Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[PerryM]

So if what you're worried about doesn't exist with any other points based system, why do you believe that Marriott, a very well respected name in the timeshare business, will be the first one to screw their owners over? After nearly 10 years as a Marriott owner, I've come to the conclusion that Marriott treats me as well, if not better, than any other timeshare developer or manager of resorts. I see NOTHING in their history as far as timeshare developement to make me believe that Marriott will be the first one to insitute such a poor internal system and abuse their owners in the manner you have suggested throughout this thread.

When it comes down to it, you're interest's are self serving. You bought a cheap week to manipulate the present exchange system. When the system changes, so does your ability to manipulate the system. I'm in the same boat with my studio lock-off and one bedroom lock-off units that I've used all these years to trade up within the Marriott system. The difference is, I can accept that change is a part of the equation. You seem to think that there's a huge sign up at Marriott's corporate office encouraging Marriott employee's to screw Perry and his resale purchased Gold week at Summit Watch. Marriott is NOT out to get you. They will, however, need to keep up with the changing times in order to stay competitive. IMHO, this change has been a long time coming and is long overdue.

I know, I'm a bad person....

 

[indyhorizons]

We could use tax examples but that might get political so lets talk timeshare maint and fees. A resort must decide what and how much to pay for each and every item and in many cases, whether to pay for something at all. These may include pools, workout rooms, beach access, play areas, security, midweek cleanings, etc, etc. Not every person will use every item and many will end up paying for things they don't use. Is this fair? Depends on the specifics for that item. Will some be upset even if it's fair? The answer a resounding yes for those that can't see the big picture. I try to see the big picture in such matters. Will we disagree on certain items? absolutely.

Here's where we differ, yet again. I try not to worry needlessly about the minutae (sp) of whether I am utilizing all of the things that my money goes for (taxes or timeshare maitnenance fees, either of these examples will suffice). I'm sure alot of both go to many things I don't agree with either. But in the end, I do use some things, (in the tax example: roads/infrastructure, i have access to emergency response-though I haven't had to use it, but its there,etc. the same goes for timeshare maintenance fees, we use the pools, and participate in resort activities, etc.). the difference between these two things is with taxes, I don't have much choice,other than if I can choose to elect different officials who make the decisions, but the ts is something i have chosen to do, right? If it gets to be where I no longer enjoy the same conveniences due to changes that I don't agree with (in this case, less usage because of a new system (merely an example, this obviously hasn't be proven to be the case yet)), then I have a choice to make here. I can choose to a) continue to stay with II and take my chances b) go to the new system (whatever that consists of) or 3)and here is the big one- sell my timeshares all together and move on. It' all about choice isn't it?

 

[dougp26364]

I know, I'm a bad person....

On the other hand you've given everyone something to obsesively converse about. Something no one knows actually has any facts that would give real substance to the conversation. Basically, you've shown a talent for getting people worked up over something that can't be proven. Do you by chance hold a political office?

As far as manipulating the system.......me to. I fear that I won't get as much milage out of a new points system as I'm getting right now. The good news is, they can't force me to change.

 

[DanCali]

3)and here is the big one- sell my timeshares all together and move on. It' all about choice isn't it?

Sure - but if the new systems devalues your equity by 20%-40% then you still have a good reason to gripe. It's clear to me that not all people here feel the same way. I on the other hand do monitor and care about the resale value of what I own since I view the depreciation as one of the costs of ownership, along with maintenance and opportunity costs (not unlike a car)

As I said before - any "enhancement" CAN be done without an adverse impact on resale prices. We'll see what in fact will be done...

 

[puckmanfl]

Hi..

Why do we continue to disparage poor Perry for getting great usage out of his Gold Summitt watch week. He is just doing what the sales force said he could. While at Summitt Watch on a ski trip, I went to a sales tour where the rep tried to sell me a (you guessed it) a Gold Summitt Watch week. I asked Why? I was told about how you can lock it off, deposit both halves and just get great trades. Perry is just doing what the product was intended for as per the sales rep!!!

The reason that there is just so much passion on this thread is that Perry is not the only one using the system as it was "sold" to us!! Exchanging is a big part of the equation. Hopefully the new system will keep it this way!!!

 

[SueDonJ]

Sure - but if the new systems devalues your equity by 20%-40% then you still have a good reason to gripe. It's clear to me that not all people here feel the same way. I on the other hand do monitor and care about the resale value of what I won since I view the depreciation as one of the costs of ownership, along with maintenance and opportunity costs (not unlike a car)

As I said before - any "enhancement" CAN be done without an adverse impact on resale prices. We'll see what in fact will be done...

Ha. I know it should be "own" but it's still a good mindtrick. Like you won't consider yourself a winner in whatever new thing comes out?

 

[dougp26364]

Hi..

Why do we continue to disparage poor Perry for getting great usage out of his Gold Summitt watch week. He is just doing what the sales force said he could. While at Summitt Watch on a ski trip, I went to a sales tour where the rep tried to sell me a (you guessed it) a Gold Summitt Watch week. I asked Why? I was told about how you can lock it off, deposit both halves and just get great trades. Perry is just doing what the product was intended for as per the sales rep!!!

The reason that there is just so much passion on this thread is that Perry is not the only one using the system as it was "sold" to us!! Exchanging is a big part of the equation. Hopefully the new system will keep it this way!!!

I'm not. I've been doing the same thing with my Silver season studio lock-off at Ocean Pointe. I will, however, stand on the ground that just because my little deal might be coming to an end doesn't mean that change is bad for everyone. In fact, I believe that this change will benefit the majority of Marriott owners in the long run. Change does not make Marriott evil or bad and it does not indicate that Marriott is out to screw their owners or abuse the system. It just means that the exchange landscape for timeshare has changed. The majority of major hotel brands the manage timeshare now have some sort of internal points based exchange system. Marriott has been very late to this party IMHO.

You must always understand that what was "sold" to us was the right to use one week in a specified type of timeshare during a specified season. Everything else, like Marriott Rewards points, is all fluff. What is not in writing can/will be changed. Exchanging is fluff and the manner in which exchanges are made or the exchange power of your owned week is always subject to change. Owners have a tough time distinguishing what they purchased from what was sold. You purchased the RTU a timeshare week but you were sold a dream.

 

[dougp26364]

Sure - but if the new systems devalues your equity by 20%-40% then you still have a good reason to gripe. It's clear to me that not all people here feel the same way. I on the other hand do monitor and care about the resale value of what I won since I view the depreciation as one of the costs of ownership, along with maintenance and opportunity costs (not unlike a car)

As I said before - any "enhancement" CAN be done without an adverse impact on resale prices. We'll see what in fact will be done...

Are you depreciating your timeshare on your taxes? I didn't know that timeshares had a depreciable value. In fact, I was of the understanding the developers were forbidden to sell timeshare as any sort of investment.

The preceived deperciation of a timeshare is just that, preceived. These changes may or may not affect the resale value of your timeshare. Of more importance is that fact that Marriott is no longer exercising ROFR. That alone has caused the resale value of Marriott timeshares to plumet. Should Marriott ever consider using ROFR again, I suspect you'll see values rise. ROFR will have a greater affect on your timeshares "cash" value more than any internal points exchange program.

One other thought, who really knows how Marriott will treat resale weeks? It's been speculated upon but there is nothing in writing. You're making assumptions based on speculation. Never a wise thing to do.

 

[indyhorizons]

I'm glad to hear you're not having an issue booking your weeks.



I understand about the 50% inventory restriction at 13 mos. In my prior post, I said:

"a good chunk of weeks has already been booked by owners with the 13 mo. advantage"

I would define 50% of the inventory as "a good chunk."



I didn't mean to imply that all Marriott owners have problems reserving at their home resorts. I said in my earlier post:

"The one consistent complaint I have read about from Marriott owners is not being able to reserve their home resort at 12 mos. out when trying for a peak week."

Again, that is something that I've never heard a Starwood owner complain about. When trying to figure out why this would be an issue specifically with Marriott, I think it likely has to do with the desire to reserve peak weeks not just for personal use, but because of a wish to maximize trade power in II by depositing peak weeks in II, and secondarily, because "a good chunk" of the inventory is not available to single week owners when they get their first crack at making a reservation. If I owned at Canyon Villas and was unable to make a March spring training reservation at 12 mos., I would be extremely disappointed. This has never happened to me in all the years I have owned at Westin Kierland or Sheraton Desert Oasis. In fact, several times I've forgotten to call first thing and still was able to get my reservations made. I find it unlikely that Starwood owners have significantly less interest in using peak weeks than their Marriott counterparts.

I am happy that you're able to make the reservations you want, and of course, it's good to hear that side as well.

Glorian

In my opinion, and its just that an opinion, a good chunk would be MORE THAN 50%. 50% is just that, or half. When someone uses the term good chunk, it usually signifies a larger portion that that which is given to the other portion. Just my two cents...

 

[indyhorizons]

Will we see these types of posts on the Marriott board 2-3 years from now?

Several thousand dollars down, and a few more gray hairs it'll be back to:

"All you can really count on is the continued ability to reserve your own unit at your own resort for your own week".

Oh wait - Marriott may take away home resort advantage too...

Great thread/example. Thanks Dan...

 

[DanCali]

Are you depreciating your timeshare on your taxes? I didn't know that timeshares had a depreciable value. In fact, I was of the understanding the developers were forbidden to sell timeshare as any sort of investment.

I'm not depreciating my car either nor can I take a capital loss on it.

But when one buys a car isn't "resale value" (or "residual value" as you'd call it in case you lease) a consideration? And isn't the difference between the purchase price today and the future resale price the depreciation? The difference between what you buy something for and what you sell it for (or depreciation, as I called it) is a true cost. In fact, this cost is the main reason not to buy a retail timeshare...

And, by the way, the personal tax code differs from the corporate tax code. I'm not an accounting person but if a corporation was in the business of buying timeshares to rent for a profit (say "DanCali Rentals Inc.") - couldn't they actually depreciate the timeshares? IMO depreciation or "marking to market" would make sense. Just a hypothetical argument... I have no desire to be a vacation landlord

But depreciating for tax purposes or not has nothing to do with it being an actual cost. It's just a matter of what the IRS lets you do...

One other thought, who really knows how Marriott will treat resale weeks? It's been speculated upon but there is nothing in writing. You're making assumptions based on speculation. Never a wise thing to do.

I thought the topic of the thread relates to the value of resale weeks... We've been speculating for months and over 1900 posts

 

[indyhorizons]

Sure - but if the new systems devalues your equity by 20%-40% then you still have a good reason to gripe. It's clear to me that not all people here feel the same way. I on the other hand do monitor and care about the resale value of what I won since I view the depreciation as one of the costs of ownership, along with maintenance and opportunity costs (not unlike a car)

As I said before - any "enhancement" CAN be done without an adverse impact on resale prices. We'll see what in fact will be done...

After joining TUG, and also after buying a resale unit myself, I've never thought that I would get what I paid. Unlike yourself, I bought in Orlando (where I know it is oversold). I have been very fortunate to get every exchange that I have ever wanted in 10 years, except 1, inlcuding a 2br unit at Ko Olina in July, so I've been fortunate. However, IF I decide to sell,I will take what I can get and move on. End of story.

 

[PerryM]

Burning bridges towards the future...

Hi..

Why do we continue to disparage poor Perry for getting great usage out of his Gold Summitt watch week. He is just doing what the sales force said he could. While at Summitt Watch on a ski trip, I went to a sales tour where the rep tried to sell me a (you guessed it) a Gold Summitt Watch week. I asked Why? I was told about how you can lock it off, deposit both halves and just get great trades. Perry is just doing what the product was intended for as per the sales rep!!!

The reason that there is just so much passion on this thread is that Perry is not the only one using the system as it was "sold" to us!! Exchanging is a big part of the equation. Hopefully the new system will keep it this way!!!

Sadly I don't have current ARDA stats for the past year or so but the last time I looked EXCHANGING was the #1 reason to buy a timeshare and not actual year-after-year occupation of the unit.

So where does that put all the folks who drag out the deed and point to the only thing that is guaranteed - the chance to make a reservation, and that's just a probability of getting what you are "entitled to".

Don't know how those stats apply to Marriott but since Marriott is dumping selling timeshares to get into the Points reservation club business I'm guessing its a big part of why Marriott want's to go down this path and burn the timeshare weeks bridge behind it.

P.S.
It's going to be fun to read what an owner "gets" when they turn over their deed to an exchange club trust. Are they entitled to a certain number of Points per year, or a certain number of days per year, or is Marriott just going to say "Trust us you'll get what's coming to you".

 

[indyhorizons]

Sadly I don't have current ARDA stats for the past year or so but the last time I looked EXCHANGING was the #1 reason to buy a timeshare and not actual year-after-year occupation of the unit.

So where does that put all the folks who drag out the deed and point to the only thing that is guaranteed - the chance to make a reservation, and that's just a probability of getting what you are "entitled to".

Don't know how those stats apply to Marriott but since Marriott is dumping selling timeshares to get into the Points reservation club business I'm guessing its a big part of why Marriott want's to go down this path and burn the timeshare weeks bridge behind it.

P.S.
It's going to be fun to read what an owner "gets" when they turn over their deed to an exchange club trust. Are they entitled to a certain number of Points per year, or a certain number of days per year, or is Marriott just
going to say "Trust us you'll get what's coming to you".

LOL! Perry.

 

[Dean]

Timeshares are not ipods or ipads. They do not sell themselves. Selling retail timeshares is an art form that requires extremely high sales and people skills.

Now take some of the best salespeople in the industry and pit them against the 90% least educated owners. Do you think they stand a chance? Will they understand or be told what they are giving up when they are presented with arrays of options, packages, seasons, fact and figures, prices, discounts, new prices, good for today prices, points, incentives, flex vacations, free vacations and arrows pointing in 25 different directions? Let alone the unsuspecting first time buyer...

But the same is true for cars, insurance, etc, etc. Certainly a court will tend to side with the consumer when these issues are not clear cut assuming it gets to that point as it essentially never does. Being unsophisticated is not a crime, nor is being better than your client at the interpersonal game.

Let's get real here - 95% of the folks who bought from Marriott never took the paperwork to a lawyer to review. I never did and in Park City the right to rescind is 5 days so by the time I got home it was too late.

Folks bought from Marriott because they knew the name and trusted the company - they don't have a lawyer on speed dial as a general rule.

They were sold a timeshare and hours were spent explaining how it all worked BEFORE they bought. Nowhere in that briefing did a Marriott representative declare "Marriott has the right to change anything we want for as long as we want" - nobody gave that speech.

So Ma and Pa bought what was taught to them - a week based Marriott timeshare.

Now Marriott is going to exercise that little clause "Marriott has the right to change anything we want for as long as we want" and completely change Ma and Pa's definition of a timeshare as Marriott taught them.

Of course Marriott can do this to us, and of course Ma and Pa should have stopped their vacation and sought out a lawyer to review their documents before the right to rescind expired but none of them did.

Marriott will find out next week what Ma and Pa think of the Gotcha Marriott is about to pull. Will they understand Marriott's legal team or will the feel snookered? Let's find out.

If you look at all the political polls right now the American public seems to be really riled up with just about everything - how will they look at Marriott's sea-change? I don't know.

They all had the option and opportunity to seek out a lawyer if they chose, not doing so, they would assume the inherent risks involved. I'm guessing that a large segment of the Marriott membership will be all for a good points system, the question is going to be how to be included (costs, etc).

Is it not possible that you give this right up if you agree to convert to the point system? Isn't that what DRI owners do when they join the Trust? Nobody can make you join so it is up to each person. The more I think about it, the more I decide not to join but they may not even ask us as we are fixed. The sales person told us that we didn't need to worry about it so she may have meant that we will not be asked.

Sure, but the choice is yours. That's not to say they won't put pressure on you and take away many of the current benefits and options as part of that pressure.

As I've said before on this thread, if I was that suspicious of a company, I wouldn't own with them, PERIOD, not matter how good the deal. We can't make any specific decisions or judgements based on a possible plan until we see what it is, we can talk about it a lot though. Marriott has the right to run their company, and to make changes in their company model. They do have certain obligations currently due to contractual issues mostly on management contracts. They can walk away from any resort they want going forward (and likely will 2 or 3).

Here's where we differ, yet again. I try not to worry needlessly about the minutae (sp) of whether I am utilizing all of the things that my money goes for (taxes or timeshare maitnenance fees, either of these examples will suffice). I'm sure alot of both go to many things I don't agree with either. But in the end, I do use some things, (in the tax example: roads/infrastructure, i have access to emergency response-though I haven't had to use it, but its there,etc. the same goes for timeshare maintenance fees, we use the pools, and participate in resort activities, etc.). the difference between these two things is with taxes, I don't have much choice,other than if I can choose to elect different officials who make the decisions, but the ts is something i have chosen to do, right? If it gets to be where I no longer enjoy the same conveniences due to changes that I don't agree with (in this case, less usage because of a new system (merely an example, this obviously hasn't be proven to be the case yet)), then I have a choice to make here. I can choose to a) continue to stay with II and take my chances b) go to the new system (whatever that consists of) or 3)and here is the big one- sell my timeshares all together and move on. It' all about choice isn't it?

There will be lots of choices but you or I may not like the choices or costs associated and we may not have the choices we want. Seems interesting not to worry about maint fees but to worry excessively about possible changes that haven't happened yet and all we have is enough info to speculate. I'll chose to put some faith in Marriott but not blindly. Actually I suspect selling altogether will be the best choice for a subset of the membership.

Hi..

Why do we continue to disparage poor Perry for getting great usage out of his Gold Summitt watch week. He is just doing what the sales force said he could. While at Summitt Watch on a ski trip, I went to a sales tour where the rep tried to sell me a (you guessed it) a Gold Summitt Watch week. I asked Why? I was told about how you can lock it off, deposit both halves and just get great trades. Perry is just doing what the product was intended for as per the sales rep!!!

The reason that there is just so much passion on this thread is that Perry is not the only one using the system as it was "sold" to us!! Exchanging is a big part of the equation. Hopefully the new system will keep it this way!!!

Actually I don't believe that's quite true. I don't believe anyone has posted that it's a problem that Perry has done well learning and using the system, I've likely done better than he has to be honest. I think the issue is that his intentions come into question. Is he talking down the system because he really believes what he says on principle or is he just trying to keep status quo for preservation of his ability to beat out the other members to get what he wants, my interpretation is a little of both. I'll say again that I don't recall any contractual language on exchanges that would protect me in these matters. I put no credibility on what the system was at the time or what the salesperson said.

Are you depreciating your timeshare on your taxes? I didn't know that timeshares had a depreciable value. In fact, I was of the understanding the developers were forbidden to sell timeshare as any sort of investment.

The preceived deperciation of a timeshare is just that, preceived. These changes may or may not affect the resale value of your timeshare. Of more importance is that fact that Marriott is no longer exercising ROFR. That alone has caused the resale value of Marriott timeshares to plumet. Should Marriott ever consider using ROFR again, I suspect you'll see values rise. ROFR will have a greater affect on your timeshares "cash" value more than any internal points exchange program.

One other thought, who really knows how Marriott will treat resale weeks? It's been speculated upon but there is nothing in writing. You're making assumptions based on speculation. Never a wise thing to do.

In many states they're not allowed to sell it as an investment of rental or resale and are required to specifically include language in the POS to that effect. Even for stocks many financial experts make the point that it isn't really a loss until you sell. I get that one might have bought something for $20K that you know is now worth $2K and that bothers some but it has no real meaning if you don't intend to sell. While I have gone against my own advice a a couple of times times of not buying timeshares as an investment, in general it is a fool game to do so other than an investment in future vacations.

 

[m61376]

I know of know points program run by a hotel chain where the owners are complaining about the phantom issues we post about on this thread. Sure Starwood owners are unhappy about their MF's but, I don't see them complaining about their points based exchange system.

I agree with most of your post- but we should keep in mind that Starwood has, in fact, played fast and loose with their point allotment in order to promote sales. I understand that it was such an issue that they later had to up the point value for WSJ and/or Harborside (I don't remember exactly). The bottom line is, though, that there was future point devaluation (by virtue of the fact that newer resorts were assigned an inordinate amount of points, inconsistent with realistic market value). So at least some of the owners did complain about Starwood's point based exchanges. The eventual outcome of these complaints- Starwood owners at other resorts virtually never can reserve prime weeks at these resorts, because the owners either use them, rent them, or arrange private trades. It just is not cost effective for them to do otherwise, because they feel the points assigned are insufficient.

I am not saying Marriott will do this, but just as many Hawaii owners today feel like they are trading down and are reticent to deposit their full 2BR unit, in a point system they may feel that way in the future, esp. as new resorts are introduced.

Starwood does have home resort priority and, from the posts I've read on the other forum, there are many instances where prime weeks are not available to others owning elsewhere.

IF there is no home resort priority, then it is a free for all competition. I am sure I will be proved wrong, but I can't see why any owner of a premium week would want to convert to points and give up home resort priority. Personally, I don't want to compete with owners at other resorts to book a Feb. Aruba week. Right now I have no trouble booking week 5- one of the highest demand weeks- and I want to keep it that way.

 

[DanCali]

But the same is true for cars, insurance, etc, etc. Certainly a court will tend to side with the consumer when these issues are not clear cut assuming it gets to that point as it essentially never does. Being unsophisticated is not a crime, nor is being better than your client at the interpersonal game.

A car salesperson is a saint compared to the blatant lies some timeshare salespeople spew. How many times in the last few months have we heard here on TUG about (mostly the Ko'Olina) salespeople telling prospective buyers that resale units have a disadvantage booking home resort? How many people who didn't find TUG or were bold enough to ask heard that nonesense and fell for it?

I also don't recall a car salesperson making me sign that everything I heard orally doesn't count or that if I sell the car the A/C will not function (analogy to no hotel points when you sell it - and implying indirectly it's worth much less on the resale market). Heck, I even bought a new car once, drove it for 400 miles and sold it on the resale market for a profit over the dealer MSRP... good luck pulling that one off with a retail timeshare.

If all timeshare presentations were recorded and could be entered as evidence in a dispute - I'd be on your side on this one. Unfortunately, developer timeshares sales are still often based on deceipt of the buyers...

 

[sandytoes]

What's changing in June????

OK . . . this is a very long thread . . . I've been trying to catch up but can not figure out what's going to change in June. Can anyone in a nut shell give me a summary or point me to the location in this tread that indicated what everyone is so excited about. I love my "bought from Marriott" time share and have never had a problem with any exchange I tried to get. I have also loved using my points. Whatever is happening . . . I don't think Marriott is going to delibertly make a good product bad or intentionally tick off owners . . . I may be wrong but since I am not sure what is happening but I will wait to see.

 

[brigechols]

OK . . . this is a very long thread . . . I've been trying to catch up but can not figure out what's going to change in June. Can anyone in a nut shell give me a summary or point me to the location in this tread that indicated what everyone is so excited about. I love my "bought from Marriott" time share and have never had a problem with any exchange I tried to get. I have also loved using my points. Whatever is happening . . . I don't think Marriott is going to delibertly make a good product bad or intentionally tick off owners . . . I may be wrong but since I am not sure what is happening but I will wait to see.

here is the best summary yet

As a public service gesture here is a recap of this thread to date:

[...................]

I hope you got that.

Marriott is going to make some kind of announcement "soon" and it probably has something to do with an Internal Points Exchange System and perhaps a total upheaval of how they sell timeshares.

Oh, and the Marriott salesreps say "we will like it".

That just about sums it up - and a lot of guessing on just about everyone's part.

So here it is again:

[...................]

 

[PerryM]

Too true...

...
Actually I don't believe that's quite true. I don't believe anyone has posted that it's a problem that Perry has done well learning and using the system, I've likely done better than he has to be honest. I think the issue is that his intentions come into question. Is he talking down the system because he really believes what he says on principle or is he just trying to keep status quo for preservation of his ability to beat out the other members to get what he wants, my interpretation is a little of both. I'll say again that I don't recall any contractual language on exchanges that would protect me in these matters. I put no credibility on what the system was at the time or what the salesperson said.
...

Absolutely correct!

You know what's going to be a kick in the head- all those Marriott owners too stupid to get a lawyer to review their original sales documents are going to do the same damn thing all over again as they sign away their weeks into the new system.

So how do you feel sorry for 95% of the folks being that stupid?

I'm not trying to be holier than thou since I'm in that 95% camp but honestly folks what's wrong with us?

 

[puckmanfl]

Hi

Here I go again...

Not to be a Perry apologist, but he is not "cutting in front of the line" for what he wants. Perry deposits his beloved Gold Summitt Watch week either in its entirety or in its lock off halves. He makes his requests via II. He then waits for owners of his desired weeks to deposit. Then, higher ranked MVCI weeks get first dibs. Within the 24 day Internal priority the weaker MVCI weeks pick up the scraps. Any weeks that "up traders" get are "passed" on by other MVCI customers. Within the Flexchange window Perry and others that are flexible can "snag" a bit of "homefield" advantage by scouring the "waiver wire" at 4 am (especially on Saturday mornings) when lots o' primo inventory become available.

I am hopeful the new system will have many benefits and I am sure we will all play by the new rules and do just fine!!!

 

[dougp26364]

Sadly I don't have current ARDA stats for the past year or so but the last time I looked EXCHANGING was the #1 reason to buy a timeshare and not actual year-after-year occupation of the unit.

So where does that put all the folks who drag out the deed and point to the only thing that is guaranteed - the chance to make a reservation, and that's just a probability of getting what you are "entitled to".

Don't know how those stats apply to Marriott but since Marriott is dumping selling timeshares to get into the Points reservation club business I'm guessing its a big part of why Marriott want's to go down this path and burn the timeshare weeks bridge behind it.

P.S.
It's going to be fun to read what an owner "gets" when they turn over their deed to an exchange club trust. Are they entitled to a certain number of Points per year, or a certain number of days per year, or is Marriott just going to say "Trust us you'll get what's coming to you".

We'll be at Mountain Valley Lodge in a couple of weeks. While I don't plan on doing an owners update, I do plan on going to the owners usage meeting to see what they have to say. Hopefully Marriott will have let the cat out of the bag by then and maybe I can get some decent surface information.

I'd love to believe they'll go with a deeded weeks converted to points value for internal exchanges but, I fear it will be the "trust us" version instead.

 

[dougp26364]

OK . . . this is a very long thread . . . I've been trying to catch up but can not figure out what's going to change in June. Can anyone in a nut shell give me a summary or point me to the location in this tread that indicated what everyone is so excited about. I love my "bought from Marriott" time share and have never had a problem with any exchange I tried to get. I have also loved using my points. Whatever is happening . . . I don't think Marriott is going to delibertly make a good product bad or intentionally tick off owners . . . I may be wrong but since I am not sure what is happening but I will wait to see.

That's what I keep trying to get at. There is NOTHING to get excited about.....yet. It's to early to cry the sky is falling and the world as we know it is ending. It's to early to say that Marriott is going to screw ever existing owner over with any new internal points system that has yet to be announce. This entire thread is a nearly perfect example of an exercise in futility. What could be productive conversation of what might or might not happen and what to look for is over shadowed by those who think the end is near.

The playing field may be changing for internal Marriott to Marriott exchanges. THAT'S ALL. Nothing more, nothing less. Until we actually SEE the new program none of us has a clue how it will or won't affect us. We can only look at other points based systems to get an idea of what Marriott might be planning. To be honest, Marriott owners have coveted points based internal systems where they aren't competing with outsiders to get Marriott units. Now that it might happen, along comes this thread promoting any change as bad for Marriott owners and Marriott is going to stick it to all of us stupid people.

 

[davidvel]

It's 7:59:59 AM CST the morning MOC owners want to reserve Christmas week 12 months out. They are at their PC and know they have a 1 in 200 (or whatever) chance of getting a 2BR over Christmas. 8:00 AM and they click the button for the reservation.

Seconds go by, then 30 seconds, and finally 1 minute 45 seconds later the screen comes back and says "No inventory left". What happened?

Well the Marriott reservation system, the same one you are showing on your PC, simply started an automated version and activated 200 Instances of it in .01 second.

You don't stand a chance.

Perry, Sue is correct and you are incorrect (and I know you know it). You simply misstate the law applicable to the Marriott timeshare system to further the hysteria. Marriott cannot implement any preferential reservation system, computer, etc. that gives particular owners an advantage over others. In fact, as I have stated before, I will be lead counsel (with no upfront fee) if they do. The HOA has an obligation to treat each owner equally with equal ability to enjoy the benefits of the timeshare declaration. Period, end of story.

Now this probably will be challenged in court and if Marriott has to hire 200 part time moms sitting at the kitchen table to be their agent they will.

Oh, now you acknowledge that they can't legally rig the system and they'll get 200 people to call in for the 200 units in their "trust." Well that is no different than the same 200 owners calling in today...although I still see no basis to rationally believe they would.

- - -

My guess (worth as much as the last thousand something posts) is that this won't be any new internal trading system at all. Just a change to a points system of some sort for new sales of timeshare intervals going forward. We'll still all be using II for trades.

 

[DanCali]

Marriott cannot implement any preferential reservation system, computer, etc. that gives particular owners an advantage over others. In fact, as I have stated before, I will be lead counsel (with no upfront fee) if they do.

Not to take Marriott's side on this but if Marriott does book at 9am before everyone else why is that an unfair advantage? Anyone can write a Java application that logs into the website at 9am EST at 12 months out and makes a reservation on their behalf... I haven't seen a rule against it. It'd be quite useful for those on the West coast!