CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[Venter]

The argument for renting seems overwhelming. My question is what about tax. As I read it from Redweek you can only offset costs of your week i.e. MF if you have used other points etc. in your portfolio to stay 3 or more weeks elsewhere. So it seems you should pay tax on the whole rental amount which may not make it as attractive.

 

[DanCali]

So it seems you should pay tax on the whole rental amount which may not make it as attractive.

I'm not a CPA, but it seems that there are also offsetting expenses so you definitely wouldn't pay taxes on the whole rental amount. Maintenance fees, taxes, SVN fees, advertising costs, depreciation of the original purchase price etc.

 

[kozykritter]

The argument for renting seems overwhelming. My question is what about tax. As I read it from Redweek you can only offset costs of your week i.e. MF if you have used other points etc. in your portfolio to stay 3 or more weeks elsewhere. So it seems you should pay tax on the whole rental amount which may not make it as attractive.

It's not exactly the case. In the guidance from Redweek that 3 weeks or more owned at a single property example is about excluding the income from taxation, not offsetting rental income with expenses. Here's what Redweek shared:

Tax Aspects of Renting Your Timeshare | RedWeek

www.redweek.com

 

[kozykritter]

I'm not a CPA, but it seems that there are also offsetting expenses so you definitely wouldn't pay taxes on the whole rental amount. Maintenance fees, taxes, SVN fees, advertising costs, depreciation of the original purchase price etc.

For income tax purposes, you can deduct documentable expenses related to producing any income that must be claimed on the tax return, timeshare or otherwise.

 

[Eric B]

It's not exactly the case. In the guidance from Redweek that 3 weeks or more owned at a single property example is about excluding the income from taxation, not offsetting rental income with expenses. Here's what Redweek shared:

Tax Aspects of Renting Your Timeshare | RedWeek

www.redweek.com

Tax advice you get from an internet site dedicated to renting or selling timeshares is worth every penny you pay for it. If anyone really needs reliable tax advice, they're probably better off talking to someone that works in the field. I've looked over the guidance provided by the IRS and it isn't the most transparent, but there doesn't seem like there is much difference between excluding income from taxation and offsetting income with expenses unless someone is trying to rely on the exclusion for renting a dwelling that is owner-occupied for less than 14 days a year. Not intended as legal advice, but I wouldn't rely on that if it were me given the issues with trying to classify a timeshare in a resort as a dwelling.

 

[jabberwocky]

Maybe we can keep this thread focused on the merger? Taxes have been discussed numerous times elsewhere on TUG and this thread is getting lengthy.

 

[remowidget]

I don't think any merger(as the term is usually applied) is going to happen. MVC will work as it does now. Vistana will work as it does now. It sounds like there will be a mechanism for Vistana owners to convert their week to MVC points and book through MVC. However, no merger unless it is in name only. ie, Vistana could go away and Vistana owners could be a third class of MVC owners.

I think that sales of future products will fold Vistana inventory into MVC. In other words after this happens, you will only be offered MVC points at retail. They will sell no more retail Vistana.

 

[Markus]

Just had an update at Sheraton Broadway Plantation. Was told that the weeks that I had retroed (resale authorized weeks) would not be eligible to participate in the new program, and that they would not be counted when determining my status in the Mariott world.

Unless of course, I took my previously authorized weeks, and traded them into Sheraton Flex! Wow! What a concept, taking weeks that were retroed, and buying again. When the discussion got too heated, the Manager came over and ended the presentation.

Markus

 

[dioxide45]

Just had an update at Sheraton Broadway Plantation. Was told that the weeks that I had retroed (resale authorized weeks) would not be eligible to participate in the new program, and that they would not be counted when determining my status in the Mariott world.

Unless of course, I took my previously authorized weeks, and traded them into Sheraton Flex! Wow! What a concept, taking weeks that were retroed, and buying again. When the discussion got too heated, the Manager came over and ended the presentation.

Markus

Of course this was all said with the intent to sell you something new. Had they told you your weeks would work just fine and you didn't need to buy anymore, they had no hope of a sale. It is all about telling you what you own won't be good enough so they can sell you more. Garbage.

 

[VacationForever]

I don't know how these sales people can sleep at night.

 

[CPNY]

This really varies a lot by resort - Marriott overweighted Hawaii a lot compared to other resorts. Also, "peak" is a relative term because we know that "Peak" at HRA is Spring, but for us summer break often works better.

We really like Waiohai (an all-2BR resort on Kauai/Poipu). 4050 points that I'd get for 2BR Plat WKV cannot get you a full week there in any week of the year, not even Island View. Requires 4225 minimum on lowest demand weeks and 4850 for summer weeks. Oceanview is a 20%+ premium.

Regardless of all this, see the link below from vacationpointexchange to get a pretty good idea what you'll need:

MVC DP 2023 Points Chart

I agree, Summer is gold plus and usually the hardest time to get into HRA due to the summer school break. Yet the Star Option value does not reflect the demand or the Maint fee.

 

[Markus]

Of course this was all said with the intent to sell you something new. Had they told you your weeks would work just fine and you didn't need to buy anymore, they had no hope of a sale. It is all about telling you what you own won't be good enough so they can sell you more. Garbage.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate that.

markus

 

[vacationtime1]

Just had an update at Sheraton Broadway Plantation. Was told that the weeks that I had retroed (resale authorized weeks) would not be eligible to participate in the new program, and that they would not be counted when determining my status in the Mariott world.

Unless of course, I took my previously authorized weeks, and traded them into Sheraton Flex! Wow! What a concept, taking weeks that were retroed, and buying again. When the discussion got too heated, the Manager came over and ended the presentation.

Markus

We will be at WKORVN in five weeks and I was considering a presentation to learn what I can learn. But it is painfully obvious that too many of the "facts" given at these presentations are out-and-out lies offered as scare tactics to sell rather than an introduction to the new system. So why bother?

I would love to give Marriott some feedback (such as its idiocy in thinking the owner of a Kierland platinum+ week would elect points if they would receive only 4050 points -- and why should I bother to enroll in DC given that fact), but it's not worth the effort or vacation time in that I will learn nothing of value in exchange.

So thank you for posting this. It saved me sitting through a presentation.

 

[VacationForever]

We will be at WKORVN in five weeks and I was considering a presentation to learn what I can learn. But it is painfully obvious that too many of the "facts" given at these presentations are total b.s., offered as scare tactics to sell rather than an introduction to the new system. So why bother?

I would love to give Marriott some feedback (such as its idiocy in thinking the owner of a Kierland platinum+ week would elect points if they would receive only 4050 points and why would I bother to enroll in DC given that fact), but it's not worth the effort or vacation time in that I will learn nothing of value in exchange.

So thank you for posting this. It saved me sitting through a presentation.

As someone who owns at MVC and Vistana, 4050 DC points for WKV is actually quite generous, more than most MVC platinum weeks, other than Hawaii resorts. Most MVC platinum weeks get somewhere between 2500 to 3500.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This really varies a lot by resort - Marriott overweighted Hawaii a lot compared to other resorts. Also, "peak" is a relative term because we know that "Peak" at HRA is Spring, but for us summer break often works better.

We really like Waiohai (an all-2BR resort on Kauai/Poipu). 4050 points that I'd get for 2BR Plat WKV cannot get you a full week there in any week of the year, not even Island View. Requires 4225 minimum on lowest demand weeks and 4850 for summer weeks. Oceanview is a 20%+ premium.

Regardless of all this, see the link below from vacationpointexchange to get a pretty good idea what you'll need:

MVC DP 2023 Points Chart

Marco Island is crazy points. Glad we stayed there a few years ago during January via II exchange.

 

[vacationtime1]

As someone who owns at MVC and Vistana, 4050 DC points for WKV is actually quite generous, more than most MVC platinum weeks, other than Hawaii resorts. Most MVC platinum weeks get somewhere between 2500 to 3500.

There are many earlier posts on this (buried a couple hundred posts above) so I won't repeat in great detail.

A 2bd Kierland platinum+ week rents for north of $4,200 -- enough to buy ~6600 DC points through www.vacationpointexchange.com. Yes, it's a bit of a hassle, but Marriott's offer is just too low to induce one to elect points. Perhaps Marriott has concluded that it doesn't need Kierland weeks for its DC members. Time will tell.

 

[wjarcher]

There are many earlier posts on this (buried a couple hundred posts above) so I won't repeat in great detail.

A 2bd Kierland platinum+ week rents for north of $4,200 -- enough to buy ~6600 DC points through www.vacationpointexchange.com. Yes, it's a bit of a hassle, but Marriott's offer is just too low to induce one to elect points. Perhaps Marriott has concluded that it doesn't need Kierland weeks for its DC members. Time will tell.

Not a WKV owner here, but can all weeks in platinum+ season be rented that high? A lot of owners might not be that sophisticated to take the renting route for their weeks, DP program gives them another way to use their ownership (especially when they could not get the weeks they prefer for the next year). To me, 4050 seems pretty fair. (Marriott Ko Olina MV or Waiohai IV gets similar number of points)

 

[travelhacker]

I believe that a 1 bedroom platinum unit at WKV is slated to get 2150 DP points.

I look at the Marriott point chart, and personally, I am excited about the possibilities. I have no idea what the availability would be like but I have been very, very good at adapting to travel to places where I feel like I am getting the best bang for my buck.

I could definitely see me booking 5 nights during fall break at Crystal Shores for a pittance and then using my HRC ownership to add a couple of nights at Hyatt Coconut Plantation.

I could also see me doing something similar with Newport Coast Villas, Oceana Palms, Ocean Pointe, the HHI resorts, etc.

The biggest factor that remains to be seen is how good availability for less than a week will be for me.

I would plan on traveling during the lowest season that would be possible given the school schedule.

 

[kozykritter]

Just had an update at Sheraton Broadway Plantation. Was told that the weeks that I had retroed (resale authorized weeks) would not be eligible to participate in the new program, and that they would not be counted when determining my status in the Mariott world.

Unless of course, I took my previously authorized weeks, and traded them into Sheraton Flex! Wow! What a concept, taking weeks that were retroed, and buying again. When the discussion got too heated, the Manager came over and ended the presentation.

Markus

The part I find maddening is Marriott clearly gave the Vistana/MVC salespeople videos and paperwork with one set of facts about the new "feature/restructure/merger/whatever you call it" while knowing full well that they would manipulate those truths with owners to make sales and $$$. It won't work on TUGers because we talk to each other and can smell BS a mile away but I feel for the vast majority of owners that won't know about the fictions that are being spun to them. Next time, Marriott, please respect us enough to bring the facts to us directly! If it's a good deal and useful to us, we'll buy.

 

[Mroze]

Not a WKV owner here, but can all weeks in platinum+ season be rented that high? A lot of owners might not be that sophisticated to take the renting route for their weeks, DP program gives them another way to use their ownership (especially when they could not get the weeks they prefer for the next year). To me, 4050 seems pretty fair. (Marriott Ko Olina MV or Waiohai IV gets similar number of points)

Not all VSN weeks rent as easy and as high as WKV [exception being Hawaii].
BTW: We rented 5 of our 6 2023 WKV-PLAT+ units for an average of ~$5200/Each [1BR-DX-A: $2400 + 1BR-PR-B: $2800].

Cannot possibly see anyway we would ever elect DC-Points for our WKV even if offered 5000-DCP.
Oddly our 2BR-WLR-PLAT+ units have been valued as 4950-DCP even though it is not as easy to rent and has lower Maintenance-Fees.

Our Presentation
I can't believe anything the salespeople say. At our presentation [Grand Chateau] this week the rep had ZERO info to offer us.
At least he was polite and didn't try to sell us anything.
I watched the entire 15-20 minutes Training-Video with him and the details in the training were vague [and ambiguous] at best.
Some-Notes I remember

• Soft-Launch: March-2022
• Full-Launch: Early-Summer-2022
• Exchange-Ability: 2023
• VSN will stop selling any Deeded-Weeks and stop selling any of the Flex-Programs shortly
• Retros-Reopened: Marriott reopened retro's of resale weeks on APR-14-2022 [1WK: 2500-DCP, 2WKS: 3500-DCP, 3-7WKS: 5000-DCP]
  • Most likely MVCI will offer this as the only option to retro VSN-Resales. This works out to ~$35K-$40K for 1-Retro.
  • If you can retro via the current VSN-Offer [1WK: $10K-Flex, Additional-Weeks: $5K-Each] it is a much cheaper path.
• VSN-Owners: Able to elect DCP annually
• VSN-Owners: Can continue to use VSN as before [including opting for II with MVCI-Benefits]
• VSN-Owners: Single Club-Dues [slightly higher but with many benefits]
• No mention of Mandatory [Direct/Resale/Retro] V Voluntary
• No mention of Eligibility or Enrollment-Fees
• No mention of Fees for hybrid accounts [Direct + Resale OR Non-Retro]
• No mention of a NEW-Level above Chairmans
• No Mention of St. Regis residences
• 3*/4*/5* Mapped to MVC Executive/Presidential/Chairmans
• 3*/4*/5* Mapped to Bonvoy Platinum/Titanium/Titanium
• Harborside & Riverfront will not be part of the Full-Launch. Most likely later.

My Inferences
Most likely we will continue with 2 x Accounts [MVCI + VSN]. The VSN-Account will have the option each year to choose DCP.
There will be NO Combined-Account Status. I will continue to be Chairmans/Titanium with MVCI while wife will become Chairmans/Titanium with VSN [where she is the primary].
We will continue to have 2 x Interval-Accounts [VSN + MVCI] and both can avail of the Single-Club-Dues Benefits.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Not all VSN weeks rent as easy and as high as WKV [exception being Hawaii].
BTW: We rented 5 of our 6 2023 WKV-PLAT+ units for an average of ~$5200/Each [1BR-DX-A: $2400 + 1BR-PR-B: $2800].

Cannot possibly see anyway we would ever elect DC-Points for our WKV even if offered 5000-DCP.
Oddly our 2BR-WLR-PLAT+ units have been valued as 4950-DCP even though it is not as easy to rent and has lower Maintenance-Fees.

Wow! That is great. You have figured the rentals out well. I feel like a rookie compared to you. No need to ever switch to Marriott from Mandatory Staroptions.

 

[Ken555]

As someone who owns at MVC and Vistana, 4050 DC points for WKV is actually quite generous, more than most MVC platinum weeks, other than Hawaii resorts. Most MVC platinum weeks get somewhere between 2500 to 3500.

Perhaps comparing to other Marriott weeks. My perspective is different, since for many years I have been successful at using SOs to go to Hawaii and that was a primary reason I bought Starwood long ago. If I can't even get a like for like redemption using DPs AND they make me pay for the privilege, who are they kidding?

It's relatively easy to go elsewhere, and I've been successful at using II for exchanging elsewhere using my SDO weeks.

If this stops working, such as devaluing the trading power of my SDO weeks in II (which may be occurring now) and Hawaii becomes more difficult to obtain via SOs, then I'll have to reconsider the entire game. BUT, Marriott will not get me to cough up more money to get less than I can get today - that's just a non-starter.

 

[KACTravels]

Not all VSN weeks rent as easy and as high as WKV [exception being Hawaii].
BTW: We rented 5 of our 6 2023 WKV-PLAT+ units for an average of ~$5200/Each [1BR-DX-A: $2400 + 1BR-PR-B: $2800].

Can you let us know your method of renting? Do you use Redweek?

 

[VacationForever]

Perhaps comparing to other Marriott weeks. My perspective is different, since for many years I have been successful at using SOs to go to Hawaii and that was a primary reason I bought Starwood long ago. If I can't even get a like for like redemption using DPs AND they make me pay for the privilege, who are they kidding?

It's relatively easy to go elsewhere, and I've been successful at using II for exchanging elsewhere using my SDO weeks.

If this stops working, such as devaluing the trading power of my SDO weeks in II (which may be occurring now) and Hawaii becomes more difficult to obtain via SOs, then I'll have to reconsider the entire game. BUT, Marriott will not get me to cough up more money to get less than I can get today - that's just a non-starter.

I absolutely hear you. It is good to have choices. But when I read about how idiotic Marriott is in giving so few DC points for a week at WKV, it is about whose perspective. I own in both systems and within the MVC DC world, 4050 is a generous sum. With 4050 points, you can book 2 weeks in April at a 2BR in a small resort in Harbour Town in Hilton Head which we love, plus it comes with 10 free golf rounds per week. We still have 150 points to spare after that. Similarly for me, I will continue to use SOs when vacationing at the 2 Vistana resorts each year. It is much more cost effective than using DCs to book these Vistana resorts. However, if we decide that we need more DC points and that we would like to skip Vistana resorts for a year or 2, then we will elect DC points.

 

[Ken555]

Makes sense - for you. Choice is good, and Marriott (and other timeshare networks) know they can charge for choice.

I absolutely hear you. It is good to have choices. But when I read about how idiotic Marriott is in giving so few DC points for a week at WKV, it is about whose perspective. I own in both systems and within the MVC DC world, 4050 is a generous sum.

Generous? I see that Marriott's Canyon Villas in Phoenix is about the same valuation. The chart shows it costs 4,175 DP to trade to a 2-bed during its highest season. I've been to this resort and given the choice I would rather go to WKV (especially considering the recent access rights limitations to the JW pool area). Even so, this means that Marriott is equating MCV with WKV. Does that mean 4050 DPs is generous? It just seems it's what they've already allocated for a week in the Phoenix area. But I should ask the question - how many DPs does a premium 2-bed week at MCV have for use? Is it the same 4050 as they are offering WKV?

With 4050 points, you can book 2 weeks in April at a 2BR in a small resort in Harbour Town in Hilton Head which we love, plus it comes with 10 free golf rounds per week. We still have 150 points to spare after that.

Harbour Club at Harbour Town is 1,725 for a 2-bed per week. While I don't currently see April weeks available in II for this resort in exchange for my SDO, I do see other months. So, it's not inconceivable that this resort can be reserved for an affordable price by simply using II. Of course, 1,725:4,050 would be a similar cost to a 1-bed SDO with exchange fees. So all things being equal, with no enrollment fee, I would agree this would be a good use of the DPs, as long as that wasn't a year you wanted to go to Hawaii using SOs.

Similarly for me, I will continue to use SOs when vacationing at the 2 Vistana resorts each year. It is much more cost effective than using DCs to book these Vistana resorts. However, if we decide that we need more DC points and that we would like to skip Vistana resorts for a year or 2, then we will elect DC points.

It sounds like you fit the profile for a good Marriott DP customer.