CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[VacationForever]

They won't allow any resale into DC. They haven't done it since 2010 for Marriott owners. They aren't going to start now with us lowly Vistana owners.

Set low expectations and be pleasantly surprised if it turns out better than expected.

 

[robertk2012]

I do realize that. That's why I said " It could also mean resale prices would increase substantially if they allow future WKV resale into the DC sandbox" - there is more supply when prices are higher.

They also currently sell flex products despite cheaper resale mandatory units.


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[DanCali]

They also currently sell flex products despite cheaper resale mandatory units.


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It's because most retail buyers are not even aware the resale market exists.

Not many people would knowingly pay tens of thousands of dollars for something that will be worth zero 7-10 days later (once they can't rescind). They only do that if they don't know the real value or maybe if they get other benefits like retro etc.

 

[TravelTime]

Let's consider WKV. Let's say 2BR Platinum resale price is currently $15K (give or take). There is no ROFR at this resort. It's supposedly worth 4050 points. It has maintenance fees of ~$1700.

Buying 4050 points from Marriott would be about $50K. Those 4050 points would have MFs of ~$2600. So, you can spend 70% less upfront, and pay 30% less in MFs every year if you go the WKV route... And it's even more attractive if you to the 1BR unit route.

That's would be bad news for Marriott's sales. It could also mean resale prices would increase substantially if they allow future WKV resale into the DC sandbox. I just can't see them allowing that options.

Yes, they can exercise ROFR on Maui weeks, but they'd be doing it at prices they were not doing it before, which would also eat into their margins.

They will cut this off by having a date by which Vistana owners are not eligible to buy enrollable weeks on the resale market. That is what they did with the DC. Is that what you were thinking or something else?

 

[Red elephant]

I was told by someone in central office that resale will not be allowed to covert to DC points. They would have to qualify the resale first.
Westin flex is almost sold out and stop selling sometime soon. Only Sheraton flex will be sold.
Nanea and WSJ conversion rates are being recalculated as it was not accurate . We thought it was funny that they have hard 2 years to figure this out and still came out with the wrong conversion rates.
The fees are all going away and there will only be one fee.

 

[VacationForever]

I was told by someone in central office that resale will not be allowed to covert to DC points. They would have to qualify the resale first.
Westin flex is almost sold out and stop selling sometime soon. Only Sheraton flex will be sold.
Nanea and WSJ conversion rates are being recalculated as it was not accurate . We thought it was funny that they have hard 2 years to figure this out and still came out with the wrong conversion rates.
The fees are all going away and there will only be one fee.

But "central office" does not mean anything if it is just another sales manager. By telling customers that resales would not be enrolled is a way to get them to buy from them. I do highly suspect that the conversion rates that were reported by TUGgers recently were also guess work by the sales people. Time will tell for sure.

 

[Red elephant]

But "central office" does not mean anything if it is just another sales manager. By telling customers that resales would not be enrolled is a way to get them to buy from them. I do highly suspect that the conversion rates that were reported by TUGgers recently were also guess work by the sales people. Time will tell for sure.

Actually he looked at my portfolio and told me the conversion . So not sure if that is guess work and he could not tell me about WSJ and Nanea because it was not available .I think there is a lot of wishful thinking on our part as far as resales are concerned but as you said time will tell. If I find a WKV platinum resale I will jump on it. Don’t need to convert to DC points.

 

[dioxide45]

I don’t understand the scenario where it would be free for attending a webinar. Could you provide an example? Is this open to all Marriott owners? What are the “webinar” requirements?


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Yes, for Marriott owners enrolling Marriott weeks in the DC program as it exists right now. Current enrollment fees are anywher efrom $595 to $1995 to enroll Marriott week(s). Watching the webinar waives that fee and gets your week(s) enrolled. If there is no enrollment fee for Vistana weeks, this won't apply to them.

 

[VacationForever]

Thinking a loud... Is it legally possible for VSN SO tables to change point requirements to refine it to the level of DC tables? Can they also bump down SO allotment for SDO?

 

[Eric B]

Thinking a loud... Is it legally possible for VSN SO tables to change point requirements to refine it to the level of DC tables? Can they also bump down SO allotment for SDO?

That might be a bit complicated given the season definitions, but there is a bit of precedent with the SVV Bella phase seasons being slightly out of alignment with the rest of SVV.

 

[DavidnRobin]

That might be a bit complicated given the season definitions, but there is a bit of precedent with the SVV Bella phase seasons being slightly out of alignment with the rest of SVV.

WSJ-VGV had 2 SO adjustments, and WKORV/N OF had 1 SO adjustment.


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[Ken555]

WSJ-VGV had 2 SO adjustments, and WKORV/N OF had 1 SO adjustment.


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Along with WLR during initial sales when they couldn’t sell it at their first SO allocation.


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[CPNY]

I can’t imagine they will be adjusting any star options chart. If they started messing with star options chart to get people to buy DC points that would lead to many irate customers. Angry customers don’t spend money.

 

[dioxide45]

WSJ-VGV had 2 SO adjustments, and WKORV/N OF had 1 SO adjustment.


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Along with WLR during initial sales when they couldn’t sell it at their first SO allocation.


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These are all cases where they increased the SOs of a few resorts. Certainly not something like was proposed to just adjust SOs of ALL deeded weeks at one time. Many would go down in value while others would go up. Certainly not impossible, but not likely to happen. I don't see them changing the current VSN program. DP is just going to be a separate overlay over deeded weeks and Flex points.

 

[Ken555]

These are all cases where they increased the SOs of a few resorts. Certainly not something like was proposed to just adjust SOs of ALL deeded weeks at one time. Many would go down in value while others would go up. Certainly not impossible, but not likely to happen. I don't see them changing the current VSN program. DP is just going to be a separate overlay over deeded weeks and Flex points.

Eh, it answered the stated question.


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[dioxide45]

Eh, it answered the stated question.


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I suppose, but there is a bigger picture to consider.

 

[Ken555]

I suppose, but there is a bigger picture to consider.

Not every post needs to a comprehensive answer to the question, including previous assumptions…or even common sense.


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[VacationForever]

I am simply wondering if there will be adjustments to VSN to more closely match DC points conversion and reservation point requirement so that it becomes a wash whether Vistana owners elect DC for the year or if they were to use VSN to book using SOs.

 

[pchung6]

I only see them increase SO value, never decrease. Not sure if it is even legally allowed.

 

[Ken555]

I am simply wondering if there will be adjustments to VSN to more closely match DC points conversion and reservation point requirement so that it becomes a wash whether Vistana owners elect DC for the year or if they were to use VSN to book using SOs.

Yes, and it was discussed in the early days of this merger, and IIRC our theoretical discussions years ago. Any such adjustment would impact current resorts, some perhaps positively and others certainly negatively.


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[Ken555]

I only see them increase SO value, never decrease. Not sure if it is even legally allowed.

I believe they can make whatever changes to the club they want, including eliminating it altogether.


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[pchung6]

I believe they can make whatever changes to the club they want, including eliminating it altogether.


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I think I heard it somewhere before. If they decrease points for one season, they have to increase points in another season. So the total points available for the resort has to remain the same? Because of that, no way anyone would decrease any season to anger any customers. Not sure it’s still valid today?

 

[bizaro86]

I only see them increase SO value, never decrease. Not sure if it is even legally allowed.

You don't need to decrease any to make any adjustments you want. Leave whichever one you think is most over-pointed the same, and increase everything else relative to that.

IE make Maui/WSJ 300,000 staroptions for a 2br week and work down from there.

That gives you the same effective devaluation without taking away points from anyone.

HGVC just did this - they multiplied HGVC points by 1.6 instead of dividing Diamond points for exactly this reason.

 

[CPNY]

Not sure where changing the star option chart values came into question. However Marriott is too busy trying to figure out the conversion, I doubt they are worried about adjusting the SO chart. If they did, How would that affect the Westin and Sheraton flex ownerships? Would they be able to increase values or decrease others legally now that they have been selling flex ownerships?

 

[Ken555]

Not sure where changing the star option chart values came into question. However Marriott is too busy trying to figure out the conversion, I doubt they are worried about adjusting the SO chart. If they did, How would that affect the Westin and Sheraton flex ownerships? Would they be able to increase values or decrease others legally now that they have been selling flex ownerships?

I’m unclear if the various flex ownerships have the same governing documents as those of us with weeks that are club members so we may convert to SOs. It’s probably easier for them to modify flex.


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