Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[tombo]

I vote yes for an optional point system for $250 a year or less with internal exchanges and no conversion fee. If marriott rolls the new points system out at that low of a price then these 83 pages and worries were all for nothing.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Don't Worry. Be Happy.

If marriott rolls the new points system out at that low of a price then these 83 pages and worries were all for nothing.

Nothing but the entertainment value, anyway.

Any time people get bored, they can always start flogging ROFR again.

That's good for approximately 2-3 TUG-BBS go-rounds per year.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[tombo]

Kind of hard to get really fired up about ROFR since nobody exercises it on a regular basis anymore. Ohhhhh for the good old days when just the mention of ROFR would start a debate that was intense and entertaining.

I feel like the new points system will be so hated by some, and so loved by others, that it will be the discussion with guaranteed fireworks. I don't even know the details yet and I feel sure that I am not going to like it........The times, they are a changin......

 

[MOXJO7282]

I am really perplexed by something. The fact that there has been no media coverage whatsoever about this pending Marriott change. If it were anything significant wouldn't you think some news agency of some type would have picked something up by now.

Based on all the rumors it does seem apparent to me that something is coming, but it just seems very odd to me that there hasn't been more leaked to the press somehow.

It really makes me wonder what is actually going to happen.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Timeshare News Isn't Really News.

I am really perplexed by something. The fact that there has been no media coverage whatsoever about this pending Marriott change. If it were anything significant wouldn't you think some news agency of some type would have picked something up by now.

Based on all the rumors it does seem apparent to me that something is coming, but it just seems very odd to me that there hasn't been more leaked to the press somehow.

It really makes me wonder what is actually going to happen.

A. All this Marriott points stuff is still just rumor & speculation.

B. Timeshare developments are generally way, way below the radar of the news media.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[brianfox]

I have to mention something that concerns points that happened not one hour ago...

I was on the phone with II Marriott desk. I got an exchange during Flex (into 1BR Hawaii for a 2BR Marriott Branson), and I was asking the rep if, since the trade occurred in Flex, we could trade a 1BR Branson from a different year instead of the 2BR. The agent went away to discuss it with her superior and came back to tell me that they could not do the alternate exchange because the 1BR Branson didn't have enough trading power.

But here's the thing....

What she told me was that the Marriott Branson did not have enough "POINTS". I told her that was the first time I ever heard that word uttered by anyone at II. She went on to say that the Marriott Branson week "was about 1,000 POINTS shy of qualifying for the exchange". I asked her again what she meant by points, and she was silent for a moment and told me it didn't have the trading power.

I believe I said to her "I have a feeling I just heard something I wasn't supposed to hear"...

Don't know if it means anything at all, but remember - this was the Marriott desk of II.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[RandR]

I have to mention something that concerns points that happened not one hour ago...

I was on the phone with II Marriott desk. I got an exchange during Flex (into 1BR Hawaii for a 2BR Marriott Branson), and I was asking the rep if, since the trade occurred in Flex, we could trade a 1BR Branson from a different year instead of the 2BR. The agent went away to discuss it with her superior and came back to tell me that they could not do the alternate exchange because the 1BR Branson didn't have enough trading power.

But here's the thing....

What she told me was that the Marriott Branson did not have enough "POINTS". I told her that was the first time I ever heard that word uttered by anyone at II. She went on to say that the Marriott Branson week "was about 1,000 POINTS shy of qualifying for the exchange". I asked her again what she meant by points, and she was silent for a moment and told me it didn't have the trading power.

I believe I said to her "I have a feeling I just heard something I wasn't supposed to hear"...

Don't know if it means anything at all, but remember - this was the Marriott desk of II.

Any thoughts on this?

That would be really interesting. Now we don't know the number of points each place will be assigned or if 1000 or 10000 is a lot of points but this might be encouraging. People have speculated that places like Branson and Orlando might not fair too well as they are overbuilt. But this is showing that Branson and Hawaii aren't that far apart. Of course it could be that Hawaii is 2000 and Branson is 1000 so it is double but I doubt the absolute numbers will be that low.

 

[dougp26364]

I vote yes for an optional point system for $250 a year or less with internal exchanges and no conversion fee. If marriott rolls the new points system out at that low of a price then these 83 pages and worries were all for nothing.

In think the 83 pages of worry are for nothing no matter what Marriott does. No matter what they do, I still own the week I purchased.

 

[DanCali]

Any thoughts on this?

Or it could just be II internal method of assigning trading power... Surely they must assign some numbers based on unit size, resort, season, when you deposit etc. Maybe those numbers are referred to internally as "POINTS"??

 

[dougp26364]

Kind of hard to get really fired up about ROFR since nobody exercises it on a regular basis anymore. Ohhhhh for the good old days when just the mention of ROFR would start a debate that was intense and entertaining.

I feel like the new points system will be so hated by some, and so loved by others, that it will be the discussion with guaranteed fireworks. I don't even know the details yet and I feel sure that I am not going to like it........The times, they are a changin......

Don't let people scare you about points systems. Three of our seven timeshares are in points systems. Points systems have more flexablity and offer more value than traditional weeks based systems. I would love for Marriott to come out with something that competes with the best of the points based systems.

My only worry is they'll introduce some sort of trust based ownership rather than an internal points based exchange system. I'll really have to look that over before jumping onboard. Even if there's no joiner fee and minimal management fee's.

 

[dougp26364]

I have to mention something that concerns points that happened not one hour ago...

I was on the phone with II Marriott desk. I got an exchange during Flex (into 1BR Hawaii for a 2BR Marriott Branson), and I was asking the rep if, since the trade occurred in Flex, we could trade a 1BR Branson from a different year instead of the 2BR. The agent went away to discuss it with her superior and came back to tell me that they could not do the alternate exchange because the 1BR Branson didn't have enough trading power.

But here's the thing....

What she told me was that the Marriott Branson did not have enough "POINTS". I told her that was the first time I ever heard that word uttered by anyone at II. She went on to say that the Marriott Branson week "was about 1,000 POINTS shy of qualifying for the exchange". I asked her again what she meant by points, and she was silent for a moment and told me it didn't have the trading power.

I believe I said to her "I have a feeling I just heard something I wasn't supposed to hear"...

Don't know if it means anything at all, but remember - this was the Marriott desk of II.

Any thoughts on this?

It's just their (Interval's) internal grading system for exchanges. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bobcat]

Don't let people scare you about points systems. Three of our seven timeshares are in points systems. Points systems have more flexablity and offer more value than traditional weeks based systems. I would love for Marriott to come out with something that competes with the best of the points based systems.

My only worry is they'll introduce some sort of trust based ownership rather than an internal points based exchange system. I'll really have to look that over before jumping onboard. Even if there's no joiner fee and minimal management fee's.

Have you seen the resale prices of Sunterra and DRI points. Also, the M F's are very high. I will keep my week.

 

[cruisin]

They would be better off making it inexpensive to get in, make it a huge success, then systematically raise the fees. once everybody's in, it would be hard to quit.

 

[DanCali]

They would be better off making it inexpensive to get in, make it a huge success, then systematically raise the fees. once everybody's in, it would be hard to quit.

Pretty amazing how every hypothesis ends up with owners eventually getting screwed in some form or another - whether it's on resale value, or fees. Marriott settling for honest fees and keeping owners happy and resale values intact doesn't even seem to be remotely likely... - even for the people hopeful about the program.

 

[scrapngen]

But this is not a new anything. They have not built any new Points only Marriott resorts. Any owner who converts to points or any new owner who buys points will stay in the same Marriott rooms and resorts that have been occupied by weeks owners for decades. Same resorts, same amenities, same room numbers, the same everything. The only thing new is that marriott wants you to pay more to continue to do what you paid to do when you originally purchased a Marriott week.

My car references were not addressing the room, but the system that surrounds the usage. Clearly a points system (new car) would be different than the current weeks system. (current nice car) Maybe I should say that the interior of the car is identical? LOL

I don't agree that Marriott is asking you to pay more to "continue to do what you paid to do when you originally purchased a Marriott week." To me, they potentially are asking you to pay more to be able to utilize your current ownership in a different way that is not possible with your original purchase. (new car)

Now, the scare tactic could be - if you choose not to purchase this enhancement (oooh, there we go, it's not a NEW car, it's money to make your car into a suped-up version!) - there will be problems down the road. Sure, it costs a little money, but now your gas milage is better, or your engine is more powerful, and/or whatever analogy fits. Keep your car the same if you wish. However, the new suped-up version - I don't know - wins more races? fits into parking places that you currently can't access? OK, let's go with that, since this will allow for a re-sale possible devaluation. Some people won't like the new look of the car. Some will think it is too expensive and not worth being able to get into small parking places. But others will jump at the idea. It's environmentally friendly as it has a smaller footprint. :rofl: Smaller size allows for better trades as they can be doubled up yet still retain that amazing interior. Gradually, parking places are restriped to only allow the new car to fit. Old car is too big (even though it still has the same interior). Sure, there are still some spaces available, but they are going away as more owners pay to sup-up their cars. But they will continue to have a perfectly good parking place at THEIR HOME RESORT. Can't take that away or change it according to the deed.

Disclaimer: I may have had too little sleep or too much Marriottjuana (just a joke, folks!) today...

 

[scrapngen]

Well you didn't REALLY complete the analogy all the way, so let's do that.

After you view the model in the dealership - and potentially decide not to buy, you go home and discover your old car in the garage from the same dealer is worth 50% less because the dealer said they'll stop producing spare parts for it...

Oh well - the dealer never did guarantee in writing any resale value or that they'll keep producing parts. How can you blame them for wanting to make higher margins on the next gen cars?

I do love this completion!
I guess as a potential counter, because we are all guessing at how resales will fair... I'd say that all things must gradually change with the times and eventually that great car becomes outdated over time as other companies roll out great new models with features that were not thought of/possible/or desirable at the time your car was designed. To keep many of your owners happy, you are offering a suped-up enhancement to your current vehicle. It makes your car environmentally more friendly and adds some features that make it more useful or up-to-date. Also, when you car-swap with another couple to get to a different location once in awhile, you are able to get into a better car and more or better locations because your enhanced car swaps better. You love your current car, most owners love their current car, yet also like some things they see in the neighbor's car and wish there car was more like the car next door. Most companies need to have something new to stay in business as times change and they need to compete with their competition.
Yes, it can be annoying, and is incomprehensible to some: Why change a perfectly good product that functions well. But still, newer products are out there with features that are not part of the current car. Why wouldn't a company want to earn some money and enhance their product??

 

[brianfox]

That would be really interesting. Now we don't know the number of points each place will be assigned or if 1000 or 10000 is a lot of points but this might be encouraging. People have speculated that places like Branson and Orlando might not fair too well as they are overbuilt. But this is showing that Branson and Hawaii aren't that far apart. Of course it could be that Hawaii is 2000 and Branson is 1000 so it is double but I doubt the absolute numbers will be that low.

Not to get off the subject regarding Branson strength, but this was my first trade with the property. It is a dog season (blue) and is typically only good for trades during Flex. I put the request in (request-first type) for 2BR Branson requesting 1BR Ko Olina - and only for one specific summer week. I was stunned it went through, but dtill think it was a fluke.

 

[dougp26364]

Have you seen the resale prices of Sunterra and DRI points. Also, the M F's are very high. I will keep my week.

Yes I've seen the resale prices. DRI doesn't exercise ROFR. Polo Towers resale prices were in the tank BEFORE they converted to Sunterra's points based system. The points based system didn't kill the resale values of the two weeks I owned.

As for MF's being high, the same can be said for Marriott right now. Sunterra's MF's were considerably lower before DRI took them over. If you're trying to compare DRI to Marriott, then you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[GregT]

Some hypotheses/assumptions first.

1. Marriott announce a Points-based system next week.

2. This system is optional, can be joined for US$169 per year, and membership includes 'group' II membership of some sort.

3. Points can be used (subject to conditions) to buy individual nights, weekends etc. subject to EXACTLY the restrictions already in-place in the AP program (IIRC individual nights 30 days in advance, and 3-day breaks 3 months in advance only)

My questions

Is that a welcome or unwelcome development ? (I know individual users will make decisions based upon valuations of their weeks, but overall is it a 'Bad Thing'?)

I've read all 83 pages, and while I lean toward Perry's mindset I'm wondering at whether the 'basic' changes above are really significant enought to cause problems?


(also, is there any reason apart from spite on Marriott's part why they would not allow re-sale owners to participate in this program?)

Would be interested in hearing peoples thoughts based upon the 'minimal' assumptions above.

Catharsis,

I think that would be a great program, especially if it preserved home resort advantage and found a way for people to keep their deeds and opt-in/out on a periodic basis depending on their travel needs.

We'll know more in a week or so -- and we'll have crushed the Aruba thread by then.

Thanks!

 

[tombo]

My car references were not addressing the room, but the system that surrounds the usage. Clearly a points system (new car) would be different than the current weeks system. (current nice car) Maybe I should say that the interior of the car is identical? LOL

I don't agree that Marriott is asking you to pay more to "continue to do what you paid to do when you originally purchased a Marriott week." To me, they potentially are asking you to pay more to be able to utilize your current ownership in a different way that is not possible with your original purchase. (new car)

Now, the scare tactic could be - if you choose not to purchase this enhancement (oooh, there we go, it's not a NEW car, it's money to make your car into a suped-up version!) - there will be problems down the road. Sure, it costs a little money, but now your gas milage is better, or your engine is more powerful, and/or whatever analogy fits. Keep your car the same if you wish. However, the new suped-up version - I don't know - wins more races? fits into parking places that you currently can't access? OK, let's go with that, since this will allow for a re-sale possible devaluation. Some people won't like the new look of the car. Some will think it is too expensive and not worth being able to get into small parking places. But others will jump at the idea. It's environmentally friendly as it has a smaller footprint. :rofl: Smaller size allows for better trades as they can be doubled up yet still retain that amazing interior. Gradually, parking places are restriped to only allow the new car to fit. Old car is too big (even though it still has the same interior). Sure, there are still some spaces available, but they are going away as more owners pay to sup-up their cars. But they will continue to have a perfectly good parking place at THEIR HOME RESORT. Can't take that away or change it according to the deed.

Disclaimer: I may have had too little sleep or too much Marriottjuana (just a joke, folks!) today...

I understand I will still have my home resort to stay in with a guaranteed parking spot, but if I currently have parking places at resorts all over the world, and if Marriott is going to extort money for me to be able to continue to have available parking spots around the world, then in essence I have paid a ransom to prevent myself from losing tha ability to do something I can already do. Of course if a new rental car comes with the parking space, free valet parking, free wash and vacuum, then i would be getting something new, but do not sell the new program by threatening to take away my ability to trade for parking spots outside of my home resort. Roll out a new program that people will join on it's merits, not because of threats of loss of use.

The reality of points as Marriott stated it in their poll is that there will be little advantage over the current system and it will come with what we can only assume will be a huge price tag. If you can't book anything less than 7 days in length until SIX months out when 7 days points exchanges are made at the 12 month point, you are kidding yourself to think that good dates at good locations will be available for your long 3 day or 4 day weekend. The other thing they said was that single night stays would be offered ONE month before check in. Give me a break. Call right now and see how many trades are available for June and that is indicative of how many single nights will be available for points members. Call right now and see how many Christmas ski weeks and January ski weeks are available at less than 7 months before check-in, but not yet to the 6 month less than 7 day reservation window, and my guess is zero availability of anywhere you would like to vacation.

The theory is that you will get to take a long weekend at the beach, at the ski resort, added on to a business trip once the points program is implemented. The reality is that people wil book all the good inventory at the 12 month mark as soon as it is available, just like they do now.

With points you can take a 2 bed room week in theory and get 2 one bed room weeks. First if you own a lock off unit you can already do that. Second once again reality might be different than theory. I am supposed to get 2 bed units for my 2 bed exchange (non lock off), but when I asked for availability in Aruba I was told I could take a one bed room unit because that was all that is available. Points doesn't increase availability. If you want a specific week/resort and you have one million points and there is no availability, you will not get the exchange. Unfortunatelly if the points program does well it will actually DECREASE availability for the weeks owners who don't pay the extortion and convert.

For a reasonable conversion fee most people would convert IMO if they don't require you to put your deed into a Marriott trust and if the annual MF's for points aren't too expensive. However with hungry salesmen paid purely on commission I can only assume it will be a high dollar expensive program designed to line the pockets of Marriott and their sales force while emptying the pockets of owners. We will see soon.

 

[Asia2000]

Does anyone have a price list from Marriott as to what each resort sells for today (from Marriott)?

 

[Pro]

This place has gone totally insane without me.

ROTFLMAO !!!

 

[NJMOM2]

Does anyone have a price list from Marriott as to what each resort sells for today (from Marriott)?

Here is a link of all the MCVI resorts. It's not a price list but if you select each resort and click on Price on the menu on the right side of the screen you can find the price range for the selected resort. They update the price regularly.

http://www.marriottvacationclub.com/vacation-resorts/index.html

 

[jin]

I have to mention something that concerns points that happened not one hour ago...

I was on the phone with II Marriott desk. I got an exchange during Flex (into 1BR Hawaii for a 2BR Marriott Branson), and I was asking the rep if, since the trade occurred in Flex, we could trade a 1BR Branson from a different year instead of the 2BR. The agent went away to discuss it with her superior and came back to tell me that they could not do the alternate exchange because the 1BR Branson didn't have enough trading power.

But here's the thing....

What she told me was that the Marriott Branson did not have enough "POINTS". I told her that was the first time I ever heard that word uttered by anyone at II. She went on to say that the Marriott Branson week "was about 1,000 POINTS shy of qualifying for the exchange". I asked her again what she meant by points, and she was silent for a moment and told me it didn't have the trading power.

I believe I said to her "I have a feeling I just heard something I wasn't supposed to hear"...

Don't know if it means anything at all, but remember - this was the Marriott desk of II.

Any thoughts on this?

Because this unit was in flexchange, you should have been able to trade your 1 br unit from next year --- during flexchange, trading power is irrelevant from my understanding. I believe the agent was wrong, and I would try and correct this within 24 hours..... Pete

 

[DanCali]

We had almost 7 hours without a post in this thread - incredible!