Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[dioxide45]

Hi...

I have faith in the human condition!!! I don't think there will be a single conversion until the customer views the "CHART". This is going to be billed as "ALL ACCESS" isn't anyone going to check????


I know TUGGERS are a cynical lot, but this is ludicrous. Even for us!!!

Anyone have a link to the Asia Pacific points chart that would happen to be available on a Marriott website?

I couldn't find one at http://www.marriottasiaholidays.com/index.shtml

 

[taffy19]

I think short term, there will be little change. Except that people will be looking at the point charts (if there are any) and valuing their weeks. People who are trading their week for another will know how Marriott values them and expect additional compensation if their week is worth more in points.



Ownertrades.com has listings also. Just for Marriott to Marriott *



I think for the most part people looking to do direct trades have prime weeks and are also looking for prime weeks. We own at Grande Vista and would never look to do a direct exchange. I know that no one will want to give up their prime week/location for something they can get as a getaway for cheap.

With the current exchange system, trade value is a secret. In a points system it is much more transparent. People will know how Marriott values weeks/resorts.

Today, people look to direct trades to save some money. They can save $109 + $89 (Marriott to Marriott exchange fee and II membership). A lot depends on how Marriott handles internal exchanges. Will they also charge an exchange fee? If they do and depending on what that is, direct trades could still be a viable option for those looking to save some cash. If Marriott offers it up for free, then direct exchange will be dead in the long term.

I don't expect Marriott to not charge a fee for internal exchanges. They need to pay for all of the research and development somehow.

Don't you feel that owners do private exchanges because they know that owners get better views than exchangers or it is easier to make an exchange from a 2 or 3 BR condo to another one of the same size?

 

[brigechols]

Don't you feel that owners do private exchanges because they know that owners get better views than exchangers or it is easier to make an exchange from a 2 or 3 BR condo to another one of the same size?

For me, a private exchange is an opportunity to take the uncertainty out of an exchange (where and when). I like to plan in advance for spring break and summer break and it is great to connect with other owners having similar motivation.

 

[jin]

For me, a private exchange is an opportunity to take the uncertainty out of an exchange (where and when). I like to plan in advance for spring break and summer break and it is great to connect with other owners having similar motivation.

I am considering a private exchange, but have an important question --- How does the transaction occur in such a way that you know the other side is not going to scam your week, and not follow through with a week they promised you at their resort (assuming it is a later week than mine)? This is my main concern because I likely won't know how honest the trader on the other side might be??

 

[DanCali]

This is my main concern because I likely won't know how honest the trader on the other side might be??

I haven't done a direct exchange yet, but I don't see this concern much different from renting from someone.

When you rent, you never know if the owner keeps your name on the reservation. But if you have a written contract it presumably makes things safer and gives you some protection (and ground to take things to small claims court if anything goes wrong). Also, as you're talking to the person you can get an idea of who they are (just by using Google for starters) and how reliable or accessible they are.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I've done one direct exchange and it was with another tugger so there was a sense of comfort there. I traded a GO gold oceanside for the same at Oceanwatch for the same exact week. I think that was a very even exchange.

I wish it were easier but it just seems to me its not all that easy to find what you want exactly when you need it.

 

[Dean]

I haven't done a direct exchange yet, but I don't see this concern much different from renting from someone.

When you rent, you never know if the owner keeps your name on the reservation. But if you have a written contract it presumably makes things safer and gives you some protection (and ground to take things to small claims court if anything goes wrong). Also, as you're talking to the person you can get an idea of who they are (just by using Google for starters) and how reliable or accessible they are.

A direct exchange, like a private rental, entails a lot of trust. The risk is less for the one traveling first and more for the one traveling last. I think the main way to avoid issues is to simply be clear about the expectations. For that many use a contract though I don't think a contract offers as much protection as some do. Certainly some sense of familiarity is helpful as in Joe's case.

 

[JimIg23]

I agree with the direct exhanges, either with those I know or tuggers I see here alot. I have had good luck with the travel agencies in Ebay with extremely high positive volumes for my weekend trips rentals, although I have only done those to places I can drive too just in case something went wrong....

 

[winger]

Direct exchanges with TUG members and private parties I know (neighbors, co-workers, etc) seem to have worked for us so far. But we still mainly use II.

 

[dioxide45]

Anyone have a link to the Asia Pacific points chart that would happen to be available on a Marriott website?

I couldn't find one at http://www.marriottasiaholidays.com/index.shtml

I think the fact that this can't really be located online is evidence enough that Marriott won't be overly forthcoming with a points chart under a new system.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

regardless of the method of purchase (retail or resale) it is my humble opinion that MVCI (and other high end TS products) owners are a moderately successful and well educated group that have invested anywhere from 10k to 200K (sometimes more) in this product...

I still am incredulous that a SINGLE one will convert to points without a "CHART".

I still have faith in the "human condition"....

 

[James1975NY]

I think the fact that this can't really be located online is evidence enough that Marriott won't be overly forthcoming with a points chart under a new system.

This is not uncommon. I am sure that the owners of the Asia-Pacific club have access to it online.

 

[dioxide45]

This is not uncommon. I am sure that the owners of the Asia-Pacific club have access to it online.

I don't doubt owners have all the access they need. It is the access to those looking to buy in that need to go to a presentation to see the coveted points chart. But they only get to see, touching is limited, and keeping is out of the question.

 

[drp392]

The DVC charts are accessible online and it's the only reason I haven't bought from them. Have you ever looked at how many points it takes for a 3BR prime season? I'm guessing you have to buy $100K+ in points just for that one week every year. Please tell me this new points system won't be that ridiculous.

 

[m61376]

I venture to guess even if they don't officially post them online, somehow they will be posted online here within a day or two of release.

Marriott will have to release the info. to prospective buyers. How else will they "wow" them with the potential trades they can get now, and their ability to upgrade at any time. In order to sell the flexibility they will have to provide the numbers.

 

[dioxide45]

I venture to guess even if they don't officially post them online, somehow they will be posted online here within a day or two of release.

Marriott will have to release the info. to prospective buyers. How else will they "wow" them with the potential trades they can get now, and their ability to upgrade at any time. In order to sell the flexibility they will have to provide the numbers.

I agree, someone will have to abscond with them from a sales presentation. We will then see them on here.

 

[puckmanfl]

Hi...

The "CHART" will be everywhere!!! MVCI is betting the future of their organization on it. They are only going to get one "crack at it" and I truly hope they get it right!!!

The "CHART" will be the key to "sellin' the dream". Even Perry is laying low waiting for its release!!!

Dioxide is right, the internet may implode on release day!!!

 

[Dean]

The DVC charts are accessible online and it's the only reason I haven't bought from them. Have you ever looked at how many points it takes for a 3BR prime season? I'm guessing you have to buy $100K+ in points just for that one week every year. Please tell me this new points system won't be that ridiculous.

It's not that bad for most resorts but the 3 BR units are at a premium with DVC. Depending on home resort and season, maybe $40-60K and yearly fees in the $2500-3000 range. BLT will be more and it will be around $100K or more in some cases. The problem with DVC besides that it's set up purposefully for the 3 BR to be at a premium (about the same as a 2 BR and 2 studios) is that there is no guarantee in getting them even with home resort priority and calling day 1 when they open. I would agree that the first guess will have to be the best guess but I suspect Marriott will reserve the right to adjust them as needed.

 

[jlf58]

I am real curious to see what places like Marco and Oceana Palms are getting points wise. Magically they will get alot of points to improve sales.. My guess is Marco Platinum will get as much as Maui Sequel Platinum

Hi...

The "CHART" will be everywhere!!! MVCI is betting the future of their organization on it. They are only going to get one "crack at it" and I truly hope they get it right!!!

The "CHART" will be the key to "sellin' the dream". Even Perry is laying low waiting for its release!!!

Dioxide is right, the internet may implode on release day!!!

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

After the "CHART" is evaluated, the next question will be...

What will this cost (fee +MF's) and how does it compare to current costs??

The savy owner is going to have to look at the fine print to see what can be "changed" at the developers discretion!!!

 

[m61376]

I am real curious to see what places like Marco and Oceana Palms are getting points wise. Magically they will get alot of points to improve sales.. My guess is Marco Platinum will get as much as Maui Sequel Platinum

If the system is a points overlay system with home resort priority I understand that. But- IF the system is purely a points based system, will assigning a lot of points to March and/or Oceana Palms improve sales? That confuses me a little- because then wouldn't it actually "cost" more to trade into, because the buyer would need to buy more points up front?

I understand how higher point assignment has been used to artificially bolster sales by Starwood, for ex., but IF Marriott adopts a program similar to the Asia Pacific program I'm a bit confused as to how heightened point value would be a stimulus for sales. How would that work?

 

[JimIg23]

I agree, someone will have to abscond with them from a sales presentation. We will then see them on here.

Hopefully a Tugger goes to a sales presentation the day they are finished with training!

 

[Asia2000]

Asia

Anyone have a link to the Asia Pacific points chart that would happen to be available on a Marriott website?

Dioxide,

I have the charts. Just let me know what you are interested in knowing. For the US resorts. It's Hawaii Ko'Olina, Hawaii Waiohai and Vegas Chateau. MVC-AP considers all 52 weeks either Platinum or Platinum Plus at all three of these resorts. Platinum Plus weeks are New Years, Christmas and Chinese New Years (last week in January). I'll just give you 7 day point levels.

Ko'Olina Platinum:
Studio Suite- 22,300
1 bedroom - 32,100
2 bedroom - 48,900

Ko'Olina Platinum-Plus:
Studio Suite- 26,800
1 bedroom - 38,500
2 bedroom - 58,900
The interesting thing about Ko'Olina is they do not guarantee an ocean view. You can choose with Waiohai.

Waiohai Platinum:
2 bedroom only - OV - 55,800 and Island View 48,700

Waiohai Platinum-Plus:
2 bedroom only - OV - 67,600 and Island View 58,700

Vegas Platinum:
Studio Suite - 17,500
1 bedroom - 24,900
2 bedroom - 38,000

Vegas Platinum-Plus:
Studio Suite - 24,900
1 bedroom - 35,600
2 bedroom - 54,400

Phuket Beach Clubhas only 2 bedroom units.
Gold - 20,700
Platinum - 32,700
Platinum Plus - 60,300

Mai Khao Beach - 2 bedroom only. Some with plunge pools.
Gold - 20,700 - plunge pool - 23,900
Platinum - 32,700 - plunge pool - 37,500
Platinum Plus - 60,300 - plunge pool - 69,300

The plunge pools are exactly that. Very small and probably better than nothing. However, the large pools are not far from the plunge pools outside of your rooms. Maybe a water feature with gold fish may have been more enjoyable - not sure.

The 22 club connection hotels run between 2,500 (Courtyard level) up to 4,000 (Ritz Carlton) Club points per night. 3 in Austrailia. 5 in China. One in Indonesia. 3 in Japan. 1 in Malaysia, South Korea, Thailand and Vietnam (4 total in these). All Marriotts (Courtyard through Ritz-Carlton) except for the one in Indonesia - Ayana Resort and Spa in Bali.

If you buy direct from Marriott - you get something called Express Breaks. Basically you can stay for .027 x the nightly point level for up to 3 nights. Around $63 a night at Phuket Beach Club (2 bdrm) if you stay on a Mon, Tues, Wed or Thurs.

The demand levels or point levels are definitely set up for Asians. Here in Thailand, I would think people would get more excited about Las Vegas than Hawaii. In my mind, Hawaii climates and beauty are already here, if not better, in Thailand.

Any questions, please let me know.

 

[mjm1]

Asia 2000, thanks for the info. What are the points for Palm Desert I, Palm Desert II, and Shadow Ridge?

 

[Asia2000]

MVC-AP II Club Point Requirements

I forgot to post, perhaps the most important material. The chart for trading into II/MVCI. The Marriott presentation book uses Low, Moderate and High. The Marriott rep wrote Gold, Platinum and Platinum Plus next to each of these headings because all of the direct Asia resorts use Gold, Platinum and Plat +. Perhaps Platinum is a blend of Platinum and Silver (or in some cases red and white).

GOLD or Low (TDI 50-80):
Studio 10,000, 1bdrm 15,000, 2bdrm 23,000, 3bdrm 32,500
PLATINUM or Moderate (TDI 80-120)
Studio 15,000, 1bdrm 23,000, 2bdrm 32,500, 3bdrm 45,000
PLATINUM PLUS or High (TDI 120-150+)
Studio 27,500, 1bdrm 42,500, 2bdrm 60,000, 3 bdrm 85,000

Keep in mind the Platinum Plus is probably for Christmas, New Years and Chinese New Years for the Asian people. Anyone who knows the II TDI index best will be able to add to this post.