CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[Eric B]

Yep. They told us that non-Nanea and Non-WSJ would be WORSE than this, as in 1:35 or 1:38. Guess we’ll see when this becomes official.

If true, that would make the “skim” on Vistana close to 30% based on the pictures of the point costs in pictures that have been posted.

 

[robertk2012]

And they won’t have to worry about me buying anything from them.

If true, that would make the “skim” on Vistana close to 30% based on the pictures of the point costs in pictures that have been posted.

 

[CPNY]

If true, that would make the “skim” on Vistana close to 30% based on the pictures of the point costs in pictures that have been posted.

This is why I feel like mandatory resale weeks will be part of the conversion opportunity. Give everyone a taste of booking in the DC Exchange, leaving them wanting more. I think they will get more owners to buy points rather than excluding owners and making them start all over with larger point purchases.

 

[DanCali]

If true, that would make the “skim” on Vistana close to 30% based on the pictures of the point costs in pictures that have been posted.

This is probably far from the actual skim.

I wrote a detailed explanation in post 727 in this thread about how skim should be viewed (and the 1 Like it got was from you!)

Without repeating that long post, I'll just say that, the way I see it, the skim should be computed relative to the average points required to book a week in your season. It would not be fair to compare it to the most expensive week in your season. When you use the "average points" for a week in the season that means that if all owners converted to points then all the points would be enough to book that entire season. Anything less is "skim". Anything more would not be feasible and probably not legal...

Here is an illustrative example for 2BR WKV Platinum. The deeded Platinum season runs from Week 51 to week 21 the following year. The points required to book those weeks are (from what I can tell, based on blurry photos here and I also may be off by a week here and there):

Week 51	3800 points to book
Week 52	5400 points to book
Weeks 1-2	2950 points to book
Week 3	3800 points to book
Weeks 4-14	5400 points to book
Weeks 15-17	3800 points to book
Weeks 18-21	2950 points to book

So, you have 23 weeks in the season. The average points required to book a week in this season is 4413. It converts allegedly to 4050, so the skim is about 8.2%. This would be slightly higher than the traditional 5%-7% on the Marriott weeks.

But note that you can still "come out ahead" if you convert to points because you can book maybe 8-10 nights with 4050 elected points during some weeks (1, 2 & 18-21) in your season. Can you call that "anti-skim"? Not really... - since the "fair value" is around 4413 points, anything less they offer, is "skim".

There are other reasons besides the 8% "skim" for a 2BR Platinum WKV owner to be pissed off though - namely that it's superior to own 2 one-bedroom units over the 2BR lockoff (which was not the case in Vistana) and also the inferior conversion value relative to rental value.

 

[DanCali]

This is why I feel like mandatory resale weeks will be part of the conversion opportunity. Give everyone a taste of booking in the DC Exchange, leaving them wanting more. I think they will get more owners to buy points rather than excluding owners and making them start all over with larger point purchases.

They had a pretty good gig convincing Marriott owners to spend $30K+ to enroll their weeks and buy points at the same time. They may try to do the same now. The difference is that most Vistana Owners are not necessarily starting out as Marriott loyalists, like the original MVCI weeks owners. Moreover, retros in the Vistana world started at $10K...

 

[cubigbird]

This is why I feel like mandatory resale weeks will be part of the conversion opportunity. Give everyone a taste of booking in the DC Exchange, leaving them wanting more. I think they will get more owners to buy points rather than excluding owners and making them start all over with larger point purchases.

They are going to have to churn as they don’t have any new inventory coming online.

 

[TravelTime]

As @sail27bill said, I think people who own both MVC DPs and mandatory Vistana are probably happy about the merger assuming they allow mandatory resorts to elect for DPs. To me, having the ability to use DPs for any resort I want in the new integrated system is awesome, esp if I can book at any of the new integrated system resorts at 13 months. Plus I assume we can still use the VSN if we like that better. I think the idea of “buying where you want to go” was a critical concept with the Vistana network.

I think people who bought places that were cheaper but planned to use it for SOs at 8 months will not be happy with the new integrated system. People who bought at the low MF Vistana resorts probably will not get many DPs. If you own at an Orlando Vistana resort, you will probably not be getting many DPs if you elect DPs. So for these folks, the VSN will be better. OTOH, people who own in Hawaii, St John and probably Atlantis will likely be getting many DPs since those resorts are in demand and come with many SOs.

If you own both MVC DPs or enrolled MVC weeks and Vistana, it is a win win. It will get me up to chairman’s level. It will likely escalate other MVC/Vistana owners to the next level with all the combined DPs.

 

[TravelTime]

Here is another thing I wonder about. Could MVC be selective about which Vistana resorts (whether it’s mandatory or not) that they allow to elect for DPs? For example, MVC has so much Orlando inventory now. They do not need any more. In the new combined system, maybe they will not allow Orlando owners to elect DPs. OTOH, MVC needs more Maui inventory and I think Princeville inventory is also great for them even through it is not mandatory. I can’t imagine why they need to treat all Vistana owners the same whether it is a mandatory resort or now. If I were MVC, I would only let the desirable resorts that I need to elect DPs without purchasing a lot of DPs.

 

[pchung6]

I can’t imagine why they need to treat all Vistana owners the same whether it is a mandatory resort or now. If I were MVC, I would only let the desirable resorts that I need to elect DPs without purchasing a lot of DPs.

You understand this will be the quickest way to piss off 80-85% of your potential customers, right? Either they are all in or they are all out is a well-run company would do. But with Marriott, who knows?

 

[VacationForever]

Here is another thing I wonder about. Could MVC be selective about which Vistana resorts (whether it’s mandatory or not) that they allow to elect for DPs? For example, MVC has so much Orlando inventory now. They do not need any more. In the new combined system, maybe they will not allow Orlando owners to elect DPs. OTOH, MVC needs more Maui inventory and I think Princeville inventory is also great for them even through it is not mandatory. I can’t imagine why they need to treat all Vistana owners the same whether it is a mandatory resort or now. If I were MVC, I would only let the desirable resorts that I need to elect DPs without purchasing a lot of DPs.

Any decent corporate attorney will advise that policies have to be consistent, otherwise they will be subjected to lawsuits. MVC may be greedy but not stupid.

 

[CPNY]

You understand this will be the quickest way to piss off 80-85% of your potential customers, right? Either they are all in or they are all out is a well-run company would do. But with Marriott, who knows?

Segregation was never a good idea.

 

[CPNY]

I think all the complaints about a new integrated system by people who only own Vistana should go over to the thread on the Vistana forum. Please do not come to the Marriott forum to complain. I would not go to the Wyndham forum to complain about Wyndham unless I owned there.

Not sure I have been seeing complaints, I see them more as concerns. People have been commenting on what the inner workings
The system may be.

But you should really stop with the segregation. It could come across as “snobbish” and I know you’re not.

 

[TravelTime]

You understand this will be the quickest way to piss off 80-85% of your potential customers, right? Either they are all in or they are all out is a well-run company would do. But with Marriott, who knows?

I doubt it since it will only affect a small percentage of resale owners and not 80-85% of customers.

 

[TravelTime]

Not sure I have been seeing complaints, I see them more as concerns. People have been commenting on what the inner workings
The system may be.

But you should really stop with the segregation. It could come across as “snobbish” and I know you’re not.

I am just commenting on why I am happy with my ownership and the advantages of dual ownership. I am hypothesizing about what MVC might do. Everyone is hypothesizing. BTW, being a time share owner is not snobbish. If anything, it is embarrassing to admit being a time share owner to others outside of TUG.

 

[TravelTime]

Any decent corporate attorney will advise that policies have to be consistent, otherwise they will be subjected to lawsuits. MVC may be greedy but not stupid.

I agree they will probably do this. I am just hypothesizing.

 

[pchung6]

I doubt it since it will only affect a small percentage of resale owners and not 80-85% of customers.

Maybe I misunderstood. Didn’t you just say Marriott doesn’t need these Vistana Orlando owners and only want Nanea or KOR owners? I’m sure just SVV and SVR combined is already a lot of potential customers. Piss them off on day 1 of the new program is really not a good idea. But with Marriott, who knows.

 

[kozykritter]

I agree they will probably do this. I am just hypothesizing. I am getting a little tired on the complaining by Vistana-only owners who come on the Marriott forum and whine.

This is the Vistana forum thread so better for you to post a message on the thread in the Marriott forum rather than here if you're trying to deter people posting over there.

 

[CPNY]

Maybe I misunderstood. Didn’t you just say Marriott doesn’t need these Vistana Orlando owners and only want Nanea or KOR owners? I’m sure just SVV and SVR combined is already a lot of potential customers. Piss them off on day 1 of the new program is really not a good idea. But with Marriott, who knows.

I’ve been to every Marriott and Sheraton resort in Orlando and my favorite is SVR for the unique rooms. I love the skylights in the fountains sections. For the pools, I have to go Lakeshore? Then SVV, the Grand vista. Point is, Orlando is practically the birthplace of timeshares. Yes it’s overbuilt but it’s filled with owners who will buy timeshares!! Why else do you think Marriott got DVC back to interval! Hey, I’m a mixed owner with most of my ownerships coming from Orlando. Does that mean I wouldn’t buy DC points? No, I actually would…. If it made sense to me and the price was right. I love what I have today and I fear it will change. 90% of vistana owners are excited about the possibility of new resorts. Remember everyone…. TUG members are a step above the average owner.

 

[CPNY]

This is the Vistana forum thread so better for you to post a message on the thread in the Marriott forum rather than here if you're trying to deter people posting over there.

Right! Lol I was going to say that but I’m so damn confused on what’s where when the titles are exactly the same

 

[CPNY]

I agree they will probably do this. I am just hypothesizing. I am getting a little tired on the complaining by Vistana-only owners who come on the Marriott forum and whine.

Only people complaining are the Marriott owners, complaining about vistana owners posing in the Marriott forum (this has been happening for a long time). Maybe the Marriott employee was correct when they told me their owners are “Marriott snobs”. I disagree though, I don’t think they are Marriott snobs at all…. Most just have brand blindness. Where Marriott can never do anything wrong and nothing is better. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Marriott resorts, I haven’t been to one yet that I didn’t like. But I also love other brands.

Have some compassion, vistana owners are the most affected here. Marriott owners don’t have to do or lose a thing, they just get access to what we have had for years. Vistana owners can be on the winning end or on the losing end. There is uncertainty on the side of the vistana owner. I spent 40K as a 22 year old in vistana. I’m entitled to have an opinion or concerns and those opinions don’t have to be favorable toward Marriott or toward owners who feel that vistana owners SHOULD PAY MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE INFERIOR.

Now Considering the only information being leaked after all of these years have been LIES FROM MARRIOTT EMPLOYEES, cut us some slack. Even now during this soft launch we are hearing LIES FROM MARRIOTT EMPLOYEES (ACQUISITION REMEMBER) So quit whining about the people “whining”. It’s extremely elitist, let Vistana owners voice their concerns, skepticism, and fears about losing what they have. End of story

 

[VacationForever]

This thread is looking like the COVID-19 forum.

 

[CPNY]

LOL just like the Covid thread one half demands segregation…..

 

[Ken555]

This is the Vistana forum thread so better for you to post a message on the thread in the Marriott forum rather than here if you're trying to deter people posting over there.

Absolutely hilarious. It’s a good thing we are welcoming to those Marriott owners who come here to complain…about us!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DanCali]

This is why I feel like mandatory resale weeks will be part of the conversion opportunity. Give everyone a taste of booking in the DC Exchange, leaving them wanting more. I think they will get more owners to buy points rather than excluding owners and making them start all over with larger point purchases.

With that logic one can ask then why not let voluntary resales play in the DC too? One can apply the same argument there. Everybody gets grandfathered... I guess that's also possible.

I've seen some of the ambiguous footnotes, but I would still be very surprised (and maybe remorseful that I didn't rush to buy some WKORV weeks this weekend) if they let mandatory resale weeks in. If they do let mandatory resale weeks in and those owners "end up wanting more" like you say, why would those owners buy from Marriott? Those same owners are already familiar with the resale market and know resale points are cheaper and just as good. There is no immediate incentive to buy from MVCI. But if they keep as many owners as they can out of the DC, now they can lure them into a presentation and tell them that the only way to get in is to buy from them. It's more likely to work with Hawaii owners because 8000+ DC points is a good value on all fronts. But would those owners pay $30K+ just to have access to what they probably view as inferior resorts? Time will tell... But the "long game" seems a much more profitable strategy for MVC.

My MVC weeks are a mix of enrolled and unenrolled, and my enrolled weeks can convert to 12K+ points which is plenty for us. My Vistana weeks are all retro'd. Sure I'll be glad if they let those weeks in the system, but given the conversion value of WKV I am certain we'll rarely or even never convert those to DC points, just like we never converted to hotel points (and WKV 2BR Plat has a relatively great rate on that front - 216K Bonvoy points). It's much more cost effective to rent out the weeks and then rent points as needed. And I guess we'll see what happens with the HRA weeks. So the most immediate benefit to us would be Chairman instead of Presidential - nothing to write home about....

 

[CPNY]

So let’s get this right……this thread is in the vistana forum and the title says (Marriott forum). Almost all of the changes of this program are coming on the Vistana side and affects Vistana owners who originally spent a lot of money with Vistana. Apparently Money that doesn’t count, according to some Marriott owners on here, because the money was spent prior for the acquisition.

Some Marriott owners are saying that vistana owners don’t belong in the Marriott forum complaining about Marriott. Where are they saying this? In the vistana forum!! So I’m going to pen this letter to Marriott owners:

Dear Marriott Owner,

Stop being so elitist. Stand for equality and equity. We are all part of the same family. I promise to treat your resorts like I would my beloved vistana resorts. I give you my word that I will treat a Marriott property and employee with the utmost respect as it would my beloved Vistana resort and employee. I will do this because I now consider myself a Marriott Vacation Club owner. You may not think we are, but I do. With that being said, have some compassion in that we are not used to our parent company drastically changing things. We can only go by what we heard you went through in 2010 and the way that sounds, you were all blindsided with changes. As they say, history repeats itself and this is a cause for concern for us. We don’t know what we are facing and We can only go by what we are hearing on TUG and from lies from Marriott employees. I hope you can understand our concern. Again, some of us will complain and some of us will voice concerns which sound like complaints. Remember this, Change is never easy but uncertainty is worse.

love your newly acquired sibling,
Vistana Owner