CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[CPNY]

With that logic one can ask then why not let voluntary resales play in the DC too? One can apply the same argument there. Everybody gets grandfathered... I guess that's also possible.

I've seen some of the ambiguous footnotes, but I would still be very surprised (and maybe remorseful that I didn't rush to buy some WKORV weeks this weekend) if they let mandatory resale weeks in. If they do let mandatory resale weeks in and those owners "end up wanting more" like you say, why would those owners buy from Marriott? Those same owners are already familiar with the resale market and know resale points are cheaper and just as good. There is no immediate incentive to buy from MVCI. But if they keep as many owners as they can out of the DC, now they can lure them into a presentation and tell them that the only way to get in is to buy from them. It's more likely to work with Hawaii owners because 8000+ DC points is a good value on all fronts. But would those owners pay $30K+ just to have access to what they probably view as inferior resorts? Time will tell... But the "long game" seems a much more profitable strategy for MVC.

My MVC weeks are a mix of enrolled and unenrolled, and my enrolled weeks can convert to 12K+ points which is plenty for us. My Vistana weeks are all retro'd. Sure I'll be glad if they let those weeks in the system, but given the conversion value of WKV I am certain we'll rarely or even never convert those to DC points, just like we never converted to hotel points (and WKV 2BR Plat has a relatively great rate on that front - 216K Bonvoy points). It's much more cost effective to rent out the weeks and then rent points as needed. And I guess we'll see what happens with the HRA weeks. So the most immediate benefit to us would be Chairman instead of Presidential - nothing to write home about....

Because voluntary resales aren’t even part of the VSN now. Why grant them something they were not legally bound to? Mandatory resorts legally have to be part of the club and the club has to be part of the network that the operator is running. If the operator is changing the rules of the current network, then the case can be made that the rules would apply to the mandatory resorts. I’m sure others who know more can weigh in on the legality of the mandatory participation.

 

[Eric B]

Because voluntary resales aren’t even part of the VSN now. Why grant them something they were not legally bound to? Mandatory resorts legally have to be part of the club and the club has to be part of the network that the operator is running. If the operator is changing the rules of the current network, then the case can be made that the rules would apply to the mandatory resorts. I’m sure others who know more can weigh in on the legality of the mandatory participation.

Didn't they do something similar for resale Marriott weeks at the initiation of the DC, although there was a higher buy in cost for them? That could set up an interesting situation where voluntary resales might be in enrolled but unable to participate in the VSN, but that might not be a bad "problem" a salesman could fix with a purchase....

 

[Ken555]

Didn't they do something similar for resale Marriott weeks at the initiation of the DC, although there was a higher buy in cost for them? That could set up an interesting situation where voluntary resales might be in enrolled but unable to participate in the VSN, but that might not be a bad "problem" a salesman could fix with a purchase....

Yes, I thought they charged $1500 or so to bring one in to the program. I’m sure someone will correct that amount…it may have varied as time went on, but I also recall those threads about it back then. We also discussed a similar possibility when the “acquisition” occurred, as well as in various other theoretical merger threads over the years.

I’m still fairly sure we haven’t heard all the details of the new program yet. And some of the info is laughably wrong - and if accurate, then something is wrong at Marriott. I’m still amazed they knowingly allow sales weasels to lie so blatantly, but then perhaps the product really doesn’t sell itself at such high prices.


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[Eric B]

This is probably far from the actual skim.

I wrote a detailed explanation in post 727 in this thread about how skim should be viewed (and the 1 Like it got was from you!)

Without repeating that long post, I'll just say that, the way I see it, the skim should be computed relative to the average points required to book a week in your season. It would not be fair to compare it to the most expensive week in your season. When you use the "average points" for a week in the season that means that if all owners converted to points then all the points would be enough to book that entire season. Anything less is "skim". Anything more would not be feasible and probably not legal...

Here is an illustrative example for 2BR WKV Platinum. The deeded Platinum season runs from Week 51 to week 21 the following year. The points required to book those weeks are (from what I can tell, based on blurry photos here and I also may be off by a week here and there):

Week 51	3800 points to book
Week 52	5400 points to book
Weeks 1-2	2950 points to book
Week 3	3800 points to book
Weeks 4-14	5400 points to book
Weeks 15-17	3800 points to book
Weeks 18-21	2950 points to book

So, you have 23 weeks in the season. The average points required to book a week in this season is 4413. It converts allegedly to 4050, so the skim is about 8.2%. This would be slightly higher than the traditional 5%-7% on the Marriott weeks.

But note that you can still "come out ahead" if you convert to points because you can book maybe 8-10 nights with 4050 elected points during some weeks (1, 2 & 18-21) in your season. Can you call that "anti-skim"? Not really... - since the "fair value" is around 4413 points, anything less they offer, is "skim".

There are other reasons besides the 8% "skim" for a 2BR Platinum WKV owner to be pissed off though - namely that it's superior to own 2 one-bedroom units over the 2BR lockoff (which was not the case in Vistana) and also the inferior conversion value relative to rental value.

I found your original posting about the "skim" and this one quite understandable. I like that. My comment was regarding the reported statement by the sales person that Nanea and WSJ would get 32:1 as a conversion rate while there had been previous reporting that it would be about 23:1. The better conversion rate struck me as being closer in line with the point costs that showed up in the pictures folks took for weeks at the Vistana resorts. 32/23 is really about a 40% disparity; allowing for the 8% ordinary "skim" to cover the cost of doing business on a day basis vice on a week basis that leaves 32% to sticking it to the Vistana owners that purchased from a prior developer (or resale) rather than Marriott, who bought out Vistana - that was the basis for my statement that, if true, the less beneficial ration would represent an additional 30% "skim".

I don't put much stock into the reported statement as it didn't seem to have even the potentially fabricated information that some have posted pictures of (see, e.g., the pictures of printouts with generous application of white out). Somebody had mentioned that they had been told they would get 2,600 for a 2 BR SVV, which is close to the 32:1 ratio if it's a non-lock off Platinum Plus week. If Marriott is going to be valuing Orlando weeks that highly it strikes me that the reported 23:1 ratio for WSJ would be more appropriate, especially considering that they could rent out the weeks at a much higher rack rate - I'm in a WSJ 1 BR right now where the posted room rate per day is $1,200 and I've seen reports that Marriott charges $7,000 per week on their web site. I believe that Marriott is a profit-driven corporation after all, the business of business being business, so would conclude that the sales discussion that I reacted to was either puffery or deception by someone trying to make a sale.

BTW, the potential for Marriott to rent out or otherwise use high demand weeks deposited by resale owners (who would be more likely to acquire high demand weeks given the fact that they are more likely to be well informed than a retail owner) strikes me as something that could provide adequate motivation for Marriott to allow resale owners to enroll the weeks. For a profit-driven corporation (i.e., any corporation in the timeshare business that is able to survive the current consolidations), even the lower margin sides of the business should matter - if they could generate $7,000 for a week that I've paid ~$2,000-2,500 in maintenance fees and taxes on in exchange for staying elsewhere, and generate potential sales from whoever does stay in the resale week I convert to points they are ahead by a fair amount and have generated goodwill by treating me well.

Just my thoughts on the subject. I'm sure they've run the numbers and come to their own conclusions on options like leaving out resale owners so that they either use or rent out their weeks. I can live with it either way - it isn't an issue for me at all if they wind up never allowing me to convert my ownership into Bonvoy points.

 

[DanCali]

Because voluntary resales aren’t even part of the VSN now. Why grant them something they were not legally bound to? Mandatory resorts legally have to be part of the club and the club has to be part of the network that the operator is running. If the operator is changing the rules of the current network, then the case can be made that the rules would apply to the mandatory resorts. I’m sure others who know more can weigh in on the legality of the mandatory participation.

Ok - but taking that a step further that implies future resales can also participate. Would anyone still buy points from Marriott then when you can buy a Hawaii or WKV week instead for much lower upfront cost and MFs, and then use it as if it were points?

Treating "mandatory" as in the past would cause real issue for future sales.

 

[tamu_bu]

I found your original posting about the "skim" and this one quite understandable. I like that. My comment was regarding the reported statement by the sales person that Nanea and WSJ would get 32:1 as a conversion rate while there had been previous reporting that it would be about 23:1. The better conversion rate struck me as being closer in line with the point costs that showed up in the pictures folks took for weeks at the Vistana resorts. 32/23 is really about a 40% disparity; allowing for the 8% ordinary "skim" to cover the cost of doing business on a day basis vice on a week basis that leaves 32% to sticking it to the Vistana owners that purchased from a prior developer (or resale) rather than Marriott, who bought out Vistana - that was the basis for my statement that, if true, the less beneficial ration would represent an additional 30% "skim".

I don't put much stock into the reported statement as it didn't seem to have even the potentially fabricated information that some have posted pictures of (see, e.g., the pictures of printouts with generous application of white out). Somebody had mentioned that they had been told they would get 2,600 for a 2 BR SVV, which is close to the 32:1 ratio if it's a non-lock off Platinum Plus week. If Marriott is going to be valuing Orlando weeks that highly it strikes me that the reported 23:1 ratio for WSJ would be more appropriate, especially considering that they could rent out the weeks at a much higher rack rate - I'm in a WSJ 1 BR right now where the posted room rate per day is $1,200 and I've seen reports that Marriott charges $7,000 per week on their web site. I believe that Marriott is a profit-driven corporation after all, the business of business being business, so would conclude that the sales discussion that I reacted to was either puffery or deception by someone trying to make a sale.

BTW, the potential for Marriott to rent out or otherwise use high demand weeks deposited by resale owners (who would be more likely to acquire high demand weeks given the fact that they are more likely to be well informed than a retail owner) strikes me as something that could provide adequate motivation for Marriott to allow resale owners to enroll the weeks. For a profit-driven corporation (i.e., any corporation in the timeshare business that is able to survive the current consolidations), even the lower margin sides of the business should matter - if they could generate $7,000 for a week that I've paid ~$2,000-2,500 in maintenance fees and taxes on in exchange for staying elsewhere, and generate potential sales from whoever does stay in the resale week I convert to points they are ahead by a fair amount and have generated goodwill by treating me well.

Just my thoughts on the subject. I'm sure they've run the numbers and come to their own conclusions on options like leaving out resale owners so that they either use or rent out their weeks. I can live with it either way - it isn't an issue for me at all if they wind up never allowing me to convert my ownership into Bonvoy points.

A lot of sense in your post. Plus, extra credit for the use of "puffery". I shall begin using that description in the many hyperbolic areas of life.

 

[SueDonJ]

Maybe I misunderstood. Didn’t you just say Marriott doesn’t need these Vistana Orlando owners and only want Nanea or KOR owners? I’m sure just SVV and SVR combined is already a lot of potential customers. Piss them off on day 1 of the new program is really not a good idea. But with Marriott, who knows.

"But with Marriott, who knows?" Come on!! I get if Marriott isn't your thing but this is such an extreme criticism. They didn't get to be as successful a company as they are by being bad actors, and it's preposterous to think that they'll be looking to deliberately piss off potential customers just because they can.

As for Marriott inviting only the highest-demand/highest-points-value intervals to play in the sandbox, as far as we know there is only one US-based MVC interval that does not have a DC Points election value - it's the Summit Watch Bronze season Weeks (what are called "Bonus Time" on the resort's seasonal calendar.) They never explained why they were excluded but this particular interval has a history of being an oddity going back much further than the 2010 DC inception. If I'm remembering correctly there was something about these limited Weeks being held back by Marriott as rentals but when that didn't go well they released them to the HOA to sell them? I don't remember exactly but it was odd. So I would guess that the reason this one interval doesn't have a DC Points election value has nothing to do with its value relative to other Marriott Weeks, and everything to do with its original legal structures being different from every other Week in the system. If any US-based Vistana Weeks/Points are one-off oddities from the norm maybe you'll see the same zero DC Points election values but otherwise, I wouldn't expect any.

Non-US-based resorts are a different animal altogether and I'd expect delays there for a while, again due to the legal structures at origination but also due to local regulatory authorities and requirements.

 

[pchung6]

If any US-based Vistana Weeks/Points are one-off oddities from the norm maybe you'll see the same zero DC Points election values but otherwise, I wouldn't expect any.

That's exactly what I mean "with Marriott, who knows."

 

[SueDonJ]

So let’s get this right……this thread is in the vistana forum and the title says (Marriott forum). Almost all of the changes of this program are coming on the Vistana side and affects Vistana owners who originally spent a lot of money with Vistana. Apparently Money that doesn’t count, according to some Marriott owners on here, because the money was spent prior for the acquisition.

Some Marriott owners are saying that vistana owners don’t belong in the Marriott forum complaining about Marriott. Where are they saying this? In the vistana forum!! So I’m going to pen this letter to Marriott owners:

Dear Marriott Owner,

Stop being so elitist. Stand for equality and equity. We are all part of the same family. I promise to treat your resorts like I would my beloved vistana resorts. I give you my word that I will treat a Marriott property and employee with the utmost respect as it would my beloved Vistana resort and employee. I will do this because I now consider myself a Marriott Vacation Club owner. You may not think we are, but I do. With that being said, have some compassion in that we are not used to our parent company drastically changing things. We can only go by what we heard you went through in 2010 and the way that sounds, you were all blindsided with changes. As they say, history repeats itself and this is a cause for concern for us. We don’t know what we are facing and We can only go by what we are hearing on TUG and from lies from Marriott employees. I hope you can understand our concern. Again, some of us will complain and some of us will voice concerns which sound like complaints. Remember this, Change is never easy but uncertainty is worse.

love your newly acquired sibling,
Vistana Owner

As moderator of the Marriott forum I responded to a few posts in that forum's similar thread yesterday and said that anybody is allowed to post in either of the threads dedicated to this topic, on this forum or that one, and that we are actually encouraging both Vistana and Marriott owners/members to participate. Yes, the history of the DC rollout for Marriott owners in 2010 was very confusing, some would say deliberately made more so by Marriott , but many of us who slogged through it from the beginning know that without TUG we wouldn't have had a chance in hell of learning what we needed to learn as quickly as we had.

It also is basic human nature that uncertainty breeds negativity. Vistana people* are entitled to feel negatively towards Marriott Vacations Worldwide right now. Maybe it'll help to remember that during the years of speculation leading up to the 2010 DC rollout, there were plenty of Marriott owners who were only too happy to trash Marriott to kingdom come based only on what what people thought *might* happen or *could* happen. There's nothing a Vistana person* might say about Marriott now that hasn't already been said by a Marriott person.* In the end the only thing that will turn some of that negativity into positivity is when Vistana owners choose to join whatever Marriott offers them and then they share their experiences with how it's working. I'm certain that will happen - of course maybe not for all Vistana owners, maybe not even a majority of the Vistana people* on TUG, but it will happen. Marriott is a good company with good products, and they're not stupid.

Now this Marriott v. Vistana competitive nonsense of insulting each other needs to stop. The claims that only certain people/topics can be posted in each/both of these similar threads needs to stop. If you have a problem with a certain post then hit the "Report" button and let the mods/Admin deal with it. If you feel the need to defend your preference for one company over the other, feel free. If you feel the need to defend one company's products over the other, have at it. Just stop picking at each other.

* (The other day there was a comment about how it's divisive to say "Marriott people" or "Vistana people" - I have always used those terms to refer to the people who usually frequent one or the other of the TUG Marriott and Vistana forums, same as I use "Wyndham people, Disney people" etc. That's it, no divisiveness or insult intended.)

 

[SueDonJ]

That's exactly what I mean "with Marriott, who knows."

Summit Watch Bronze Weeks were a known oddity long before the DC inception. Are you saying there are similar US-based oddities in the Vistana system, so you're expecting Marriott to do something differently with them? I just don't understand the "who knows" thing, considering that there's a history and a very good working knowledge of the Destination Club on TUG. I would think that'll help right now to try to pinpoint where one-offs might happen, without having to expect that Marriott will make up oddities out of thin air.

 

[CPNY]

Ok - but taking that a step further that implies future resales can also participate. Would anyone still buy points from Marriott then when you can buy a Hawaii or WKV week instead for much lower upfront cost and MFs, and then use it as if it were points?

Treating "mandatory" as in the past would cause real issue for future sales.

Valid point and for that reason they probably won’t allow mandatory resales to participate the same way mandatory resales don’t convert to bonvoy points.

if they did allow mandatory in even in future resales then the resale market would explode. Who knows, maybe they will charge $3 per point in the amount that your ownerships convert to in order to participate like they do on resaleDC points now

 

[pchung6]

Valid point and for that reason they probably won’t allow mandatory resales to participate the same way mandatory resales don’t convert to bonvoy points.

if they did allow mandatory in even in future resales then the resale market would explode. Who knows, maybe they will charge $3 per point in the amount that your ownerships convert to in order to participate like they do on resaleDC points now

Deleted! Duplicated.

 

[pchung6]

Summit Watch Bronze Weeks were a known oddity long before the DC inception. Are you saying there are similar US-based oddities in the Vistana system, so you're expecting Marriott to do something differently with them? I just don't understand the "who knows" thing, considering that there's a history and a very good working knowledge of the Destination Club on TUG. I would think that'll help right now to try to pinpoint where one-offs might happen, without having to expect that Marriott will make up oddities out of thin air.

Maybe it is the concerns we still don’t know about the allowance of enrollment for mandatory and voluntary, or maybe only apply to few resorts? Who knows. Hope it will be the positive side for Vistana owners.

 

[SueDonJ]

Yes, I thought they charged $1500 or so to bring one in to the program. I’m sure someone will correct that amount…it may have varied as time went on, but I also recall those threads about it back then. We also discussed a similar possibility when the “acquisition” occurred, as well as in various other theoretical merger threads over the years.

I’m still fairly sure we haven’t heard all the details of the new program yet. And some of the info is laughably wrong - and if accurate, then something is wrong at Marriott. I’m still amazed they knowingly allow sales weasels to lie so blatantly, but then perhaps the product really doesn’t sell itself at such high prices.


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Trying to be as brief as possible here (which you all know is difficult for me ) -

At the Destination Club rollout on 6/20/10 it was announced through a blurb on the newly-revamped website that went live at midnight:
- that sales of all US-based Weeks were ceased and that only DC Points were being sold at US-based sales offices;
- that every Week* that had been sold prior to that point, direct or external resales, was eligible for DC enrollment subject to a sliding scale one-time Enrollment Fee (ranging from $595 for a single direct-purchase Week to $1,995 for multiple Weeks including any external resale-purchase);
- that all future external-resale Weeks would not be eligible for enrollment.

*except, it turned out, the odd Summit Watch Bronze (Bonus) season Weeks mentioned previously

The official rules are still:
- that external resales purchased after 6/20/10 are not eligible for DC enrollment BUT there are intermittent sales incentives that allow enrollment of officially-ineligible Weeks with a purchase of DC Points;
- that the Enrollment Fee is $2,395 for all eligible Weeks BUT it can be waived in certain situations including a mandatory viewing of webinars.

 

[TravelTime]

Maybe I misunderstood. Didn’t you just say Marriott doesn’t need these Vistana Orlando owners and only want Nanea or KOR owners? I’m sure just SVV and SVR combined is already a lot of potential customers. Piss them off on day 1 of the new program is really not a good idea. But with Marriott, who knows.

What I was thinking is that the Orlando/Vistana resale owners would be a small percentage of total Marriott owners. Wouldn’t many of Orlando/Vistana owners have purchased direct from Vistana? If so, they are not affected since they are all qualified.

 

[dioxide45]

The official rules are still:
- that external resales purchased after 6/20/10 are not eligible for DC enrollment BUT there are intermittent sales incentives that allow enrollment of officially-ineligible Weeks with a purchase of DC Points;
- that the Enrollment Fee is $2,395 for all eligible Weeks BUT it can be waived in certain situations including a mandatory viewing of webinars.

At some point it looks like MVC changed their pricing back to the original prices of $595/$695 for direct purchasers and $1495/$1995 for resale. Looking online those are the prices I see. No more the $2,395 price for all. I suspect free enrollment is still available for webinars and certain owner update incentives.

 

[WatsonC2]

Valid point and for that reason they probably won’t allow mandatory resales to participate the same way mandatory resales don’t convert to bonvoy points.

if they did allow mandatory in even in future resales then the resale market would explode. Who knows, maybe they will charge $3 per point in the amount that your ownerships convert to in order to participate like they do on resaleDC points now

They will need participation to gain the inventory needed. I see several levers they could pull 1. the price to enroll 2. the exchange rate given to encourage enrollment. 3. resale vs developer enrollment restrictions 4. mandatory vs voluntary enrollment restrictions, but more likely this resort but not that resort. I would add that whatever they elect to do initially can change based on their success in getting the participation they require to get said inventory. Soft roll outs are a common mechanism to test the waters and I would expect some changes.

 

[TravelTime]

Only people complaining are the Marriott owners, complaining about vistana owners posing in the Marriott forum (this has been happening for a long time). Maybe the Marriott employee was correct when they told me their owners are “Marriott snobs”. I disagree though, I don’t think they are Marriott snobs at all…. Most just have brand blindness. Where Marriott can never do anything wrong and nothing is better. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Marriott resorts, I haven’t been to one yet that I didn’t like. But I also love other brands.

Have some compassion, vistana owners are the most affected here. Marriott owners don’t have to do or lose a thing, they just get access to what we have had for years. Vistana owners can be on the winning end or on the losing end. There is uncertainty on the side of the vistana owner. I spent 40K as a 22 year old in vistana. I’m entitled to have an opinion or concerns and those opinions don’t have to be favorable toward Marriott or toward owners who feel that vistana owners SHOULD PAY MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE INFERIOR.

Now Considering the only information being leaked after all of these years have been LIES FROM MARRIOTT EMPLOYEES, cut us some slack. Even now during this soft launch we are hearing LIES FROM MARRIOTT EMPLOYEES (ACQUISITION REMEMBER) So quit whining about the people “whining”. It’s extremely elitist, let Vistana owners voice their concerns, skepticism, and fears about losing what they have. End of story

Okay I got confused. It says Marriott Forum and I missed that it says Vistana re the thread link.

I am a Vistana owner and a Marriott owner. I think dual owners of MVC DPs and Vistana mandatory resorts may have a better insight into this issue since we are familiar with both programs. I was not happy as a MVC resale week owner so I enrolled my week and now I am happy.

If MVC allows mandatory Vistana owners to access the DP program for no or low fee, this is a win win to me. Hopefully this is not a snobbish thing to say. It is what I feel about my potential membership options. I am not sure how much I would be willing to pay to enroll my Vistana week but I might be willing to pay more than just a “low” fee depending on the options and what it would get me. Hopefully it is a free or low fee option. That would be the best of all worlds.

 

[TravelTime]

Absolutely hilarious. It’s a good thing we are welcoming to those Marriott owners who come here to complain…about us!


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I am a Vistana owner who happens to own MVC DPs also.

 

[TravelTime]

This is why I feel like mandatory resale weeks will be part of the conversion opportunity. Give everyone a taste of booking in the DC Exchange, leaving them wanting more. I think they will get more owners to buy points rather than excluding owners and making them start all over with larger point purchases.

I also think mandatory Vistana resale owners will be part of the conversion opportunity. OTOH, I wonder how many mandatory Vistana resale owners there are. Do many people buy resale compared to direct? I wonder what percentage of total Vistana owners are mandatory resale owners or even Vistana resale owners of any type.

 

[CPNY]

Okay I got confused. It says Marriott Forum and I missed that it says Vistana re the thread link.

I am a Vistana owner and a Marriott owner. I think dual owners of MVC DPs and Vistana mandatory resorts may have a better insight into this issue since we are familiar with both programs. I was not happy as a MVC resale week owner so I enrolled my week and now I am happy.

If MVC allows mandatory Vistana owners to access the DP program for no or low fee, this is a win win to me. Hopefully this is not a snobbish thing to say. It is what I feel about my potential membership options. I am not sure how much I would be willing to pay to enroll my Vistana week but I might be willing to pay more than just a “low” fee depending on the options and what it would get me. Hopefully it is a free or low fee option. That would be the best of all worlds.

I’d pay a low fee to enroll my resale weeks for the best of both worlds. I’m not opposed to booking in the DC if eligible and if my units get me enough points for multiple weeks like I can get in the VSN now. If I am not eligible through my resale weeks, then I continue to use what I have until it’s becomes hard to do. I think it will take a few years before the VSN becomes more difficult based on the amount of people converting. When that happens, I’ll also look toward interval for exchanges. As we have seen, interval can be an excellent vehicle for great weeks. I’ve stayed at many Marriott resorts that I cannot wait to go back to. There are plenty that I’d hope I’m able to visit.

 

[CPNY]

I also think mandatory Vistana resale owners will be part of the conversion opportunity. OTOH, I wonder how many mandatory Vistana resale owners there are. Do many people buy resale compared to direct? I wonder what percentage of total Vistana owners are mandatory resale owners or even Vistana resale owners of any type.

I’d think the resale owners are low in the grand scheme of things. There are so many owners who buy on these updates and sales presentations that never bother to check places like TUG or social media until it’s too late to rescind. I really don’t know how it will shake out. The new VSN/Club dues chart is what’s throwing me. It says all VSN members will pay the new fee, that leads me to believe that mandatory resale owners will pay that new fee as well. Even if we cannot convert to DC points, having the other fees like banking and II exchange fees removed would be a huge win. Most of us with two mandatory resale ownerships are paying that same club dues now in the form of the VSN fees on the 1st and 2nd ownerships. That’s how I think it will happen. We will pay the new club dues and get those other fees taken away. We just won’t have the ability to convert to DC points the same way we cannot convert to Bonvoy points unless we enroll fully into the network.

 

[SueDonJ]

At some point it looks like MVC changed their pricing back to the original prices of $595/$695 for direct purchasers and $1495/$1995 for resale. Looking online those are the prices I see. No more the $2,395 price for all. I suspect free enrollment is still available for webinars and certain owner update incentives.

!!

I feel like this (link to pricing page on owners.marriottvacationclub.com page which may require sign-in) is a recent change, and now I'm wondering if it signifies that there will be Enrollment Fees for eligible Vistana Weeks? (I've already said that if not, my question sent to MVW higher-ups will be why not, if there is still an official Enrollment Fee for Marriott Weeks?)

Hmmmmm. I'm making a note to watch this before editing the Points FAQ.

 

[TravelTime]

I’d pay a low fee to enroll my resale weeks for the best of both worlds. I’m not opposed to booking in the DC if eligible and if my units get me enough points for multiple weeks like I can get in the VSN now. If I am not eligible through my resale weeks, then I continue to use what I have until it’s becomes hard to do. I think it will take a few years before the VSN becomes more difficult based on the amount of people converting. When that happens, I’ll also look toward interval for exchanges. As we have seen, interval can be an excellent vehicle for great weeks. I’ve stayed at many Marriott resorts that I cannot wait to go back to. There are plenty that I’d hope I’m able to visit.

I guess I am not worried as to whether MVC allows me to enroll my Vistana week or not. I feel my Vistana week is only worthwhile if I can book my week where I own. I am not into Interval or Star Options. I lost 81,000 SOs last year because I did not want to travel anywhere I could book with SOs. So now I think SOs are useless.

I did not realize it would be hard to use SOs if I did not book my home resort in the year the home resort is eligible. There was one year where I was able to use SOs to book at WKOVR oceanfront instead of my home resort of WKOVRN oceanfront. That was a great value since WKOVR OR is a much more expensive buy in than WKOVRN OF. So I just assumed using SOs would always be possible at 8 months for anywhere or almost anywhere I wanted to go. I know there is a specific person on this thread who will say “here you go again.” LOL

I have always been able to book my Vistana home resort at 12 months, even this year with the broken online reservation system. I am guessing if MVC does not allow conversion, they may move up the booking window for Vistana owners to 13 months so we have an equal chance of booking our home resort as DP owners will. That is the only fair thing to do so Vistana owners of their home resort do not lose out.

No matter what folks on this thread think, I have always found MVC to be fair or better than fair. When I purchased my DPs resale, MVC was in the process of increasing the enrollment fee to $3 a point (up from $2 a point). Since I was already in contract, they grandfathered me in until my deal closed. To me, that was the only fair thing to do. If they had not done that, I would have had to cancel my contract.

I understand why Vistana owners are worried. OTOH, if you bought where you want to travel, then you should be fine. I think it is the people who bought only for trading with SOs at 8 months who should be the most worried. TUD always says “buy where you want to go.” This is a prime example of why.

 

[TravelTime]

!!

I feel like this (link to pricing page on owners.marriottvacationclub.com page which may require sign-in) is a recent change, and now I'm wondering if it signifies that there will be Enrollment Fees for eligible Vistana Weeks? (I've already said that if not, my question sent to MVW higher-ups will be why not, if there is still an official Enrollment Fee for Marriott Weeks?)

Hmmmmm. I'm making a note to watch this before editing the Points FAQ.

What was the change? Upon initially reading this, it looks the same to me. I would be happy with this policy to enroll my Vistana week.