UPDATE: RCI CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - must read for all RCI members [Includes Results]

[Carolinian]

Perry, your analysis is on the micro rather than macro level. An informed timesharer can certainly improve his own vacations by switching to II or SFX or DAE or Redweek or others or some combination. The problem is that the percentage of timesharers informed enough to do that is relatively small, so we would just be burying our heads in the sand.

On the macro level, what RCI is doing is changing the whole chemistry of timesharing. Unless our resorts are savvy and able to adjust, and many of them will not see it coming, they are going to get squahed, and that impacts our vacations, too! If our m/f's skyrocket as a result of bailouts or our resorts go under, that impacts us a lot more than getting a crummier week for our exchange. And the small percentage of imformed timesharers just picking another exchange company is not going to ward off that problem.

RCI's shananigans are already impacting resorts in terms of bailouts, and it can only get worse. One of the big pluses that may come out of getting better notice is that HOA's might start wising up. That is still a major slog, though, because it is own-to-use members who tend to dominate HOA boards they and they usually do not pay that much attention to exchanging.
That is why we need to be proactive and push our HOA to try to migrate exchanger owners to other, more owner-friendly exchange systems.

I'm afraid, Perry, that you cannot see the forest for the trees.

 

[Jennie]

HELLO?! Perry.

Please read my post #241 above.

The average RCI Weeks member (many of whom bought their weeks 15-25 years ago and are now senior citizens) have no idea RCI is renting space-banked weeks. Many of them are not on the Internet. How do you propose to get your "dump RCI" message out to them?

The 4x6 postcard to be placed in EV Magazine is RCI's attorneys suggestion to the Court as to how the re-notice should be sent. This to the same Judge who ruled that their first notice in EV Magazine was insufficient. I think the Judge must be outraged by their current proposal. The "Objectors" and hopefully the plaintiff's attorneys, who are supposed to be representing the RCI Weeks members, are asking for much more. We want all RCI members to be fully aware of what RCI is doing with deposited weeks, and what their options are, including taking their business elsewhere.

 

[thheath]

You guys are just enabling Perry; there is nothing you can say that will make sense to him. Don't respond to his posts, he's already hijacked the thread.

 

[PerryM]

HELLO?! Perry.

Please read my post #242 above.

The average RCI Weeks member (many of whom bought their weeks 15-25 years ago and are now senior citizens) have no idea RCI is renting space-banked weeks. Many of them are not on the Internet. How do you propose to get your "dump RCI" message out to them?

The 4x6 postcard to be placed in EV Magazine is RCI's attorneys suggestion to the Court as to how the re-notice should be sent. This to the same Judge who ruled that their first notice in EV Magazine was insufficient. I think the Judge must be outraged by their current proposal. The "Objectors" and hopefully the plaintiff's attorneys, who are supposed to be representing the RCI Weeks members, are asking for much more. We want all RCI members to be fully aware of what RCI is doing with deposited weeks, and what their options are, including taking their business elsewhere.

Must not be much a problem if the vast majority of RCI members don't see anything wrong. If the vast majority of RCI members are happy with RCI who are you to tell them that they are schmucks?

Hard to educate and convince them to join a lynch mob to hang RCI. Best of luck. Somebody alert me when anyone here can attribute a better RCI exchange to the lawyers.

I've been involved with 10+ class action lawsuits over the years - the average coupon is $25 and the lawyers made millions. I join them if we receive a letter and we just sign and wait for our coupon. Takes 1 minute of my time.

So enjoy your coupon...

 

[TUGBrian]

enough of the bickering, if you dont have something useful to say...please dont bother saying it.

 

[PerryM]

oops I'll bow out now.

 

[e.bram]

If the suit does nothing more than inhibit the way Wyndham and other developers for touting RCI agressively as way of exchanging any TS(the one being sold at the presentation) for any other TS any time and handing out the RCI book as a sales too,l it will have accomplished is purpose. Anything else will be icing on the cake.

 

[MuranoJo]

If the suit does nothing more than inhibit the way Wyndham and other developers for touting RCI agressively as way of exchanging any TS(the one being sold at the presentation) for any other TS any time and handing out the RCI book as a sales too,l it will have accomplished is purpose. Anything else will be icing on the cake.

Amen!
Any TS, including any TS anywhere in the world.

 

[kirby2000]

Thanks Jennie for what you have done. I had never heard of the Class Act Suit before tonight -- a little behind the curve, huh. At least now when I get my Endless Vacations magazine I will look for the 4x6 card.

I never have any success trading for decent resorts during decent weeks and now I know why....RCI is renting them out instead of allowing members to exchange for them! I always suspected as much....

My story is long and complicated. The quick version: when my parents passed away I was advised to put the deeds in my name while I was the Power of Attorney and closing out the estate -- now I cannot get rid of them and I have to pay the maintenance fees every year. I have about six weeks spacebanked and I can't remember how many weeks I have let expire. In other posts I see advice to list them here on TUG and maybe I'll try that next. Quick question to people that have defaulted by not paying maintenance fees - what happens? I am considering this option when December/January rolls back around. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and sharing experiences.

 

[cancun dish]

Just out of curiousity where/when do you own and where have you tried to go?

 

[Talent312]

Quick question to people that have defaulted by not paying maintenance fees - what happens? I am considering this option when December/January rolls back around.

Not that I have personal experience, but most likley, the HOA will...
(a) Turn the debt over to a collections agency who will hound you;
(b) Sue you to obtain a judgment for foreclosure & deficiency; and
(c) Report the default to credit reporting agencies, which will impair your ability to open bank accounts, obtain credit cards or other loans, lease apartments or cars, and increase your insurance premiums.
--- Better to list the TS's on ebay for $1 and offer to pay closing costs (IMHO).

 

[PerryM]

Not that I have personal experience, but most likley, the HOA will...
(a) Turn the debt over to a collections agency who will hound you;
(b) Sue you to obtain a judgment for foreclosure & deficiency; and
(c) Report the default to credit reporting agencies, which will impair your ability to open bank accounts, obtain credit cards or other loans, lease apartments or cars, and increase your insurance premiums.
--- Better to list the TS's on ebay for $1 and offer to pay closing costs (IMHO).

$1 eBay timeshares are too expensive as the real estate market implodes - demanding the seller pay closing costs and including a week of usage should be the buyer's strategy.

We have arrived at that time of the year where owners face the huge problem of trying to pay next years MFs expect great bargains on eBay and elsewhere - but don't pay $1, make the seller pay you to unload their burden.

You sellers must realize that thousands of other folks are dumping their timeshares this time of the year and you are competing against them and it really boils down to this is a buyer's market and not a seller's market - good luck.

I know that many here are hurting but this is reality talking - selling in Q2 of 2010 will probably get you a better deal - but that's assuming the real estate market has some kind of recovery in the mean time. That may be wishful thinking.

But whatever you do don't walk away from those MFs - they will not go away but metastasize into something much worse.

 

[kirby2000]

Just out of curiousity where/when do you own and where have you tried to go?

I own weeks 10 and 16 at The Historic Powhatan Resort (RCI #1046) in Williamsburg, VA, both are A&B lockout units. I've tried many times in the past (several years running) to find a unit at the beach on the East coast within reasonable proximity of driving from Virginia (10 to 12 hours max) either the first week of April (our kids Spring Break), Fourth of July week, or any week during June or July, or Labor Day week in September.

Thanks for all the info and advice about keeping up the maintenance fees, and how if I don't my credit will be ruined. I don't want that.

Thinking out of the box -- has anybody ever visited their resort during their week and followed along sales tours and then approach the "customers" with a really good bargain..like a timeshare for a $1? I'm thinking this way because I am sure weeks are still being sold at timeshare resorts for thousands of dollars.

Any other suggestions in or out of the box would be appreciated.

 

[Carolinian]

You might see if one of the independent exchange companies could get something you want:

www.daelive.com

www.htse.net

www.tradingplaces.com

www.platinuminterchange.com

Any of these should accept your resort as a deposit.

 

[sandkastle4966]

Kirby -

you will not have great luck getting a beach unit during the summer months (especially July 4 weekend) using a Williamsburg week.

Owners of beach front summer do not deposit a lot of weeks so availability is low. Of those deposited, only "tiger traders" or "top tier" traders are going to pull those trades.

Williamsburg is not going to be a "top trader". Top traders will be beach summer, prime ski resorts in winter, manhatten club, DVC, etc.

with enough advance searching you should be getting april timeframes....

 

[Jennie]

We got our timeshare june 2004 unit39 a&b wk 19 it was supposed to be built within a year. It is not even been started its been 5 years! we never received a time share magizine we did receive a letter from resort consulting group. We went to this meeting sat aug. 8 @noon. They wanted us to pay $3265.00 to give up our ownership to eValley LLC. Chase Heatwole said creekside timeshares were being sold on ebay for $1.oo. after getting on the computer the complaints came up we had no idea other people were having the same problems we were having. Please let us know any information or who to contact about creekside timeshare.

Mosey on over here:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96347&highlight=creekside
to compare notes with other disgruntled owners at your resort.

Good luck Guys

 

[Lisa P]

I own weeks 10 and 16...in Williamsburg, VA.... I've tried many times in the past (several years running) to find a unit at the beach on the East coast... either the first week of April (our kids Spring Break), Fourth of July week, or any week during June or July, or Labor Day week in September.

Sorry to say, you're trying to trade a cool, off-season week inland into a high season week at the beach - especially within driving distance of huge population centers. So you'll have a ton of competition for that trade. Won't happen, except perhaps for the early April week in years when it falls nowhere near Easter weekend. Whenever an exchange company permits this much of an upgrade, folks love it :whoopie: ...... until they try to trade their prime week into another prime week and discover there's no prime inventory left because it was all given away to others with offseason weeks. RCI has been tightening the trade power reins, especially in the last two years or so - some win, some lose. You may find that, with diligence in searching daily and watching the sightings forums regularly, that you may be able to do a last minute trade (within 45 days of travel) to the beach, if your schedule is flexible enough to travel with little notice. Sorry.

 

[Lisa P]

Delta... and US Airways.... Both of those campaigns backed those airlines down on their anti-customers moves in their ff programs.

What was accomplished and since the costs eventually pass on to the consumer anyhow, at what cost? Were these expensive class action suits too?

If the suit does nothing more than inhibit the way Wyndham and other developers for touting RCI agressively as way of exchanging any TS(the one being sold at the presentation) for any other TS any time and handing out the RCI book as a sales too,l it will have accomplished is purpose. Anything else will be icing on the cake.

This could not be accomplished through this RCI lawsuit. The developers are not named here and they would have no accountability through this lawsuit's outcome. Very good idea but it would require an entirely different approach than this existing class action.

 

[Lisa P]

One of the big pluses that may come out of getting better notice is that HOA's might start wising up. That is still a major slog, though, because it is own-to-use members who tend to dominate HOA boards they and they usually do not pay that much attention to exchanging.

So do you expect the HOA's to suddenly sit up and take notice... change their affiliation agreements... because they receive a 4x6 card in the magazine or a couple curious owners contact them to ask how it impacts them??? Will this 4x6 card even say anything about RCI renting out prime weeks or does it just reiterate what it already says in the Terms and Conditions? Do you expect it to make a dramatic difference or is this really just wishful thinking?

As a health care provider, I think in terms of cost vs. benefit, risk vs. gain. I really wonder about the cost vs. benefit to Members with this suit. The cost matters, it will eventually trickle down to us, with increased exchange fees. A one-time $20 discount off one exchange fee can easily turn into a $15 increase per exchange with a premature price increase and we (frequent exchangers) simply lose. We also know that every aggressive action has the potential for untended, negative results.

In timesharing, my family actually likes the resorts, destinations and chains that are affiliated with RCI. We are also among some half-million Wyndham owners who get our annual RCI membership included with our ownership. There are several other chains that provide (free/included) individual or corporate membership access to RCI exchange inventory too, paid indirectly through maint fees (Bluegreen, HGVC, DVC, etc.). This issue is not addressed in this lawsuit and will not change as a result of it. The combination of these factors keeps us (and many, many others) exchanging through RCI.

This class action lawsuit has neither the weight nor direction to actually, substantially impact the availability of exchanges into many of these desired resorts and chains. Increasing dual-affiliation could even result in more limited availability in the most desirable destinations through RCI. So for us and for many others who prefer not to pay the added membership with II, this thing could easily backfire into total, higher fees annually (adding II, increasing RCI fees) coupled with more limited exchange availability at our desired destinations. No matter how it goes from here, it just looks like a losing proposition for us! If the plaintiff attorneys were competent and doing what they had claimed, there was a chance of positive outcome. As it stands, it's in damage-control mode and the only likely outcomes look like bad vs. worse, for us.

I mention all of this to give voice to another demographic. Like the owners (and HOA members) who rarely exchange, we are among those who may not see any real, substantive benefit from this suit so we don't share your high anti-RCI energy. But worse, we even recognize a potential personal cost which is far more likely to actually happen than the risks expressed here and elsewhere if we don't support this thing... as if our resorts will implode as a direct result of RCI's business approach single-handedly destroying the timeshare exchange model. I'm no fan of RCI's or II's or SFX's rental businesses. But resorts fail due to poor resort management decisions and I don't see this RCI lawsuit being capable of directly impacting the quality of resort management.

This view does not make me an RCI apologist. It's just a different perspective that tells why some of us may realistically see more harm than good coming from this class action suit - for hundreds of thousands of owners, if not a million or more.

Some in this thread have tried to paint anyone who hasn't jumped on board as uneducated, foolish, brainwashed or spineless. Just isn't so. And sarcasm or shouting (over-sized, bold letters) from a few doesn't make it so, either. Debating the merits of this suit, which may impact all of us in some fashion, is not hijacking the thread either but rather, it's completely on topic.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Sez You.

This view does not make me an RCI apologist.

Sorry, that view makes you part of the RCI Can Do No Wrong bunch.

Welcome to the club.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Carolinian]

What RCI has done is not restrict trading power. They have diverted inventory to their rental pool. Some very regular RCI searchers at TS4MS concluded from a variety of data that about 10,000 weeks simply disappeared in the recent ''enhancements'', most of them the more desirable weeks.

Using my tiger in RCI to look, I tend to agree. I can see the occaisional gem like summer Paris, summer England, etc. but overall there is a lot less availible in shoulder season and high season now looking with a summer northern Europe high demand week, than there was a few years ago looking with an OBX blue week. It is simply gone. Those who have searched certain areas, like SW Florida regularly for years and recorded what they saw posted at TS4MS that the good stuff just disappeared with the ''enhancements'' Asking others, it was not just their own deposits, but no one was seeing what had been there the week before or anything close to it.

Sorry to say, you're trying to trade a cool, off-season week inland into a high season week at the beach - especially within driving distance of huge population centers. So you'll have a ton of competition for that trade. Won't happen, except perhaps for the early April week in years when it falls nowhere near Easter weekend. Whenever an exchange company permits this much of an upgrade, folks love it :whoopie: ...... until they try to trade their prime week into another prime week and discover there's no prime inventory left because it was all given away to others with offseason weeks. RCI has been tightening the trade power reins, especially in the last two years or so - some win, some lose. You may find that, with diligence in searching daily and watching the sightings forums regularly, that you may be able to do a last minute trade (within 45 days of travel) to the beach, if your schedule is flexible enough to travel with little notice. Sorry.

 

[TUGBrian]

Just out of sheer morbid curiosity, I added a multiple choice poll to this thread. please vote.

*note your username is not displayed publicly in this poll, and the last option was so I can see the results without clicking "view results" every time i visit the thread...im lazy =) but feel free to click it and make me happy!

Also if ive missed a viable option or two, please let me know and ill add it to the choices

 

[AwayWeGo]

Freedom Of Choice.

(and if ive missed a viable option or two, please let me know and ill add it to the choices)

If I like 1 of the viable options that you add later on better than the choice I've already voted for, can I get a do-over ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[TUGBrian]

yes i can change your vote if you send me a PM.

 

[Carolinian]

Where this impacts resort financial viability is through member bailout. Someone with many years of timeshare resale experience in North Carolina told me a couple of years ago that until the couple of years prior to that it was extremely rare for a seller to mention disatisfaction with RCI as a reason to put a week up for sale, but now it had become very common that sellers cited that as a reason.

You have not sat on a resort board to look at the realities of this. I have. I have seen the several multiple blue week exchanger owners bail out or try to bail out (the last one at this resort has been listing his weeks for sale for a couple of years but prices them unrealistically). These people were essentially retired and could travel on short notice and so loved the 45 day window exchanges, until RCI's diversion of those weeks to rentals and Points members dried up the pool they were used to. Their response was to get out of timeshare exchanging with the 4-6 blue weeks they had been exchanging. It is real, It is here. It is happening. I have seen it. It is only a matter of time until the exchangers with 1 or 2 blue weeks do the same. There are more of them and that will impact the resort more. This is a slow motion train wreck that RCI has set in motion, but it is already happening. In the area I am familiar with about 30% of off season owners exchange. If all of these people left over a period of time too short to recycle their weeks to others, then it would substantially undercut resort finances.

RCI has stabbed its resort affiliates in the back. Resorts need to protect their own interests, and that means finding other options to keep their offseason owners in the game. It also means finding other resale options for the off season weeks they get back that does not involve RCI exchanging.

Are a few uninformed questions from owners or a 4x6 card going to move HOA boards that are otherwise not informed on this issue? Unlikely. That's why informed owners working with their HOA boards are important. We need to be proactive. The resorts really don't need to give RCI the total heave-ho. That would also be disruptive for some members. What they need to do is create more competition for exchanges by dual affiliation with II and informing their members about their options with independent exchange companies. And they need to advice their members exactly what RCI is doing with the rentals, just like the Seasons chain did when they unloaded on RCI in their resort chain newsletter over both points and rentals.

Better notice that is much more explicite to all RCI members of the settlement / sellout in the lawsuit will also help get the word out. A 4x6 card is not adequate. Fineprint legalese in not adequate. Clear explanation of exactly what is going on is needed.

It is not about being ''anti-RCI'', it is about opposing rental and other policies that are highly destructive to timesharing. If RCI abandons these policies, I could be an ''RCI happy'' as I once was, again.

So do you expect the HOA's to suddenly sit up and take notice... change their affiliation agreements... because they receive a 4x6 card in the magazine or a couple curious owners contact them to ask how it impacts them??? Will this 4x6 card even say anything about RCI renting out prime weeks or does it just reiterate what it already says in the Terms and Conditions? Do you expect it to make a dramatic difference or is this really just wishful thinking?

As a health care provider, I think in terms of cost vs. benefit, risk vs. gain. I really wonder about the cost vs. benefit to Members with this suit. The cost matters, it will eventually trickle down to us, with increased exchange fees. A one-time $20 discount off one exchange fee can easily turn into a $15 increase per exchange with a premature price increase and we (frequent exchangers) simply lose. We also know that every aggressive action has the potential for untended, negative results.

In timesharing, my family actually likes the resorts, destinations and chains that are affiliated with RCI. We are also among some half-million Wyndham owners who get our annual RCI membership included with our ownership. There are several other chains that provide (free/included) individual or corporate membership access to RCI exchange inventory too, paid indirectly through maint fees (Bluegreen, HGVC, DVC, etc.). This issue is not addressed in this lawsuit and will not change as a result of it. The combination of these factors keeps us (and many, many others) exchanging through RCI.

This class action lawsuit has neither the weight nor direction to actually, substantially impact the availability of exchanges into many of these desired resorts and chains. Increasing dual-affiliation could even result in more limited availability in the most desirable destinations through RCI. So for us and for many others who prefer not to pay the added membership with II, this thing could easily backfire into total, higher fees annually (adding II, increasing RCI fees) coupled with more limited exchange availability at our desired destinations. No matter how it goes from here, it just looks like a losing proposition for us! If the plaintiff attorneys were competent and doing what they had claimed, there was a chance of positive outcome. As it stands, it's in damage-control mode and the only likely outcomes look like bad vs. worse, for us.

I mention all of this to give voice to another demographic. Like the owners (and HOA members) who rarely exchange, we are among those who may not see any real, substantive benefit from this suit so we don't share your high anti-RCI energy. But worse, we even recognize a potential personal cost which is far more likely to actually happen than the risks expressed here and elsewhere if we don't support this thing... as if our resorts will implode as a direct result of RCI's business approach single-handedly destroying the timeshare exchange model. I'm no fan of RCI's or II's or SFX's rental businesses. But resorts fail due to poor resort management decisions and I don't see this RCI lawsuit being capable of directly impacting the quality of resort management.

This view does not make me an RCI apologist. It's just a different perspective that tells why some of us may realistically see more harm than good coming from this class action suit - for hundreds of thousands of owners, if not a million or more.

Some in this thread have tried to paint anyone who hasn't jumped on board as uneducated, foolish, brainwashed or spineless. Just isn't so. And sarcasm or shouting (over-sized, bold letters) from a few doesn't make it so, either. Debating the merits of this suit, which may impact all of us in some fashion, is not hijacking the thread either but rather, it's completely on topic.