CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[Eric B]

They can, but generally the timeshare companies tend to avoid the wild west of the open timeshare resale market. You simply won't see them out there bidding on timeshares listed on eBay.

When Wyndham was doing it they used third parties to buy for them.

 

[dioxide45]

When Wyndham was doing it they used third parties to buy for them.

Why did Wyndham stop doing it?

 

[Eric B]

Why did Wyndham stop doing it?

I'm not sure whether they have stopped. There were some postings about them doing that a few years ago.

 

[robertk2012]

They can, but generally the timeshare companies tend to avoid the wild west of the open timeshare resale market. You simply won't see them out there bidding on timeshares listed on eBay.

That doesn’t stop them from offering programs to buy them back.

 

[dioxide45]

That doesn’t stop them from offering programs to buy them back.

Certainly don't disagree, Marriott offered buybacks shortly after they initially rolled out the DC program. After several years that turned into deedbacks with no compensation. Deedbacks, ROFR and takebacs though are really a drop in the bucket when compared to what the sales machine can actually sell.

 

[robertk2012]

Hence the reason they piled all of crap into trusts that they could then market as a "better" alternative.

Certainly don't disagree, Marriott offered buybacks shortly after they initially rolled out the DC program. After several years that turned into deedbacks with no compensation. Deedbacks, ROFR and takebacs though are really a drop in the bucket when compared to what the sales machine can actually sell.

 

[SueDonJ]

I have a question for anyone who's already been or will be going to a sales presentation where this soft launch is happening, either at a Marriott or Vistana sales office - which is why I'm duplicate-posting this in both forums -

If you were to choose to purchase now, prior to the official launch, are you able to immediately elect Destination Club Points from any owned intervals which are being enrolled* simultaneously with your new purchase?

*"Enrolled" meaning that your existing previously-owned intervals will be eligible for annual exchange to DC Points.

I'm trying to think through what the official launch might look like as far as availability metrics on the day of the official launch, specifically if Vistana intervals that are newly-eligible for DC Points election will be immediately available to all DC Exchange Company members on the launch date, due to DC Points elections having been processed immediately with the simultaneous purchase.

 

[daviator]

I have a question for anyone who's already been or will be going to a sales presentation where this soft launch is happening, either at a Marriott or Vistana sales office - which is why I'm duplicate-posting this in both forums -

If you were to choose to purchase now, prior to the official launch, are you able to immediately elect Destination Club Points from any owned intervals which are being enrolled* simultaneously with your new purchase?

*"Enrolled" meaning that your existing previously-owned intervals will be eligible for annual exchange to DC Points.

I'm trying to think through what the official launch might look like as far as availability metrics on the day of the official launch, specifically if Vistana intervals that are newly-eligible for DC Points election will be immediately available to all DC Exchange Company members on the launch date, due to DC Points elections having been processed immediately with the simultaneous purchase.

I will do an owner update at WDW in about ten days and will ask, but I imagine somebody else may already know and can report sooner. But what do you mean by “intervals?” VOIs? I have not heard the word “interval” applied to timeshare ownership (except for Interval International, which isn’t relevant here.). I assume you mean ownerships, but if you mean something else, please clarify.

 

[tschwa2]

I'll admit I may have missed this answer, so sorry if it has been asked before.
I am assuming the $215 vsn consolidated program fee would be additional to the annual fee if you also have Marriot points or an enrolled legacy week. Are they saying that the $215 fee for VSN eligible weeks would be an additional fee over the regular VSN fee if you have both mandatory resale VSN weeks and eligible weeks? or would $215 cover both but the extras like II free exchanges and no fee for cancellations, etc not apply to mandatory non eligible weeks? So if you owned a combination or eligible and non eligible Marriot and Vistana weeks you could conceivably have and pay a Marriott VC annual fee for enrolled week(s), a personal Interval account for non enrolled Marriott weeks plus non vsn vistana weeks, and then an annual eligible VSN fee plus another VSN fee for your non eligible VSN resale weeks.

 

[kozykritter]

I'll admit I may have missed this answer, so sorry if it has been asked before.
I am assuming the $215 vsn consolidated program fee would be additional to the annual fee if you also have Marriot points or an enrolled legacy week. Are they saying that the $215 fee for VSN eligible weeks would be an additional fee over the regular VSN fee if you have both mandatory resale VSN weeks and eligible weeks? or would $215 cover both but the extras like II free exchanges and no fee for cancellations, etc not apply to mandatory non eligible weeks? So if you owned a combination or eligible and non eligible Marriot and Vistana weeks you could conceivably have and pay a Marriott VC annual fee for enrolled week(s), a personal Interval account for non enrolled Marriott weeks plus non vsn vistana weeks, and then an annual eligible VSN fee plus another VSN fee for your non eligible VSN resale weeks.

You didn't miss an answer. These types of questions have been bounced around here without any kind of clear confirmation so far.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I will do an owner update at WDW in about ten days and will ask, but I imagine somebody else may already know and can report sooner. But what do you mean by “intervals?” VOIs? I have not heard the word “interval” applied to timeshare ownership (except for Interval International, which isn’t relevant here.). I assume you mean ownerships, but if you mean something else, please clarify.

VOI = Vacation Ownership Interest (Interval)
aka as a week at a resort that is deeded.

This is what Vistana/Starwood calls them - also in acronym list

[Edited]since it seem to be an issue.
The idea is that is was a contract defined set of TS time


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[kozykritter]

VOI = Vacation Ownership Interval
aka as a week at a resort that is deeded.

This is what Vistana/Starwood calls them - also in acronym list


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Just checked and Vistana defines it on their website as Vacation Ownership Interest so probably we should update the acronym list if it says Interval instead. I know back when I sold Starwood Vacation Ownership they also used that same Interest definition.

 

[daviator]

VOI = Vacation Ownership Interval
aka as a week at a resort that is deeded.

This is what Vistana/Starwood calls them - also in acronym list


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I think it's always been Vacation Ownership Interest on the Vistana side. My documents back to 2003 define it that way. First I've heard of a VO "Interval." Anyway, I'll consider myself edumacated.

 

[SueDonJ]

... If you were to choose to purchase now, prior to the official launch, are you able to immediately elect Destination Club Points from any owned intervals which are being enrolled* simultaneously with your new purchase? ...

I will do an owner update at WDW in about ten days and will ask, but I imagine somebody else may already know and can report sooner. But what do you mean by “intervals?” VOIs? I have not heard the word “interval” applied to timeshare ownership (except for Interval International, which isn’t relevant here.). I assume you mean ownerships, but if you mean something else, please clarify.

I'm sorry, have probably made this more confusing than it need be. "Interval" meaning basically a single reservation period, whether it's in Weeks or Points. Weeks are easy to figure out but Points, not so much, especially for me not knowing anything about how Vistana's Flex Points system works.

Where I want to go with this is to try to figure out what Vistana inventory might be available on Day One of the official rollout of the Vistana/Destination Club integration in the Destination Club Exchange Company, and specifically if any of it will be from people who are purchasing DC Points during this "soft launch" period and are already able to "pre" elect (in advance of the official rollout date) DC Points for the Weeks/Flex Points products that they already own.

 

[jabberwocky]

I'm sorry, have probably made this more confusing than it need be. "Interval" meaning basically a single reservation period, whether it's in Weeks or Points. Weeks are easy to figure out but Points, not so much, especially for me not knowing anything about how Vistana's Flex Points system works.

Where I want to go with this is to try to figure out what Vistana inventory might be available on Day One of the official rollout of the Vistana/Destination Club integration in the Destination Club Exchange Company, and specifically if any of it will be from people who are purchasing DC Points during this "soft launch" period and are already able to "pre" elect (in advance of the official rollout date) DC Points for the Weeks/Flex Points products that they already own.

No. You cannot elect yet- even with a new purchase. They have not yet officially released the online “tool” which will allow this to happen. Our salesperson a couple of weeks ago (Vistana) said it would be made available this summer for owners to elect their 2023 weeks.

I don’t know if they will put in some “estimated” deposits for booking on day 1. Anything else will likely be Vistana owned that they deposit.

 

[SueDonJ]

No. You cannot elect yet- even with a new purchase. They have not yet officially released the online “tool” which will allow this to happen. Our salesperson a couple of weeks ago (Vistana) said it would be made available this summer for owners to elect their 2023 weeks.

I don’t know if they will put in some “estimated” deposits for booking on day 1. Anything else will likely be Vistana owned that they deposit.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[CPNY]

I'm sorry, have probably made this more confusing than it need be. "Interval" meaning basically a single reservation period, whether it's in Weeks or Points. Weeks are easy to figure out but Points, not so much, especially for me not knowing anything about how Vistana's Flex Points system works.

Where I want to go with this is to try to figure out what Vistana inventory might be available on Day One of the official rollout of the Vistana/Destination Club integration in the Destination Club Exchange Company, and specifically if any of it will be from people who are purchasing DC Points during this "soft launch" period and are already able to "pre" elect (in advance of the official rollout date) DC Points for the Weeks/Flex Points products that they already own.

if I remember correctly, Marriott allowed resale weeks owners the ability to enroll if they were purchased prior to the announcement date in 2010. What was the criteria ? The deed had to be recorded before that date? Contracts signed before the date? Or Marriott had to complete the transfer? I anticipate a lot of resale activity in the Vistana mandatory market expecting a similar enrollment via a fee or just wanting to play it safe. Personally, I dont feel it will matter.BUT I do have a resale closing currently, waiting on deed prep and recording.

 

[vacationtime1]

if I remember correctly, Marriott allowed resale weeks owners the ability to enroll if they were purchased prior to the announcement date in 2010. What was the criteria ? The deed had to be recorded before that date? Contracts signed before the date? Or Marriott had to complete the transfer? I anticipate a lot of resale activity in the Vistana mandatory market expecting a similar enrollment via a fee or just wanting to play it safe. Personally, I dont feel it will matter.BUT I do have a resale closing currently, waiting on deed prep and recording.

The relevant date in 2010 was the date Marriott passed on ROFR. I know this from personal experience.

We were in the process of purchasing a Kauai Beach Club unit. We passed ROFR before the announcement / cut-off date but the deed did not record until afterwards. We were p*ssed at the time (we were trying to hurry the deal along, unsuccessfully), but Marriott included the unit when we later joined the DC.

 

[SueDonJ]

if I remember correctly, Marriott allowed resale weeks owners the ability to enroll if they were purchased prior to the announcement date in 2010. What was the criteria ? The deed had to be recorded before that date? Contracts signed before the date? Or Marriott had to complete the transfer? I anticipate a lot of resale activity in the Vistana mandatory market expecting a similar enrollment via a fee or just wanting to play it safe. Personally, I dont feel it will matter.

From the FAQ that's linked in my signature:
>>~~ MVCD Introduction Timeline ~~

• 6/20/10 - At the MVCD introduction, Marriott immediately halted developer-direct sales of their MVCI Weeks product and offered DC Trust Points for purchase at the US resort and sales sites; and, offered the DC Enrollment option to existing Weeks Owners of the US and Caribbean resorts. Direct sales of the Weeks product continued only at Caribbean and European resorts.
• 6/18/12 - The MVCD program was introduced on a limited basis at the European resort sites, allowing the DC Enrollment option for all existing European MVCI Weeks. DC Trust Points are not yet available for purchase at the European resorts; Weeks are still available at the onsite sales centers.
• 12/27/12 - Developer-direct sales of MVCI Weeks were halted and purchases of DC Trust Points began at the Caribbean resorts.<<

I'm pretty sure that at every Marriott introductory date, only Weeks which were closed and active in owners' accounts prior to the dates were eligible for enrollment. I vaguely remember people being - justifiably - upset because they had resales in process and no notice had been given in advance of the launches. With Vistana it's different because they've given at least some kind of warning, but I wouldn't even try to guess if this soft launch period is a grace period for people to try to get some Vistana resales closed prior to the official launch, especially with the delays that are currently being seen.

Enrollment, though, is a different animal from the annual election to exchange enrolled Weeks for DC Points, and my question is related to elections. Jabberwocky seems to have answered it, that elections can't be pre-set or transacted until after the official launch.

 

[DavidnRobin]

LOL
Interest (over Interval) is better and seems more appropriate with the advent of points. I did the acronym pre-Flex (Starwood).
Somebody volunteering to do another acronym list? Especially with MWVC merge. Heck … I don’t even know what MWVC means.


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[vacationtime1]

From the FAQ that's linked in my signature:
>>~~ MVCD Introduction Timeline ~~

• 6/20/10 - At the MVCD introduction, Marriott immediately halted developer-direct sales of their MVCI Weeks product and offered DC Trust Points for purchase at the US resort and sales sites; and, offered the DC Enrollment option to existing Weeks Owners of the US and Caribbean resorts. Direct sales of the Weeks product continued only at Caribbean and European resorts.
• 6/18/12 - The MVCD program was introduced on a limited basis at the European resort sites, allowing the DC Enrollment option for all existing European MVCI Weeks. DC Trust Points are not yet available for purchase at the European resorts; Weeks are still available at the onsite sales centers.
• 12/27/12 - Developer-direct sales of MVCI Weeks were halted and purchases of DC Trust Points began at the Caribbean resorts.<<

I'm pretty sure that at every Marriott introductory date, only Weeks which were closed and active in owners' accounts prior to the dates were eligible for enrollment. I vaguely remember people being - justifiably - upset because they had resales in process and no notice had been given in advance of the launches. With Vistana it's different because they've given at least some kind of warning, but I wouldn't even try to guess if this soft launch period is a grace period for people to try to get some Vistana resales closed prior to the official launch, especially with the delays that are currently being seen.

Enrollment, though, is a different animal from the annual election to exchange enrolled Weeks for DC Points, and my question is related to elections. Jabberwocky seems to have answered it, that elections can't be pre-set or transacted until after the official launch.

The relevant date for qualification in 2010 was actually the date Marriott waived ROFR. See my post #193.

I just re-checked my old file. Marriott's ROFR waiver on our KBC purchase was signed in May, 2010 (I have a copy). The sellers didn't sign the deed until 6/19/2010 and the deed wasn't recorded until 7/13/2010. But they let me enroll the unit into the DC (I was surprised; I expected them to enroll only our Waiohai unit).

Obviously this is not precedent. But anyone closing a resale deal near the deadline should be aware.

 

[Mcrobot]

Just went to a WSJ owners update Friday. They shared the conversion rates for both Nanea and WSJ would be higher than the other resorts, at 1:32 ratio. They also stated they would stop selling deeds at the end of this month and switch to DC points…has anyone else heard this or is this just more sales babble?

 

[daviator]

Just went to a WSJ owners update Friday. They shared the conversion rates for both Nanea and WSJ would be higher than the other resorts, at 1:32 ratio. They also stated they would stop selling deeds at the end of this month and switch to DC points…has anyone else heard this or is this just more sales babble?

Just to be clear, a 1:32 ratio is a LOWER (poorer) ratio for owners. It means you need 32 SOs to get one DP. I thought I'd read that Nanea was going to be more like 1:26 or 1:27. I would consider a 1:32 to be pretty insulting for Nanea and WSJ given what some of the comparable Marriott timeshare resorts "cost" to reserve with DPs. I'd expect those two properties to have the strongest conversion ratios, so if 1:32 is the best, then I fear to learn what my WKORV and others will be worth.

I wouldn't be surprised if my WDW weeks were 1:32, which will not compel me to enroll them.

There is so much sales babble. I will be doing an owner update later this month and will report back on what they tell me.

 

[WatsonC2]

Just to be clear, a 1:32 ratio is a LOWER (poorer) ratio for owners. It means you need 32 SOs to get one DP. I thought I'd read that Nanea was going to be more like 1:26 or 1:27. I would consider a 1:32 to be pretty insulting for Nanea and WSJ given what some of the comparable Marriott timeshare resorts "cost" to reserve with DPs. I'd expect those two properties to have the strongest conversion ratios, so if 1:32 is the best, then I fear to learn what my WKORV and others will be worth.

I wouldn't be surprised if my WDW weeks were 1:32, which will not compel me to enroll them.

There is so much sales babble. I will be doing an owner update later this month and will report back on what they tell me.

This is why I’m not concerned about the resale vs developer weeks being eligible for this new program. If the ratios don’t achieve the desired result they will need to make adjustments. It’s likely the “soft launch” is intended to test the numbers before finalizing what they need to do to implement it.

 

[Mcrobot]

Yep. They told us that non-Nanea and Non-WSJ would be WORSE than this, as in 1:35 or 1:38. Guess we’ll see when this becomes official.

Just to be clear, a 1:32 ratio is a LOWER (poorer) ratio for owners. It means you need 32 SOs to get one DP. I thought I'd read that Nanea was going to be more like 1:26 or 1:27. I would consider a 1:32 to be pretty insulting for Nanea and WSJ given what some of the comparable Marriott timeshare resorts "cost" to reserve with DPs. I'd expect those two properties to have the strongest conversion ratios, so if 1:32 is the best, then I fear to learn what my WKORV and others will be worth.