CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[dioxide45]

As a 5 star elite in VSN with a SO banking deadline of 12/31 better not change to the current MVC Chairman’s deadline of October.

I would expect that you can still bank StarOptions through 12/31. However, if you elect to take DC points instead of using your week or StarOptions, then you will be bound by the 10/31 deadline to bank the DC points. If you bank StarOptions, then you can't use those as a DC reservation in the combined program. The best of both worlds!

 

[Red elephant]

I would expect that you can still bank StarOptions through 12/31. However, if you elect to take DC points instead of using your week or StarOptions, then you will be bound by the 10/31 deadline to bank the DC points. If you bank StarOptions, then you can't use those as a DC reservation in the combined program. The best of both worlds!

I was told that VSN rules stay the same only change is the fees going away.

 

[cubigbird]

I would expect that you can still bank StarOptions through 12/31. However, if you elect to take DC points instead of using your week or StarOptions, then you will be bound by the 10/31 deadline to bank the DC points. If you bank StarOptions, then you can't use those as a DC reservation in the combined program. The best of both worlds!

If that’s the case, that’s very attractive.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This isn't correct.

At the 6/20/10 initial Destination Club rollout every previously-sold Week was eligible for enrollment, direct-purchase and external-resale alike. (And with enrollment of external-resales came the benefit to exchange for Marriott Rewards (now Bonvoy) Points, which is not an official benefit for non-enrolled external resales.)

For a period of years nothing changed - and to this day all pre-6/20/10 Weeks remain officially eligible for enrollment.

BUT at some point they introduced a sales incentive, that still intermittently cycles through, that allows officially-ineligible (read: post-6/20/10 external resales) Weeks to be enrolled with the direct purchase of DC Points. Yes, it costs a lot of money to buy DC Points direct, but even some savvy TUGgers have seen value in this incentive and have bought DC Points in order to enroll external resale Weeks that they purchased after 6/20/10.

I don't know what if anything that tidbit means for Vistana owners going forward. I'm just trying to help make sure that everything Vistana owners might want to consider during this process, about how Marriott currently works, is correct.

Ahhh, yes, for a price, which is fine. I think it's fair that Marriott wants to make money to enroll my weeks. That is exactly what I want to do. I want to enroll several at once and buy direct from Marriott to accomplish it. I will absolutely do it. Could take me a while to figure out what to buy to enroll. I have to talk Rick into it first. I already talked him into two big purchases and we are waiting for ROFR on those. He is probably hoping they don't go through.

 

[kozykritter]

As a 5 star elite in VSN with a SO banking deadline of 12/31 better not change to the current MVC Chairman’s deadline of October.

What I would guess is SO's will maintain their current banking deadlines/time periods and when you elect Marriott DC points instead, those points will follow the Marriott banking deadlines and time periods. This aligns with the fact that they're not combining the systems but rather creating a link for exchange between them.

Oh, I see Dioxide already typed essentially the same thing. Great minds!

 

[SueDonJ]

Ahhh, yes, for a price, which is fine. I think it's fair that Marriott wants to make money to enroll my weeks. That is exactly what I want to do. I want to enroll several at once and buy direct from Marriott to accomplish it. I will absolutely do it. Could take me a while to figure out what to buy to enroll. I have to talk Rick into it first. I already talked him into two big purchases and we are waiting for ROFR on those. He is probably hoping they don't go through.

Just be aware that it's an intermittent sales incentive (and that there's the possibility of it disappearing as easily as it appeared.) When the time comes you can post on the Marriott forum to ask if the incentive is currently running and what the rules are. This is a slog of a thread but we try to merge related posts rather than have different threads every time the incentive cycles on and off:
Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [MERGED]

 

[CPNY]

does anybody know when the bonvoy status will update to the new system? I'm excited to have the higher grade and want to book some stays...

Don’t expect too much from that. I am titanium and I don’t see much value at all. The 4PM checkout is nice, but I’ve also received that as a platinum member.

 

[CPNY]

I was told that VSN rules stay the same only change is the fees going away.

Even for resale owners? I’d love to know if resale owners get the perks of the free interval exchange.

 

[dioxide45]

Don’t expect too much from that. I am titanium and I don’t see much value at all. The 4PM checkout is nice, but I’ve also received that as a platinum member.

THe 4PM checkout is nice, but properties try to skimp on that too. One is supposed to request it on checkin, but on our last stay at a Marriott hotel in Tampa, I called at about 10PM to ask for a late checkout. I indicated that our status should allow for 4PM. The person I spoke to said "how about 1PM just to be safe". I countered with 2PM and that is where we landed. Next time we will be requesting 4PM on every hotel stay at checkin. Even if we may be out early.

 

[DanCali]

Ahhh, yes, for a price, which is fine. I think it's fair that Marriott wants to make money to enroll my weeks. That is exactly what I want to do. I want to enroll several at once and buy direct from Marriott to accomplish it. I will absolutely do it. Could take me a while to figure out what to buy to enroll. I have to talk Rick into it first. I already talked him into two big purchases and we are waiting for ROFR on those. He is probably hoping they don't go through.

Don't forget that all you are getting here is access to an exchange system. That's it.... You get to use your week, or convert to DP points - not both. When talking with Marriott salespeople, they will often confound things by blending what you are buying with what you can elect and arguing you paid $6/point or something.... The resale week is already yours and it's paid for. This is just access to another usage option.

Like Flex, any points you buy from Marriott as part of a deal to enroll weeks are pretty worthless on the resale market. You can also buy points on the resale market at $5/point (after the $3 fee to Marriott). So if they charge you ~$35K for 3000 points that you can otherwise buy for $15K and that you can resell for only $5K-$6K that a pretty hefty price to pay just to have access to an exchange system. For comparison, II charges $100/year and a fee per exchange (which would be analogous to the "skim")...

If those 2 big purchases you made presumably also have high rental values, you can potentially save a lot just by renting those out and then using the cash to rent at the Marriott resorts you like.

I'm not saying it's not nice to have enrolled weeks. It is easy and convenient to make exchanges, but at what price? Most of us can recognize an expensive points product when we see it and would refuse to buy into it. The irony is that if the deal was to just pay $1/point for every week they allow you to enroll (say $4000 for WKV 2BR Plat, $8000 for a WKORV 2BR) with no additional purchase I suspect most owners would decline that too, because a comparison to II makes that look expensive (although I personally would like it better). But when the deal is to spend $30K+ and buy a super expensive points product and enroll some weeks as a bonus, for some reason that becomes exciting

 

[CPNY]

Don't forget that all you are getting here is access to an exchange system. That's it.... You get to use your week, or convert to DP points - not both. When talking with Marriott salespeople, they will often confound things by blending what you are buying with what you can elect and arguing you paid $6/point or something....

Like Flex, any points you buy from Marriott as part of a deal to enroll weeks are pretty worthless on the resale market. You can also buy points on the resale market at $5/point (after the $3 fee to Marriott). So if they charge you ~$35K for 3000 points that you can otherwise buy for $15K and that you can resell for only $5K-$6K that a pretty hefty price to pay just to have access to an exchange system. For comparison, II charges $100/year and a fee per exchange (which would be analogous to the "skim")...

If those 2 big purchases you made presumably also have high rental values, you can potentially save a lot just by renting those out and then using the cash to rent at the Marriott resorts you like.

I'm not saying it's not nice to have enrolled weeks. It is easy and convenient to make exchanges, but at what price? Most of us can recognize an expensive points product when we see it and would refuse to buy into it. The irony is that if the deal was to just pay $1/point for every week they allow you to enroll (say $4000 for WKV 2BR Plat, $8000 for a WKORV 2BR) with no additional purchase I suspect most owners would decline that too (although I personally would like it better). But when the deal is to spend $30K+ and buy a super expensive points product and enroll some weeks as a bonus, for some reason that becomes exciting

Speaking of points, you make Excellent points! I told a sales rep once, I’d enroll for some of the perks of being an elite owner but only if it were for a price that didn’t come with flex points. I wouldn’t want to have to deal with more maint fees for a flex ownership that I don’t need/want. I think if they charged a few thousand for enrolling resale units prior to the official roll out date, many vistana owners may do that.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Just be aware that it's an intermittent sales incentive (and that there's the possibility of it disappearing as easily as it appeared.) When the time comes you can post on the Marriott forum to ask if the incentive is currently running and what the rules are. This is a slog of a thread but we try to merge related posts rather than have different threads every time the incentive cycles on and off:
Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [MERGED]

Thank you! I will do that.

 

[Mroze]

Speaking of points, you make Excellent points! I told a sales rep once, I’d enroll for some of the perks of being an elite owner but only if it were for a price that didn’t come with flex points. I wouldn’t want to have to deal with more maint fees for a flex ownership that I don’t need/want. I think if they charged a few thousand for enrolling resale units prior to the official roll out date, many vistana owners may do that.

You can view what Vistana is offering as the same as what you seek.

Assuming I have 6 x Resale units purchased for ~$10K-$14K-Each for a total cost of ~$70K.

OPTION-A: Flex
For $35K I can enroll 6 x 2BR-WKV-PLAT+ units 888600-SO [148.1K x 6]. This works out to $5833/Unit to retro and I accrue ~1-Million SO every year.
This gives me 5* Elite + Bonvoy-Platinum and the benefits that come with the same and possible future benefits of the new Marriott-System.
One can assume that the 100K Felx that comes with the package is a bonus [burden]. I can thus give it away for $0 [even pay a little] to rid me of the higher Maintenance-Fees.

OPTION-B: Deeded-Week
Someone mentioned earlier on this thread that it's possible to retro without purchasing Flex if you did it at Kierland where they were still selling WKV-Weeks.
This would be even better value as you would inherit a WKV-Deeded-Week for retroing your resale weeks.

I know about Option-A as that is exactly what we did.
Given a do-over I would choose Option-B.

 

[DanCali]

OPTION-B: Deeded-Week
Someone mentioned earlier on this thread that it's possible to retro without purchasing Flex if you did it at Kierland where they were still selling WKV-Weeks.
This would be even better value as you would inherit a WKV-Deeded-Week for retroing your resale weeks.

I know about Option-A as that is exactly what we did.
Given a do-over I would choose Option-B.

That was me...

We actually did it while owning mandatory weeks only, so it was quite unnecessary. We would not have done it had it not been for the other tangible things we got as part of the deal besides the retro of the Vistana weeks. It was during the peak of covid (summer 2020)... resorts were empty, and they were desperate to sell. This was a pretty big sale for them. We asked for some things I didn't think we'd get, but the salesperson pulled a lot of strings in high places and made it happen. We have no regrets.

While we were not even aware of the potential Vistana merger at the time, we may now get all our weeks enrolled (some say it may happen for voluntary resorts regardless of retro status). But as I wrote in earlier posts, I'm really not impressed with WKV Plat conversion values and would be very unlikely to use it for point election, especially since we already can convert 12K points on the Marriott side more cost effectively. And Chairman vs Presidential is really not a big deal - the only difference is banked points are good for 24 months instead of 18 months.

 

[Mroze]

That was me...

We actually did it while owning mandatory weeks only, so it was quite unnecessary. We would not have done it had it not been for the other tangible things we got as part of the deal besides the retro of the Vistana weeks. It was during the peak of covid (summer 2020)... resorts were empty, and they were desperate to sell. This was a pretty big sale for them. We asked for some things I didn't think we'd get, but the salesperson pulled a lot of strings in high places and made it happen. We have no regrets.

While we were not even aware of the potential Vistana merger at the time, we may now get all our weeks enrolled (some say it may happen for voluntary resorts regardless of retro status). But as I wrote in earlier posts, I'm really not impressed with WKV Plat conversion values and would be very unlikely to use it for point election, especially since we already can convert 12K points on the Marriott side more cost effectively. And Chairman vs Presidential is really not a big deal - the only difference is banked points are good for 24 months instead of 18 months.

You did well.

DCP-Enrollment
Depending on when you purchased you may be exempt from the Enrollment fee.
I was told by multiple Marriott people [since we purchased a Hybrid-Package from Marriott in Oct-2021] that our purchase would qualify to enroll our Vistana-Contracts.
Not sure how far back they would go [maybe a year or more] to consider direct purchases [Vistana or Marriott] to automatically enroll eligible Vistana-Contracts without additional cost.

Taxonomy [Eligibility V Enrollment]

• Eligibility: The assumption was that Direct-Purchase/Retro-Enrolled contracts would be Eligible for enrollment.
• Enrollment: Eligible-Contracts can be enrolled for a fee [possibly waived with additional purchase]. The fee would be waived if there was a recent purchase [DCP, Flex, Hybrid].
• Resale: Resale-Contracts [Mandatory/Voluntary/Flex] that are not qualified would be eligible to enroll if they were retro'd with an additional purchase [Flex or DCP].

NOTE: Vistana's option to Retro/Enroll resale units [$5K/Contract] is way more valuable [especially if enrolling High-Value contracts 148K-SO and more] than Marriott's option [$35K+].
The other benefit of a recent Vistana/Marriott purchase [preferably Hybrid + Retro] is the ability to enroll eligible Vistana-Contracts into the NEW-DCP-System for no additional cost.

 

[Mroze]

After attending a presentation today [Grand Chateau] found out nothing new that hasn't already been discussed on this thread.
Watched the whole training video with the salesman.

1-NEW-EMAIL was shown to me dated APR-14-2022
MVCI is reopening the enrolling of resale weeks [purchased post JUN-20-2010].

• Purchase 2500-DCP: Enroll 1-Week
• Purchase 3500-DCP: Enroll 2-Weeks
• Purchase 5000-DCP: Enroll 3-7-Weeks

This appears similar to what was offered in the past.
Today's price $15.92/DCP
There are incentives for purchasing DCP's like 15% - 20% Discount depending on #-DCP purchased and/or Bonvoy-Points

 

[DanCali]

Today's price $15.92/DCP

To this I always respond, "If I didn't buy when it was $8, why would I buy now?" --> meet supervisor --> decline encore package --> back to pool!

 

[vacation dreaming]

After attending a presentation today [Grand Chateau] found out nothing new that hasn't already been discussed on this thread.
Watched the whole training video with the salesman.

1-NEW-EMAIL was shown to me dated APR-14-2022
MVCI is reopening the enrolling of resale weeks [purchased post JUN-20-2010].

• Purchase 2500-DCP: Enroll 1-Week
• Purchase 3500-DCP: Enroll 2-Weeks
• Purchase 5000-DCP: Enroll 3-7-Weeks

This appears similar to what was offered in the past.
Today's price $15.92/DCP
There are incentives for purchasing DCP's like 15% - 20% Discount depending on #-DCP purchased and/or Bonvoy-Points

I would like to buy points to enroll my week. Does anyone have a salesperson they like? I can’t stand sitting through the lengthy presentations with pretty pictures, I just want the best offer with numbers to make a decision.

 

[TravelTime]

Don't forget that all you are getting here is access to an exchange system. That's it.... You get to use your week, or convert to DP points - not both. When talking with Marriott salespeople, they will often confound things by blending what you are buying with what you can elect and arguing you paid $6/point or something.... The resale week is already yours and it's paid for. This is just access to another usage option.

Like Flex, any points you buy from Marriott as part of a deal to enroll weeks are pretty worthless on the resale market. You can also buy points on the resale market at $5/point (after the $3 fee to Marriott). So if they charge you ~$35K for 3000 points that you can otherwise buy for $15K and that you can resell for only $5K-$6K that a pretty hefty price to pay just to have access to an exchange system. For comparison, II charges $100/year and a fee per exchange (which would be analogous to the "skim")...

If those 2 big purchases you made presumably also have high rental values, you can potentially save a lot just by renting those out and then using the cash to rent at the Marriott resorts you like.

I'm not saying it's not nice to have enrolled weeks. It is easy and convenient to make exchanges, but at what price? Most of us can recognize an expensive points product when we see it and would refuse to buy into it. The irony is that if the deal was to just pay $1/point for every week they allow you to enroll (say $4000 for WKV 2BR Plat, $8000 for a WKORV 2BR) with no additional purchase I suspect most owners would decline that too, because a comparison to II makes that look expensive (although I personally would like it better). But when the deal is to spend $30K+ and buy a super expensive points product and enroll some weeks as a bonus, for some reason that becomes exciting

This TUG concept of renting your week out and using the cash to re-book is ludicrous to me. There are better ways to earn money than renting out a timeshare week. Just don’t bother buying a timeshare if that is your plan. I think renting out your week makes sense if you will not be using it. Otherwise, it is the silliest thing I have ever heard of.

 

[serendip7]

Is anyone else concerned that allowing top elite members a 13 month booking window will make booking of OF units at WKORV or WKORVN next to impossible at the 12 month mark?

Just came back from the owners update at Princeville. Was explained to us that only a % of the rooms available can be reserved via the Marriott program at 13 months. He stressed that existing options holders wont be affected at the 12 month mark because the majority of available rooms cant be touched at 13 months. The system helps protect existing options holders at the 12 month mark but that also means there’ll be a whole lot of elite members fighting over a % of the available rooms at 13 months.

 

[DanCali]

This TUG concept of renting your week out and using the cash to re-book is ludicrous to me. There are better ways to earn money than renting out a timeshare week. Just don’t bother buying a timeshare if that is your plan. I think renting out your week makes sense if you will not be using it. Otherwise, it is the silliest thing I have ever heard of.

It's not for "earning money" - it's to maximize the value of the ownership...

Of course the considerations are different for owners at different resorts or seasons, but I'll go with WKV 2BR Plat as an example. Come summer, WKV owners who want to exchange to Marriott resorts will have a new choice.

(1) Exchange their 2BR Plat for 4050 Destination Points and use those points to book a Marriott Resort, subject to DC availability. 4050 points is decent but will not get you a 2BR in peak season at most MVC resorts.

But they can still do what they always could do:

(2) Exchange (rent) their 2BR Plat for ~$4500 and use that cash to book the Marriott resort they want, subject to rental availability. $4500 goes pretty far in the rental market.

And if you want to compare which option is better, (1) or (2), consider that they can also

(3) Exchange (rent) their 2BR Plat for ~$4500 and use that cash to rent 6500 points for a single use year ($0.69/point rental rate).

Aside for the fact that the points in (1) and "better" because they are bankable and transferable, 6500 points is 60% more than 4050, which is the conversion rate... 10% or 20% I might leave alone for the extra convenience. But, to me, a 60% "bonus" by choosing (3) is way too much value to leave on the table. If Marriott owners will look to trade into my WKV weeks, they can find them on VSN or RedWeek.

 

[Ken555]

(1) Exchange their 2BR Plat for 4050 Destination Points and use those points to book a Marriott Resort, subject to DC availability. 4050 points is decent but will not get you a 2BR in peak season at most MVC resorts.

How many DPs would I need for a 2-bed in peak season at most MVC resorts?


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[Ken555]

This TUG concept of renting your week out and using the cash to re-book is ludicrous to me. There are better ways to earn money than renting out a timeshare week. Just don’t bother buying a timeshare if that is your plan. I think renting out your week makes sense if you will not be using it. Otherwise, it is the silliest thing I have ever heard of.

You may call it a TUG concept, but when I was in the market for timeshares and wasted my time sitting through “owners updates” renting was one of the main use cases the sales weasels suggested. In fact, they often suggested buying more than I needed and rent the extra for profit.


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[DanCali]

How many DPs would I need for a 2-bed in peak season at most MVC resorts?


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This really varies a lot by resort - Marriott overweighted Hawaii a lot compared to other resorts. Also, "peak" is a relative term because we know that "Peak" at HRA is Spring, but for us summer break often works better.

We really like Waiohai (an all-2BR resort on Kauai/Poipu). 4050 points that I'd get for 2BR Plat WKV cannot get you a full week there in any week of the year, not even Island View. Requires 4225 minimum on lowest demand weeks and 4850 for summer weeks. Oceanview is a 20%+ premium.

Regardless of all this, see the link below from vacationpointexchange to get a pretty good idea what you'll need:

MVC DP 2023 Points Chart

 

[Ken555]

This really varies a lot by resort - Marriott overweighted Hawaii a lot compared to other resorts. Also, "peak" is a relative term because we know that "Peak" at HRA is Spring, but for us summer break often works better.

We really like Waiohai (an all-2BR resort on Kauai). 4050 points that I'd get for 2Br Plat WKV cannot get you a full week there in any week of the year, not even Islandview.Required 4225 minimum on lowest demand weeks and 4850 for summer weeks. Oceanview is a 20%+ premium.

Regardless of all this, see the link below from vacationpointexchange to get a pretty good idea what you'll need:

MVC DP 2023 Points Chart

Thanks.

There is now zero chance I will enroll my WKV week for DPs, since I can’t see myself using them in the program. I’ll stay with SOs as long as I can, and then find something else when/if that becomes unviable.

Or, rent my WKV and do something else as I’m trying to do for 2023 since I currently have too many SOs banked.


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