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Valuation help for a possible Marriott resale

samelli

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Hi all! I am considering purchasing a family friend's Marriott timeshare and wanted to understand a few things first.

There are 2 separate timeshares in the account:
1) Is a week at Marriott’s Grande Vista in Orlando. 2 Bedroom + 2 Bath. Season: Platinum
It says “Enrolled” (I believe this means points)

2) Is points. It's unclear how many points. I was given the owner portal but because I see the week was enrolled, I don’t know how to tell how much of the timeshare is the straight points versus how much are the points from the enrolled week.

It shows for 2024 that there are 2,500 Banked Trust Points and 2,500 Trust Points and for 2023 there are 2,100 Banked Trust Points. I’m not sure if because travel was booked for 2023 and so points were used, or borrowed from, or banked from prior years, or how to tell what the amount of the paid annual points is.

The owner's loan balance is $15,000. I believe this is just for the points, not for the week at Grande Vista which they said is paid off.

Total MF for both timeshares appears to be approx. $2,800/year, but it’s split into 4 payments annually. So not sure which payment is for which timeshare. Looks like the Orlando week is ~$1400/year based on the charts provided by members here.

A few questions because even though I’ve been playing airline/hotel points games for years, I am a newbie at timeshares and you all seem to be absolute pros!!

1) For the week at Grande Vista, how do I find out if it is a fixed week or floating. And what season it is? All I see is Platinum. (When I see this posting, it seems that Platinum is high season, but how do I confirm this? I want to make sure it trades favorably at other Marriott resorts and on Interval International bc I have very little intention of going to Orlando annually. https://www.redweek.com/posting/R994702)

2) How do I confirm the number of points the Grande Vista 2 BR Platinum week converts to? Both for Marriott and for II? Is there a chart that shows this, or should I call Marriott? (I found this link in the FAQ, which seems to show 2BR Platinum as 2,775 points: http://historical.vacationpointexchange.com). Unfortunately, this does not seem to convert well when I see how many points are needed to book Waikoloa on Big Island, or for Mar Bella in Spain, as examples.

3) For the Grande Vista week, this page (https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/enroll) shows that there is a fee to enroll. "As an Owner, you have the option to enroll in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program (the "Exchange Program"). You may enroll week(s) purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates in the Exchange Program for only $595 for enrollment of one week and $695 for enrollment of more than one week." So does that mean that fee needs to be paid every year to enroll it in points, or was it done one-time? That seems like quite a cost to enroll every year…why would I want a week versus points if I keep needing to convert to points each year for a fee? For context, week was purchased by original owner in 2016.

4) I have read on here about 2 BR lock-offs being desirable because they can be split (somehow??) into two different booking weeks when exchanging. I’m not quite sure how to do that, but the first question would be how do I find out if this is a 2 bedroom lock off or not? And I guess if it is enrolled in points, maybe that becomes a moot point.

5) From a value perspective how do I assess the value of these two timeshares in order to purchase? My assumption at the moment is I could purchase them for the price of the outstanding balance because that’s why the current owner wants to sell — to get rid of all the payments — either take over the loan for $400/month or pay it off. (I would personally pay off the $15k and own them outright.) Part One of this question is — at $15k am I overpaying for these two timeshares? And Part Two is (because it’s a family friend and I want to be fair) am I compensating fairly if I take over both for the $15k?

5) Is there any benefit to keeping it in the original owner's name and me taking over payments of the MF versus deeding it in my name, e.g. are there any benefits that get stripped during a resale? (Reading the FAQ it seems that as a resale it is not eligible for points enrollment, but is it now permanently enrolled by the original owner and therefore eligible to new owner (me)? Or do I have to enroll it every year, and do I lose that right if I buy it resale? Week was purchased in 2016. https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/m...destination-points-timeshare-faq-guide.197346)

***

Side note for context: I am currently under contract for Westin Flex, purchased by the developer at West Desert Willows. Fortunately,
this is what brought me to TUGs! I am still within the 10 day rescind period, so am currently weighing my options, as advised. :)

I paid $18,000 including closing costs for 44,000 Westin Flex points (~ 1 bedroom 1 week) with $1,080 annual MF, and as incentives got 88,000 additional points to use by 2024, deferred the MF payments til 2024, and earned 200,000 Bonvoy points for using the Amex. Also got 6 of the "buy 330,000 Bonvoy points for ~$2,500” deals. Pretty standard probably.

I usually say no to timeshares at presentations, but the reasons I was sold on this one was:

The flexibility of the point system—I really don’t like having any sort of fixed week anywhere, I want to be able to tack on 3 days in a resort as part of a longer trip, 2 days here in a studio, etc. We are not the kind (yet?) who go to 1 place each year, we try to go to a new place every year.

The Marriott Bonvoy points, which we can use at regular hotels too. I tend to use points to string together travel across a country, and also for short getaways in Southern California.

The ability to exchange on Interval International. I can’t tell if it’s a scam or not but I see getaway prices for like $350 for the week, and since I tend to be able to travel with very flexible dates and will work around a deal, I like this. I can’t tell if those prices are real or not or they’re just an exchange booking fee and then I am responsible for that year’s MF for the other person’s timeshare. But if I can work the II system I really like this option for the rest of our travel outside our timeshare points.

I have been looking at booking travel after not traveling for a couple years, and wow prices have gone up. Also we now have a baby, and we used to do much more budget travel so would never pay these hotel prices anyway (if comparing ROI) but after a week in Westin Palm Desert Willows I am seeing the benefit of at least ONE week per year just being NICE, and EASY in a villa! lol. and seems like timeshare is a good way to just guarantee that we will do that every year ongoingly.

The sales pitch was that we were buying into the Marriott merger at Westin prices, and soon (in June 2022) we would have access to all of the Marriott resorts as well as Westin. That Marriott owners were coming over to Westin to stock up on points before the merger, at this soft launch (April 2022). I am also down for all the Westin locations, they seem great, but I want access to Marriott locations as well. I did go over to the Marriott Shadow Ridge the next day and confirm with the salesperson that 2,500 points (which was quoted vaguely by the salesperson to be “about a week in a 1 bedroom") started at $30,000. So $18,000 didn’t seem so bad...

I understand that the resale Vistana timeshares are restricted somehow in the kind of points I can use, though I don’t totally understand how. I like the threads where people buy Vistana resale, then go to developer and have them reinstated along with the new purchase. But looking through the forums I am slightly concerned about the 12 month / 8 month booking windows with the Westin Flex trust, what is and is not included, and if that will severely limit my access to Marriott properties. I feel these are things that I might get stuck with not being able to travel to the places I want to go. I’m also concerned that we bought one week of Westin but if I wanted to go to a Marriott Hawaii resort for example I might only get enough points to stay for like 5 days instead of 7 because of the exchange.

Once I own I know that I will play around with rental income, exchanges, etc, but I just don’t want to have started off on the wrong foot locking myself into Westin Flex if it’s not the best way to access the most possible points for exchanges.

All that to say that now this family friend opportunity to buy the Marriott timeshares presented itself, and so if I really want Marriott access through Westin, why not buy the Marriott resale instead? But I’m having a hard time figuring out the valuation and it seems I am comparing apples to oranges! :)

I hope that was enough info and context. Thanks in advance for the help and I am excited to become an owner soon and play the vacation game with you all!
 
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SueDonJ

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...
1) For the week at Grande Vista, how do I find out if it is a fixed week or floating. And what season it is? All I see is Platinum. (When I see this posting, it seems that Platinum is high season, but how do I confirm this? I want to make sure it trades favorably at other Marriott resorts and on Interval International bc I have very little intention of going to Orlando annually. https://www.redweek.com/posting/R994702)

2) How do I confirm the number of points the Grande Vista 2 BR Platinum week converts to? Both for Marriott and for II? Is there a chart that shows this, or should I call Marriott? (I found this link in the FAQ, which seems to show 2BR Platinum as 2,775 points: http://historical.vacationpointexchange.com). Unfortunately, this does not seem to convert well when I see how many points are needed to book Waikoloa on Big Island, or for Mar Bella in Spain, as examples.

3) For the Grande Vista week, this page (https://owners.marriottvacationclub.com/timeshare/mvco/enroll) shows that there is a fee to enroll. "As an Owner, you have the option to enroll in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program (the "Exchange Program"). You may enroll week(s) purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates in the Exchange Program for only $595 for enrollment of one week and $695 for enrollment of more than one week." So does that mean that fee needs to be paid every year to enroll it in points, or was it done one-time? That seems like quite a cost to enroll every year…why would I want a week versus points if I keep needing to convert to points each year for a fee? For context, week was purchased by original owner in 2016.

...

5) Is there any benefit to keeping it in the original owner's name and me taking over payments of the MF versus deeding it in my name, e.g. are there any benefits that get stripped during a resale? (Reading the FAQ it seems that as a resale it is not eligible for points enrollment, but is it now permanently enrolled by the original owner and therefore eligible to new owner (me)? Or do I have to enroll it every year, and do I lose that right if I buy it resale? Week was purchased in 2016. https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/m...destination-points-timeshare-faq-guide.197346)
...

Hi, @samelli, and welcome to TUG!

I'm sure others will chime in on your questions about the value of resale Destination Club Trust Points specifically, and of purchasing an external resale of those Points considering that there's an outstanding loan amount on the original purchase. About the external resale of the enrolled Grande Vista week, though, if you purchase it from the owner then you will not have the ability to exchange it annually for DC Exchange Points. Enrollment does not transfer with the purchase of an external resale Week (although there are periodic sales incentives that will allow you to re-enroll it as the new owner with the additional purchase of DC Trust Points.

As for whether the Grande Vista Week is fixed or float, all Weeks at that resort are floating with no fixed Weeks. Each Marriott resort has its own seasonal calendar and all of them can be accessed through @dioxide45's compilation post linked here.
 

VacationForever

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I am travelling and using my tablet so it is hard to get through your entire post. I read half and I got the gist of it.

1) Rescind your Westin Flex purchase immediately. It is too expensive.

2) Since Vistana is being merged into MVC, you will have access to all resorts in Vistana, in which Westin Flex resorts are a subset of, when you buy the package from your friend.

3) Enrolled week becomes unenrolled once it gets resold. You will get it as a 2Br L/O Platinum, and it is the higher season of the 2, the other being Gold. The week floats within the platinum season. No election to DC points option. To lockoff, you simply select one side to reserve the week at a time. Since the week will be unenrolled on resale, you will need to pay lockoff fee of around $90 when you book as 2 separate reservations. Unfortunately, you will need to pay for an additional II membership fee, plus exchange fees for the unenrolled resale week. I think you can buy a similar week in the resale market for about $2K to $3K to pass ROFR.

4) You can buy resale points for about $7 per point, which includes the education fee, aka junk fees. $4 a point to pass Right Of First Refusal, and another $3 in junk fees. If you buy from your friend, you will still have to pay the junk fees. I would say that your friends points are worth about $10K in the resale market.

I would not want to "buy" and keep the account as your friend's. Relationships can go south. You will lose the enrolled benefits of the week but I still would never want to pay for a timeshare and keep it in another person's account.

A fair price would be no more than $13K, and not to forget that you have to pay another roughly $7.5K in junk fees to make the DC points fully functional in the Marriott Destination Club system.

Resale weeks cannot elect Bonvoy points. With DC point, I think at the owner level, you can convert up to 50% of the points into Bonvoy at a ratio of 1:42. With Bonvoy points devaluation, it is not cost effective to convert. If you live in the US, just get an Amex Bonvoy or Chase Visa Bonvoy credit card. Points run up quickly.

II has cash sales of getaway weeks. These are inventory in over supply. You can buy as many as you want and prices vary with locations, resorts and sizes. No strings attached.

To get an idea of reported ROFR prices, go check out rofr.net .
 
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TheTimeTraveler

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Before buying anything from anyone I would be tempted to rent a week just to be sure ownership is the correct route for you. You may find that you absolutely love it. On the other hand, you may find that it's not your cup of tea. Easier to find out now rather than later.

Based upon your questions I would think you should do a lot more reading and learning prior to taking the actual plunge.

Best of luck and welcome to TUG.




.
 

Dean

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I'll chime in also to cancel until you understand the options. When you do you will not buy that week & resort retail. You have some significant education needed before you do anything. It sounds like your friend has maybe 2500 points at most. A reasonable value is $3-4 PP given the additional costs you'll have and will have to be paid off to transfer. The GV weeks is worth maybe $2K if it's a 2 BR and will not remained enrolled if transferred to you. You'd have another $500 or so total to transfer the 2. Don't rush into this, make sure you understand what you're getting into.
 
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vacationtime1

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The GV week + the points are not worth anything close to $15K together (I agree with @Dean's valuations).

I would stay away from this transaction.
 

Dean

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Let me add. Be careful dealing with your friend. If they are having financial difficulty, you are not going to be able to bail them out of this unless you simply want to throw away money for their benefit. I've seen quite a few times where someone doesn't understand the actual value resale and they get upset with the person telling them the actual value. There are some ways to potentially make this workable for you and your friend if they are realistic. Once you investigate and understand the implications, you'll know more what those might be. Some are questionable but legal and likely not workable if your friend is having financial difficulty. OTOH, if they are realistic and do actually understand what they own is worth less than what they now owe and are willing to work with you, it could be a win win situation if they just want out for a fair price.
 

samelli

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The GV week + the points are not worth anything close to $15K together (I agree with @Dean's valuations).

I would stay away from this transaction.

VERY helpful to look at valuation - have been looking at similar points on RedWeek etc since posting and yes, looks like $15k for all is likely too much, given the costs of sale and figuring out how to get the week to re-enroll.
 

samelli

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Before buying anything from anyone I would be tempted to rent a week just to be sure ownership is the correct route for you. You may find that you absolutely love it. On the other hand, you may find that it's not your cup of tea. Easier to find out now rather than later.

Based upon your questions I would think you should do a lot more reading and learning prior to taking the actual plunge.

Best of luck and welcome to TUG.

.

I think I had such a nice time at the Westin Desert Willow (we did the $299 for 5 days in exchange for presentation) that I got excited about going every year lol. So, now I'm looking at just buying a 2BR high season week there resale for $1500-2000 and then once I learn more how this all works, I can play with buying further Marriott/Westin Flex points to play the whole game!! :)
 

samelli

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I am travelling and using my tablet so it is hard to get through your entire post. I read half and I got the gist of it.

1) Rescind your Westin Flex purchase immediately. It is too expensive.

2) Since Vistana is being merged into MVC, you will have access to all resorts in Vistana, in which Westin Flex resorts are a subset of, when you buy the package from your friend.

3) Enrolled week becomes unenrolled once it gets resold. You will get it as a 2Br L/O Platinum, and it is the higher season of the 2, the other being Gold. The week floats within the platinum season. No election to DC points option. To lockoff, you simply select one side to reserve the week at a time. Since the week will be unenrolled on resale, you will need to pay lockoff fee of around $90 when you book as 2 separate reservations. Unfortunately, you will need to pay for an additional II membership fee, plus exchange fees for the unenrolled resale week. I think you can buy a similar week in the resale market for about $2K to $3K to pass ROFR.

4) You can buy resale points for about $7 per point, which includes the education fee, aka junk fees. $4 a point to pass Right Of First Refusal, and another $3 in junk fees. If you buy from your friend, you will still have to pay the junk fees. I would say that your friends points are worth about $10K in the resale market.

I would not want to "buy" and keep the account as your friend's. Relationships can go south. You will lose the enrolled benefits of the week but I still would never want to pay for a timeshare and keep it in another person's account.

A fair price would be no more than $13K, and not to forget that you have to pay another roughly $7.5K in junk fees to make the DC points fully functional in the Marriott Destination Club system.

Resale weeks cannot elect Bonvoy points. With DC point, I think at the owner level, you can convert up to 50% of the points into Bonvoy at a ratio of 1:42. With Bonvoy points devaluation, it is not cost effective to convert. If you live in the US, just get an Amex Bonvoy or Chase Visa Bonvoy credit card. Points run up quickly.

II has cash sales of getaway weeks. These are inventory in over supply. You can buy as many as you want and prices vary with locations, resorts and sizes. No strings attached.

To get an idea of reported ROFR prices, go check out rofr.net .

Appreciate all this detail!

Re: Westin Flex - I just wrote my rescission letter for Westin Flex, mailing out tomorrow. (TUG trackers: saved $18,000 and $1,080 in annual MF).

Re: Marriott purchase - family friend is going to call Owner Modifications to get more info because without starting that process they won't answer any questions. I also told friend to ask about Marriott taking back her points with ROFR, maybe that's a good solution to get out. Mostly she just never uses it... And I will likely hold off on purchasing the week. Thinking at this point that if I buy anything that is not points, it should just be at a location I want to actually go to. Worst case scenario I go there every year, if I can't figure out how to trade because the benefits were stripped in a resale.

And then I can slowly stack up resale points over time, as needs increase! Seems harder to buy Points resale though, while there are plenty of Weeks being given away practically free...! Will keep poring through forums...THANK YOU ALL!!!
 

m61376

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Buying on a vacation high is common. Lucky you for finding Tug in time!
First of all, immediately rescind and make sure you do it according to the paperwork. No matter what they say, you surely could get a similar deal at some future point, but you probably won’t want to.
As for your friend- realistically it’s likely a good way to end your friendship. Unless your friend is savvy and knows the real value, the likelihood is he thinks it’s worth much more than he still owes. Offering less than the loan would likely be felt as insulting, yet with the Marriott fees to use the points you’d be overpaying. And, as others have said, friendships change over the years, and paying but not having it in your name is likely to be irritating at best and fraught with a lot of negative potential.
Best advice- tell your friend you decided just to buy a resale week where you really want to go.
Welcome to Tug and to timesharing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

igopogo

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And then I can slowly stack up resale points over time, as needs increase! Seems harder to buy Points resale though, while there are plenty of Weeks being given away practically free
Keep in mind that once you own any amount of points you can rent whatever else you need at or below the cost of MF. They are there when you need them and you won’t pay when you don’t.
 
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