Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[Asia2000]

All Flexchanges, regardless of unit size, are 10,000 points. These can be booked out 59 days or less with any II TDI.

 

[Dean]

I forgot to post, perhaps the most important material. The chart for trading into II/MVCI. The Marriott presentation book uses Low, Moderate and High. The Marriott rep wrote Gold, Platinum and Platinum Plus next to each of these headings because all of the direct Asia resorts use Gold, Platinum and Plat +. Perhaps Platinum is a blend of Platinum and Silver (or in some cases red and white).

GOLD or Low (TDI 50-80):
Studio 10,000, 1bdrm 15,000, 2bdrm 23,000, 3bdrm 32,500
PLATINUM or Moderate (TDI 80-120)
Studio 15,000, 1bdrm 23,000, 2bdrm 32,500, 3bdrm 45,000
PLATINUM PLUS or High (TDI 120-150+)
Studio 27,500, 1bdrm 42,500, 2bdrm 60,000, 3 bdrm 85,000

Keep in mind the Platinum Plus is probably for Christmas, New Years and Chinese New Years for the Asian people. Anyone who knows the II TDI index best will be able to add to this post.

This appears c/w the system that DVC used with II other than the points are higher. Extrapolating from that experience, I would guess that red time and high demand is the highest level, that red time but not high demand is the Moderate level and that anything not red time is the lowest. That still means that II exchanges are over priced for trading with II with this system, IMO.

 

[davidvel]

Any new "system/program" will simply be another incentive/trading program, nothing to do with reservation rights. :deadhorse:

 

[PerryM]

The Wizards of smart...

Any new "system/program" will simply be another incentive/trading program, nothing to do with reservation rights. :deadhorse:

Correct - Point well taken!

Imagine Marriott stopped developing for 5 years - the existing developer inventory is gone and thus you have nothing new to sell - no big deal!

Marriott's minions will be busy at work selling YOUR weeks - they realized that they can make Platinum out of Bronze by concocting a way to use your reservations to sell old, recycled weeks that they bought for peanuts because of the new scheme they unleashed on their owners killed the resale market.

From a stockholders' perspective this is what MBA wizards are supposed to do.

From the owners' perspective this will just suck....

 

[dougp26364]

Correct - Point well taken!

Imagine Marriott stopped developing for 5 years - the existing developer inventory is gone and thus you have nothing new to sell - no big deal!

Marriott's minions will be busy at work selling YOUR weeks - they realized that they can make Platinum out of Bronze by concocting a way to use your reservations to sell old, recycled weeks that they bought for peanuts because of the new scheme they unleashed on their owners killed the resale market.

From a stockholders' perspective this is what MBA wizards are supposed to do.

From the owners' perspective this will just suck....

It must be crowded inside your head with all those thoughts and paranoia's whizzing around.

If this was anything new under the sun, you might get a little traction. But the fact is these types of systems have been around for many years now and the sky hasn't fallen on any of the owners in any of those systems as far as I can tell.

Wyndham has a points based system
Hilton has a points based system
Starwood has a points based system,
Festiva has a points based system
Shell has a points based system
DRI has a points based trust ownership system with deeded weeks in a points based membership and deeded weeks not in the system at all
Disney has a trust based ownership with deeded weeks.

The only system I see complaints about right now is Starwood and that's mainly concerning their MF"s.

I think the evidence heavily favors this being no big deal to owners vs the sky falling on Mariott. This is NOT anything new to the timeshare world. In fact, Marriott may be one of the last major chains to embrace a points based internal system. IMHO, Marriott has been losing it's competitive edge by not offering some sort of internal system that's better than there Marriott preference through Interval. Marriott weeks, at this time, are readily available to anyone with a resort week that has half decent exchange power. I've seen it posted before, maybe even by you, why own an expensive Marriott week when you can buy cheap and trade in.

In the end, you're rantings are like spitting into the wind. It's NOT going to affect what Marroitt is or is not going to do.

 

[PerryM]

It must be crowded inside your head with all those thoughts and paranoia's whizzing around.

If this was anything new under the sun, you might get a little traction. But the fact is these types of systems have been around for many years now and the sky hasn't fallen on any of the owners in any of those systems as far as I can tell.

Wyndham has a points based system
Hilton has a points based system
Starwood has a points based system,
Festiva has a points based system
Shell has a points based system
DRI has a points based trust ownership system with deeded weeks in a points based membership and deeded weeks not in the system at all
Disney has a trust based ownership with deeded weeks.

The only system I see complaints about right now is Starwood and that's mainly concerning their MF"s.

I think the evidence heavily favors this being no big deal to owners vs the sky falling on Mariott. This is NOT anything new to the timeshare world. In fact, Marriott may be one of the last major chains to embrace a points based internal system. IMHO, Marriott has been losing it's competitive edge by not offering some sort of internal system that's better than there Marriott preference through Interval. Marriott weeks, at this time, are readily available to anyone with a resort week that has half decent exchange power. I've seen it posted before, maybe even by you, why own an expensive Marriott week when you can buy cheap and trade in.

In the end, you're rantings are like spitting into the wind. It's NOT going to affect what Marroitt is or is not going to do.

I've come to appreciate, over the years, the more emotional the response to my posts the more I've made the Point I wanted to make.

Thanks...

 

[m61376]

I forgot to post, perhaps the most important material. The chart for trading into II/MVCI. The Marriott presentation book uses Low, Moderate and High. The Marriott rep wrote Gold, Platinum and Platinum Plus next to each of these headings because all of the direct Asia resorts use Gold, Platinum and Plat +. Perhaps Platinum is a blend of Platinum and Silver (or in some cases red and white).

GOLD or Low (TDI 50-80):
Studio 10,000, 1bdrm 15,000, 2bdrm 23,000, 3bdrm 32,500
PLATINUM or Moderate (TDI 80-120)
Studio 15,000, 1bdrm 23,000, 2bdrm 32,500, 3bdrm 45,000
PLATINUM PLUS or High (TDI 120-150+)
Studio 27,500, 1bdrm 42,500, 2bdrm 60,000, 3 bdrm 85,000

Keep in mind the Platinum Plus is probably for Christmas, New Years and Chinese New Years for the Asian people. Anyone who knows the II TDI index best will be able to add to this post.

For the Caribbean, weeks 52 and then weeks 1-9 with the exception of week 4 are all in the TDI range of 120-150. So a 2BR exchange would "cost" the points of 1.5-2 weeks of other Platinum weeks even.

 

[dougp26364]

I've come to appreciate, over the years, the more emotional the response to my posts the more I've made the Point I wanted to make.

Thanks...

I hate to tell you this but, the only point you've made is, you have a gold week you puchased resale primarily to trade up into a system and brag about the value you were getting. Now comes a rumor that maybe the gravy train is coming to an end you you're looking for any scapegoat to blame for your potential bad position.

You're scared, you're making stuff up and it's showing. If you were buying weeks stircly to use and exchange on occasion, you wouldn't be in this spot. Instead I believe you've been playing the system buying cheap units to use to get more expensive units, then sitting back patting yourself on the back for your shrewd businessmanship. What else can you say other than to complain that Marriott is screwing you over and then trying to get everyone else to see that Marriott is screwing everyone over. I guess the only other thing you could say is opps.

When you treat timeshare as ANYTHING more than an investment in how you vacation, then you're taking huge chances. I'm sitting here with two Marriott weeks and I'm not sweating it. I bought my timeshares to use and exchange occasionally. One week is a lowelyt silver season and the other a platinum season in Vegas, which is considered overbuilt. So long as I can use my purchase for it's intended use.....that is to take vacations at those resorts.....then I'm not worried.

Now, if I'd have bought those weeks on the cheap with the intention of always trading up, sure, I'd be like you and be worried about my investement. But that's you're mistake IMHO. You bought as an investment other than to vacation in the season you own at the resort you own. That's YOUR tuff luck but, it doesn't affect the fact that we'll all have choices if there is a change made.

Personally, I wish you'd stop with the scare tactics. It's not constructive. At this point, none of us know a thing about what might be offered. The only one promoting scare tactics is you and maybe a few rogue salesmen. Marriott has been rather quite on the subject.

 

[PerryM]

I hate to tell you this but, the only point you've made is, you have a gold week you puchased resale primarily to trade up into a system and brag about the value you were getting. Now comes a rumor that maybe the gravy train is coming to an end you you're looking for any scapegoat to blame for your potential bad position.

You're scared, you're making stuff up and it's showing. If you were buying weeks stircly to use and exchange on occasion, you wouldn't be in this spot. Instead I believe you've been playing the system buying cheap units to use to get more expensive units, then sitting back patting yourself on the back for your shrewd businessmanship. What else can you say other than to complain that Marriott is screwing you over and then trying to get everyone else to see that Marriott is screwing everyone over. I guess the only other thing you could say is opps.

When you treat timeshare as ANYTHING more than an investment in how you vacation, then you're taking huge chances. I'm sitting here with two Marriott weeks and I'm not sweating it. I bought my timeshares to use and exchange occasionally. One week is a lowelyt silver season and the other a platinum season in Vegas, which is considered overbuilt. So long as I can use my purchase for it's intended use.....that is to take vacations at those resorts.....then I'm not worried.

Now, if I'd have bought those weeks on the cheap with the intention of always trading up, sure, I'd be like you and be worried about my investement. But that's you're mistake IMHO. You bought as an investment other than to vacation in the season you own at the resort you own. That's YOUR tuff luck but, it doesn't affect the fact that we'll all have choices if there is a change made.

Personally, I wish you'd stop with the scare tactics. It's not constructive. At this point, none of us know a thing about what might be offered. The only one promoting scare tactics is you and maybe a few rogue salesmen. Marriott has been rather quite on the subject.

My goodness I'm better than I thought I was....

 

[GregT]

Ko'Olina Platinum:
Studio Suite- 22,300
1 bedroom - 32,100
2 bedroom - 48,900

Ko'Olina Platinum-Plus:
Studio Suite- 26,800
1 bedroom - 38,500
2 bedroom - 58,900

The interesting thing about Ko'Olina is they do not guarantee an ocean view. You can choose with Waiohai.

I think that it is very interesting that they don't guarantee on ocean view for the Asia Points program -- HGVC permits you to use more points to get a Premier or Plus unit that has a superior view, but this is one thing I will watch for in a new program, to see if you can get to the view you want.

Asia, thanks for posting this.

 

[MOXJO7282]

If the way Marriott handled the Gift of Time is any indication I believe Marriott will continue to do the right thing by their owners.

There were hundreds of prime weeks that Marriott could have cherry-picked from and rented at a premium but they did the right thing and released them at cost to its most valued owners. I picked up more than a few that really adds to the value of my ownership.

Marriott won't screw over its clientele IMHO.

We'll see who eat their words, us pro-Marriott guys or the Perrys of the world.

I know one thing, those that have been constantly pontificating will have a big meal.

 

[aka Julie]

Deleted. Wrong threat.

 

[dougp26364]

My goodness I'm better than I thought I was....

Yes, you're pretty good.

Lest someone get the wrong impression, I simply enjoy a spirited debate. Perry's been around a long time and, fortunately for me, he usually takes the opposing side of any opinion that I hold. It's always good to hear opposing views and, while my views differ from Perry's, it doesn't mean that I don't read his posts and think about them.

But I still think he's over thinking this thing and over reacting.......for now.

 

[dougp26364]

In the FWIW area. I'm at a Marriott resort right now. I didn't take the sales tour because I didn't figure that the salesmen will know any more than any of us on the subject at this time. Even if they did, I don't think they'd be able to share it with me at the risk of getting into hot water.

However, I think we may be focusing in on the wrong program if our focus is on the AP program. Marriott runs an adds for their timeshares on the TV (yes I actually watch them and pay attention). One thing that has caught my attention is the Ritz-Carlton Destination Club infomercial. Towards the end, it states ownership can be choosen at one home resort or, can be choosen in the club.

This has made me go hmmmmm. Fletch has stated there will be no home resort in the new system To me this spells trust ownership, RTU ownership or Destination Club. So I'm wondering if the new program will be based more along the lines of the RC destination club rather than the AP program? Might there be an option to have a home resort but still have points for when one wants to exchange? If so, that sounds like an intriguing opportunity to me and would be something that would hold my initial attention.

Hopefully Marriott will put us our of a misery next month and actually give us some details that we can sink our teeth into, digest it and figure out the pro's and con's.

 

[m61376]

Doug- The only reason why I am doubtful about that is that the Ritz program has not been a success, from what I've heard anyway. I had been told that they were at one point considering that as a model, but the less than stellar response for that program is what fueled the delay in this one.

I agree with Joe in that, heretofore, Marriott has been a great company to deal with. I can only hope as it tries to make a program that will benefit the company and future customers that it doesn't create a booking quagmire for its current owners, as well as maintaining the value that current owners are accustomed to. Looking at a potential program from an outside perspective, I can see the attractiveness of a purely points based program- but what you need for how you want to travel and add on whatever you need at a future time if you wish. Reserve the size you want for as long as you want to stay. And pay annual fees commensurate only with what you own (less points means lower fees).

IF it was a brand new program I could see how that would be an attractive product. The issue here is that it is not a new program, many owners bought weeks to primarily use at their home resort and, while they may opt to trade on occasion, want to book what and when they bought for in the first place (home resort priority) and, let's face it, old habits are hard to break. The expectations of some for consistent upgrades is not what the system was intended to provide for in the first place, and I can understand that a new program will strive for more equity.

I think one of the big issues is how "equity" is defined. How will points be assigned and how will they be assigned to future resorts? Will timeshare points essentially undergo a devaluation as newer resorts come on board? Will people be misled into believing that they can easily reserve prime weeks, such that, in essence, Platinum weeks are sold over and over again (perhaps not literally, but with people buying with that illusion, as Perry contends)? How will MF's be affected, and how will they be balanced between owners retaining their weeks based ownership and those in the new system? How will inventory and reservations be apportioned? I think these are the questions that we will need to see answered before deciding whether any new system holds merit.

I can say that I do not like many of the features of the Asia Pacific program. Many Plat. week owners don't have enough points for Plat. like for like (size/length of stay) elsewhere. Even Hawaii weeks owners could not make a like for like exchange in II for a Caribbean week during prime winter months, because the points assigned for trading into high TDI weeks are just too high. And we will still need II for life outside of Marriott.

I agree that the next month should be interesting.

 

[jin]

Doug- The only reason why I am doubtful about that is that the Ritz program has not been a success, from what I've heard anyway. I had been told that they were at one point considering that as a model, but the less than stellar response for that program is what fueled the delay in this one.

I agree with Joe in that, heretofore, Marriott has been a great company to deal with. I can only hope as it tries to make a program that will benefit the company and future customers that it doesn't create a booking quagmire for its current owners, as well as maintaining the value that current owners are accustomed to. Looking at a potential program from an outside perspective, I can see the attractiveness of a purely points based program- but what you need for how you want to travel and add on whatever you need at a future time if you wish. Reserve the size you want for as long as you want to stay. And pay annual fees commensurate only with what you own (less points means lower fees).

IF it was a brand new program I could see how that would be an attractive product. The issue here is that it is not a new program, many owners bought weeks to primarily use at their home resort and, while they may opt to trade on occasion, want to book what and when they bought for in the first place (home resort priority) and, let's face it, old habits are hard to break. The expectations of some for consistent upgrades is not what the system was intended to provide for in the first place, and I can understand that a new program will strive for more equity.

I think one of the big issues is how "equity" is defined. How will points be assigned and how will they be assigned to future resorts? Will timeshare points essentially undergo a devaluation as newer resorts come on board? Will people be misled into believing that they can easily reserve prime weeks, such that, in essence, Platinum weeks are sold over and over again (perhaps not literally, but with people buying with that illusion, as Perry contends)? How will MF's be affected, and how will they be balanced between owners retaining their weeks based ownership and those in the new system? How will inventory and reservations be apportioned? I think these are the questions that we will need to see answered before deciding whether any new system holds merit.

I can say that I do not like many of the features of the Asia Pacific program. Many Plat. week owners don't have enough points for Plat. like for like (size/length of stay) elsewhere. Even Hawaii weeks owners could not make a like for like exchange in II for a Caribbean week during prime winter months, because the points assigned for trading into high TDI weeks are just too high. And we will still need II for life outside of Marriott.

I agree that the next month should be interesting.

I own both Marriott and HGVC weeks. Personally, I think the Hilton System of points is THE BEST and most fair program out there, bar none. I am surprised there has not been more discussion on this system, since it really works, and is well accepted by members. I am hoping that Marriott opts to implement their points program around the HGVC business model, which has a lot of happy owners, including resale owners!! Pete

 

[Dean]

Any new "system/program" will simply be another incentive/trading program, nothing to do with reservation rights. :deadhorse:

Maybe, I think it depends on how they implement it but not necessarily so. Lets take Grande Ocean Platinum for example. Say 50% of the owners convert but technically the weeks converted (on the deed) are the lower weeks within the season. Does Marriott move deeded week by deeded week or do they simply open up 50 % of each week during the season. So after you've answered the question of who can reserved X units during a given week then you have the question of HOW. Assuming the current system of 12/13 and a 12 month window on points, the weeks owners as a group will be able to reserve earlier than the points owners. Even if the systems run separate inventory, which they really should, the question of which units/weeks are included in the points vs weeks side is very critical and likely will be somewhat subjective. It's unrealistic to assume that the current members will be status quo from a reservation standpoint and also unrealistic that both systems will be 100% "fair" for every situation.

 

[PerryM]

2 weeks and counting?

To me, this has been a hoot for many months now - I've presented my thoughts on what Marriott might do and why. Others disagree and since we're all guessing here anyway it really doesn't matter until the day of implementation.

So I look forward to June and what Marriott might do.

However, on the day of release we will all have to make some important decisions and my guess is the pressure to convert will be eye-watering.

If I've caused some unsettling feelings well that's why I posted; folks will have to make quick decisions if they want better deals - my guess.

Who knows, maybe Marriott read some of our posts and we had a little do say on their decisions...

 

[m61376]

I own both Marriott and HGVC weeks. Personally, I think the Hilton System of points is THE BEST and most fair program out there, bar none. I am surprised there has not been more discussion on this system, since it really works, and is well accepted by members. I am hoping that Marriott opts to implement their points program around the HGVC business model, which has a lot of happy owners, including resale owners!! Pete

I have heard a lot of positive comments about their program, but to be honest I am not so sure how it works. Could you summarize how the program works and point out limitations (if any)?

I think the more well versed we are on the different points programs and how the programs work, in general, the better we will be able to make informed decisions if/when Marriott introduces one.

 

[jin]

I have heard a lot of positive comments about their program, but to be honest I am not so sure how it works. Could you summarize how the program works and point out limitations (if any)?

I think the more well versed we are on the different points programs and how the programs work, in general, the better we will be able to make informed decisions if/when Marriott introduces one.

Most units in the same season get the same # of pts regardless of location (ex 7000 hgvc pts for a 2br platinum in Orlando OR Hawaii, 4800 for a 1br, regardless of location.) For Gold or silver season you get lesser points. The interesting feature is that everyone at a particular resort with the same number of Bedrooms pays the same M.F. regardless of season. Thus a 3 Br plat will pay the same m.f. as a 3br silver, but get twice the number of points. Because of this, platinum points sell for a premium versus lower seasons. On the other hand, You can often buy a gold or silver for very little versus a platinum, and it often takes a long time before you are behind where you would have been had you bought platinum. Hence there is actually a market for all seasons. With your points, the advantage of owning at say Hawaii, is you can book 12mos in advance, versus 9 mos for non-owners -- hence, the advantage to own at a particular resort. None-the-less, If you can plan 9 mos in advance, you can get pretty much any resort you want. Also you can book 3 or more nights, instead of fixed blocks of 7. For inventory that is not traded for, it goes into "open season" 30 days prior to arrival date where you only need to book 2 nights or more, and can pay very low fixed rates to stay at great resorts. For each year of points, you have 3 yrs to use those actual points at HGVC, RCI, or convert to Hilton Honor points (which NEVER expire) at a 25:1 HH pts per hgvc point (resale owners INCLUDED). You can also borrow points from the following yr if you need to. There are a lot more nuances, but these are the basics. Resale prices have not fallen much since since Hilton is "resale friendly", and still exercises rofr (although at a lower amount than in better economies). Quality wise, the resorts are pretty much equal to Marriott as a whole in my opinion. Pete

 

[cruisin]

The best part, is they could build anywhere and sell the promise of Aruba and Hawaii at New Years to every prospective owner. Don't ever underestimate the fact that getting rid of deeds allows them to sell week 52 at every resort to every owner forever.

If they roll out a pure points based system, it will be extremely easy for us to see what their plan is. It just seems unrealistic for them not to take the easiest most profitable path?

 

[Asia2000]

Asia Pacific Program

Doug- The only reason why I am doubtful about that is that the Ritz program has not been a success, from what I've heard anyway. I had been told that they were at one point considering that as a model, but the less than stellar response for that program is what fueled the delay in this one.

I can say that I do not like many of the features of the Asia Pacific program. Many Plat. week owners don't have enough points for Plat. like for like (size/length of stay) elsewhere. Even Hawaii weeks owners could not make a like for like exchange in II for a Caribbean week during prime winter months, because the points assigned for trading into high TDI weeks are just too high. And we will still need II for life outside of Marriott.

I agree that the next month should be interesting.

m,

Along the lines of your writing, in my opinion it does not appear that the Asia Pacific program is very successful either. I know Marriott had a huge write down on their last earnings report for Asia. The resort that was really built to host the AP program, Mai Khao Beach VC, appears to have plenty of vacancy. It is a beautiful property, but it is not beachfront like the brand new Renaissance just down the street is. Instead of ocean, you overlook the Anatara Phuket resort which is a 50/50 venture Marriott has itself in (very interesting property if you have time to look at it online). Marriott Vacation Club actually has their offices in the hotel building of Mai Khao Beach. The MVC Bangkok Empire Place is also barren (before the conflicts here). The Empire Place is a points or II only destination - no deeds sold on it. When we visited Empire Place a while back, it was a ghost town.

Another point which can gauge the success of the AP program is resales. Resales are very few (many timeshare brokers have never heard or seen of the program), which either tells me:
1. They just have not sold that many programs.
2. People who buy, like them and do not sell.
3. People who buy, do not want to lose face by selling it for a big discount.

I just have a feeling that compared to deeded weeks, the sales are quite soft. It could be a different story in a more "spend happy" environment like the USA. However, Americans will be more apt to compare the program to buying a deeded week on Ebay. Maybe Marriott will go back to exercising the FROR?

 

[dougp26364]

The best part, is they could build anywhere and sell the promise of Aruba and Hawaii at New Years to every prospective owner. Don't ever underestimate the fact that getting rid of deeds allows them to sell week 52 at every resort to every owner forever.

If they roll out a pure points based system, it will be extremely easy for us to see what their plan is. It just seems unrealistic for them not to take the easiest most profitable path?

This is one of Perry's stronger points as well and one that I can't argue with. If you've ever attended a HGVC sales presentation in Vegas, you'll hear the salesman telling his manger that so-and-so just bought and they're going to Hawaii. HGVC does a great job of selling Hawaii to every prospect that walks through the door. The thing is, it's not that difficult with HGVC's system to get a week......or just a few day......in Hawaii. Their system really works very well.

The trick with any points based system is to realize that there is almost always "some" availabity at every resort. In our case with HGVC and Hawaii, I wanted a 2 bedroom ocean front unit and had the points to pay for it, even though we only owned a standard 2 bedroom unit. The problem was there wasn't an ocean front unit of any size available for the timeframe when we wanted to go to Hawaii. I had my choice of a 1 bedroom ocean view or a 2 bedroom city view. We choose the 1 bedroom ocean view.

HGVC controls it's inventory much better than Marriott currently controls it's inventory. There is frequently some availability at any resort once the home resort advantage period is over. It's not impossible to get ski weeks or Hawaiian weeks no matter where you own. With Marriott you may have to plan and pray to get your exchange. We spend a lot of time asking questions like, "Will a winter Branson week pull a winter week in Aruba?" In a points based system, the only question is concerning availabilty. Yes you can trade that winter Branson week for a winter Aruba week but, you may have to save points from the current year to the next and then you might also have to borrow points from the next year (using 3 years worth of points) to have enough points to make the exchange. Then you have to hope that there are weeks available when you're allowed to book. So the question comes down to owner occupancy.

We can speculate what availability will be like all day long. We won't really know until a few years down the line. It will take going through a few seasons to see how it really shakes out as far as members being able to get the trades they want.

I own in two different points based systems. I am always amazed at the availability I see so long as the resorts I'm looking at are managed by the company I own with and are not just affiliated with the program (managed by another company and offering limited availability to program members). Hawaii is actually a VERY easy trade through both DRI and HGVC, both points based systems. I can see and choose the resort I want. With Marriott, I submitted three different resorts and a one month timeframe, then had to wait and see what got matched. With Marriott as it stands now, I give them options and Interval chooses the match. With HGVC or DRI I shop and choose my own destination from the dates available. Personally, I prefer the points based systems but, I also want home resort advantage for those times when we choose to use our home resort.

 

[PerryM]

It's all imaginary Marriott...

m,

Along the lines of your writing, in my opinion it does not appear that the Asia Pacific program is very successful either. I know Marriott had a huge write down on their last earnings report for Asia. The resort that was really built to host the AP program, Mai Khao Beach VC, appears to have plenty of vacancy. It is a beautiful property, but it is not beachfront like the brand new Renaissance just down the street is. Instead of ocean, you overlook the Anatara Phuket resort which is a 50/50 venture Marriott has itself in (very interesting property if you have time to look at it online). Marriott Vacation Club actually has their offices in the hotel building of Mai Khao Beach. The MVC Bangkok Empire Place is also barren (before the conflicts here). The Empire Place is a points or II only destination - no deeds sold on it. When we visited Empire Place a while back, it was a ghost town.

Another point which can gauge the success of the AP program is resales. Resales are very few (many timeshare brokers have never heard or seen of the program), which either tells me:
1. They just have not sold that many programs.
2. People who buy, like them and do not sell.
3. People who buy, do not want to lose face by selling it for a big discount.

I just have a feeling that compared to deeded weeks, the sales are quite soft. It could be a different story in a more "spend happy" environment like the USA. However, Americans will be more apt to compare the program to buying a deeded week on Ebay. Maybe Marriott will go back to exercising the FROR?

After many years of trying to explain the WorldMark program to folks and Marriott program I've come to the conclusion that explaining Imaginary Numbers is probably easier than a Point based system.

Imagine Marriott's task - after years and years of educating 400k+ owners on how their system works and millions and millions of folks on sales tours Marriott must now throw that out the window and explain a Point based system.

Imagine the glazed eyes of owners when Marriott asks for $2,500 (my guess) per week in order to explain this new system.

Imagine the shock of owners, who never get the word, calling in to make a reservation and Marriott wants to know which credit card to charge the $2,500 in order to make that reservation.

Imagine Marriott deciding to do this when real estate is circling the toilet.

Imagine Marriott doing this when credit is super tight.

Imagine when the owners realize that the new Point based exchange system is no better than II; all that money, anxiety, and learning for nothing.

Imagine the stockholder's wondering why this HUGE shift in selling timeshares is scheduled now and 400k+ owners very upset with learning a new system and not wanting to shovel out big bucks.

Imagine Marriott deciding that this is the absolute worst time to do this and just drop the whole idea.......

 

[MOXJO7282]

The best part, is they could build anywhere and sell the promise of Aruba and Hawaii at New Years to every prospective owner. Don't ever underestimate the fact that getting rid of deeds allows them to sell week 52 at every resort to every owner forever.

If they roll out a pure points based system, it will be extremely easy for us to see what their plan is. It just seems unrealistic for them not to take the easiest most profitable path?

I've heard this concern before and the reason I don't buy into it is because how is it any different than when a sales guy in Orlando says buy Orlando and trade to Hawaii or rent it for rack rate. Sales guys are always coming up with some BS, so the promise of Aruba New Years is't much different.