Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[SueDonJ]

There is not a regulatory requirement that it be disclosed.

But, they do provide "guidance" to the financial community. Every reasonable attempt is made to offer security analysts that cover the company with information about what can be expected in future quarters.
All of 2010, and into 2011, was discussed for each of Marriott's business segments.

What's to hide about a new timeshare product? Especially if it is to be rolled out in the next quarter?

Oh, I get it! Marriott is telling their sales force, who are telling their sales prospects to expect an announcement in June. But, they are not informing timeshare owners, who must be consulted before they tell the people who advise the owners of the company (the stock holders) about it.

Does that really make any sense to you? Not to me.

What if it's not technically a "new timeshare product," but simply an overlay system for internal exchanges? If that's the case then it does make perfect sense to me that Marriott would not make an official announcement until owners have been given notice.

I'm curious - Did Marriott release info related to the AP points system in a quarterly conference call, prior to an official notification to eligible owners?

{edited to add} More fodder - over on the Exchanging board there's a thread about II raising fees $10 come July, except for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges. Hmmm. Could be they're trying to do what they can to remain competitive with another internal exchange option ...

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning.....

Perhaps II will be more liberal with AC's (bonus weeks) in order to encourage MVCI owners to keep their "deeded" weeks and make deposits with II...

just a thought.....

 

[Fredm]

What if it's not technically a "new timeshare product," but simply an overlay system for internal exchanges? If that's the case then it does make perfect sense to me that Marriott would not make an official announcement until owners have been given notice.

I'm curious - Did Marriott release info related to the AP points system in a quarterly conference call, prior to an official notification to eligible owners?

Sue, good point.

If this whole thing is simply an internal exchange game, rather than Marriott actually selling points, then its no big deal. The purpose is to mine the existing owner base for fees. No earth-shattering new there. Just a shift in usage methodology.

But, if Marriott intends to sell points going forward, that's a whole different ball of wax. It's a new product.

But, in either case Marriott would, in its guidance to the investment community, advise that is looking forward to "new and innovative products intended to strengthen fee revenue, blah, blah...". IF it had anything to say.

They did exactly that when discussing hotel conversion prospects for new Autograph properties during the conference call. They represent market opportunities.

Again, what's to hide?

The AP program did not effect "eligible owners" It was a new product for a new market.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm not sure that it's so much, "what's to hide?" but rather, "why invite owner questions/complaints before we're ready to roll out?" That's one way for me to look at it with my wishful thinking, because I'm pretty sure a points-based internal exchange system will be better than what we (personally) currently get from II.

I thought existing owners of the AP-inclusive resorts were eligible at rollout to convert their deeded weeks to points?

 

[Fredm]

I thought existing owners of the AP-inclusive resorts were eligible at rollout to convert their deeded weeks to points?

Sorry, I thought you meant when the AP program was first introduced.

 

[Fredm]

I'm not sure that it's so much, "what's to hide?" but rather, "why invite owner questions/complaints before we're ready to roll out?" That's one way for me to look at it with my wishful thinking, because I'm pretty sure a points-based internal exchange system will be better than what we (personally) currently get from II.

I thought that is exactly was was happening because they have not said anything, except what sales reps are passing around.

 

[SueDonJ]

I thought that is exactly was was happening because they have not said anything, except what sales reps are passing around.

Yeah, except now if somebody calls a Marriott VIP to ask about all these rumors the VIP can say, "sorry, the sales rep 'misspoke' and we do not have an official statement to give." But if/when they do give an official statement, which is what any announcement yesterday would have been, then they'll have to respond to questions/complaints.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sorry, I thought you meant when the AP program was first introduced.

Ah, sorry for the confusion, I meant when they rolled out the conversion option. In either case, though, 2007 when the AP program was introduced and/or 2009 when the conversion option was rolled out, was a related official statement released prior?

 

[Fredm]

Ah, sorry for the confusion, I meant when they rolled out the conversion option. In either case, though, 2007 when the AP program was introduced and/or 2009 when the conversion option was rolled out, was a related official statement released prior?

I don't know about the 2009 conversion. Perhaps I can find it somewhere, or not.

The AP program was introduced in 2002, I believe. Maybe, 2003.
I cannot say if it was pre-announced or not.
I do recall it was rolled out with much fanfare. It was in the newspapers, etc. But, that was an entirely new product for a new market.

 

[dioxide45]

{edited to add} More fodder - over on the Exchanging board there's a thread about II raising fees $10 come July, except for Marriott-to-Marriott exchanges. Hmmm. Could be they're trying to do what they can to remain competitive with another internal exchange option ...

Well, II did just increase the Marriott to Marriott exchange fee by $10 in January. I don't think they increased the other fees at that time. So I wouldn't read to much in to the increase on domestic fees but no Marriott fees. They already dinged us for an extra $10 once, not a sign they are trying to lure us in.

 

[Fredm]

Well, II did just increase the Marriott to Marriott exchange fee by $10 in January. I don't think they increased the other fees at that time. So I wouldn't read to much in to the increase on domestic fees but no Marriott fees. They already dinged us for an extra $10 once, not a sign they are trying to lure us in.

Not surprising. Without new development, there are not many new members paying dues. I.I. is making up for it by milking the member base.

 

[taffy19]

I just noticed a post by Fletch in another thread so looked at several of his other posts too. He worked for the Marriott and since he was able to sell all resorts, he must have been kept up to date more than local sales people at a specific resort. I just reread his post here again so why are we worrying so much if the point program is a plus or minus?

I heard more than once on Maui that they will no longer sell deeded weeks after June so instead they will sell deeded points. I still feel that everyone would have a certain time advantage to reserve the points (time) at their own resort before other people can book at that resort too. With the point system you may have more flexibility and choices like a better view or building.

I feel now that they told us that deeded weeks will no longer be sold so that would give us or any prospect the urgency to buy now and not wait. If it would be better to own a deeded week than owning a package of deeded points at a resort will depend on how more flexible the new system is and what the costs are.

Whatever is best for the consumer will win and Marriott shouldn't forget that if they want to thrive in the future. When I am reading the Starwood board, I am not so optimistic for their future. JMHO.

 

[dougp26364]

Not surprising. Without new development, there are not many new members paying dues. I.I. is making up for it by milking the member base.

Or maybe their expenses have just been going up like everyone else's. I know as an employee, I pretty much like getting a raise each year. Without it I'm thinking about finding a new employer. Taxes go up. Utility costs go up. Rent goes up. Prices go up. IMHO, that's not milking their owner base. It's simply the cost of doing business.

 

[dougp26364]

I just noticed a post by Fletch in another thread so looked at several of his other posts too. He worked for the Marriott and since he was able to sell all resorts, he must have been kept up to date more than local sales people at a specific resort. I just reread his post here again so why are we worrying so much if the point program is a plus or minus?

I heard more than once on Maui that they will no longer sell deeded weeks after June so instead they will sell deeded points. I still feel that everyone would have a certain time advantage to reserve the points (time) at their own resort before other people can book at that resort too. With the point system you may have more flexibility and choices like a better view or building.

I feel now that they told us that deeded weeks will no longer be sold so that would give us or any prospect the urgency to buy now and not wait. If it would be better to own a deeded week than owning a package of deeded points at a resort will depend on how more flexible the new system is and what the costs are.

Whatever is best for the consumer will win and Marriott shouldn't forget that if they want to thrive in the future. When I am reading the Starwood board, I am not so optimistic for their future. JMHO.

It's just change. Change causes panic. People panic. Especially when one or two tuggers start shouting that the sky is falling and the world as we know it is coming to an end.

Yes it will be different. Yes some will not see a benefit to the new program. Yes it may be detrimental to some owners. BUT, this could be a very good change for the majority of owners. None of us will know until Marriott releases the details. Sure Marriott feels it can make more money this way. Timesharing in general has changed towards a points based world and, there are a few timeshares that have gravitated towards trust based owenrships, which are very similar to the RTU ownerships of years ago. Marriott can change with the market or, it can remain where it is. Agressive companies move with the market. Company's that fail, fail to change.

I'm excited about a new opportunity. When I get the details maybe I won't be so excited. Maybe I'll stick with things the way they are. In looking at the way our present ownerships with other companies are set up, my bet is I'm more likely to change with the tide than fight the change of the tide.

 

[Fredm]

Or maybe their expenses have just been going up like everyone else's. I know as an employee, I pretty much like getting a raise each year. Without it I'm thinking about finding a new employer. Taxes go up. Utility costs go up. Rent goes up. Prices go up. IMHO, that's not milking their owner base. It's simply the cost of doing business.

OK, "milking" may not have been the best term. How about "mining"?

Same end result, for the same reason. Few new members.

 

[dougp26364]

OK, "milking" may not have been the best term. How about "mining"?

Same end result, for the same reason. Few new members.

Milking, mining, you're still saying the same thing. Without facts it's hard to say. Assuming never works very well.

Maybe membership has dropped off or, maybe expenses have gone up or, maybe it's a combination of both. At any rate, it seems to be more commmon for prices to go up over time than it is for them to go down. When was the last time Interval had a price increase for it's exchanges or for it's membership fee? While we're at it, when was the last time MF's on any timeshare you own went up? Interval has been very reasonable with rate increases over the years.

 

[Fredm]

Milking, mining, you're still saying the same thing. Without facts it's hard to say. Assuming never works very well.

Maybe membership has dropped off or, maybe expenses have gone up or, maybe it's a combination of both. At any rate, it seems to be more commmon for prices to go up over time than it is for them to go down. When was the last time Interval had a price increase for it's exchanges or for it's membership fee? While we're at it, when was the last time MF's on any timeshare you own went up? Interval has been very reasonable with rate increases over the years.

Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed.

Milking, mining, charging, assessing....

Obviously, fees are increased to cover higher operating costs.
All I said is it is not surprising since there are few new members to cover these costs. No more, no less.
I agree, I.I. provides a good service for the money.

 

[DanCali]

Increasing fees can reduce revenues if people get disgusted and stop paying membership fees or trading (I can argue the same about tax increases...).

Depending on the elasticity of demand, lowering fees can actually increase revenues.

 

[dougp26364]

Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed.

Milking, mining, charging, assessing....

Obviously, fees are increased to cover higher operating costs.
All I said is it is not surprising since there are few new members to cover these costs. No more, no less.
I agree, I.I. provides a good service for the money.

Sorry, I obviously came across wrong. It just sounded as if you were accusing Interval of raising fee's to increase profits rather than increasing fee's secondary to increased business expenses.

 

[Fredm]

Increasing fees can reduce revenues if people get disgusted and stop paying membership fees or trading (I can argue the same about tax increases...).

Depending on the elasticity of demand, lowering fees can actually increase revenues.

True, both ways.

To I.I.'s credit, they have always waited for RCI to increase fees before they would risk a fee increase. I.I. has always maintained a lower fee schedule than RCI.

 

[AceValenta]

I just reserved my Royal Palms Gold and didn't deposit...I received the following letter. I don't know if the last paragraph means anything...I haven't called yet:

The following exchange options are available to you:

Deposit First- Provides up to a three year travel window. This method requires you to relinquish the right to your reserved home resort week first then request your exchange in the future.

Request First- If you want the security of retaining your home resort week until a confirmation if received, choose this method, which provides up to a one year travel window.

Special Marriott Internal Exchange- Provides a combination of Deposit First and Request First options. Call Interval International's Marriott Desk and ask the advisor for more details regarding this special exchange option.

When you contact Interval International to request your exchange, please provide a minimum of three exchange choices. If one of your choices is available, Interval International will confirm you immediately and provide a written confirmation. If one of your choices is not available, place a vacation exchange request. Should one of your requested exchange choices become available, you will receive a confirmation from Interval International. Otherwise, Interval International will contact you periodically to review the status of your request.

 

[dougp26364]

I just reserved my Royal Palms Gold and didn't deposit...I received the following letter. I don't know if the last paragraph means anything...I haven't called yet:

The following exchange options are available to you:

Deposit First- Provides up to a three year travel window. This method requires you to relinquish the right to your reserved home resort week first then request your exchange in the future.

Request First- If you want the security of retaining your home resort week until a confirmation if received, choose this method, which provides up to a one year travel window.

Special Marriott Internal Exchange- Provides a combination of Deposit First and Request First options. Call Interval International's Marriott Desk and ask the advisor for more details regarding this special exchange option.

When you contact Interval International to request your exchange, please provide a minimum of three exchange choices. If one of your choices is available, Interval International will confirm you immediately and provide a written confirmation. If one of your choices is not available, place a vacation exchange request. Should one of your requested exchange choices become available, you will receive a confirmation from Interval International. Otherwise, Interval International will contact you periodically to review the status of your request.

I don't think it means anything. Marriott has had a special Marriott to Marriott preference that is sometime refered to as an internal exchange program. For the first 24 days (I think it's 24 days), only other Marriott owners can see a Marriott deposit. Marriott to Marriott exchanges are also less expensive then exchanging into non-Marriott resorts. Marriott to Marriott exchanges are $109 vs the $139 (soon to be $149) rate normally charged by I.I.

 

[Dean]

I just reserved my Royal Palms Gold and didn't deposit...I received the following letter. I don't know if the last paragraph means anything...I haven't called yet:

The following exchange options are available to you:

Deposit First- Provides up to a three year travel window. This method requires you to relinquish the right to your reserved home resort week first then request your exchange in the future.

Request First- If you want the security of retaining your home resort week until a confirmation if received, choose this method, which provides up to a one year travel window.

Special Marriott Internal Exchange- Provides a combination of Deposit First and Request First options. Call Interval International's Marriott Desk and ask the advisor for more details regarding this special exchange option.

When you contact Interval International to request your exchange, please provide a minimum of three exchange choices. If one of your choices is available, Interval International will confirm you immediately and provide a written confirmation. If one of your choices is not available, place a vacation exchange request. Should one of your requested exchange choices become available, you will receive a confirmation from Interval International. Otherwise, Interval International will contact you periodically to review the status of your request.

Standard exchange language that's been around for some time.

 

[AceValenta]

Thanks....Wasn't sure.

 

[aruba72]

Guess what I find out!

So I just talked with my friend, who just stayed the week in Boston at Marriott's Custom House, with her husband. While they stayed there for the week they went to a seminar all about points and exchanging put on by the sales rep ( I think Tim?) and then decided to also meet with him after for a sales presentation. As I referred her to the program she was telling me some information that I did not know that much about. The sales rep told them a little more in depth about resales. I knew some things about it , but what she told me was very unusual. He told them that resales was like normal real estate and that they could make an offer. They put in an offer for a Platinum 2 bedroom Mountainside ski week that normally sells for $53,000 by the developer.They decided to put in an offer for $30,000 they came up with this price by looking up similiar weeks on the interent, and then decided the points were worth a little bit more. There offer was accepted! And their rep showed them how to earn over 500,000 points in the first year. They are super excited becuase they're going to use the points for a 14 night trip to Austrailia and flying first class. She told me what this trip would cost them is more than what they paid for thier Park City week. Can anyone tell me how she thinks this? So it makes me wonder, of all the previous notes in this tug conversation does this have something to do with the changes?!?