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UPDATE: RCI CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - must read for all RCI members [Includes Results]

Would you like to see a specific statement from RCI that it will not retaliate

  • Yes, I would be more comfortable seeing such a statement if I felt I could trust that it was true

    Votes: 229 86.7%
  • No, I do not feel such a statement is necessary

    Votes: 35 13.3%

  • Total voters
    264

Nikstar

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Wow, this is all news to me. I'm a new member here (and a member of RCI), as of today..& have already learned so much!!
I'm still a bit confused of the entire issue but i get the gyst.
I'll keep checking back.
Thank you for the support and the continued updating of this topic.
 

sailsomsen

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RCI Shenanigans....

I recieved no notice of proposed settlement, although a member for over 13 years. I did recently allow my membership to lapse a few months ago, primarily because I was so disgusted with RCO's shenanigans. Two things that I find objectionable (I was on the board of a Homeowner governed Board timeshare that belownged to RCI. I do have an idea of what some of their games have been.
1. Take a deposited week, rent it out instead of allowing another member to exchange for it. We have absolute proof that this has occurred. We have member name, dates and unit number and owner name (RCI rented the week back to the same person that had deposited it, but the rental came after RCI swore that no exhange was available....
2. Depreciating the value of Weeks memberships, in preferrence to Points memberships. Thus making it much more difficult for Weeks members to exchange.
RCI and their parent company(s) have been responsible for a huge scam for years.
 

Carolinian

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I hope your board responded by letting the members know what was going on and by advising them of the indepedent exchange companies they could use. Also by dual affiliating with II, if you had not already done so.


I recieved no notice of proposed settlement, although a member for over 13 years. I did recently allow my membership to lapse a few months ago, primarily because I was so disgusted with RCO's shenanigans. Two things that I find objectionable (I was on the board of a Homeowner governed Board timeshare that belownged to RCI. I do have an idea of what some of their games have been.
1. Take a deposited week, rent it out instead of allowing another member to exchange for it. We have absolute proof that this has occurred. We have member name, dates and unit number and owner name (RCI rented the week back to the same person that had deposited it, but the rental came after RCI swore that no exhange was available....
2. Depreciating the value of Weeks memberships, in preferrence to Points memberships. Thus making it much more difficult for Weeks members to exchange.
RCI and their parent company(s) have been responsible for a huge scam for years.
 

madex

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Thank you Susan for all your efforts. Thank you for taking the time and and your hardword representing us.


thank you Jennie for keeping us informed!
 

TimeShare Junky

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A hearing was held on June 16th at the Federal Courthouse in Newark, New Jersey. There were four attorneys representing each side.

Shep Altshluler, editor of Timesharing Today Magazine, spoke eloquently on behalf of timeshare owners re: complaints about difficulty obtaining fair exchanges, rental of timeshare weeks to the general public, lack of transparency and oversight of the methods used to determine trading value of deposited weeks, etc... He expressed dissatisfaction with many aspects of the proposed settlement. And he particularly emphasized the lack of proper notice to RCI members.

A very passionate, articulate, and well informed attorney, Susan B. Collins, came all the way from West Seneca, N.Y. (400 miles-she flew in and rented a car) to address these issues and concerns--not as an attorney but as a timeshare owner. Sadly, there were no other RCI members present except for Yours truly and spouse. I spoke for about 25 minutes.

The Judge seemed to be very fair. He is a dignified, calm gentleman who listened carefully to each speaker and asked excellent questions. The RCI attorneys were given ample time to respond and explain their positions. The judge made some remarks indicating skepticism about some of their well-rehearsed rhetoric.

The main purpose of this hearing was to determine if RCI members had received adequate notice of the proposed settlement so that they would have had an opportunity to send letters to the Court expressing their approval or objection to the terms. RCI proudly stated that 15,500 members had submitted the required form by the April 6th deadline requesting one of the token "peace offerings". The Judge said that he considered that to be a rather low response considering that there are 1,500,000 weeks members. And more than 15,500 should have stepped up to claim freebies worth up to $100. if they had known about it.

An RCI attorney went on an on about how notice was given to members through publication in the Endless Vacations Magazine.

Miss Collins handed the Judge a copy of the EV issue and challenged him to find the notice. While he was searching, someone blurted out that is was on page 94. The RCI attorney volunteered that it was also listed in the Table of Contents. Miss Collins pointed out that it was in print much smaller than the other topics listed and could be easily overlooked. She suggested that it should have been prominently displayed on the cover of the magazine. The Judge seemed to agree.

When the RCI attorneys stated that the RCI web site also contained a link to information of the proposed settlement, Miss Collins handed the judge over 100 pages of "legalese" that she had printed out from the link. She said that even though she is an attorney, it was a daunting task for her to read through it all and try to comprehend what was being proposed as the settlement. I later pointed out that many timeshare owners are older folks who are not computer literate and do not visit the RCI web site.

When the Judge asked if RCI had sent Email notices to members, the attorneys said that they only had Email addresses for less than 50% of the members. I later pointed out that they sure bother me enough with Emails trying to sell something. Yet I never received an Email about the settlement. The Judge asked point blank if they had sent Emails about the settlement to any of the members and they conceded that they had not.

One issue in which the Judge seemed to have a particular interest was why the proposed settlement changes would last for only two years. The RCI attorneys spoke in general terms about how their busines model requires flexibility to adjust to changing conditions in the world (e.g "911" and the economy and gas prices, etc...). Their vague answers didn't make much sense to me. I don't think the Judge bought it either.

The attorneys who brought the suit were asked the same question. They said that RCI had convinced them that it would take so much time and trouble and expense to make the changes that they felt certain RCI would then leave the changes in place indefinitely. I doubt that anyone in the courtroom believed that one. The Judge asked about it again and again and said that if changes are needed they should become permanent so as not to have more lawsuits brought after the 2 year period expired.

One other issue the Judge questioned was why so many members seem dissatisfied about the exchange process. The RCI attorneys blamed the developers for over-promising during the sales presentation. They kept saying that they have no control over what the salespeople say and do. They even had the nerve to say that they would be addressing that issue as part of the changes that would be implemented as a result of this settlement. (Yeah, right!). There is not a word about that in the settlement. The Judge asked how they would do it and they made vague statements about holding some training sessions.

When I spoke, I discussed the "incestuous relationship" between RCI and the resort developers and sales teams. I said that most people attend a presentation to obtain a free gift. They did not do prior research and did not plan to buy a timeshare. The main selling point is usually the promise that they will be able to exchange their week if they buy one. They are shown the RCI "wish book" and led to believe it will be easy to just pick up the phone and make a reservation anywhere in the world they want to go. Most are led to believe that the week they are being offered has great trading power, even if it is a mud week in an undesirable location. This would not happen if there was some way for them to obtain an objective valuation of the week and its exchange potential before buying it or within the recission period, which by the way, should be much longer.

I mentioned how Redweek.com assigns a point value to a week before you deposit it. You are able to look through their inventory of already deposited weeks and determine what you will be able to obtain as an exchange. And you can purchase additional points, if necessary, to obtain a desired week that has greater trading power than yours. Redweek does not remove any of these weeks and sell them elsewhere. (Of course I'm aware of other problems with their system but I was trying to keep things simple). I observed the Judge jot down Redweek on his notepad.

But honestly, if RCI did not exist and most people deposited with Redweek (or a similar company), AND Redweek did a better job of properly valuing the weeks, and did not become beholden to developers and resorts, I think it would provide a far better outcome than the way RCI now operates. Redweek would be satisfied making a reasonable profit running an honest business. I'm afraid RCI will never be satisfied. They will always try to come up with new ways to make more and more money, no matter what tactics they have to use, and no matter how unfair or dishonest it may be to their members. When will companies stop letting GREED be their driving force. Hasn't enough damage already been done to the economies all over the world?

Both sides were directed to submit briefs by 4:00 p.m. June 23rd re: the matter of sending first class mail notices to members of the class action lawsuit. Thereafter the Judge will render a decision. STAY TUNED!

Thanks Jennie for your hard work.

I do not read much of the RCI magazine, only when I go on vacation. They should have sent a letter in the mail. I work full time, own a funeral home and manage my own 20 week of timeshares. Their printing it in a magazine is garbage and not much of making it visable.
 

RIMike

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Any word yet from the court?

I read your summation...any word yet from the court?
 

Jennie

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Look on the page before this one--page 12, Post # 298.
 

brianfox

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I've been following this thread for a while now and think it's incredibly helpful. My wife and I just purchased a resale timeshare and we're both glad it trades with II.

That said, we are new to timesharing and II. Isn't Interval going down the same road of renting deposited weeks through their "getaways"? I know that exchanges even for desirable weeks are relatively easy through II, but that's the way it was in RCI...at least up till around 2008.

So soothe my nerves, can someone explain in a few sentences why II's operating model is not something I should be concerned about?
 

timeos2

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No difference but size

I've been following this thread for a while now and think it's incredibly helpful. My wife and I just purchased a resale timeshare and we're both glad it trades with II.

That said, we are new to timesharing and II. Isn't Interval going down the same road of renting deposited weeks through their "getaways"? I know that exchanges even for desirable weeks are relatively easy through II, but that's the way it was in RCI...at least up till around 2008.

So soothe my nerves, can someone explain in a few sentences why II's operating model is not something I should be concerned about?

II's model is nearly the exact one used by RCI - including rentals - but they have far less inventory, don't have the primer of a points based system that allows for easier (and IMO silly) use of timeshare value for car rentals, plane tickets, etc thus far less exposure to scrutiny by the "trade police". If you really want to avoid any unfair use of your time for trade stick with direct trades between owners or the smaller, more boutique type operations like SFX where they really do tend to get a like for like trade and of high quality resorts.

The "take it all" groups like II cannot be picky and the vast majority of what they get deposited is older, smaller, less desirable time/resorts/units as those are what the majority own and thus want to trade. Less than 10% of all ownerships are top weeks/resorts/times and the top 10% as well as the other 90% junk are ALL chasing those very limited times. That's just the way it is and no amount of bluster can hide the fact that very little is really top tier time. And precious little of that gets deposited as the owners know it's too valuable to risk in the "place & hope" RCI/II systems. No knowledgeable owner is going to give that time away on the chance they'll get anything close to value back.
 

Carolinian

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Older and smaller does not equate to less desirable. The best cases in point would be Schloss Grubhof, a small resort in a 14th century Austrian castle and Chateau de Maulmont, a small resort (2 timeshare units) in a historic French chateau that once belonged to the sister of the King of France.

Rentals of last minute inventory or something that would clearly have excessive supply for all possible exchange demand are not at all in the same category as rentals of high demand, low supply inventory, which seems to be a major activity of RCI. Even so, those also can distort a lot of the dynamics of the timeshare industry. Also internal rentals to timesharers of the above type of inventory are not really destructive. The widespread rentals to the general public is what causes the real damage.

II apparently does some limited rentals to the public, but they have never gone hog wild with it like RCI. They are also far more discreet in what they do and seem to not focus on rentals of prime inventory. Their practices are far less damaging.

But,yes, there is a big danger that if RCI gets away with this travesty, then II may be tempted to jump into it with both feet as well. II members should also be keeping their fingers crossed that RCI can be backed down in the lawsuit.


II's model is nearly the exact one used by RCI - including rentals - but they have far less inventory, don't have the primer of a points based system that allows for easier (and IMO silly) use of timeshare value for car rentals, plane tickets, etc thus far less exposure to scrutiny by the "trade police". If you really want to avoid any unfair use of your time for trade stick with direct trades between owners or the smaller, more boutique type operations like SFX where they really do tend to get a like for like trade and of high quality resorts.

The "take it all" groups like II cannot be picky and the vast majority of what they get deposited is older, smaller, less desirable time/resorts/units as those are what the majority own and thus want to trade. Less than 10% of all ownerships are top weeks/resorts/times and the top 10% as well as the other 90% junk are ALL chasing those very limited times. That's just the way it is and no amount of bluster can hide the fact that very little is really top tier time. And precious little of that gets deposited as the owners know it's too valuable to risk in the "place & hope" RCI/II systems. No knowledgeable owner is going to give that time away on the chance they'll get anything close to value back.
 
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JRS

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I have not been as regular of a visitor as in years past, however it would be nice to find out if any news of interest since that original court date in June. Does anyone have anything to report, or have a link to the plaintiff's (class action) attorney's ?
 

ecwinch

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I have not been as regular of a visitor as in years past, however it would be nice to find out if any news of interest since that original court date in June. Does anyone have anything to report, or have a link to the plaintiff's (class action) attorney's ?

If you scroll back a page and look at Jeanie (Post #286), she provides a recap of the current status.

The readers digest version is that there was a hearing last week, and the judge approved the notice of settlement going out again and in a different format than the original one.
 

Brummie

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Yet another sleeping RCI member wakes up......

I am a UK RCI member and an owner at Orange Lakes, FL and this is the first I have heard of all this.
I am fully behind any group wishing to take on RCI and/or the developers.
I will keep an eye out for updates and would love to put my two penneth in if the opportunity arose.
Huge thanks to those who have pushed things this far (doubless at great personal expense in both time, effort and dollars).
I personally would be happy to chip in to a fighting fund as long as it was administered by somebody who had suffered the same pain as those being represented.
If nothing else this might be a reminder to RCI that people will only stand being bullied for so long.
Maybe the US government might be persuaded to look at setting up some sort of regulatory authority?
Hope springs eternal.
 

TUGBrian

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link to the rci page regarding the lawsuit....and per the discussions above...as an rci weeks member you should recieve a postcard and an email with more information from RCI.

http://www.weeksprogramsettlement.com/
 

decolady424

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I just found out about this here, looks like the date (April 2009) has passed to file a claim....are we out of luck???
 

Carolinian

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I just found out about this here, looks like the date (April 2009) has passed to file a claim....are we out of luck???

The class action is a claim for all members.

If you are talking about asking for one of the nearly worthless trinkets is offering in this sellout ''settlement'' that is shooting yourself in the foot, as it will signal support of RCI continuing their malpractices in renting exchange inventory. If you want to fight those malpractices, when the new notice comes out, you need to object to the ''settlement'' and also object to the sellout original class lawyers getting paid anything for their failure to properly represent their clients.
 

Jennie

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link to the rci page regarding the lawsuit....and per the discussions above...as an rci weeks member you should recieve a postcard and an email with more information from RCI.

http://www.weeksprogramsettlement.com/

What you will find by following the above link is the terms of the proposed settlement. However, there may be some changes in it before the new postcard notice is sent out around mid-September. So read it carefully and/or check back with TUG to get further information after you receive the postcard and/or Email.
 

rickandcindy23

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I would like to send a letter to the judge or the attorneys, if someone could give an address. If there is an address somewhere, please let me know where I can find the information.

Elderly people are certainly the victims of RCI. They don't have internet, nor do they own computers; they have older timeshares that are no longer valued by RCI and II; and they are the ones who fall prey to postcard companies.

This is certainly another bit of information that I would like to share. Also, the losses of trade power on 5/30 is another huge issue for me.
 

Jennie

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A small group of Objectors is meeting with RCI officials and about 10 attorneys this week. If the negotiations result in a much better proposed settlement, then each of us can decide if we wish to accept it.

If not, any RCI Weeks member may "opt out" or "object".

The Federal Court handling this class action lawsuit has already ruled that the previous notice published in Endless Vacations magazine was inadequate and too many members did not receive necessary information about the issues, terms of the proposed settlement, and their options.

Later this month, a postcard and Email notice will be sent to present RCI Weeks members, and former members who were members at any time between January 1, 2000 and November 30, 2008. The postcard and Email notices will provide a link to a website containing the terms of the proposed settlement, and a telephone number that members can use to call to have the terms and forms sent to them, plus instructions on how to exercise their various rights.

Brian Rogers, owner of TUG, has stated that this information will be prominently displayed on TUG. Thank you, Brian, for all your interest and support!

If the proposed settlement is not significantly improved, we will offer many suggestions as to how best to proceed.

Stay tuned!
 

unclenapolean

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When I first found out about this suit back in August I wanted to add my two cents but failed to follow up on activating my account.
What I wanted to say was, that the way the attorneys representing the timeshare owners were ready to accept any settlement offered them by RCI, sounded strikingly like a common corporate ploy used to avert having to pay large judgements in class action suits. I know when Prudential was being sued in NJ for deceptive sales practices and faced huge settlement costs John Hancock realized that they were guilty of the same thing, so what they did (and other companies have done the same when they realized their lawsuit exposure) is to contact a lawfirm and have them solicit enough people to participate in a class action lawsuit against the company for whatever legal exposure they (the company) may have. The secret understanding between the lawfirm and the company then is that the suit will be settled for minimal damages paid to the class action group and the lawfirm will reap a nice pay day in the process for next to no work. Usually they pick a lawfirm that is large enough to look like they should be able to put up a good fight, but in reality doesn't have deep enough pockets to be able to put up an extended process of litigation. Add to that the fact the company usually promises to give more work to the law firm later down the road and you see where the financial incentive is to just go through the process and not make waves. Is it ethical? No, but when it comes to the law, if nobody can prove it then it didn't happen. And nobody ever claimed that law firms were ethical, although we do know they're greedy. The proof of this is examination of the judgements in most class action suits that involve product misrepresentations and fraudulent sales practices. In these suits the lawyers always pull in millions of dollars in fees and the complainants get what amounts to a token award. The only time class action complainants ever get any substantial awards is when it involves death, dismemberment, disability or diease. There was even an article back in the 80's or 90's in Time or Newsweek about companies doing this very thing. I thank Susan and Shep and any others that have taken the time, on behalf of all of us timeshare owners, to put the pressure on RCI to either change their ways or at least reimburse us fairly for taking our exchanges and then renting them. I know I was exceedingly irritated when I called in to exchange one of my weeks in Vegas for a week on Grand Cayman and saw a whole list of weeks available for rent online for the week I was looking for, but was told on the phone that there were no weeks available for exchange. Why couldn't they have given me one of those weeks they had listed for rent?
I won't be logging in on any regularity to read responses to my post, but feel free to do so and I'll reply when I can.
 

Jennie

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There are many complex issues involved in this case which I will try to explain in the near future. I, too, started with the belief that the plaintiffs were in it just for the money and had worked out a paltry settlement deal just to be able to walk off with large legal fees and leave the class members with no meaningful benefits. But I have learned from months of close involvement in the case, that there are many other factors involved.

The legal system, as it exists, has many rules and procedures that must be followed, even if it doesn't seem "fair" or reasonable to those of us who view it from a layperson's perspective.

The Objectors met with RCI for 5 hours on September 9th, at their request. Representatives from the defendant's and plaintiff's legal teams were present, along with RCI attorneys and executives. There were 17 people in attendance altogether. All parties seemed sincerely interested in listening to our complaints about the terms of the proposed settlement, plus many other problems RCI Weeks members have about the way the exchange program is being administered. The participants were polite and attentive and treated us with respect. They asked many pertinent questions and gave us adequate opportunity to make recommendations. We tried to convince them that if significant changes are not made, more and more members will likely bring their business elsewhere, and this will have a large negative impact upon the company's revenues.

Within a week we expect to receive communication from RCI as to what changes, if any, they are willing to make to the terms of the settlement. At that point we will have to decide if the changes are sufficient enough to warrant our acceptance, or if we need to "fight on". Our decision will be made with extensive feed-back from TUG members, subscribers of Timesharing Today Magazine, Redweek.com members, members OY, and any other RCI Weeks members who wish to weigh in on the subject. We will try to present a comprehensive summary of the pros and cons to both courses of action.

We will share with you the 12 page position paper we submitted to RCI about a week prior to the meeting. It served as the basis for most of the discussions that took place on September 9th. And hopefully it was reviewed closely after the meeting by whomever else along the chain is involved in RCI's decision making.

RCI has major public relations concerns. Through the efforts of the Objectors, the Court ordered RCI to send out a new notice of the proposed settlement, by postcard and Email, to about 2,000,000 RCI members. The post cards should be mailed out in the beginning of October. Many of the recipients will be learning for the first time that RCI has been removing deposited weeks and renting them to the general public. Unless they see that as a result of this lawsuit, enough restrictions will be placed upon the rental activity, there could be a mass exodus of members, and/or less deposits of good weeks by owners who will switch to other exchange companies or rent their weeks themselves, and use the rental income to rent the week they want directly from another owner.

That's about all I am at liberty to disclose at this point.
 
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