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Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

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taffy19

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The reason I brought up Disney's future problems with RTU contacts expiring isn't to say that it would be a bad idea for Marriott to use Disney's template as an overlay exchange system, but rather to say that every system has its good and bad points. I think Disney is a very good example of how Marriott could roll this out - DVC points are connected to a home resort and they cannot sell more points than what a particular resort's intervals will support. If Marriott did implement something like this then it could be a simple points overlay system for exchanges rather than a trust system, which appears to be the most difficult to marry with a weeks-based system.

Disney does somehow manage to equitably handle their inventory between owners staying at their home resort on points (with a reservation priority over owners of other DVC resorts,) owners staying at other DVC resorts on points, owners staying at Disney hotels or cruise line on points, Disney-processed external exchanges within RCI, and cash rentals split between developer-held points and owners points deposited for external exchanges, all the while keeping resale values stronger than any other timeshare system's. What's to say Marriott can't manage to do the same thing, except that Marriott will also have to equitably manage "legacy weeks" at the same time. It can be done, I'm convinced of that, and at a certain price point it will be seen by weeks owners as a fair value. We can't know what that price point is for us individually until the details are made available, but I don't think that a person has to go solely on blind faith in order to think that there's a possibility Marriott could be doing something good here.
I see it exactly the same way as you. People paid very different prices from one resort to another and the same for the different seasons, sizes of units as well as view. There is no way that they can disregard this all of the sudden and reservations are made on the first come, first service basis from here on with the point system.

There has to be some type home resort priority because of the big price difference when you bought but not for making an internal exchange to another resort. It has to be like an overlay over the old system. It's too complicated for me so may as well wait untill they finally announce the new system.

Do people, who do not convert, eventually are at a big disadvantage? That would be a big worry and people are not going to be happy about that because the system was changed after 20 or so years and nobody expected that this could happen.
 

PerryM

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so now that two of the supposed deadlines have passed, can we admit that there is nothing to this nonsense.

Right niw in order to believe this you have to believe that Marriott has super secret security that noone has been able to penatrate except for a few sales reps.

no one else anywhere but hear is even hinting about this.

go on with your lives, this is nothing more than the 5(or sixth) aniversery of this same rumor.

All the TV shows are in reruns except a few on FOX to save the day. I like Burn Notice - I get helpful tips on how to do all kinds of neat things I just never seem to get around to doing; blowing up things, dodging assassins, then there's all the lessons on wiretaps - I take copious notes.

This is a substitute...
 
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dougp26364

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Honestly, I don't see a problem with being on the lookout for problems with how Marriott handles the inventory after (if) this new thing is rolled out, but I just don't get the expectation that they WILL incorrectly handle it in order to generate sales. Within the current system we've not had to worry about all this despite the fact that there isn't anything in writing that we can point to for how they handle 12/13-month inventory. Why are some so willing to believe that they'll finagle it purposely to hurt the folks who don't convert? What is in their past history to lead to that expectation?

I know we didn't ask for any guarantee in writing about how inventory is handled when we purchased more than one week in order to be able to take advantage of the 13-mo rule. If everything with this new system appears to be as legitimate and is a usage improvement over what we own currently, then I won't feel like I have to ask for such a written guarantee before converting. YMMV, of course, but Marriott's consistent history with a good product and a good system holds some water with me. The only thing they'll HAVE to sell me on is that whatever gets rolled out works better for me.

I think the problem is some people have spent to much time listening to scary stories told by a few timeshare salesmen who stretch the truth. You know the ones. They tell people if you buy resale you'll never be able to do internal exchanges with Marriott. Marriott will flag you file and you'll always be dumped to the bottom of the list. You'll get the worst location with a view of the trash dumpster et..... They try to get inside your head and make you believe things that aren't true.

Looks like they've done a good job frightening at least one or two resale buyers on this forum. They've certainly got inside their heads judging by the irrational posts I've read.
 

dougp26364

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This is great news!

Do-it-yourself weeks to points conversion.

I sure hope the instructions are not in Chinese.

I suppose a website could have all the docs and instructions on how to print out the forms transferring ownership from you to the Marriott trust.

Then which docs to have notarized and how to send the docs via Priority Mail.

I guess it could be done and this would be my dream come true :)

It can be done this way.

When you bought your resale Summit Watch, did you go to a re-sale sales floor or was all the paperwork handled via FedEx? The resale week I purchased I sure didn't go into an office to finalize the paperwork. When I converted my DRI weeks to points I never stepped foot on a sales floor either.

So happy days for you. You won't have to see a Marriott salesman and get bashed for owning a resale week all over again. You'll be able to simply mail it in.
 

dougp26364

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Ever play Tetris on your cell phone? I do when waiting in line and it hurts just to stare at the wall.

Well Tetris has multi-colored blocks falling in a random location and you use past fallen blocks to build upon.

Marriott doesn't have to actually confirm a reservation in order for it to show up in the rental calendar - it can just hold it there in limbo waiting for other reservations to form long 13-month links which will snag ALL 13 month inventory for hot weeks.

If a non-member tries to make a reservation then the chain will be locked in and the reservation system will play Tetris again.

There is nothing wrong with this and checking your deed will find no mention that Marriott can't play these games.

Will Marriott do it? Don't know but I sure would if my sales reps spent all day selling New Year's week to everyone walking through the door.

Marriott hasn't had any vested interest in reservations before and that's why they dumped exchanging over to II. Now they do.

You worked on a Warren commision didn't you.
 

dougp26364

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When Marriott rolls out the new program I feel sure that they will announce that from this point forward only points will be sold by Marriott, and that any new resorts built will only be available to Marriott points owners along with the if you don't convert eventually you will have nothing to trade for since everyone is converting and all inventory will be in points, etc, etc,blah, blah, blah.

I am sure that they will explain how resale owners will be missing out on the new points exchange program in some form or fashion from what they have been saying about resales over the past months. I hope someone here will quiz them on what disadvantages resale weeks will have from this point forward. Will new resale weeks not be allowed to convert to points? Will resale weeks be more expensive to convert to points. If you convert you week to points and sell it will the points transfer to your resale buyer or revert to weeks? For months they have threatened that resale weeks would be devalued and that resale owners would not get the same perks as retail owners once the points were rolled out. Now I am curious as to what (if any) punishment they have in place for those of us who purchased resale.

They, meaning salesmen and Perry. Yep, two very reliable sources.

It is believable to me that resale buyers will be asked to pay more but, I haven't seen that in writing. It's an assumption on my part. We all know what assumptions can do.

Then again, if they ask resale buyers to pay a higher price to convert to the new points program but, resale buyers paid a fraction of developer pricing, are they really paying more?
 

SueDonJ

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They, meaning salesmen and Perry. Yep, two very reliable sources.

It is believable to me that resale buyers will be asked to pay more but, I haven't seen that in writing. It's an assumption on my part. We all know what assumptions can do.

Then again, if they ask resale buyers to pay a higher price to convert to the new points program but, resale buyers paid a fraction of developer pricing, are they really paying more?

Ah, vindication! This is what I've been saying for ages! But look out Doug, because it seems that's some sort of hocuspocus voodoo blesphemy you're talking about. :D
 

taffy19

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so now that two of the supposed deadlines have passed, can we admit that there is nothing to this nonsense.

Right niw in order to believe this you have to believe that Marriott has super secret security that noone has been able to penatrate except for a few sales reps.

no one else anywhere but hear is even hinting about this.

go on with your lives, this is nothing more than the 5(or sixth) aniversery of this same rumor.
The deadline hasn't passed yet. :p Office closed for sales training on June 17 at the MOC for three days only. Others have reported two weeks at other resorts and then there is this email here of May 14 that is in black and white and I bolded the date of June 16 in that email.
Date: May 14, 2010
To: All Sales & Marketing Associates
From: Brian Miller, Senior Vice President, Sales, Marketing and Service Operations
Re: Marriott Vacation Club 25th Anniversary Celebration Conclusion
Since last April, we have been celebrating the 25th anniversary of Marriott Vacation Club. As the first major hospitality brand to enter the Vacation Ownership Industry, we all believed this milestone was worthy of celebration, both with our associates and with our valued owners and customers.
The success of our 25th anniversary has been remarkable as our owners and guests have taken advantage of our unprecedented On-Tour Purchase Incentives. This has been one of the best buying opportunities of the decade, but unfortunately all good things come to an end.
While we have been celebrating our special milestone since April 7th, 2009, I want you to be aware that our current offering of promotional pricing incentives will expire as of close of business, June 16, 2010. Existing On-Tour Incentives may not be extended and WILL NOT be continued after the above date. There will be no exceptions.
Have a terrific month! Thank you for your contributions to our great company’s success as we close out the celebration of this special milestone.
We only have to wait a few more days and I hope that a new thread will be started. :cheer:
 
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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
What Time Zone Is MOC In ?

Office closed for sales training on June 17 at the MOC for three days only.
Shux, around here, it's still only June 14 -- June 17 hasn't happened yet.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

taffy19

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What Time Zone Is MOC In ?

Shux, around here, it's still only June 14 -- June 17 hasn't happened yet.


-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
The Maui Ocean Club is on Maui and I changed my time to Hawaiian time so that's what the time is there now (2:36 PM) but the same date.

(GMT - 10:00) Hawaii :) I just noticed that there is only a 2 hour difference and not 3 when we usually go. :eek:
 

tombo

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It can be done this way.

When you bought your resale Summit Watch, did you go to a re-sale sales floor or was all the paperwork handled via FedEx? The resale week I purchased I sure didn't go into an office to finalize the paperwork. When I converted my DRI weeks to points I never stepped foot on a sales floor either.

So happy days for you. You won't have to see a Marriott salesman and get bashed for owning a resale week all over again. You'll be able to simply mail it in.

Big difference. When you buy resale from an individual Marriott doesn't make any money so they don't care if the sale falls through or if the paperwork is messed up and not deeded correctly. They hope the resale falls through so the buyer might instead buy from Marriott.

When it is Marriott converting to points or selling additional points it is Marriott who's sale and profits will fall through if the customer backs out with buyers remorse, because of delays in the mail, etc. They want a sales person to close the sale, a manager to make sure it stays closed, and a signed contract in hand making people feel as though they can't back out if they want to. If everything is done by mail there is too much lag time where buyer's remorse can and often will set in. In addition Marriott's closing ratio on conversions through mailers and web site will be much lower than one on one with sales pros and everyone (especially Marriott) knows it.

If timeshare weeks, timeshare points, timeshare conversions, etc would sell without employing highly paid, high pressure sales forces then Marriott, DVC, HGC, etc would not employ salesmen to market their resorts. Timeshares (other than dirt cheap resales) do not sell themselves, they must be sold to somebody by somebody.
 
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DanCali

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If everything is done by mail there is too much lag time where buyer's remorse can and often will set in.

But they do have a direct sales department that operates via phone.In fact, I've found the salespeople from telesales I talked to (both Starwood and Marriott) much more honest - perhaps they operate under a different set of rules on that front?
 

tombo

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But they do have a direct sales department that operates via phone.In fact, I've found the salespeople from telesales I talked to (both Starwood and Marriott) much more honest - perhaps they operate under a different set of rules on that front?

I wonder if the "honest"Marriott telesales force will honestly answer questions about points rules, conversion costs, and other questions we all have. If they will that will be great and save us sitting through long "informative presentations". I bet money that they won't discuss points details over the phone but it would be great to be wrong about that.
 

JimIg23

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So, what does everyone think, will a Tugger get the scoop on this on Saturday?
 

PerryM

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Woo Hoo!

It can be done this way.

When you bought your resale Summit Watch, did you go to a re-sale sales floor or was all the paperwork handled via FedEx? The resale week I purchased I sure didn't go into an office to finalize the paperwork. When I converted my DRI weeks to points I never stepped foot on a sales floor either.

So happy days for you. You won't have to see a Marriott salesman and get bashed for owning a resale week all over again. You'll be able to simply mail it in.

Phew! Marriott of Nigeria keeps sending me huge cashiers checks for my Summit Watch and I keep sending them back Western Union Money Orders since I don't want to take advantage of them.

They tell me my Gold Summit Watch is worth 666 Points - I'm thrilled.

So be on the lookout for your own Marriott of Nigeria letter - it's easy to spot, it has a return address of San Quentin, CA, I guess that's the new address for Marriott Points?

It's nice to be on the cutting edge...
 

jlf58

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of course they will. They get paid to sell


I wonder if the "honest"Marriott telesales force will honestly answer questions about points rules, conversion costs, and other questions we all have. If they will that will be great and save us sitting through long "informative presentations". I bet money that they won't discuss points details over the phone but it would be great to be wrong about that.
 

melroseman

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Marriott telesales

As many of you know, the telesales people are more "careful" in what they say because the calls are recorded and randomly monitored. They don't (and can't) make stuff up or stretch the truth too much. So yes, your information is likely to be more accurate via telephone that at a presentation.
 

scrapngen

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thanks for help writing my scare tactics... - M. Salesperson

I suspect we have aided the salesmen tremendously by this thread to add to the resale/conversion scare tactics.

While I and others have not particularly found our salespeople to misrepresent or outright lie (and I think while this may be in dispute, it is not in dispute that they are NOT the worst, at least) The one thing that seems to be almost universal among salestalk is the allegations that resales people are treated differently, therefore it is better to buy direct. Some are told their files will have a flag and therefore the desk will dis them, others that their reservations will be impacted in some way (even to the parking lot views) etc., etc.

Many of these allegations are only found to be false by the unsuspecting person who stumbled into the TS presentation not knowing the deal only upon getting feedback from actual resale purchasers and their experiences, or by other investigation, but since the salesperson is presumably good at the job, it will be enough to make them uncertain - hopefully long enough to outlast the recission period. (Other than the one valid point that resale does not allow conversion to MR's - which can be verified by contract) Because it is so hard to verify, people are often unwilling to "take the chance on resale" and buy a guaranteed product directly. They don't always realise how this purchasing mentality doesn't equate/apply the same way as material goods in this instance, due to the nature of the product. (I'm only referring to the unsuspecting, not those who buy direct knowing what is fact and fiction)

So my point is: if some of the salespeople choose to continue to rely on scare tactics - and since many of the scare tactics previously used relied on perception and not something that was easily verified - we have now given them several more things to scare folks with - that can't easily be verified. And even veteran, seasoned TUGGERs (I'm not in this group yet) will have a hard time determining or verifying for some time to come. Meanwhile, the salespeople have now added the following (regardless of the actual truth, which even they might not really know) to their arsenal (if they choose to use it) for both purchases AND conversions:

"your week probably won't have access to as many prime weeks w/everyone else converting"

"your current prime week still won't do as well with the new system implemented"

"you've been doing pretty well w/your re-sale weeks, but now they REALLY don't equate with developer so you'll want to switch"

"in other points systems where there has been an opportunity to convert, those who didn't have a harder time finding good trades, and while they still get their deeded rights, they don't get all the extras they used to, so you should convert now while we have goodies"

"if you buy resale, points will stay reasonably firm in price, but weeks will be worth nothing"

"the inventory you CAN access with a resale or unconverted week will be greatly restricted, and while you can still trade in II, you will have different access and no preference anymore if you don't convert or still choose to buy re-sale"

etc.

I actually see the scare tactics being useful for both any new sales and for the "potential" conversion. (The one thing I believe is a fact is that a new system is coming - what it means to me is very much "potential and speculative")

and, finally, they can say "hey, if you don't believe me and want some other opinions first, here's a long thread going into great detail about what resale will now mean written by many people who've been TS for a long time and have a lot of collective knowledge and look at the title and all the concerns if you don't go to points..." :ignore:

Today I'm looking at the empty glass which takes a look at this amazing wealth of brainpower/(or not so much) spent on this idea and wonders how the salespeople look at it and make use of the same brainpower and figure out how to use it to their advantage...:crash:
 

Dean

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Dean:

Looks like we agree here. Without home resort priority I doubt that owners of the "primo" weeks will convert. Let's return to my ski week example. Hypothetically, an owner of a primo Park City or Tahoe ski week will mostly occupy but occasionally might trade to ski in a different location or try something different. I would be willing to wager that the owners of these units purchased mostly to occupy and occasionally exchange. Now these owners, can do a request first before giving up the home resort. I don't think these owners will put their weeks in the points without some assurance they will be able to "snag" a similiar week in return.

I don't believe you will be giving up summer in HHI either without some sort of confidence you could get it back!!!

I on the other hand might be quite inclined to convert my GV weeks even without Home resort priority (if it is not cost prohibitive) as I have ZERO doubts about being able to go to Orlando. If the deal is a "three year term" as per the "survey" I would most likely convert the Hawaii's as 2011 weeks are already booked for my 25th anniv. super trip. I would probably be Hawaii'ed out for a few years after this one. The prospects of some mini jaunts to off season joints within driving distance (HHI, Florida etc) might be quite appealing...
I'm sure we agree far more than not on most things but there's no fun in reading a thread where everyone agrees on every detail. Depending on specifics I'll likely be interested in converting 4 or 5 weeks but not the other 4 or 5.

Another thing to consider is that a points system is a chance for Marriott to "re-season" a lot of their resorts. A big complaint at many resorts is that people can't get book prime weeks since seasons are too long and there are too many owners competing for only a few weeks.

In a new system there isn't anything stating that Marriott must assign point values off of the existing seasons. They could look at Ocean Pointe and assign more points to the May weeks and fewer points to the September weeks. You may get an average of all of those points in the season you own.

So if you are used to going to OP every May, you may have to instead go in May one year and September the next by borrowing or carrying points over.

Marriott can change the whole game with this.
Depending on the other choices they could do this but it assumes either no home resort priority or that the best priority one can achieve is for the resort and not season. That will keep a lot of high demand weeks out of the system. If the weeks aren't converted, they can't be available for points owners.

What's going to be funny is if the program is so good, Perry has to eat crow for all the scary words he's posted and joins the new program himself. :hysterical:
I give it 50/50 that he does join within 2-3 years, we'll see.

I thought most points systems maintained some sort of home resort priority. It's a few trust based ownerships where there is no home resort, just an ownership interest in a trust that includes several resorts, that didn't have what Marriott owners understand as home resort priority.
DVC does, Bluegreen and Club Intrawest don't give a home resort priority. I don't think Wyndham does with maybe limited exceptions, not sure about Shell, VRI, etc. BG gives you access to your underlying week only or you get the points. Maybe we should come up with a list of how each points system handles this issue.

Doug is the expert here as he owns at several point systems and it seems to work according to him and you don't read many complaints about it. If the person designed it, who worked for Disney, then I would have confidence. Do you hear complaints from Disney owners?
Actually yes, all the time. And Disney's fees are about 30-40% more than Marriott's for a comparable unit.

We've spent most of our time talking about things like whether there will be a home resort priority, another question is whether there will be any restrictions on length of stay, charges for additional housekeeping, etc. The limited info we've gotten (or at least the majority of the guessing) has this looking a lot more like Bluegreen or Wyndham or even RCI points, than DVC. Both have a VIP system.

Folks, look at your deed and it simply states you can make a reservation, of 7 days or a 4/3 split, during your SEASON. I sure don't remember anything else promised.
It also says they can change the reservation system without input and without amending the POS in the ones I've looked at directly. Plus, anyone changing over would be agreeing to the NEW terms and giving up their previous options.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they said you can convert for X fee OR you can add on and convert for free.

Sorry if this has been asked and answered in the 89 pages I didn't read all the way thru, :) , how do you think this new system may affect Marriott helping to resell a property? I have contacted them about selling my property in Maui and am on the list, but I was wondering if this will help or hinder my chances of getting it sold?
Thanks for any opinions.
It has come up and I don't think anyone knows. My guess is you'll get a letter telling you that they are ceasing resales as of X date, maybe the end of the year. OR they may allow you to sell it within the points system instead but you'd likely have to convert it to do so.
 

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Calls are almost never recorded and when they are, its for sales training.
I am not sure why people say things when they don't have accurate information.

As many of you know, the telesales people are more "careful" in what they say because the calls are recorded and randomly monitored. They don't (and can't) make stuff up or stretch the truth too much. So yes, your information is likely to be more accurate via telephone that at a presentation.
 

Dean

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Calls are almost never recorded and when they are, its for sales training.
I am not sure why people say things when they don't have accurate information.
I can't speak for Marriott and you'd certainly know more than I, however, many companies now record each and every phone call. We do and we're much smaller than is Marriott. We can go back and review every phone call fairly easily at this point. I'm pretty sure Bluegreen records every phone call as well as II, not sure about RCI but I'd be surprised if they didn't. IF Marriott doesn't, they should.
 

dioxide45

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This is actually quite interesting. Wondering why they would be doing a webinar on how to trade your week THROUGH II if they are looking to do it themselves.

Did anyone receive this invitation? I didn't see any comments but it takes place on June 16 which happens to be the week that the new system will be announced supposedly. I wished I had signed up but left it too late and now the link is dead. I am almost positive that it was for the 16th and I was going to sign up later as I was curious what they were going to pitch on that date.

I left a call to see if I can still sign up for it.

Subject: Exclusive Owner Event from Marriott Vacation Club

Dear xxxxxx,

It is my pleasure to invite you to join fellow new Owners for a web based seminar (webinar) that will discuss how to exchange your Marriott Vacation Club week through Interval International to experience a new destination.

Each year, over 40% of Marriott Vacation Club owners exchange their week(s) with Interval International, our exchange partner. This webinar will cover the different exchange methods, comparability factors, the Travel Demand index, and tips and tricks to help you comfirm your vacation with Interval International. I am confident that you will have a greater understanding of how to maximize your vacation ownership with Marriott Vacation Club after participating in our webinar.

The webinar is complimentary: all you need is a computer with access to the internet. To register for our Owner Webinar, please click here and then click on the red "Learn about Upcoming Webinars" button.

Sincerely,

jennifer_derosier.gif


Jennifer deRosier
Director of Education
Marriott Vacation Club International


PS. I received this email on May 24, 2010.
 

jlf58

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There are lots of things they don't do that they should and this is one of them LOL

I can't speak for Marriott and you'd certainly know more than I, however, many companies now record each and every phone call. We do and we're much smaller than is Marriott. We can go back and review every phone call fairly easily at this point. I'm pretty sure Bluegreen records every phone call as well as II, not sure about RCI but I'd be surprised if they didn't. IF Marriott doesn't, they should.
 

Dean

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There are lots of things they don't do that they should and this is one of them LOL
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm Fletch? Any relationship to why you bailed? Rhetorical, don't answer that. Shall we start in DC?
 
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