UPDATE: RCI CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - must read for all RCI members [Includes Results]

[PerryM]

If Redweek let you search first like II I would join.

RedWeek needs a good kick in the pants - they have for years now.

If the energy that went into complaining about RCI went towards moving away from RCI to RedWeek I'd bet a few kicks would get RedWeek to spend a few bucks and make a better exchange system.

That, to me, seems better than putting faith in our court system and lots of lawyers.

 

[thheath]

RedWeek needs a good kick in the pants - they have for years now.

If the energy that went into complaining about RCI went towards moving away from RCI to RedWeek I'd bet a few kicks would get RedWeek to spend a few bucks and make a better exchange system.

That, to me, seems better than putting faith in our court system and lots of lawyers.

Do you have something constructive to say, if so please say it?

 

[PerryM]

Do you have something constructive to say, if so please say it?

I just did - many here wallow in "RCI derangement syndrome".

The ONLY outcome will be fat cat lawyers on both sides of this struggle.

And you all know who will pay for all of this right? You don't think for a second that RCI or their stockholders is going to pay for any of this do you?

Quit RCI is my advice and go on vacation - use other exchange companies for enjoyment.

But I am no longer a member of RCI - went elsewhere just like I suggest.

 

[Carolinian]

The part you ignore, Perry, is resort economics. Having spent seven years on an HOA BOD, these ARE issues that concern me. One individual's exchanging problem is not the most important thing. On the contrary, it is member bailout of resorts' members who primarily exchange. That can hurt all members, even the exchangers who go elsewhere and own-to-use members. Bailout means rising m/f's, which means more bailouts and evener higher m/f's. This can turn into a death spiral for a resort if not brought under control.

Generally, as a resort matures, the number of exchanger members gradually declines and a bigger proportion of the membership base are own-to-use. These resorts are probably better positioned to resist the impact of RCI kicking the props out from under exchanging as people have known it. But even they are not immune. Members who primarily exchange still make up almost 30% of the membership base of older OBX resorts, for example. A rapid pace departure of these people could still be a financial disaster for the resorts.

One of the problems is that most timesharers do NOT know that they have alternatives to RCI unless they are in a resort dual affiliated with II. HOA's need to recognize that it is very much in their self-interest to 1) widely advertise the alternatives such as independents, and 2) create a further alternative by dual affiliation with II. Members need to actively press their HOA's on these issues. One reason that is necessary is that the most likely profile of an HOA board member is an own-to-use member, who doesn't know much about exchanging or care very much. Many management companies are either in the dark on some of these issues or have some misguided loyalty to RCI.

I agree with Perry that we need to be proactive in getting our resorts to defend themselves against RCI's onslaught through making availible info on alternatives. However, the threat to timesharing is so great, we need a multi-pronged response, and pushing the lawsuit just as far as it can be pushed for members benefit is a critical part of that multi-pronged approach.

Another thing that smart HOA's are doing is actively focusing on own to use groups on resales. RCI has made depending on exchanger-members something like building on quicksand. A number of OBX resorts actively target such groups, such as OBBC I and II with locals interested in using the facilities yearround, Seascape with golfers thaniks to their golf course next door, or Ocean Villas with duck hunters. Given the uncertainly RCI has created about the future of exchanging, it is groups like these that should be the primary target of HOA resales.

 

[PerryM]

Blood sports

The part you ignore, Perry, is resort economics. Having spent seven years on an HOA BOD, these ARE issues that concern me. One individual's exchanging problem is not the most important thing. On the contrary, it is member bailout of resorts' members who primarily exchange. That can hurt all members, even the exchangers who go elsewhere and own-to-use members. Bailout means rising m/f's, which means more bailouts and evener higher m/f's. This can turn into a death spiral for a resort if not brought under control.

Generally, as a resort matures, the number of exchanger members gradually declines and a bigger proportion of the membership base are own-to-use. These resorts are probably better positioned to resist the impact of RCI kicking the props out from under exchanging as people have known it. But even they are not immune. Members who primarily exchange still make up almost 30% of the membership base of older OBX resorts, for example. A rapid pace departure of these people could still be a financial disaster for the resorts.

One of the problems is that most timesharers do NOT know that they have alternatives to RCI unless they are in a resort dual affiliated with II. HOA's need to recognize that it is very much in their self-interest to 1) widely advertise the alternatives such as independents, and 2) create a further alternative by dual affiliation with II. Members need to actively press their HOA's on these issues. One reason that is necessary is that the most likely profile of an HOA board member is an own-to-use member, who doesn't know much about exchanging or care very much. Many management companies are either in the dark on some of these issues or have some misguided loyalty to RCI.

I agree with Perry that we need to be proactive in getting our resorts to defend themselves against RCI's onslaught through making availible info on alternatives. However, the threat to timesharing is so great, we need a multi-pronged response, and pushing the lawsuit just as far as it can be pushed for members benefit is a critical part of that multi-pronged approach.

Another thing that smart HOA's are doing is actively focusing on own to use groups on resales. RCI has made depending on exchanger-members something like building on quicksand. A number of OBX resorts actively target such groups, such as OBBC I and II with locals interested in using the facilities yearround, Seascape with golfers thaniks to their golf course next door, or Ocean Villas with duck hunters. Given the uncertainly RCI has created about the future of exchanging, it is groups like these that should be the primary target of HOA resales.

The HOA should have already set up relations with multiple exchange companies - if not why not? Sure if the developer is still building I understand that the developer is still running the place.

I understand the politics of HOA's - that's your problem and not RCIs or IIs or anyone else but the owners of the resort.

In the mean time quit RCI and use RedWeek or other exchange companies that don't require your resort's approval.

This is the correct way to tackle this problem - more competition.

The wrong approach is to assume that a court has the brains to understand the problem and do the right thing. This approach ignores competition and relies on big government - a losing proposition in the long run.

Now if you enjoy this kind of blood sport then have at it...

P.S.
When faced with jury duty a few years ago I sent an eMail to the clerk of the federal court and asked just how accurate the court was - out of 100 decisions how many were eventually overturned or vacated. This would have a tremendous influence on my verdict and the burden of proof the prosecution had to compile.

Never heard back and got an eMail releasing me from jury duty.

Assume the lawsuit is correct, just how accurate an outcome can you guys expect? Don't put your faith in a highly flawed system - just dump RCI and go on vacation.

 

[thheath]

P.S.
When faced with jury duty a few years ago I sent an eMail to the clerk of the federal court and asked just how accurate the court was - out of 100 decisions how many were eventually overturned or vacated. This would have a tremendous influence on my verdict and the burden of proof the prosecution had to compile.

Never heard back and got an eMail releasing me from jury duty.

In my opinion that doesn't say much for your character.

The lawsuit is about to run it's course, let it go.

 

[Carolinian]

Just the relatively small percentage of informed timesharers jumping ship from RCI to other exchange companies does not help the problem much, Perry. Your suggestion of working within HOA's is much more proactive than that of burying our heads in the sand. The HOA's for their own self interest need to be migrating their members who exchange to other exchange platforms, but with the profiles of people who often sit on the boards of HOA's, namely own-to-use members, the HOA's need active encouragement by informed exchanger members to take the necessary actions. We all need to be proactive in this regard. We need to push the lawsuit, too. Among other things, it helps get more people informed.

 

[PerryM]

In my opinion that doesn't say much for your character.

The lawsuit is about to run it's course, let it go.

I use the same logic when I need a doctor or a family member must use a hospital - the statistics are available for anyone to view. I always use the doctor and hospital that kill the fewest patients.

Our court system needs those same statistics - just how accurate are they? They routinely order the killing of fellow citizens and all kinds of punishment of imprisonment and financial ruin.

Just asked the court how accurate they are in what they do; they didn't reply - what a surprise.

Relying on the judge or jurors for your vacation enjoyment is not how I solved my RCI problem - I went elsewhere. I recommend others do likewise.

I seriously doubt that your vacations will improve with any ruling from a less than perfect court system.

 

[PerryM]

Just the relatively small percentage of informed timesharers jumping ship from RCI to other exchange companies does not help the problem much, Perry. Your suggestion of working within HOA's is much more proactive than that of burying our heads in the sand. The HOA's for their own self interest need to be migrating their members who exchange to other exchange platforms, but with the profiles of people who often sit on the boards of HOA's, namely own-to-use members, the HOA's need active encouragement by informed exchanger members to take the necessary actions. We all need to be proactive in this regard. We need to push the lawsuit, too. Among other things, it helps get more people informed.

We will see after the ruling - how many here will get better vacations?

My guess is that few, if any, will be able to track back a better vacation by what a court rules.

Just take your business elsewhere and have your HOA work on getting associated with more exchange companies.

That's how you solve the RCI problem - not fighting them in court. Only the lawyers win when you do that.

 

[Marvin]

I use the same logic when I need a doctor or a family member must use a hospital - the statistics are available for anyone to view. I always use the doctor and hospital that kill the fewest patients.

Our court system needs those same statistics - just how accurate are they? They routinely order the killing of fellow citizens and all kinds of punishment of imprisonment and financial ruin.

Just asked the court how accurate they are in what they do; they didn't reply - what a surprise.

Relying on the judge or jurors for your vacation enjoyment is not how I solved my RCI problem - I went elsewhere. I recommend others do likewise.

I seriously doubt that your vacations will improve with any ruling from a less than perfect court system.

PerryM, if you truly have no interest in this class action suit, why do you follow it so closely??

 

[PerryM]

PerryM, if you truly have no interest in this class action suit, why do you follow it so closely??

Gee, why would I not throw a life perserver to a person flailing for their life?

This RCI topic has been going on for years now - RCI sucks and we will make it better.

It's not your job to make RCI better folks - either use them as they are or use a competitor.

There are plenty of competitors out there even if your HOA doesn't want to find them. Ideally they would join many exchange companies - the more the merrier.

Too many here are not going on vacation but getting their entertainment from fighting RCI. Is that really what timeshare ownership is all about? Fighting RCI in court?

I've given this advice for 2 or 3 years now - occasionally drop by to watch the same old hate speech and give the same advice - go on vacation and enjoy timeshare ownership.

 

[thheath]

I don't have a dog in this fight (I think that is how it goes) but no matter how it turns out RCI will think twice before enacting additional polices that are harmful to TS owners. Even if the current TS owners get nothing RCI will be out millions. I think that will get the management and stock holders attention.

Allowing RCI to go unchallenged is definitely not the answer.

 

[PerryM]

I don't have a dog in this fight (I think that is how it goes) but no matter how it turns out RCI will think twice before enacting additional polices that are harmful to TS owners. Even if the current TS owners get nothing RCI will be out millions. I think that will get the management and stock holders attention.

Allowing RCI to go unchallenged is definitely not the answer.

I don't think they care about this lawsuit at all - if they lose they will appeal and if the finally lose they will simply go about their business and pass all the costs to the RCI members.

RCI is completely voluntary and you all signed an agreement that lets RCI do anything they want and change the rules any way they want.

There is no way they fear a court meddling in their business - they are too smart and move too fast for any court to have a long term impact on their business.

These are business practices that a court is asked to get involved with - and no one put a gun to any person when they signed up with RCI. I sure don't think they are sloppy and broke any laws - their way of just interpreting their own rules. Of course 100 lawyers will read them 100 different ways; they are not managers of RCI.

Again folks, this is no big deal - plenty of alternatives exist.

 

[e.bram]

1. I think in Wyndham managed resorts the BOD might get some perks from them to keep only RCI because they a tied together.
2. I was thinking of using RW but they have virtually no TS exchange availability within reasonable driving distance from Northen NJ where I live.(incedentally, somehow I got a free membership)

 

[e.bram]

1. I think in Wyndham managed resorts the BOD might get some perks from them to keep only RCI because they a tied together corporately.
2. I was thinking of using RW but they have virtually no TS exchange availability within reasonable driving distance from Northen NJ where I live.(incedentally, somehow I got a free membership)

 

[Jennie]

I was thinking of using RW but they have virtually no TS exchange availability within reasonable driving distance from Northen NJ where I live.(incedentally, somehow I got a free membership)

No matter what happens ultimately with the lawsuit, the "Objectors" provided enough information to convince the Judge that RCI members did not receive adequate notice and information about the issues involved. RCI is now being required, at their expense, to send a better notice to the 1.6 million Weeks members.

The Judge has already ruled that the notice previously placed on page 94 of the Endless Vacations magazine (which personally I never bother reading) was not enough. Now RCI is proposing to insert a 4x6" tear off postcard in the same magazine. I have no idea what the plaintiffs attorneys (who brought the lawsuit) will recommend. The "Objectors" are trying to advocate for much better notice. We'll see what the Judge orders.

But in any event, we hope that this notice will be read by more RCI members, and that various timeshare groups across the country will get the word out. RCI is no longer denying that they take deposited weeks out of the spacebank and rent them to the general public for profit. They assert that they have the legal right to do it.

TUG members are savvy and know this practice exists. But the average timeshare owner has no clue. Once this info reaches them, and articles are written informing them of the other exchange companies available, there will hopefully be an exodus of enough of them to get RCI's attention, and hopefully bring more weeks to Redweek, Dial-an-Exhange, Trading Places, San Francisco Exchange, and the other alternative exchange companies, if RCI doesn't make substantive changes in the way they handle deposits and exchanges.

 

[Carolinian]

Perry, you clearly don't seem to understand consumer protection statutes. The test is not whether a company follows its own rules, but whether their acts or practices are ''unfair'' or ''deceptive''. Hiding things in fine print that are inconsistent with the way they otherwise portray themselves is certainly deceptive. Embezzling members' exchange deposits to rent out for their own benefit is certainly unfair.

''Their rules'' are not something that automatically protect them. On the contrary, they may be a big part of the evidence of their violation of consumer protection law.

I don't think they care about this lawsuit at all - if they lose they will appeal and if the finally lose they will simply go about their business and pass all the costs to the RCI members.

RCI is completely voluntary and you all signed an agreement that lets RCI do anything they want and change the rules any way they want.

There is no way they fear a court meddling in their business - they are too smart and move too fast for any court to have a long term impact on their business.

These are business practices that a court is asked to get involved with - and no one put a gun to any person when they signed up with RCI. I sure don't think they are sloppy and broke any laws - their way of just interpreting their own rules. Of course 100 lawyers will read them 100 different ways; they are not managers of RCI.

Again folks, this is no big deal - plenty of alternatives exist.

 

[PerryM]

Watch where you step...

No matter what happens ultimately with the lawsuit, the "Objectors" provided enough information to convince the Judge that RCI members did not receive adequate notice and information about the issues involved. RCI is now being required, at their expense, to send a better notice to the 1.6 million Weeks members.

The Judge has already ruled that the notice previously placed on page 94 of the Endless Vacations magazine (which personally I never bother reading) was not enough. Now RCI is proposing to insert a 4x6" tear off postcard in the same magazine. I have no idea what the plaintiffs attorneys (who brought the lawsuit) will recommend. The "Objectors" are trying to advocate for much better notice. We'll see what the Judge orders.

But in any event, we hope that this notice will be read by more RCI members, and that various timeshare groups across the country will get the word out. RCI is no longer denying that they take deposited weeks out of the spacebank and rent them to the general public for profit. They assert that they have the legal right to do it.

TUG members are savvy and know this practice exists. But the average timeshare owner has no clue. Once this info reaches them, and articles are written informing them of the other exchange companies available, there will hopefully be an exodus of enough of them to get RCI's attention, and hopefully bring more weeks to Redweek, Dial-an-Exhange, Trading Places, San Francisco Exchange, and the other alternative exchange companies, if RCI doesn't make substantive changes in the way they handle deposits and exchanges.

Sounds like a 4" X 6" piece of paper is the solution.....

All this over a 4x6 piece of paper?

Give me a break.

This has got to be a form of entertainment to those all worked up over this matter.

This is no expense to RCI - they will simply raise their fee $1 to cover this and make a profit.

This is like saying that companies pay taxes - they pass that expense on to the consumer.

Guys; go on vacation - use another exchange company - nobody is holding a gun to your heads in this matter. You guys are just wound up too much over this; no matter the outcome.

I'll ask the question again "How is this going to make your next vacation better?"

The simple answer is you don't know - you can guess but there is no definitive way to know if RCI has installed a new secret policy to do something else that you guys object to later.

P.S.

Companies are just a pile of legal paperwork in a file folder - it doesn't have a soul, it doesn't vote, it doesn't pay taxes, it doesn't enjoy anything, and it certainly doesn't fear a single thing.

It's a pile of papers like a pile of dog poop.

 

[Carolinian]

Perry, there were Delta passengers just like you who tried to pooh-pooh the www.saveskymiles.com campaign and US Airways passengers who tried to pooh-pooh the efforts of the self-styled ''cockroaches'' at that airline. They said it was a waste of time, and nobody would get anywhere against a big and mighty airline. But guess what? The pooh-poohers were simply wrong! Both of those campaigns backed those airlines down on their anti-customers moves in their ff programs. The cockroaches beat back US in a matter of weeks while the DL campaign took a couple of years before it succeeded.

If you don't have the backbone to get involved, don't sit back and criticize those who do.

 

[PerryM]

Hang 'em high...

Perry, there were Delta passengers just like you who tried to pooh-pooh the www.saveskymiles.com campaign and US Airways passengers who tried to pooh-pooh the efforts of the self-styled ''cockroaches'' at that airline. They said it was a waste of time, and nobody would get anywhere against a big and mighty airline. But guess what? The pooh-poohers were simply wrong! Both of those campaigns backed those airlines down on their anti-customers moves in their ff programs. The cockroaches beat back US in a matter of weeks while the DL campaign took a couple of years before it succeeded.

If you don't have the backbone to get involved, don't sit back and criticize those who do.

I am simply asking all those folks here, worked up to a lather, "How is this going make your vacations better" - some real examples.

If you guys can't come up with real examples - like you now will get that dream vacation condo, then what is this fight really over?

The coupons you were offered are going to make your next vacation better?

Folks, you can't hurt a company - its impossible; it isn't flesh and blood; it exists in a file folder.

If you want to take revenge against the stock holders just what did they ever do to you? The mutual funds that own them - the retired folks that own them - what did they ever do to you?

If you want to take revenge against the employees in the company, the mentally challenged guy in the mail room, just how is that going to make your vacation better?

This lawsuit is all about making the lawyers rich - all of them on both sides. That's going to make your next vacation better?

You simply got caught up in all the lynch mob mentality that the lawyers create to win their side of the argument - don't fall for it - enjoy your life and quit RCI and find an alternative. You control this situation, not RCI.

All of this reminds me of those TV shows where the wife is beat around by the husband but she can't leave him. Just leave RCI; I did.

 

[Carolinian]

Perry, why is it that YOU work YOURSELF up into such a lather - and this is hardly the first time - trying to get people to lay off poor 'ole misunderstood RCI?

If we can force them to operate in an honest manner, then certainly that helps get better vacations for those still using RCI. Your attitude, is ''just accept that trade in Orlando in hurricane season or Cape Cod in January and quit fussing about the decent and equitable trades you used to get. Those are for renters now, and thats RCI's business''

 

[timeos2]

You hold the key and it will save not cost you mney

Perry, there were Delta passengers just like you who tried to pooh-pooh the www.saveskymiles.com campaign and US Airways passengers who tried to pooh-pooh the efforts of the self-styled ''cockroaches'' at that airline. They said it was a waste of time, and nobody would get anywhere against a big and mighty airline. But guess what? The pooh-poohers were simply wrong! Both of those campaigns backed those airlines down on their anti-customers moves in their ff programs. The cockroaches beat back US in a matter of weeks while the DL campaign took a couple of years before it succeeded.

If you don't have the backbone to get involved, don't sit back and criticize those who do.

And what was the bottom line result? Has Delta become the user friendly, better "perk" airline the "win" anticipated? No? What happened? Has the "victory" turned sour as other changes - many conceivably due to unsustainable level of "perks" - changed the airline for the worse?

It is tough to impossible to force a business to act as YOU wish it would. The best road is using - thus rewarding- those that meet or exceed your expectations and punish - DON'T USE - those that fall short. If they fail to meet enough expectations then they will change or die no lawsuits or overpaid shysters needed. To blindly ignore what they are doing - especially if it's allegedly causing you personal loss of value - and continue to give them business with the faint hope that a lawsuit or two will somehow correct the situation is the height of lunacy. Take the steps to protect yourself/your resort/business by ending your dealings with the culprits Then, if you wish to stay involved, support any other processes you feel will help. But the number one key is HELP YOURSELF especially when the answer is SO obvious. DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THOSE YOU THINK ARE RIPPING YOU OFF!

I was a top tier US Air traveler for many years and used to purposely route trips to take full advantage of that status and to maintain it. But the negative changes they made in routing, perks, pricing and more made me abandon them for all but the few cases where they offered a direct vs multi-stop flight and/or a better price. That means the vast majority of my flights moved to more competitive airlines such as Jet Blue & Air Tran. Problem solved. And US Air is paying the price in lost business not just from my limited use but from many who have made the same type of "do whats best" choices. If they go under, as is often rumored, they earned it. No lawsuit required.

Problem, for you, solved.

 

[PerryM]

Perry, why is it that YOU work YOURSELF up into such a lather - and this is hardly the first time - trying to get people to lay off poor 'ole misunderstood RCI?

If we can force them to operate in an honest manner, then certainly that helps get better vacations for those still using RCI. Your attitude, is ''just accept that trade in Orlando in hurricane season or Cape Cod in January and quit fussing about the decent and equitable trades you used to get. Those are for renters now, and thats RCI's business''

I'm not defending RCI - I left RCI.

That's my recommendation to all those think RCI is pond scum.

Participating in this lawsuit is simply a waste of time and just makes more lawyers richer.

If you dump RCI then the lawsuit means nothing.

You watch folks - the outcome of all of this won't improve your life one bit; unless this is just entertainment and then it's a barrel of monkeys.

 

[thheath]

Perry, your postings are in effect hijacking this important thread and diluting the subject.

Do everyone a favor, let it go and not post.

 

[PerryM]

Perry, your postings are in effect hijacking this important thread and diluting the subject.

Do everyone a favor, let it go and not post.

So free speech and a healthy debate are not welcomed by RCI haters?

Ok, I've said what I've been saying for years now.

You guys watch the outcome and see if your vacations improve.

As details enfold I will comment and try to instill some sanity into this insanity.