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Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

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m61376

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Yes I did misunderstand, thanks. They have a fair amount of info for each area before they decide to build and they add to that info over time. This includes market studies, rental rates, etc. I'm sure they pull from the hotel arm which has a lot of data as well. I'm sure they'll look at the actual rates and % they rent in addition, I doubt actual rack rates would have much bearing.

But, Dean, don't rack rental rates already take that market analysis into account, and reflect market conditions in an area? The law of supply and demand dictates the prices set for a business to sustain itself; Marriott's average rental rates (including their average discounted rates where they apply) are set to maximize their rental and takes into account all those studies. The reality is, if they can get $500 for a July room in HH they will charge it, and if they can only get $250 for the same week elsewhere, that's all they will charge (I'm just making up numbers here for illustrative purposes). They charge $850 for a villa in Aruba in January because people are willing to pay it, or 1K plus for a holiday ski week. You and I may not be willing to pay it, but that's what the market dictates they're worth, because in many cases those villas are sold out. Last Feb. I needed another room, and I was shocked to see what the minimum prices I could find for any of the Marriott Aruba properties, and some of the options were sold out for the dates I needed. Clearly, people rented them and were paying the rates. Not everyone uses Priceline; a lot of people like to know where they are going.

And, yes, it is true that rack rental rates get discounted, but more or less the discounts are across the board. My guess is that the rates are set such that every property gets a high percentage of their posted rates, and that percentage is probably very similar averaged over time. Marriott doesn't just arbitrarily assign a rack rate; the rates already reflect supply, demand, location, quality, etc.. That's why I feel they are probably the most objective assessment.
 

puckmanfl

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good morning...

Crystal ball time again...

If platinum maintenance fees go up by 60% (such as the example of $1000 to $1600) in the previous post, I don't believe there will be many conversions. MVCI needs the plat. weeks in the system. They have plenty of November Orlando weeks already in the system for points. They need the ski weeks, summer in HHI and winter in Florida to "sell the dream". Any system is going to be setup initially to entice the owners of these weeks to jump in!!!

My current MF's for my 2 ey and 3 eoy's are $4.7K/year. If this jumps to $7.1K, I will be enjoying home unit usage and trading with II and hoping for the best.

A side benefit might be an INCREASE in resale values. You can snag a ski week on resale for 1/2 costs + $1000 in MF's in contrast to paying full value retail to purchase enough points to access a ski week + $1600 in MF's. The deeded week might look pretty sweet...
 

hipslo

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While it wouldn't surprise me to not see the 13 month rule in any new points based system, I would imagine that the 13 month rule for mult. week owners will remain in place for those that stay in the weeks based exchange system.

If Marriott wants to incent existing weeks owners to convert to points it wouldnt make much sense for them to continue to allow conversion "hold outs" to benefit from the 13 month rule. I wouldnt be all that surprised to see the elimination of the 13 month rule as a major part of making weeks owners "an offer they can't refuse".
 

taffy19

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Interesting...yet those that tout the advantage of the trading for points perk of direct purchasers use that very figure to value the benefit of the fabulous vacations they've taken.

Of course they do because they have to justify the purchase they made but it feels good to spoil yourself and stay in a nice hotel in a special place and fly first class. :) How many people would do this on a regular basis unless money is no object at all. Everyone spends their money in a different way and why not? It's their money.

Yes, hotel rates do fluctuate, but at any given moment comparing the rates between different properties at the same point in time is an objective relative evaluation of real time value. It doesn't matter if you (or I) would pay those rates- clearly, many people book directly through Marriott and do.

We booked directly through the Marriott and we didn't pay the rack rate either in NYC. We have never paid them at any hotel we have stayed in the USA so far. They may charge them when something special is going on so they are not accused of price gouching.

It doesn't matter if it is relatively cheaper for a visitor from Japan because of their relative standard of living; clearly the supply and demand around the world is reflected simply in the prices being charged. What Marriott currently charges to rent a room or a villa already reflects fees in a global system of worldwide properties. In reality, Marriott doesn't care what nationality their occupant is, as long as they pay the bill. That's why your issue of affordability based on the American standard of living versus a foreign one isn't applicable here. Value is determined by relative demand and supply, and the pricing already in place (Marriott rental rates) systematically wide reflects that.

I would think that the new point system has to appeal and seem to be fair to the Americans, European as well as the Asians or whatever Nations they have their resorts in that belong to the new point system or they may keep them separate like they are now and do not have to worry about it. One global system sounds more simple to me than two. Did you see the resorts lumped together in this web page or was that already before like that?

Like Perry, I feel that this is the only truly accurate and, thus, fair reflection of value (unless they were to do property appraisals, but since they already have these figures easily accessible why reinvent the wheel?). However, whether they will take the high road and actually use them is another matter, because the very fact that it forces them to set point values objectively and impedes their manipulation of them for sales purposes may very well preclude them from using an objective basis for valuation. But, imho, If they did, it would go a long way towards convincing me that this truly was the best system and that Marriott developed something really beneficial for owners and not only their bottom line.
My answers to you are in blue. I will be so happy when they roll out their new system and we can stop guessing. :ponder: I am sitting here waiting for my updates so may as well speculate. ;)
 

indyhorizons

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good morning...

Crystal ball time again...

If platinum maintenance fees go up by 60% (such as the example of $1000 to $1600) in the previous post, I don't believe there will be many conversions. MVCI needs the plat. weeks in the system. They have plenty of November Orlando weeks already in the system for points. They need the ski weeks, summer in HHI and winter in Florida to "sell the dream". Any system is going to be setup initially to entice the owners of these weeks to jump in!!!

My current MF's for my 2 ey and 3 eoy's are $4.7K/year. If this jumps to $7.1K, I will be enjoying home unit usage and trading with II and hoping for the best.

A side benefit might be an INCREASE in resale values. You can snag a ski week on resale for 1/2 costs + $1000 in MF's in contrast to paying full value retail to purchase enough points to access a ski week + $1600 in MF's. The deeded week might look pretty sweet..

Not that I am looking for another week, but don't you think that would be an example when Marriott would then exercise ROFR to avoid this transaction? I don't know if the great weeks that Perry has predicted will sell for $1 on ebay on or about June 17, so I'm not going to hold my breath either way.
 

PerryM

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Bye bye Platinum, Gold, and Silver - Hello Platinum, Gold, and Silver...

I don't know how voting rights at a particular Marriott resort will work anymore - bye bye owner controlled HOA?

You turn in your Platinum 2BR Summit Watch, your Gold 2BR MountainSide, and a 2BR Platinum at MOC and get a whole bunch of Points.

What happens to your Proxy at each of the resorts? Do you get to vote or does Marriott get control of the Proxies somehow. If there are laws about the developer taking over again, well that's why there are less than brilliant brother-in-laws....

Speaking of Platinum, Gold, and Silver just what level of Points is needed to attend these lofty memberships?

In my guess at Marriott taking control of individual condos and perhaps the HOA in some way how about upgrading some condos to Platinum membership level with better furnishings and much better cleaning and better service from the staff.

How about Platinum Members Only check-in lines at the front desk? How about a van dedicated to Platinum Members Only to whisk them around the nearby area?

Say goodbye to the old days where every owner was treated the same and say hello to a caste system where some owners are much better people than others....

P.S.
And of course Platinum Members get automatic late check-out at Noon and early check-in at 2 PM. The cleaning staff must get the special Platinum rooms ready first. Expect a Platinum Only concierge service to stock the fridge and get those freebie dessert coupons to Ruth's Chris in a welcoming basket to greet the Platinum owners.

To all those here that say "Marriott has the right..." - you're right....
 
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indyhorizons

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I don't know how voting rights at a particular Marriott resort will work anymore - bye bye owner controlled HOA?

You turn in your Platinum 2BR Summit Watch, your Gold 2BR MountainSide, and a 2BR Platinum at MOC and get a whole bunch of Points.

What happens to your Proxy at each of the resorts? Do you get to vote or does Marriott get control of the Proxies somehow. If there are laws about the developer taking over again, well that's why there are less than brilliant brother-in-laws....

Speaking of Platinum, Gold, and Silver just what level of Points is needed to attend these lofty memberships?

In my guess at Marriott taking control of individual condos and perhaps the HOA in some way how about upgrading some condos to Platinum membership level with better furnishings and much better cleaning and better service from the staff.

How about Platinum Members Only check-in lines at the front desk? How about a van dedicated to Platinum Members Only to whisk them around the nearby area?

Say goodbye to the old days where every owner was treated the same and say hello to a caste system where some owners are much better people than others....

Perry, apparently some of us are already better people than others. According to wuv pooh, those of us who dared to buy resell are <gasp> deadbeats. I guess since I own 2 eoy developer purchased and 1 resell, I must be half a deadbeat. Maybe just "dead"...?;)
 

m61376

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We booked directly through the Marriott and we didn't pay the rack rate either in NYC. We have never paid them at any hotel we have stayed in the USA so far. They may charge them when something special is going on so they are not accused of price gouching.
My answers to you are in blue. I will be so happy when they roll out their new system and we can stop guessing. :ponder: I am sitting here waiting for my updates so may as well speculate. ;)

Maybe I should have been clearer- I was suggesting the average rate that Marriott charges on their website for a given size unit in a given season. I would suspect that, on average, the same percentage of renters use various discounts (such as AAA, owner discount codes, etc) so that the posted rate generally reflects relative prices paid (if the posted rates are $300 and $200 at different properties, but the average renter gets a 20% discount, then whether you use 300 and 200 or 240 and 160 as the relative valuations the proportion is the same).
 

m61376

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Perry, apparently some of us are already better people than others. According to wuv pooh, those of us who dared to buy resell are <gasp> deadbeats. I guess since I own 2 eoy developer purchased and 1 resell, I must be half a deadbeat. Maybe just "dead"...?;)

Or maybe you just learned to "beat" the system (or at least beat them at their own game):hysterical:
 

PerryM

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Perry, apparently some of us are already better people than others. According to wuv pooh, those of us who dared to buy resell are <gasp> deadbeats. I guess since I own 2 eoy developer purchased and 1 resell, I must be half a deadbeat. Maybe just "dead"...?;)

If Marriott is going to throw out 20 years of timesharing I'm betting they will totally revamp how they look at timeshares and integrate it into their other products and services they offer.

If my goal was to take 400,000 customers and mold them into my vision of timesharing for the next 20 years I'm going to make some pretty big changes right now.

And yes, I'm thinking "They will love it!"
 

wuv pooh

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Pooh, I guess we are all deadbeats then, as someone as already gracefully pointed out, there is no such thing as a new timeshare, in the general sense of the word...:rolleyes:

That is the goal :D I know that I personally have taken far more out of the system than any measure of "comparable" would support in the last 10 years. Hopefully the gravy train will last, but there is always another train.
 

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Largely, I think your analysis is right, and I respect that you've had more opportunity to examine the AP program. Rolling out something akin to the AP program makes sense from a business perspective, because it would allow them to have a similar offering system-wide and combine the reservation systems. As I stated above, money is money, whether it is paid in dollars, converted from Japanese Yen, British pounds, the Euro, etc., and Marriott really doesn't (nor should they from a business perspective) care about its source. I also feel that the AP program gave Marriott a chance to dip their toes in the water, so to speak, and time to test and tweak both the offering and the reservation system, and on a smaller scale rectify issues with a dual ownership type reservation system. When I first heard of the AP program a few years back I felt it was a trial run, so your premise is based on a good foundation.

The only part I disagree with is: "MVCI is likely to tweak around with maintenance fee calculations hitting resistant week owners ("outlaws") with higher fees." legally, whatever fees set by each HOA must be paid, either by the week owner or by an allocation from the Marriott point trust MF's. But, for argument's sake, if the HOA sets the MF at 1k, the weeks owner pays 1K and Marriott must reimburse the HOA 1k for each week in the points system. Now, how Marriott charges the points owner can be manipulated; under the weeks system, every owner pays the 1K per week, regardless of season owned. Under the points system, a Platinum week may be allotted 40,000 points, a Gold week 30,000, a Silver 20,000 and a Bronze 10,000, for argument's sake. If Marriott has those 4 weeks in their points system, they must turn over 4K to the HOA for those 4 weeks. However, they do not have to charge each of those owners $1000 as they do now. The Platinum week owner may be charged $1600, the Gold $1200, the Silver $800 and the Bronze $400, reflecting their relative point ownership. The HOA still gets their 4K from the 4 weeks, but now the season owned impacts the distribution of charges.

BUT- Marriott cannot arbitrarily charge resistant owners, who retain their weeks, a higher portion of the carrying charges, since MF's are divided evenly amongst ownership weeks. IF Marriott was to tweak the system, as you suggest, and increase the MF's for weeks owners, it would similarly have to assess point owners to cover those fees.

The bigger issue is how will Marriott determine MF's? In the AP program, MF's are uniform across the board, so that, in effect, everyone absorbs the cost of higher MF properties. In the old system, a lower season owner paid less to purchase, but still received one week of use and since the cost of running the resort is relatively the same (of course, there are some different variables depending on time of year) across the year, so the expenses are divided evenly. In the AP system, the purchase price is determined by the number of points purchased, the size of the unit they can get is determined by the number of points owned, the property location and value, the size of the unit and the time of the year. MF's are based on the number of points owned, period. So if you own more points, presumably you get to reserve more- whether more time, a bigger unit, or a more premium location or season- but you also pay more, both up front to purchase and on a on-going basis (higher MF's). I can see the equity argument from both perspectives; I think the rub here is int he switch mid-stream.

In the AP program, I can assume Platinum owners are happy that they get significantly more points, but aren't so thrilled about now paying the lion's share of the MF's. New points purchasers probably view that as making sense and being fair, because Bronze week owners are no longer purchasing the same 1 week use in a 2BR unit that the Platinum week owners are, just paying less up front to use in a lesser season. The point equivalent of a Bronze week will now likely be perceived as having a more realistic value, and buyers will feel they should pay the MF's accordingly, especially since the illusion Marriott promoted during sales of easy trades through II, using the lock off to trade into a 1BR or even a 2BR at another time, will no longer be there. What you own and what you get will clearly be there on the points chart, and salespeople will no longer be able to sell the elusive dream of easy up-trades.

The high MF Hawaii owner will likely like the system wide calculation of MF's, but Plat, week owners at other high value resorts may not appreciate paying the lion's share of the MF's. For Hawaii owners it is a win-win situation- all the weeks are already Plat. , with a few Plat. Plus, so dividing the MF's amongst seasons will have little difference, but since their MF's are on the high side, they will come down and the Manor Club, Branson and Orlando owners, etc., who have lower MF's, will basically be subsidizing the higher fees elsewhere.
I don't know how much the bronze weeks will go up in comparison to the others but they paid the lowest upfront fee when they bought that season and now they may have to pay a little more. All points have equal value from here on.

You say the rub is that the switch is done mid-stream but the people who bought at the oldest and least expensive resorts may start paying a little more too today and the people who paid at the newest and most expensive resort may start paying a little less when they even out the maintenance fees over all the present resorts but that has more to do with the age and quality of the resort and not the seasons.

What I am afraid of is that you will have two different systems eventually like Starwood has. You have the old system with a combination of weeks and points with the present older resorts and you will have the true point system with the newest resorts that will be built in the future. They will cost more in points as points reflect the price so you will have to buy more points to be able to go to the newer resorts. A week is no longer a week like it used to be but is it bad? It may be bad to us because we are used to a week is a week but it isn't bad to new people who can vacation by the day. It certainly is more flexible like a hotel but it will cost more too in wear and tear and upkeep and accounting, etc.

I wonder how long it will take to convert the whole system over to points only? It may take a generation or two.
 

Asia2000

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As we have only a few days left it might be an interesting idea to open up a small poll on TUG to see what the majority of informed MVCI owners is thinking what is going to hit us next week.

My personal guess is the new programm is based on the AP system. There might be a few minor adjustments but the main ideas will be used. Honestly when i first went to that AP presentation i was like "Jeez! What are those guys trying to sell me?". Nowadays i am still :hysterical: about 98% of that system. I don´t think that more than 5% of Tuggers will like what they see next week.

As for the loopholes/smart buyers. I am also with Boccabum that one should go where the current developer money and inventory is and say goodbye as soon as the party gets too crowded. So finding an opportunity to get those 10,000 or whatever amount of points is needed to get some of those 2BDR Flexchanges during the next few years might be a reasonable approach IF one is flexible.

Would i exchange my weeks into points under the current AP rules ? You bet not.

MVCI is likely trying to dry out the inventory in II and they might be successful doing that in a few years. Also MVCI is likely to tweak around with maintenance fee calculations hitting resistant week owners ("outlaws") with higher fees. However i am still optimistic that in the long run, after the new programm went through the first "enhancements", an old week is much more valuable than some points.

Starbucks,

You have been in and around the AP program for a while. I am rather new to the whole thing (maybe one year). What is your opinion on the success of the program? What percentage of Phuket deed owners actually made the switch-over to points? Any other thoughts, please share.
 

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But that Bronze owner COULD save money if they use the week the originaly bought, but the Platinum Pluss owner WILL pay more to use the week they originaly bought!

Ray

That remains to be seen on how Marriott determines the point system. I'm betting that even the bronze owner will not be able to get the week that they use to get before with the new points system.:(
 

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A reasonable question to ask is "Will Marriott dump the 13 month rule?"

Marriott doesn't need it anymore - why should they let the folks who don't play their game have it?

I guess the sales documents might mention it - but if I remember correctly that required 2 weeks consecutive or concurrent at the SAME resort. Marriott let it spill over to mean ANY resort.

Marriott can simply enforce the documents and the whole flavor of 13 month reservations change.

My guess is that if Marriott has to keep the 13 month rule they will enforce the original definition and cut down competition.

If they can dump it they will do so faster than a salesrep who realizes that Ma and Pa bought a resale Marriott and can quote the eBay price that day.

P.S.
If Marriott does tinker with the 13 month rule they will mention the term "Fairness".

Count how many times "Fairness" is used and that's how many times owners are getting screwed.


The 13 month rule is tied into reservation procedures in the Declaration of Condominuim documents in many resorts and cannot be arbitrarily changed by Marriott. I any conflict between the Declaration of Condominium documents i and the reservations procedure is created, the Declaration of Condominium document prevails.
 

indyhorizons

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The 13 month rule is tied into reservation procedures in the Declaration of Condominuim documents in many resorts and cannot be arbitrarily changed by Marriott. I any conflict between the Declaration of Condominium documents i and the reservations procedure is created, the Declaration of Condominium document prevails.

That may be true, but as someone has already pointed out, Marriott has so graciously broadbrushed the administration of the 13month rule to allow 2 concurrent or consecutive reseervations and they don't have to be at the same resort. Additionally, I understand that the 13month rule also states for owner use, and not for exchange, how many of us have exploited that loophole? I'm sure many if not all. So the question isn't do they have the right to abolish it, but whether they have the right (and I'd argue that they certainly do) to enforce the provision as it is written/intended.
 

m61376

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That may be true, but as someone has already pointed out, Marriott has so graciously broadbrushed the administration of the 13month rule to allow 2 concurrent or consecutive reseervations and they don't have to be at the same resort. Additionally, I understand that the 13month rule also states for owner use, and not for exchange, how many of us have exploited that loophole? I'm sure many if not all. So the question isn't do they have the right to abolish it, but whether they have the right (and I'd argue that they certainly do) to enforce the provision as it is written/intended.

I agree, but really it is a moot point wrt the reservations within the point system. Week reservations, however they are implemented (12 or 13 months), will be restricted to the owned week portion. So- if 50% of the owners convert, then 50% of every available reservation inventory belongs to points and 50% to weeks. If the 13/12 rule persists, it just means now that 25% would be released at 13 months and 25% at 12 months. Of course, those percentages will vary depending upon the membership of each group.

Of course, if Marriott ascertains that a disproportional number of weeks go to II because of the 13 month rule, and enables week owners to manipulate the system and entices them to continue being week owners rather than joining the new Marriott program, they may try to curtail the program to give owners another reason to convert.
 

hipslo

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Of course, if Marriott ascertains that a disproportional number of weeks go to II because of the 13 month rule, and enables week owners to manipulate the system and entices them to continue being week owners rather than joining the new Marriott program, they may try to curtail the program to give owners another reason to convert.

This seems quite likely to me, in order to give the points system a better shot at getting more of the "best" weeks.
 

SueDonJ

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That may be true, but as someone has already pointed out, Marriott has so graciously broadbrushed the administration of the 13month rule to allow 2 concurrent or consecutive reseervations and they don't have to be at the same resort. Additionally, I understand that the 13month rule also states for owner use, and not for exchange, how many of us have exploited that loophole? I'm sure many if not all. So the question isn't do they have the right to abolish it, but whether they have the right (and I'd argue that they certainly do) to enforce the provision as it is written/intended.

The problem is that the 13-mo rule is written into the individual resort contracts in various forms at different resorts - some but not all specifying same resort and/or occupancy limitations. Or as is the case at older resorts, it's not written into the contracts at all.

So MVCI as the management company has implemented the same 13-mo reservation procedure across every resort, allowing consecutive/concurrent reservations at any combination of owned resorts and broadening the definition of "... to occupy ..." to include use, rent, and exchange. Their right to do that is supported by them being limited to only what's specifically excluded by the contracts, as Dean said. As well, it's supported by a clause (to amend Reservation Procedures) in the Management Agreements of both SurfWatch and Barony Beach; probably a similar clause is in every resort's Management Agreement.

I don't know how far that clause extends if they were to try to abolish the 13-mo rule completely but it sure would be interesting to see how it would play out. (Only as food for thought, it's not at all something that I want to see go away.) Because above all else, MVCI holds the right to abolish Management Agreements if the BOD/ownership votes against or successfully challenges a management issue.
 

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That remains to be seen on how Marriott determines the point system. I'm betting that even the bronze owner will not be able to get the week that they use to get before with the new points system.:(

I would bet that a Bronze owner will have enough points to get a week in the Bronze season at their home resort. They may not have enough points to get any Bronze week if Marriott decides that some are more valuable than others, but I bet they will have enough to get the average demand Bronze week at the resort they currently own at.

Ray
 
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I'm amazed by all the negativity & fear!

OK, granted - I realize that most people don't like change. But I can't believe all the "Marriott is out to screw us" talk about a new program that hasn't even been anounced yet.

Hey, Marriott became an industry leader with a very simple philosophy - CUSTOMER SATISFACTION! What makes all you fear mongers think that Marriott suddenly intends to deviate from a formula that has brought them tremendous success for all these years?

Yes, I realize that Marriott's goal is to enhance profits - but I also realize that the best way for them to do this is by maintaining the policy they've been using for decades - KEEPING THEIR CUSTOMERS HAPPY (and that includes all the people on this thread who have paid a premium to participate in the Marriott brand (even if you bough resale like I did -you still paid more to have a "Marriott" timeshare).

So instead of believing that Marriott is out to trick us or take unfair advantage of us with the new program, I think the successful executives at Marriott realize that the BEST way to succeed is with a WIN-WIN situation for everybody. You can call me naive, you can call me stupid - but we have no concrete reason to believe I'm wrong.

Because I believe in quality, I also own at DVC (Disney). I'm sure Marriott has also studied their very successful and simple program. It's also a points based system where I maintain my home resort priority. I book at 11 months out for my home resort or I book at 7 months out to access any of the other resorts. Disney's maintains a FIXED amount of inventory for itself while the vast majority of points is available to all owners on a first-come, first-serve basis. I can use my points for a 1 day reservation or for as many days as I'd like. I can use my points for a studio or a 1 bedroom or a 2 bedroom or a 3 bedroom depending on how many people I want to take along with me. The total amount of points allocated to each resort is FIXED and can NEVER go up! While maintenance fees do increase every year, Disney has kept increases low and very reasonable - that's because Disney also owes it's success to customer satisfaction. If I want to exchange outside of Disney, I can exchange through RCI - very similiar to the way I presently exchange with Marriott.

Is the system perfect - NO - but the vast majority of us get the exact reservations we want most of the time. Do the newer and more exotic resorts require more points per night - YES - so we either stay at the newer hotels in smaller rooms or for less nights OR we're simply happy continuing to use the existing pools that was available when we originally purchased my points (via resale, by the way). And, despite that, you'll still hear lot's of people complaining even though we have a realatively very successful and efficient system. It's a simple, PROFITABLE and very fair program and everyone (except the cronic complainers) is happy - why does anyone here think that Marriott hasn't taken notice? Why all the doom and gloom? (OK- it's fun - GRANTED!)

Fortunately we will all have our answer very soon now. I for one am expecting to be one of the many WINNERS in the new program because I think the last thing Marriott wants is an unhappy customer base.

And by the way, can somebody please tell me what Marriott's "AP program" is. It sounds like it may be a cornerstone for Marriott's new point system so I'd love to hear a quick explanation. You don't have to sugar coat it - I'm not afraid of change!

Best wishes,
Dave
 
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PerryM

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giveth and taketh....

The 13 month rule is tied into reservation procedures in the Declaration of Condominuim documents in many resorts and cannot be arbitrarily changed by Marriott. I any conflict between the Declaration of Condominium documents i and the reservations procedure is created, the Declaration of Condominium document prevails.

True and past heated debates here has had lots of folks post the actual verbiage from the CCRs and as far as I remember they all stipulated the multiple weeks had to be at THAT home resort.

Marriott extended that to ANY Marriott resort and what they giveth they can taketh.
 

PerryM

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OK, granted - I realize that most people don't like change. But I can't believe all the "Marriott is out to screw us" talk about a new program that hasn't even been anounce yet.

Hey, Marriott became an industry leader with a very simple philosophy - CUSTOMER SATISFACTION! What makes all you fear mongers think that Marriott suddenly intends to deviate from a formula that has brought them tremendous success for all these years?

Yes, I realize that Marriott's goal is to enhance profits - but I also realize that the best way for them to do this is by doing the same thing they've been doing for decades - KEEPING THEIR CUSTOMERS HAPPY (and that includes all the people on this thread who have paid a premium to participate in the Marriott brand (even if you bough resale like I did -you still paid more to have a "Marriott" timeshare).

So instead of believing that Marriott is out to trick us or take unfair advantage of us with the new program, I think the successful executives at Marriott realize that the BEST way to succeed is with a WIN-WIN situation for everybody. You can call me naive, you can call me stupid - but we have no concrete reason to believe I'm wrong.

Because I believe in quality, I also own at DVC (Disney). I'm sure Marriott has also studied their very successful and simple program. It's also a points based system where I maintain my home resort priority. I book at 11 months out for my home resort or I book at 7 months out to access any of the other resorts. Disney's maintains a FIXED amount of inventory for itself and the vast majority of points is available to all owners on a first-come, first-serve basis. I can use my points for a 1 day reservation or for as many days as I'd like. I can use my points for a studio or a 1 bedroom or a 2 bedroom or a 3 bedroom depending on how many people I want to take along with me. The total amount of points allocated to each resort is FIXED and can NEVER go up! While maintenance fees do increase every year, Disney has kept increases low and very reasonable - that's because Disney also owes it's success to customer satisfaction. If I want to exchange outside of Disney, I can exchange through RCI - very similiar to the way I presently exchange with Marriott.

Is the system perfect - NO - but the vast majority of us get the exact reservations we want most of the time. Do the newer and more exotic resorts require more points per night - YES - so we either stay at the newer hotels in smaller rooms or for less nights OR we're simply happy continuing to use the existing pools that was available when we originally purchased my points (via resale, by the way). And, despite that, you'll still hear lot's of people complaining even though we have a very successful and efficient system. It's a simple, PROFITABLE and very fair program and everyone (except the cronic complainers) is happy - what does anyone here think that Marriott hasn't taken notice? Why all the doom and gloom? (OK- it's fun - GRANTED!)

Fortunately we will all have our answer very soon now. I for one am expecting to be one of the many WINNERS in the new program because I think the last thing Marriott wants is an unhappy customer base.

And by the way, can somebody please tell me what Marriott's "AP program" is. It sounds like it may be a cornerstone for Marriott's new point system so I'd love to hear a quick explanation. You don't have to sugar coat it - I'm not afraid of change!

Best wishes,
Dave

Their lips are moving?
 

Rush

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Do we think booking partial weeks will be possible?

Thinking about shifting a little more, DVC recently did some shifting in how many points were required for certain days of the week for partial stays. However, the total number of points for any given week remained the same.

Having had followed - or at least tried to follow - this most interesting thread, one of the many Q's I have about what the anticipated changes might mean has to do w whether a points system is likely to include the option of booking stays of, say, 2/3/4 nights.

And if so, whether this might extend beyond Marriott timeshare properties to staying at Marriott hotels...

My week was purchased resale, so I realize that I cannot currently trade it in for MRP's...
 
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