CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[CPNY]

I guess I am not worried as to whether MVC allows me to enroll my Vistana week or not. I feel my Vistana week is only worthwhile if I can book my week where I own. I am not into Interval or Star Options. I lost 81,000 SOs last year because I did not want to travel anywhere I could book with SOs. So now I think SOs are useless.

I did not realize it would be hard to use SOs if I did not book my home resort in the year the home resort is eligible. There was one year where I was able to use SOs to book at WKOVR oceanfront instead of my home resort of WKOVRN oceanfront. That was a great value since WKOVR OR is a much more expensive buy in than WKOVRN OF. So I just assumed using SOs would always be possible at 8 months for anywhere or almost anywhere I wanted to go. I know there is a specific person on this thread who will say “here you go again.” LOL

I have always been able to book my Vistana home resort at 12 months, even this year with the broken online reservation system. I am guessing if MVC does not allow conversion, they may move up the booking window for Vistana owners to 13 months so we have an equal chance of booking our home resort as DP owners will. That is the only fair thing to do so Vistana owners of their home resort do not lose out.

No matter what folks on this thread think, I have always found MVC to be fair or better than fair. When I purchased my DPs resale, MVC was in the process of increasing the enrollment fee to $3 a point (up from $2 a point). Since I was already in contract, the grandfathered me in until my deal closed. To me, that was the only fair thing to do. If they had not done that, I would have had to cancel my contract.

I understand why Vistana owners are worried. OTOH, if you bought where you want to travel, then you should be fine. I think it is the people who bought only for trading with SOs at 8 months who should be the most worried. TUD always says “buy where you want to go.” This is a prime example of why.

Agreed, I bought orlando because of the trading value at 8 months but I’m also good with going there. If I can only go to orlando for some odd reason then I wouldn’t need as many as I do. I’d reduce the amount I own and just use interval getaways for orlando trips. That’s another option that excellent, keep one or two for interval purposes.

I expect Marriott will be fair for this conversion. We are entering a different economy and a different mindset in regards to travel. I think Marriott will want to do what’s best for customer satisfaction which will ultimately lead to more sales.

 

[CPNY]

!!

I feel like this (link to pricing page on owners.marriottvacationclub.com page which may require sign-in) is a recent change, and now I'm wondering if it signifies that there will be Enrollment Fees for eligible Vistana Weeks? (I've already said that if not, my question sent to MVW higher-ups will be why not, if there is still an official Enrollment Fee for Marriott Weeks?)

Hmmmmm. I'm making a note to watch this before editing the Points FAQ.

Yes, it requires a sign in is the enrollment fees for Marriott weeks per week or a larger fee for all the resale accounts you own? I remember seeing it was Xx amount for one and Xx amount for all.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am getting disgusted by these sales games. Trickling out news, yet trying to sell you products that have nothing in writing but "you have to visit a sales office and buy points to get this or you will lose out." Sales BS. HGV is playing the same integration game too. And it is a poor look for both companies who have historically been more respectable players in the TS industry.

I thought I might open my wallet to participate. Now these tactics are turning me off spending in all programs until I know for sure. AFAIK no one has been harmed with program changes when they owned a deeded week that they mostly used. No one has ever cut off trading in RCI/II. In some cases such as Diamond someone who stuck with their original deed and DID NOT participate in their points programs paid lower maintenance fees and had great trading abiity. They would have been better off sticking with the deeded week they had.

IMO I don't believe the program changes are going to alter Vistana inventory to the extent it affects our ability to use or rent what we own in the foreseeable future. Most Vistana owners don't pay much attention to such announcements and will stick with what they know. Heck, many don't even know how to trade in II/RCI even though it is an option open to them.

P.S. Vistana's reservation website is a mess. Shame on Marriott/Vistana for not handling this transition better - you've had plenty of time to get this right - no excuse.

[Rant finished]

 

[SueDonJ]

... I have always been able to book my Vistana home resort at 12 months, even this year with the broken online reservation system. I am guessing if MVC does not allow conversion, they may move up the booking window for Vistana owners to 13 months so we have an equal chance of booking our home resort as DP owners will. That is the only fair thing to do so Vistana owners of their home resort do not lose out. ...

In the Marriott Weeks system owners can book single Weeks at the 12-months Reservation Window and owners of multiple Weeks can book them consecutively/concurrently at the 13-months window. No changes were made to the single-Week reservation rules when the DC was rolled out with a 13-mos window for higher status tier members, so I can't imagine that the existing reservation rules for Vistana weeks will change either.

There hasn't been since the DC inception a proven instance of Marriott violating the Reservation Rules for Weeks. Meaning from all appearances, nothing is made available through the Destination Club if by doing so, the rights of existing Weeks Owners are violated. The fact that there is a 13-mos Reservation Window in the DC does not mean that all inventory is automatically made available at that window; it only means that inventory which has been made available by Weeks Owners who elect other usage (DC Points, II, Bonvoy Points, etc.) can be available via the DC.

 

[SueDonJ]

Yes, it requires a sign in is the enrollment fees for Marriott weeks per week or a larger fee for all the resale accounts you own? I remember seeing it was Xx amount for one and Xx amount for all.

It's dependent on whether you're enrolling a single Week or multiple Weeks, not assessed on a per-week basis. Quoted text from that link:

>>Enrollment Pricing

You may enroll week(s) purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates in the Exchange Program for only $595 for enrollment of one week and $695 for enrollment of more than one week. Weeks purchased from third parties (i.e., not from Marriott Vacation Club International or its affiliates) with a deed recording date prior to June 20, 2010 (or prior to April 21, 2016 for Marriott Phuket Beach Club weeks) are eligible for this offer, with pricing of $1495 for enrollment of one week and $1995 for enrollment of more than one week. Weeks purchased from third parties in transactions brokered by Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates may be eligible for the offer under certain terms and conditions. Offer is valid for weeks located at participating MVCI resorts located in the U.S. and the Caribbean, and at Marriott's Phuket Beach Club.<<

 

[CPNY]

I am getting disgusted by these sales games. Trickling out news, yet trying to sell you products that have nothing in writing but "you have to buy points to get this or you will lose out." Sales BS. HGV is playing the same integration game too. And it is a poor look for both companies who have been historically more respectable players in the TS industry.

I thought I might open my wallet to participate. Now these tactics are turning me off spending in all programs until I know for sure. AFAIK no one has been harmed with program changes when they owned a deeded week that they mostly used. No on has ever cut off trading in RCI/II. IMO I don't believe the [program changes are going to change Vistana inventory to the extent it affects our ability to use or rent what we own in the foreseeable future. Most Vistana owners don't pay much attention to such announcements and will stick with what they know. Heck, many don't even know how to trade in II/RCI even though it is an option open to them.

P.S. Vistana's reservation website is a mess. Shame on Marriott/Vistana for not handling this transition better - you've had plenty of time to get this right - no excuse.

[Rant finished]

I feel like the big reputable TS companies had a lot of turnover in the sales department. The weasels from Westgate and the likes saw job openings at Marriott and Hilton and applied. I could be wrong, but that’s what it feels like.

I agree, the amount of vistana owners that don’t even know that they can use the VSN is astounding. Some of the conversations I’ve had with owners at resorts is an eye opener. No wonder why they get sold on owners updates. They really don’t even know what they have now and then here comes a sales guy telling them that what they own is old and outdated, so they spend thousands for a new program that they still don’t learn how to use.

I met a 75 year old widow who owns a farm in Florida and never travels anymore, maybe once every 3 years. I met her in the lobby of the sales office while I was attending my owners update in SVR. She was there to cancel her upgrade into flex. An upgrade she felt sick over because she couldn’t afford the 30,000 dollars she just signed up for. She told me the rep told her it’s a better option and when she told the rep she didn’t even use what she owned he pressured her more and more saying She should think about her Son (who wasn’t there) and how he can use it. The Son found out and apparently went a bit nuts, rightfully so! I tried explaining to her to leave the office and write a letter to rescind. I told her to meet me in the lobby of the hotel in 45 min and I would help her to get out of the contract. I was going to write the letter for her. Sales saw metalking to her and they quickly took me in the back. Well, she never showed up to the main lobby and I always wondered what happened to her. I hope they let her out but I doubt they did. It’s so sad how they prey on the elderly.

 

[SueDonJ]

What was the change? Upon initially reading this, it looks the same to me. I would be happy with this policy to enroll my Vistana week.

At some point years into the DC the Enrollment Fee pricing had been changed to a single $2,395 for any and all enrollments. It's curious that the page shows the pricing has reverted back to the original Enrollment Fees.

[ETA] I was just able to do a quick 'Chat Now' but couldn't get an answer as to when/why the change.

 

[CPNY]

It's dependent on whether you're enrolling a single Week or multiple Weeks, not assessed on a per-week basis. Quoted text from that link:

>>Enrollment Pricing

You may enroll week(s) purchased from Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates in the Exchange Program for only $595 for enrollment of one week and $695 for enrollment of more than one week. Weeks purchased from third parties (i.e., not from Marriott Vacation Club International or its affiliates) with a deed recording date prior to June 20, 2010 (or prior to April 21, 2016 for Marriott Phuket Beach Club weeks) are eligible for this offer, with pricing of $1495 for enrollment of one week and $1995 for enrollment of more than one week. Weeks purchased from third parties in transactions brokered by Marriott Vacation Club or its affiliates may be eligible for the offer under certain terms and conditions. Offer is valid for weeks located at participating MVCI resorts located in the U.S. and the Caribbean, and at Marriott's Phuket Beach Club.<<

Thank you! It also looks like it was when the deed was recorded was used as the eligibility to enroll. If that’s the case for mandatory resale owners this time around, some better be getting those deeds recorded asap lol

 

[SueDonJ]

Thank you! It also looks like it was when the deed was recorded was used as the eligibility to enroll. If that’s the case for mandatory resale owners this time around, some better be getting those deeds recorded asap lol

That hard eligibility cut-off simultaneously with the 6/20/10 DC rollout caused a lot of problems with people who had purchases in process. Some were able to make the case for enrollment of those purchases when the process was complete, others were never successful with it. If they've settled internally on a process and cut-off that's understood by all reps, that's great. I wouldn't rely on that being the case, though.

 

[Ken555]

I suspect free enrollment is still available for webinars and certain owner update incentives.

I don’t understand the scenario where it would be free for attending a webinar. Could you provide an example? Is this open to all Marriott owners? What are the “webinar” requirements?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CPNY]

That hard eligibility cut-off simultaneously with the 6/20/10 DC rollout caused a lot of problems with people who had purchases in process. Some were able to make the case for enrollment of those purchases when the process was complete, others were never successful with it. If they've settled internally on a process and cut-off that's understood by all reps, that's great. I wouldn't rely on that being the case, though.

It’s about to get interesting that’s for sure.

 

[kozykritter]

!!

I feel like this (link to pricing page on owners.marriottvacationclub.com page which may require sign-in) is a recent change, and now I'm wondering if it signifies that there will be Enrollment Fees for eligible Vistana Weeks? (I've already said that if not, my question sent to MVW higher-ups will be why not, if there is still an official Enrollment Fee for Marriott Weeks?)

Hmmmmm. I'm making a note to watch this before editing the Points FAQ.

Perhaps the reason they've returned the prices to a lower point is to entice those holdouts from the initial enrollment to pull the switch once the access to Vistana properties comes online. Then they can sell them more DC points as well

From how you described the Marriott points roll out, Vistana owners seem to be in a different situation as an internal points (options) and exchange program is already in place within their ownership system as well as a pure points ownership product. As some have pointed out perhaps a large percentage of Vistana owners are content to continue with those programs rather than use their ownership in DC, with or without an enrollment fee. By and large humans are creatures of habit that avoid change.

To overcome this predilection and fund its desire to provide MVC members greater access to Vistana properties (and sell them more DC points in the process), MVC has to provide a significant incentive to these Vistana owners in question for them to take a risk outside their comfort zone. Enrollment without a fee would make sense as a step in that direction.

 

[SueDonJ]

I don’t understand the scenario where it would be free for attending a webinar. Could you provide an example? Is this open to all Marriott owners? What are the “webinar” requirements?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This link is to an "Owner Learning Center" page that might also require sign-in to a Marriott account (if so I'm sorry, don't know how to make it accessible otherwise.) It contains several links to webinars for various types of ownerships and the last one is "Understanding The Benefits of Enrollment," which has a footnote: *Owners who reside in the U.S. whose weeks were purchased by June 20, 2010, will be offered free enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program after viewing this entire presentation.

[ETA] Hmmm. Maybe this direct link to that single webinar itself might work? https://www.screencast.com/t/zRzeltIz

 

[tschwa2]

I don’t understand the scenario where it would be free for attending a webinar. Could you provide an example? Is this open to all Marriott owners? What are the “webinar” requirements?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It eventually became free to join the DC after watching the webinar for owners of pre 2010 Marriott purchases but that free offer didn't come until about 7 years after a requirement to pay for enrollment which was under $1000 for multiple units purchased directly from Marriott pre 2010 and in the $3000-5000 range if you had one or more resales purchased pre 2010 not from Marriott.

 

[Ken555]

This link is to an "Owner Learning Center" page that might also require sign-in to a Marriott account (if so I'm sorry, don't know how to make it accessible otherwise.) It contains several links to webinars for various types of ownerships and the last one is "Understanding The Benefits of Enrollment," which has a footnote: *Owners who reside in the U.S. whose weeks were purchased by June 20, 2010, will be offered free enrollment in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program after viewing this entire presentation.

[ETA] Hmmm. Maybe this direct link to that single webinar itself might work? https://www.screencast.com/t/zRzeltIz

That page does not require login.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SueDonJ]

Perhaps the reason they've returned the prices to a lower point is to entice those holdouts from the initial enrollment to pull the switch once the access to Vistana properties comes online. Then they can sell them more DC points as well

From how you described the Marriott points roll out, Vistana owners seem to be in a different situation as an internal points (options) and exchange program is already in place within their ownership system as well as a pure points ownership product. As some have pointed out perhaps a large percentage of Vistana owners are content to continue with those programs rather than use their ownership in DC, with or without an enrollment fee. By and large humans are creatures of habit that avoid change.

To overcome this predilection and fund its desire to provide MVC members greater access to Vistana properties (and sell them more DC points in the process), MVC has to provide a significant incentive to these Vistana owners in question for them to take a risk outside their comfort zone. Enrollment without a fee would make sense as a step in that direction.

Your guess is as good as mine.

For the people who are holdouts from the initial rollout, though, the US-based owners anyway, they've had the opportunity to have their Enrollment Fee waived with the webinar viewing for quite some time now. At this point I wouldn't think it's a simple matter of the fee keeping them from enrolling.

When I first heard that Vistana owners wouldn't be charged an enrollment fee it didn't make any sense but I didn't understand your internal exchange option then. Knowing something more about it now it makes a little bit of sense, especially if I understand correctly that the fees for using that option would be higher for those enrolled (bringing your annual Club Dues - or whatever you call them - more in line with the DC Club Dues assessed to Marriott members.)

I do understand the part about there needing to be incentives for Vistana people to join whatever is being introduced - that part is no different than what happened when Marriott owners were first introduced to the DC. Some of us saw value with our particular ownerships immediately while many did not, but over time as we shared our practical experience more people came to understand the benefits it could provide for their individual ownerships. And of course, some Marriott people have never seen value in the DC based on their ownership/usage so have never joined, perfectly content to continue using what they own as they always have. It's an individual choice and not one that people should make until all the ramifications are understood.

 

[kozykritter]

Your guess is as good as mine.

For the people who are holdouts from the initial rollout, though, the US-based owners anyway, they've had the opportunity to have their Enrollment Fee waived with the webinar viewing for quite some time now. At this point I wouldn't think it's a simple matter of the fee keeping them from enrolling.

When I first heard that Vistana owners wouldn't be charged an enrollment fee it didn't make any sense but I didn't understand your internal exchange option then. Knowing something more about it now it makes a little bit of sense, especially if I understand correctly that the fees for using that option would be higher for those enrolled (bringing your annual Club Dues - or whatever you call them - more in line with the DC Club Dues assessed to Marriott members.)

I do understand the part about there needing to be incentives for Vistana people to join whatever is being introduced - that part is no different than what happened when Marriott owners were first introduced to the DC. Some of us saw value with our particular ownerships immediately while many did not, but over time as we shared our practical experience more people came to understand the benefits it could provide for their individual ownerships. And of course, some Marriott people have never seen value in the DC based on their ownership/usage so have never joined, perfectly content to continue using what they own as they always have. It's an individual choice and not one that people should make until all the ramifications are understood.

Perhaps they'll just require Vistana owners to watch the same webinar to enroll for free. Assuming that it's meaningful content, that would probably be beneficial because Vistana overall is a very simple straightforward system whereas MVC appears to have a few more twists and turns to get full benefit from it.... That said, compared to Wyndham it's a cakewalk!

 

[robertk2012]

LOL just like the Covid thread one half demands segregation…..

Exactly like that…no facts

 

[robertk2012]

Ok - but taking that a step further that implies future resales can also participate. Would anyone still buy points from Marriott then when you can buy a Hawaii or WKV week instead for much lower upfront cost and MFs, and then use it as if it were points?

Treating "mandatory" as in the past would cause real issue for future sales.

Those mandatory units wouldn’t be cheap and many have rofr.

 

[rickandcindy23]

When it comes to buying anything Vistana right now, it's best to buy where you want to be or buy something that you know you can rent, should the need arise because when you cannot use your own weeks, just rent what you own. There will be no DC conversions happening for us. Deeded weeks are still deeded weeks, and my deeds will still work the way they were intended. They are not going to change anything on us.

 

[DanCali]

Those mandatory units wouldn’t be cheap and many have rofr.

Let's consider WKV. Let's say 2BR Platinum resale price is currently $15K (give or take). There is no ROFR at this resort. It's supposedly worth 4050 points. It has maintenance fees of ~$1700.

Buying 4050 points from Marriott would be about $50K. Those 4050 points would have MFs of ~$2600. So, you can spend 70% less upfront, and pay 30% less in MFs every year if you go the WKV route... And it's even more attractive if you to the 1BR unit route.

That's would be bad news for Marriott's sales. It could also mean resale prices would increase substantially if they allow future WKV resale into the DC sandbox. I just can't see them allowing that options.

Yes, they can exercise ROFR on Maui weeks, but they'd be doing it at prices they were not doing it before, which would also eat into their margins.

 

[robertk2012]

Let's consider WKV. Let's say 2BR Platinum resale price is currently $15K (give or take). There is no ROFR at this resort. It's supposedly worth 4050 points. It has maintenance fees of ~$1700.

Buying 4050 points from Marriott would be about $50K. Those 4050 points would have MFs of ~$2600. So, you can spend 70% less upfront, and pay 30% less in MFs every year if you go the WKV route... And it's even more attractive if you to the 1BR unit route.

That's would be bad news for Marriott's sales. It could also mean resale prices would increase substantially if they allow future WKV resale into the DC sandbox. I just can't see them allowing that options.

Yes, they can exercise ROFR on Maui weeks, but they'd be doing it at prices they were not doing it before, which would also eat into their margins.

You realize there isn’t an unlimited supply of those?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[VacationForever]

For Vistana owners, if your resale weeks do not get offered free or low cost enrollment, nothing is lost. For those ownership that are in VSN, you will continue to be able to use SOs to book. Those with voluntary weeks will continue to be able to book or exchange in II. I don't understand the anxiety or slamming of Marriott Vacation Club, the company.

 

[DanCali]

You realize there isn’t an unlimited supply of those?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do realize that. That's why I said " It could also mean resale prices would increase substantially if they allow future WKV resale into the DC sandbox" - there is more supply when prices are higher.

 

[rickandcindy23]

They won't allow any resale into DC. They haven't done it since 2010 for Marriott owners. They aren't going to start now with us lowly Vistana owners.