. I may be a lowly Scientist, but I have owned and worked on enough homes to be able to make an opinion that VG seems more solid. And it is a fact that BV is converted from a hotel room (meaning the infrastructure of the building was changed from a hotel design and not originally built that way).

Not sure why you "take issue" with what I wrote - you do not even own at WSJ (unless that changed?) and iirc - only visited once. Why do you feel the need to state it that way? - like you have a vested interest when you actually do not. I do have a vested interest and my own bias' (which I try and make clear) since we use our 2 weeks that we own every year (except last) starting in 2006 - and StJ is one of my favorite places to vacation (I should work for their tourist board... )

As always - I will respond if someone asks a question - but I certainly make it clear that anything I write is MY OPINION - or it is indeed fact. btw - I called almost to the dollar what the new MFs going forward would be - yet, no one else chimed in...

I do appreciate your opinion and view - but the way you state things has a lot to be desired (not the 1st time I have attempted to remind you of that - especially with your experience level in life...)

and please - I do not want to go back and forth battling over small nuances with you. (and will not...) I try and write quickly, but make no claims on being perfect. I believe I have made my thoughts and opinions very clear on this thread (and others) - and intend nothing more than to be helpful to those owning or planning on buying WSJ, or planning on visiting StJ.

I hope your travels have been well - and say hello to your (much) better half - and I will do the same. We only took a week of vacation in 2012 - and look forward to 2 weeks WSJ and 2 weeks at WKORV/WPORV this year (more than ever).

 

[Crasherino]

btw, as far as BV goes - the 2Bd BV lofts are really nice - I prefer them to the 3Bd and 2Bd BV villas (IMO).

This subject has come up for Week 53 (when it occurs) - I know how it works for WKORV/N because weeks 51 (xmas) and 52 (nye) are sold as event weeks. For years when there is a week 53, then the event weeks become week 52 (xmas) and week 53 (nye).

You bring up a good point about week 1. I would imagine for years (most) with 52 weeks - then week 1 follows week 52, and for years with 53 weeks then week 1 follows week 52 (yes... obviously). I would therefore imagine that this would also include the check-in day accordingly - as you wrote. There is a TUG sticky that shows 'weeks' according to the calendar years based on check-in day. I actually asked Robin to marry me based on our WSJ week at the time (wk 24) so we would be there on that day every year.
We now plan to celebrate with a meal cooked by Ted's Supper Club.

BUT - I would follow-up with the specific Owners Manual for WSJ-BV - to make sure there isn't some caveats.

btw - your kids will get older... so plan for that.
Also, if it were me (which it is not) and I was traveling with a party of more than 4 people - I would buy a 3Bd pool villa (resale) - but remember that WSJ-VG are all fixed weeks with fixed check-in days.

As top pros/cons between BV and VG (this has been previously discussed) - it really depends on how you plan to vacation now and in the future.

Villa style: pro for BV (if important - I like the BV style)
Villa layout: edge to BV... (depending)
Main resort access: pro for BV (as mentioned - this is not important to us)
Parking/getting away from resort: pro for VG (if one gets a car of course) - this is probably #1 for us
Pool/Patio/BBQ area: pro for VG (#2)
Partying w/ neighbors: pro for VG (if you like that sort of thing - we have had some fun times around the pool area at night)
View: pro for VG hillside buildings
Construction: pro for VG likely (from what I observed looking at the BV villas, and the buildings were once a hotel and converted to condos)
Ted's Supper Club: pro for VG

anyone else?

Great list, David - tks. Our last stay at WSJ was on the Hillside and the comraderie around the pool bbq is very attractive. We often bring citronella candles and eat outside. Also, I'm fairly confident that rum acts as a natural bug repellent - only after consuming heavy quantities of course.

And the point about kids getting older (while seemingly obvious) is also a good one. I'm not sure I want to lock myself in to a 3 bdrm Pool villa during Prez Week. In 15 years, I will have no desire to fight the masses for a spot at Cinnamon if I could go a week later and have half the people around. I could, of course, always rent the week out and simply purchase on the secondary market, but that's a step I'd hope to avoid if at all possible.

The floating week definitely seems like the way to go for me at this point.

 

[jarta]

"Not sure why you "take issue" with what I wrote - you do not even own at WSJ (unless that changed?) and iirc - only visited once."

I take issue (rarely) with what you write about St. John because what you write about WSJ and the VG section can be unbalanced.

You are entitled to be head over heels in love with WSJ. It is a good timeshare resort. If I were in the market for another Starwood timeshare (which I am not), I would still consider a 3-br pool villa in Building 43 or 44 of the VG phase of WSJ or the large 2-br villa that can sleep 10 in the BV phase of WSJ. But, I'm not. Plus I can trade into a 3-br pool villa any year I want to go to St. John. That's how I have visited WSJ 2 of the last 4 years.

You don't have to be an owner to experience WSJ or have an opinion about your stays there. And, WSJ is not a place to buy sight-unseen. I had the hots to buy at WSJ until I visited there. I no longer have the hots, but would visit again. The natural beauty is very appealing.

I find St. John exceedingly beautiful with great water activities and WSJ very relaxing. However, St. John is a hard and expensive place to get to, relatively expensive to stay at once you are there, no golf, the supermarkets are dirty, has laughable storefront imitation casinos, a rental car is a necessity and I find the St. John natives sometimes to be even more resentful of tourists than the notorious Hawaiian natives.

At WSJ, the pool is nice but the beach is pretty sad and the water is very calm, but slimy from all the boat traffic into the cove. Internet is spotty (at best). Cell phone reception is zero bars most of the day - unless you walk down to the beach (closest point to St. Thomas). Sand fleas infest the WSJ villas and the proof is obvious from the bites on the legs of most of the guests and the constant transport of matresses on the golf cart vehicles.

The North Shore beaches are wonderful. The park areas are still quite primitive (I consider that good). Driving the island can be quite a fun adventure (again in a good way). The day sails to Tortola and Jost are terrific. The restaurants in Cruz Bay are spotty. Most are average or below (and expensive). There are restaurants that serve outstanding food. They are not at WSJ. They, too, are expensive. The shops in Cruz Bay are mainly T-shirt and costume jewelry places.

As for the level of construction at WSJ VG, we can agree to disagree. But, it has never before held up well to hurricanes or storms. When Hurricane Marilyn hit in 1995 the entire resort was closed for about 2 years due to damage.

I find St. John and WSJ a mixed blessing - very good mixed with ordinary - or worse. Despite the great natural beauty, not for everyone and not for every year. However, if it gives you peace of mind, go for it! Salty

 

[DavidnRobin]

Beach break - Francis Bay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5TJSYYE_qKg#!

Crash - we go in June as to avoid the crowds and north-shore waters are calming than winter. We do not travel during peaks.

Salty - I still do not understand your responses. I have made it crystal clear on why we prefer VG, while others may prefer BV - and of course StJ is not for everyone (also repeated by me many times...). Not unexpected that your WSJ/StJ experiences are different than ours... if you want golf and casinos (btw, there is one small casino called the Parrot Club... that I believe only has slots - but is pretty clean - and empty - from our walks passed while at the Beach Bar). Also, clearly you do not know where to shop on StJ - or what to shop for - but we don't go for shopping, golf, or the restaurants (although - most of our restaurants visits are excellent - but what do we know about good food? lol)

Villas (mattresses) infested with 'sand fleas'? You should look up the life cycle of a sand flea (as you call them) - of course, such a bug does not exist (try gnats... or noseeums) - what you state is not based on fact (typical) - this type of BS from you really sets me off - probably because I work in a profession that depends on facts (and science) - where yours is a little more subjective in interpretation and use of facts.

I am very sensitive to noseeums (and not so much to mosquitoes like Robin) - but their bites come being on the beach and not in the villas (where their life-cycle cannot be maintained) - this is why their bites are found below the knees unless foolish enough to lay down on the sand unprotected during sunset (when they come out). Also, nosseum bites take about a day to manifest (and hurt/itch like hell). Uninformed people (or people who choose to be uninformed) often make this mistake when traveling to places with noseeums - they are not unique to stJ.

 

[jarta]

David, ... I think you understand my posts. You do not wish for any opinion that differs from yours to be posted here because you consider this thread your own personal possession. As I said St. John and WSJ are a mixed blessing and one I will partake in again - because of the natural beauty of the island. Located anywhere else WSJ would be considered mediocre. Location, location, location! Salty

 

[DavidnRobin]

David, ... I think you understand my posts. You do not wish for any opinion that differs from yours to be posted here because you consider this thread your own personal possession. As I said St. John and WSJ are a mixed blessing and one I will partake in again - because of the natural beauty of the island. Located anywhere else WSJ would be considered mediocre. Location, location, location! Salty

Yeah - right... you have me pegged... :hysterical:

how's this...

HEY EVERYONE!
If you are looking for golf, a Four Seasons type of resort, no bugs, no heat, no humidity, great casinos, great shopping, skiing, night-life, a cheap vacation, easy access, etc - WSJ/StJ may not be for you.

dude, you may want to switch up on your meds...

I am always happy when people post to this thread (except for you of course... ) - and try to be as helpful as I can (and give MY opinion) - and I think most normal people would agree. I understand why people do not like WSJ, or prefer BV over VG. I am just not sure how you manage to interpret my intent or posts differently. Add in the attacking manner you seem to enjoy (along with twisting what is said to your perception and strange approach to responding) - and it just becomes annoying...

 

[YYJMSP]

I swear, reading your back-and-forths is better than watching some bad sit-com -- you two bicker like an unhappily married couple :hysterical:

 

[DavidnRobin]

I swear, reading your back-and-forths is better than watching some bad sit-com -- you two bicker like an unhappily married couple :hysterical:

Glad it amuses you. I was just responding to Crash who asked a few questions - I certainly did not need (or warrant) an attack from the sidelines. However, I will not back down when BS is thrown my way - especially when I have dealt with the twist of words before - and outright misrepresentation. jarta must have a record amount of Tuggers that have him on 'ignore' (or maybe e.bram), and now I do as well (again).

Of course I realize you Canadians are much more polite...

 

[DavidnRobin]

[NaCl's spirit may be dying, but mine won't be estinguished so easily...]

So, in that vein....
Take a ride up the last stretch of the North Shore road and meet up at Centerline road for a cold drink at Colombo's smoothie stand....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P-V5Crql9aw

I like to put these on full-screen with my face close and pretend I am there...
June Soon Come.

 

[YYJMSP]

[NaCl's spirit may be dying, but mine won't be estinguished so easily...]

Oooo, that reference took me a few seconds to figure out, good one...

 

[amundson]

Since we were heading to St. Thomas for a fishing charter...

How was the fishing charter you used on St. Thomas? Do you recommend it?

I like to fish at least once on my vacations. This year I was thinking about just doing some inshore, flats-type fishing on St. John.

Thanks to everyone who contributes to this thread. I find it very helpful.

 

[YDREDSOX]

Get Westin ST John Attn

Below is the list of members for the St. John Board of Directors:

Mr. Thorp Thomas (President, Treasurer)
Mr. Reginald D. Billups (Vice President)
Ms. Paulette Carter (Secretary)
Mr. Walter DeCastro
Ms. Melissa Brookes

Contact Address:
9002 San Marco Court
Orlando, FL 32819

You may send an e-mail to associationmgmt@starwoodvo.com
Please make sure that your e-mail is to the attention of the Board of Directors. Once we receive the e-mail, it will be forwarded and brought to the attention of the board members.

If you want to get the Exec Mgmt attention, look up the BOD of the overall Starwood company, and then email them at their company with your issues. As part of your email, I would suggest you let them know that you're read to go viral i.e, You Tube, Twitter, Facebook with your concerns and with pictures to support the concerns. Believe me, they don't want VIRAL to SPIRAL

 

[DavidnRobin]

If you want to get the Exec Mgmt attention, look up the BOD of the overall Starwood company, and then email them at their company with your issues. As part of your email, I would suggest you let them know that you're read to go viral i.e, You Tube, Twitter, Facebook with your concerns and with pictures to support the concerns. Believe me, they don't want VIRAL to SPIRAL

Note: This is a response to very old post (2008?)... YD - you should peruse the thread - much has happened since this thread was started way back when...

and welcome to TUG

 

[LisaRex]

How was the fishing charter you used on St. Thomas? Do you recommend it?

We loved our fishing charter. It was basically a fisherman and his boat. No frills to speak of, not even a bimini top. But he was the best fisherman I've ever met. He had 4 lines trolling at the same time. We caught tons of fish! He also taught 3 of us to spear fish and catch lobster, though neither of those ventures were very successful. The best part was eating our freshly caught fish on our own private beach. (Captain Rick wrapped them in leaves and grilled them.)

Swashbucklin' Tours out of St. Thomas. We did the whole day trip. He was very reasonable. I think his boat only holds 6, but 4 was plenty crowded.

http://www.swashbucklintours.com/fishing.php#.USZ6wvJliSo

 

[DavidnRobin]

We loved our fishing charter. It was basically a fisherman and his boat. No frills to speak of, not even a bimini top. But he was the best fisherman I've ever met. He had 4 lines trolling at the same time. We caught tons of fish! He also taught 3 of us to spear fish and catch lobster, though neither of those ventures were very successful. The best part was eating our freshly caught fish on our own private beach. (Captain Rick wrapped them in leaves and grilled them.)

Swashbucklin' Tours out of St. Thomas. We did the whole day trip. He was very reasonable. I think his boat only holds 6, but 4 was plenty crowded.

http://www.swashbucklintours.com/fishing.php#.USZ6wvJliSo

Excellent info - sounds way fun (in calm seas). No bimini? Yikes! bring plenty of sun protection.

 

[ValleyGirl]

Day trips to Jost and Tortola

We have a 3BR @ St John for May 19-26. :whoopie:

I know this may seem like an overly simple question - but!
One does not need a passport to visit USVI but you do for BVI. I had heard that travelling, sailing, or going ashore was a hassle and expensive if you travelled either direction between USVI & BVI.

We love to sail and experience the ambience at Jost (Soggy Dollar and Foxy's).

We are experienced enough that a 41' mono-hull with a captain would be a great day adventure for a party of 6. Any ideas of what a "Boat and captain" would run?

What has your or anyone else's experience been? Do you stay long at Jost?


We are at Princeville as I write this. Its raining - oops it stopped - oops its raining again - but still a fantastic vacation with dinner at CJ's last night!
Here's to great SVO vacation experiences!

 

[DavidnRobin]

We have a 3BR @ St John for May 19-26. :whoopie:

I know this may seem like an overly simple question - but!
One does not need a passport to visit USVI but you do for BVI. I had heard that travelling, sailing, or going ashore was a hassle and expensive if you travelled either direction between USVI & BVI.

We love to sail and experience the ambience at Jost (Soggy Dollar and Foxy's).

We are experienced enough that a 41' mono-hull with a captain would be a great day adventure for a party of 6. Any ideas of what a "Boat and captain" would run?

What has your or anyone else's experience been? Do you stay long at Jost?


We are at Princeville as I write this. Its raining - oops it stopped - oops its raining again - but still a fantastic vacation with dinner at CJ's last night!
Here's to great SVO vacation experiences!

You will need passport - it is a bit of a hassle, but the Captain will do the work (either at Sopers Hole or on JVD) - I have found Sopers Hole easier since you can pull up directly) - it is about $20pp. If you want to go to Foxys - you might as well do it on JVD. But White Bay is where we like to be...

Can't help with a sailing charter - but there is a lot on-line.