Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[billymach4]

Can you imagine if....

Nothing at all changes after next week. No announcement, no news, just business as usual!

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[DeniseM]

Nothing at all changes after next week. No announcement, no news, just business as usual!

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

It could happen - when Starwood made their big change with II last August, there was no announcement for months and we basically had to piece it together ourselves.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

It could happen - when Starwood made their big change with II last August, there was no announcement for months and we basically had to piece it together ourselves.

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Folks: Check out this link for an insight as to what may be happening 6/16/10



http://www.thetimeshareauthority.co...system-at-marriott-vacation-club-is-changing/




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Actually, in reading the article again, it shows a start date of 7/16/2009, so this is actually "old news"

 

[billymach4]

.



Folks: Check out this link for an insight as to what may be happening 6/16/10



http://www.thetimeshareauthority.co...system-at-marriott-vacation-club-is-changing/




.

That is old news? Story about MRP's not new system?

 

[Dean]

But, Dean, don't rack rental rates already take that market analysis into account, and reflect market conditions in an area? The law of supply and demand dictates the prices set for a business to sustain itself; Marriott's average rental rates (including their average discounted rates where they apply) are set to maximize their rental and takes into account all those studies. The reality is, if they can get $500 for a July room in HH they will charge it, and if they can only get $250 for the same week elsewhere, that's all they will charge (I'm just making up numbers here for illustrative purposes). They charge $850 for a villa in Aruba in January because people are willing to pay it, or 1K plus for a holiday ski week. You and I may not be willing to pay it, but that's what the market dictates they're worth, because in many cases those villas are sold out. Last Feb. I needed another room, and I was shocked to see what the minimum prices I could find for any of the Marriott Aruba properties, and some of the options were sold out for the dates I needed. Clearly, people rented them and were paying the rates. Not everyone uses Priceline; a lot of people like to know where they are going.

And, yes, it is true that rack rental rates get discounted, but more or less the discounts are across the board. My guess is that the rates are set such that every property gets a high percentage of their posted rates, and that percentage is probably very similar averaged over time. Marriott doesn't just arbitrarily assign a rack rate; the rates already reflect supply, demand, location, quality, etc.. That's why I feel they are probably the most objective assessment.

Rack rates have some basis it's just that I feel the actual rental rates overall are more reflective of RELATIVE and ABSOLUTE value because they adjust for market forces and changing trends while the rack rate is more of an upfront guess. Certainly a guess that has some basis, I'd agree.

good morning...

Crystal ball time again...

If platinum maintenance fees go up by 60% (such as the example of $1000 to $1600) in the previous post, I don't believe there will be many conversions. MVCI needs the plat. weeks in the system. They have plenty of November Orlando weeks already in the system for points. They need the ski weeks, summer in HHI and winter in Florida to "sell the dream". Any system is going to be setup initially to entice the owners of these weeks to jump in!!!

My current MF's for my 2 ey and 3 eoy's are $4.7K/year. If this jumps to $7.1K, I will be enjoying home unit usage and trading with II and hoping for the best.

A side benefit might be an INCREASE in resale values. You can snag a ski week on resale for 1/2 costs + $1000 in MF's in contrast to paying full value retail to purchase enough points to access a ski week + $1600 in MF's. The deeded week might look pretty sweet...

I don't think they could swing that at existing resorts but certainly could for new resorts that were points based only. It simply depends on how they approach it.

The 13 month rule is tied into reservation procedures in the Declaration of Condominuim documents in many resorts and cannot be arbitrarily changed by Marriott. I any conflict between the Declaration of Condominium documents i and the reservations procedure is created, the Declaration of Condominium document prevails.

Not true. If you'll read the info on reservations in the POS, you'll see that Marriott has the right to make changes without member input. Also, all of the older resorts do not have this options in their original paperwork and Marriott added it unilaterally.

Isn't it all entitlement? My entitlement vs. Marriott's entitelment. Why should I care what Marriott's concerns/needs are if they don't reciprocate? We're talking about a business/entity not people/person. You Dean, (or any other individual), I respect your right to live your life and make decisions as you see fit, as long as said decisions don't impact me negatively. Chances are, since I'm sure the chances of our lives intersecting are fairly slim, I'm sure that is not bound to happen, then we're good, and I have no beef with you.

On the other hand, Marriott may be making a decision that may impact me negatively (operative word 'may' at this point), and you're darn tootin I disagree with it. I don't have to like it, and there's nothing you can do or say to convince me that I must or even should. Nor do I have to understand. Again, I am not personally a Marriott associate or shareholder, so what Marriott does to stay profitable doesn't concern me nearly as much. In fact, I don't care what Marriott does to stay profitable, as I don't have to stay at Marriott hotels, there are many others to choose from. On the other hand, I am owner of a product (timeshare) that when the rules change may impact me, and now I am concerned. Plain and simple.
If you feel that's an entitlement mentality, so be it, I'm not offended. We don't even know each other.

Actually I think that in timesharing one person's choices often do affect others. Whether it's getting the last unit for a given resort/week or the exchange that you and I were both searching for or even discussing the way we use the rules to our advantage that ends up getting taken away because it gets put to the forefront of some timeshare companies agenda.

We could use tax examples but that might get political so lets talk timeshare maint and fees. A resort must decide what and how much to pay for each and every item and in many cases, whether to pay for something at all. These may include pools, workout rooms, beach access, play areas, security, midweek cleanings, etc, etc. Not every person will use every item and many will end up paying for things they don't use. Is this fair? Depends on the specifics for that item. Will some be upset even if it's fair? The answer a resounding yes for those that can't see the big picture. I try to see the big picture in such matters. Will we disagree on certain items? absolutely.

 

[pharmgirl]

Folks: Check out this link for an insight as to what may be happening 6/16/10

http://www.thetimeshareauthority.co...system-at-marriott-vacation-club-is-changing/

Actually, in reading the article again, it shows a start date of 7/16/2009, so this is actually "old news"[/QUOTE]

yeah, that was great news, we get nights credit for timeshare stays - I'm gold now because of these credits

But, think all the 'sturm and drang' over changing to points is lots of folks with not a lot to do, fun for them I'm sure, but don't know how realistic this is

 

[grgs]

A couple things to note, I have never had a problem booking my home resort when I wanted it. Never. Yes, you have to play the game of calling at the right time at or around 9am, and all that is inherent in that.

I'm glad to hear you're not having an issue booking your weeks.

Additionally, what you have stated here is only partially accurate. The 13-month rule is such that only 50% of a resorts inventory is held out for the multi-week owners. The remaining 50% is left for the 12-month for same week. Thus what actually occurs is the multi-week owners get a crack at the prime week in question, 2ce (13 & 12 month interval), the single week owner only gets the one oppty.

I understand about the 50% inventory restriction at 13 mos. In my prior post, I said:

"a good chunk of weeks has already been booked by owners with the 13 mo. advantage"

I would define 50% of the inventory as "a good chunk."

Now, of course, I do not own at say HH, or NCV, however, your broad-brushed statement implies that all MVCI owners have a degree of difficulty reserving their desired home resort, and I just don't believe that to be the truth...

I didn't mean to imply that all Marriott owners have problems reserving at their home resorts. I said in my earlier post:

"The one consistent complaint I have read about from Marriott owners is not being able to reserve their home resort at 12 mos. out when trying for a peak week."

Again, that is something that I've never heard a Starwood owner complain about. When trying to figure out why this would be an issue specifically with Marriott, I think it likely has to do with the desire to reserve peak weeks not just for personal use, but because of a wish to maximize trade power in II by depositing peak weeks in II, and secondarily, because "a good chunk" of the inventory is not available to single week owners when they get their first crack at making a reservation. If I owned at Canyon Villas and was unable to make a March spring training reservation at 12 mos., I would be extremely disappointed. This has never happened to me in all the years I have owned at Westin Kierland or Sheraton Desert Oasis. In fact, several times I've forgotten to call first thing and still was able to get my reservations made. I find it unlikely that Starwood owners have significantly less interest in using peak weeks than their Marriott counterparts.

I am happy that you're able to make the reservations you want, and of course, it's good to hear that side as well.

Glorian

 

[Asia2000]

And, despite that, you'll still hear lot's of people complaining even though we have a realatively very successful and efficient system. It's a simple, PROFITABLE and very fair program and everyone (except the cronic complainers) is happy - why does anyone here think that Marriott hasn't taken notice? Why all the doom and gloom? (OK- it's fun - GRANTED!)
Fortunately we will all have our answer very soon now. I for one am expecting to be one of the many WINNERS in the new program because I think the last thing Marriott wants is an unhappy customer base.

And by the way, can somebody please tell me what Marriott's "AP program" is. It sounds like it may be a cornerstone for Marriott's new point system so I'd love to hear a quick explanation. You don't have to sugar coat it - I'm not afraid of change!

Best wishes,
Dave

Hello Dave,

I guess it's easy to get caught up in the doom and gloom. I really do hope that the owners will be happy as well. After all, 400,000 owners offer better marketing than any tv/internet/radio/special promo campaign ever will. I hope Marriott will keep its quality to value ratio high with the new program.

In a nutshell, the AP program costs $1.25 per point. It is extremely expensive versus buying a resale deeded week. There are used/resale AP programs available for anywhere between $0.80 and $1.00 per point (still lofty). Six resorts you can book directly. Everything else is done through II via points. A platinum 2 bedroom costs roughly 32,000 points. This thread is the going rate for most resorts. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=913687#post913687 Hawaii is approx. 50% higher.

The applicable value in the program is the 10,000 point flexchange. With 30,000 points, it could give you 3 weeks of vacation if you are willing to book within a 59 day window.

The sales reps push the idea of converting club points to reward points at a 1:3 ratio. If you do the math, it comes down to one platinum 2 bedroom w/full kitchen week versus 5 days at a standard Marriott studio. One is slaughtered in the conversion concerning value. However, some might like to give up value for an exact location (city center) etc. However, financial sense says don't waste your club points on low value stays. Just pay for it on the side. It is kind of like using 10,000 Club points to rent a car for a week (10,000 Club points could give you $1,750 worth of resort time) versus using Priceline.com for $12 a day.

Also you can stay at the resorts for 1-3 days at basically the employee rate through something called "Express Breaks". My theory is, why disappoint yourself with such a short stay. I don't think you can have back yo back reservations via the "Express Breaks".

Last thing, they have "Club Connections" which allows you to use your Club points for 7 night stays (studio rooms) at a nice selection of hotels (some Ritz-Carlton). Again, a lower value spend of your club points in most cases.

So in the end, the program looks attractive to someone who really has not done their homework (ie. what a Club point is worth versus a Marriott Reward point, etc).

 

[m61376]

Asia- The point cost in II, that you referenced in your post above, is really high:

I forgot to post, perhaps the most important material. The chart for trading into II/MVCI. The Marriott presentation book uses Low, Moderate and High. The Marriott rep wrote Gold, Platinum and Platinum Plus next to each of these headings because all of the direct Asia resorts use Gold, Platinum and Plat +. Perhaps Platinum is a blend of Platinum and Silver (or in some cases red and white).

GOLD or Low (TDI 50-80):
Studio 10,000, 1bdrm 15,000, 2bdrm 23,000, 3bdrm 32,500
PLATINUM or Moderate (TDI 80-120)
Studio 15,000, 1bdrm 23,000, 2bdrm 32,500, 3bdrm 45,000
PLATINUM PLUS or High (TDI 120-150+)
Studio 27,500, 1bdrm 42,500, 2bdrm 60,000, 3 bdrm 85,000

Keep in mind the Platinum Plus is probably for Christmas, New Years and Chinese New Years for the Asian people. Anyone who knows the II TDI index best will be able to add to this post.

While they are listing a Plat. 2BR as costing 32,500 points, many 2BR weeks in the Plat. season have TDI's greater than 120, so many would actually fall into the Plat. Plus cost category. Similarly, what they describe as Gold or low cost has the TDI of many of Marirott's Bronze of Silver weeks, with many Gold weeks having TDI's of 80-120. Using Aruba for example, more than half of the weeks sold as Plat. have TDI's >120, so would fall into Plat. Plus costs in II, and almost all the Gold weeks would fall into the Plat. range for TDI. Thus, you would need the points from almost 2 of your Plat. Phuket weeks for a single week in a 2BR in Aruba during a significant portion of the winter.

Of course, I realize that, if all the resorts were available for internal booking, then the Marriott to Marriott trades would likely not have these disparities. But, it also means that if you want to trade into a Starwood, a Four Seasons, or even one of the Royals in Cancun, for example, during a peak period using II the cost would be prohibitive. For owners in the AP program, who have to use II for most of their trades outside of the destinations in the program, I just don't see the value.

IF they introduce a similar program here, I hope enough owners take the time to analyze it carefully and don't just imbibe the kool-aid, so to speak. Marriott cannot force this down anyone's throat, and the 50 or so current resorts can chug along nicely unless the owners elect to convert. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping this is a great program, but when I look at the AP program and I've heard that it is the likely model, I do have concerns. My only hope is that IF it is like the AP model, that they will also charge the same exorbitant $5000 sign on fee, which would, imho, severely limit the number of people signing on. Call me selfish- but my hope is that the majority of owners will land up doing the same thing- whether it is joining or not joining (to be determined) so there are not inventory issues making hard to get reservations even harder.

 

[Starbucks]

For owners in the AP program, who have to use II for most of their trades outside of the destinations in the program, I just don't see the value.

Correct as there is no value...

Thats the reason why most of the "in da know"-owners of MVCI AP simply exchange their 30k points into 3 weeks 2BDR within flexchange period. It´s using the system to your advantage similar to the famous mud season-week purchase at a ski resort and exchanging it within flexchange but with less maintenance fees and an alternate usage option if that little game comes to an abrupt end.

 

[Asia2000]

Asia- The point cost in II, that you referenced in your post above, is really high:

Don't get me wrong, I am hoping this is a great program, but when I look at the AP program and I've heard that it is the likely model, I do have concerns. My only hope is that IF it is like the AP model, that they will also charge the same exorbitant $5000 sign on fee, which would, imho, severely limit the number of people signing on. Call me selfish- but my hope is that the majority of owners will land up doing the same thing- whether it is joining or not joining (to be determined) so there are not inventory issues making hard to get reservations even harder.

m,

I could not agree more. Hopefully all owners move in unison. I think Marriott stands to make a lot more money this way versus a confusing program where the benefits are not clearly stated or realized across all owners.

However, if the conversion costs to points is really low for current owners, who would by a brand new points program if they could just buy a cheap deeded week with a points conversion. If the conversion costs are high, they will grab most likely a very low percentage which will benefit the deeded owners for at least the next several years as long as they do not play with the inventory too much.

Do you think Marriott wants full resorts, no matter how many timeshare sales?
Would they rather have empty units, restricting upgrades?
How much does reputation matter as many of the new sales come from non-educated on timeshares type prospects? It sounds like Starwood made some big errors in the past. Has it really hurt them that much?

It will be interesting to see what the new plan is.

 

[Asia2000]

Questions for Starbucks

Starbucks,

While you are online, I have a few questions for you.

1. Is the AP program considered a success in the eyes of Marriott?

2. How many deeded Phuket owners converted to points? Ballpark percentage.

3. Do you find it easy to flexchange into non-Marriott II resorts in Thailand?

4. Favorite resorts in Thailand (Marriott and non-marriott)?

 

[tiresmokindad]

We attended Marriott Ko Olina presentation yesterday. According to the sales representative, Marriott will be releasing new ownership use rules in June. The new rules will likely change the priority of bookings for any owners that did not buy directly from Marriott. If so, I believe the net effect would be to de-value the timeshare resale price.

Accordingly, "they are trying to protect owners that purchased directly from Marriott". Of course, "external sales owners would still retain title, but may end up on the first floor at a time they do not wish to visit."

I have no idea if it is just a sales pitch, "telling it like it is" as the rep said, or what.

Has anyone heard this presentation?

I heard this presentation. I want to see this presentation. What day/s will be in June?

 

[Starbucks]

Starbucks,

While you are online, I have a few questions for you.

1. Is the AP program considered a success in the eyes of Marriott?

2. How many deeded Phuket owners converted to points? Ballpark percentage.

3. Do you find it easy to flexchange into non-Marriott II resorts in Thailand?

4. Favorite resorts in Thailand (Marriott and non-marriott)?

1) Partly. While it does sell quite well to asian customers it is much harder to sell to europeans or americans.

2) AFAIK the number of owners who paid to convert their week into AP is very small. There are however quite a few owners who bought the minimum amount of points from AP and got their weeks converted for free. As in 1) those people are primary from the asian region / expats or people who like to play the 10k flexchange game.

3) No idea about other II resorts in Thailand or Asia. The owners i know exclusively trade into other MVCI units. Getting Phuket as a trade is quite easy if not looking for CNY week.

4) Are we talking about resorts/hotels in general or only the both Phuket MVCI resorts? Marriott as chain has some nice hotels in Thailand. My favourites are JW Khao Lak, the new Renaissance BKK as well as the Marriott Riverside. I would however never book those hotels or the AP Club connection resorts with AP points, there are way too expensive to spend them for such stays. Asian AP members think different though, they like blowing several thousand points for a one night stay in a 1 BDR suite which often sells for less than 150$ a night.

 

[Asia2000]

Starbucks,

Thank you for the responses. Yes, the JW Khao Lak is a gem. We stayed there as well as the Le Meridien Khao Lak. Le Meridien is nice, but nowhere near the level of the JW (comparing similar room sizes).

Well, if the AP program does not sell well to Europeans and Americans, I would have to imagine that there will be some adjustments. Maybe they will use big city hotels as a lure or larger roomed hotels (there are many tier II Marriotts resorts not part of MVCI). Maybe they will use the 5 to 1 MR point exchange like they did here for the first 15 years or so. Better than 3 to 1, but still not good.

Again, thanks for the input.

 

[PerryM]

Timing is everything...

Here are just a few of the headlines that greeted me this morning:

• A Very Deep Unemployment Hole
• Where Are the Jobs?
• Dow at Seven Month Low
• $13 Trillion Debt Poised to Overtake GDP
• Fears of a Double-Dip Increasing
• Gold hits all time high of $1,250 an ounce

400,000 Families are now to add another title to read:

Marriott Abandons Timeshare Weeks - Calculate Your Cost Here

Good grief Marriott, could you have picked a worse time to ask for more money for your bottom line?

 

[Starbucks]

Well, if the AP program does not sell well to Europeans and Americans, I would have to imagine that there will be some adjustments.

Don´t forget that there is a huge sales disadvantage at the moment for AP. There are only a few resorts in the system which allow reservations according to the published charts. If you live in europe or the americas it means that you have to travel quite a distance to visit/re-visit your resort. In times of tight budgets not every family of 4 does like the idea to spend huge amounts of money for flying around. Much easier to sell a system where you could people tell about the opportunity to vacation at a nice location which is reachable by car or a short flight with a budget airline. That disadvantage is gone once Marriott has point charts for all MVCI resorts.

I dont think that they will offer something like Club Connections worlwide. So my guess is the only way to get into regular chain hotels is your already mentioned AP point transfer into Marriott Rewards. They most likely will introduce that option in a new system as well. However, it would be wise on Marriotts side not to set the exchange factor in stone. Keep it open and adjust it as it is needed by your sales force. Why not give the buyer who spends +50k a better exchange rate. Make him feel special...

Personally i am within the group of people who does think that giving up your usage for Marriott reward points is not a good deal. Thats however based on the simple fact that i am in the happy position to earn enough of reward points or FF miles by my regular travel.

No need to add much more "lure". Showing first-time customers nice resorts pics and some simple point charts together with the story of the family of 6 who does spend every new years eve either in Park City or Hawai should do very well on those sales floors.

 

[Fredm]

You know what I find interesting? There's a thread here about some week or other going for $12K on eBay - looks to be a huge bargain considering the responses in that thread. Everybody's so excited that somebody got a great deal, aren't they? But nobody has mentioned that the lowest price ever for this specific week represents a devaluation, or that the seller's investment should be protected somehow. It's not that I expect it to be mentioned because that's how timeshares work, but I just find it a little bit funny that some folks want to have things both ways depending on whether they are resale market sellers or buyers.

Right on!

 

[Asia2000]

Don´t forget that there is a huge sales disadvantage at the moment for AP. There are only a few resorts in the system which allow reservations according to the published charts. If you live in europe or the americas it means that you have to travel quite a distance to visit/re-visit your resort. In times of tight budgets not every family of 4 does like the idea to spend huge amounts of money for flying around. Much easier to sell a system where you could people tell about the opportunity to vacation at a nice location which is reachable by car or a short flight with a budget airline. That disadvantage is gone once Marriott has point charts for all MVCI resorts.

I dont think that they will offer something like Club Connections worlwide. So my guess is the only way to get into regular chain hotels is your already mentioned AP point transfer into Marriott Rewards. They most likely will introduce that option in a new system as well. However, it would be wise on Marriotts side not to set the exchange factor in stone. Keep it open and adjust it as it is needed by your sales force. Why not give the buyer who spends +50k a better exchange rate. Make him feel special...

Personally i am within the group of people who does think that giving up your usage for Marriott reward points is not a good deal. Thats however based on the simple fact that i am in the happy position to earn enough of reward points or FF miles by my regular travel.

No need to add much more "lure". Showing first-time customers nice resorts pics and some simple point charts together with the story of the family of 6 who does spend every new years eve either in Park City or Hawai should do very well on those sales floors.

Excellent Analysis! I agree with the appeal to new customers. But what about the deeded owners? There is a lot of money to be made off of the deeded week owners. Any thoughts on a conversion cost? Maybe if you buy a minimum level of points, it's free? Any guesses would be appreciated.

After all, Marriott probably does not want to jump in with a "brand new" never been tested system. I agree that many aspects of the AP will be involved.

 

[Starbucks]

But what about the deeded owners?

To be honest, i am with the bad guys here: The amount of points your owned weeks do generate in a new system will determine how badly you are getting screwed by Marriott. Minimum points, maximum pain.

As for the change into the possible new programm. As Perry and others pointed out numerous times, big "bribes" or countdown specials will be given to deeded week owners to convert to points. Again, the more point value your week has in the new system the more willingness to offer something special for you as "our most valued" customer.

 

[DanCali]

A glimpse of the future?

Will we see these types of posts on the Marriott board 2-3 years from now?

Several thousand dollars down, and a few more gray hairs it'll be back to:

"All you can really count on is the continued ability to reserve your own unit at your own resort for your own week".

Oh wait - Marriott may take away home resort advantage too...

 

[timeos2]

Deed means never having to say "what do I own?"

Will we see these types of posts on the Marriott board 2-3 years from now?

Several thousand dollars down, and a few more gray hairs it'll be back to:

"All you can really count on is the continued ability to reserve your own unit at your own resort for your own week".

Oh wait - Marriott may take away home resort advantage too...

If you own a deeded week then the "home advantage" can never go away. Even Wastegate hasn't been able to accomplish that and while some would have you believe Marriott is quickly passing Wastegate as the worst organization in timeshare they are actually pikers in the world of owner shafting. Learning it appears, but still rank novices.

 

[DanCali]

If you own a deeded week then the "home advantage" can never go away.

I agree. They also can't take away your trading power by changing points on you if you don't join the points system (II can change your trading power, but presumably that would be more aligned with supply and demand)

I meant that the rumor is no home resort advantage in the points system...

 

[SueDonJ]

Will we see these types of posts on the Marriott board 2-3 years from now?

Several thousand dollars down, and a few more gray hairs it'll be back to:

"All you can really count on is the continued ability to reserve your own unit at your own resort for your own week". ...

But that's the way it works now, which owners should know if they've reviewed the ownership docs. Sure, with our deeded weeks we have the right to exchange either privately or through whatever company Marriott is contracted with at the time of exchange, but there is absolutely no guarantee of availability or "like for like" exchange power or anything else that may have occurred with our past exchanges. And yes, most deeded weeks do have some value on the resale market, both external and internal with Resales-by-Marriott, but no specific amount in either market is guaranteed by Marriott.

... Oh wait - Marriott may take away home resort advantage too...

... I meant that the rumor is no home resort advantage in the points system...

Like John says, with a deeded week you will always have a home resort advantage. If that disappears within any new system that a deeded-week owner chooses to join, well, again, it will be up to the owner to know the limitations of what s/he's joined.

 

[PerryM]

But that's the way it works now, which owners should know if they've reviewed the ownership docs. Sure, with our deeded weeks we have the right to exchange either privately or through whatever company Marriott is contracted with at the time of exchange, but there is absolutely no guarantee of availability or "like for like" exchange power or anything else that may have occurred with our past exchanges. And yes, most deeded weeks do have some value on the resale market, both external and internal with Resales-by-Marriott, but no specific amount in either market is guaranteed by Marriott.



Like John says, with a deeded week you will always have a home resort advantage. If that disappears within any new system that a deeded-week owner chooses to join, well, again, it will be up to the owner to know the limitations of what s/he's joined.

Spoken like a lawyer!

I'm sure that will be comfort to all those Marriott owners in shell-shock.

I guess the first thing that pops into their mind will be "Marriott has every right to screw me over - the fine print says so."

So will the Marriott owners show understanding to the lawyers or show rage over a company that pulled the wool over their eyes - legally.

We will have to wait just a week to find out how understanding the owners are to new fees and loss of their deeds and loss of the old Marriott. In this environment I'm not sure that understanding of the legal paperwork will be their first reaction.