Schools reopening or not

[jackio]

NY has released their guidelines plus an additional document clarifying some points.
Each district must submit 3 plans : full in-person learning, full virtual learning, and a hybrid version.
Social distancing must be maintained. In the event it cannot be maintained (like on a school bus), masks must be worn at all times.
Fall sports will be delayed and played in the early spring.
Individuals with medical conditions that put them at increased risk (both students and staff) will have accommodations made.
It will be interesting to see what the plans look like, and what we eventually end up doing.

 

[mdurette]

Schools open. On a Monday a substitute is called into a building to sub for a teacher. That sub has had contact with 130 students (high school) and multiple staff members. That sub goes home and then goes to a different school on Tuesday and a different one each subsequent day. On Friday the sub is exhausted but chalks it up to working the full week. On Saturday that person wakes up with a 103 temperature. Goes to the ER and is tested for COVID. Test is positive. 5 different schools with many students and staff members have now been exposed. What do you do??
IMHO you keep schools on online learning until there is a major reduction in cases or a vaccine.

My DD's school (small private) have already announced they will not have subs this year. (unless is it for something like long term medical like a teacher having a baby). They will deal with daily subs with admin staff if needed.

 

[Cornell]

Our school district released their plans yesterday. It's a district that serves 12,000 students across 6 high schools.

I was blown away by the ingenuity & creativity of the plan. Complete thinking outside of the box by the people who put this together -- all while working within the guidelines that IDPH has given them.

It's very complex to describe here. The high level summary: they have outfitted all of the classrooms with new audio systems. EVERY day , in every class teachers will be streaming their classes live. Students on any given day can choose to participate in class from home or go to school. There is no "hybrid" thing. Students do not have to commit to a at home vs. online option -- they make the choice day by day.

They have done some clever things with schedules and lunch to reduce the number of kids in the hallways and forming large groups at lunch. Additionally, the schedule has been creatively re-jiggered so that kids who want to work from home have lots of opportunities to physically come into school for one-on-one help from a teacher or to book an appt with a teacher online.

I have seen no other plan like this and I've been researching all of them! Now let's see how this actually plays out this fall.

 

[beejaybee]

I am a retired high school mathematics teacher (27 years) and high school principal (16 years). I spent 43 years in Public eduction. The countries in Europe that have opened schools have had very LOW virus counts. Here is a scenario that has made me decide that I am thrilled that I am retired and that I don't have to stress over this:
Schools open. On a Monday a substitute is called into a building to sub for a teacher. That sub has had contact with 130 students (high school) and multiple staff members. That sub goes home and then goes to a different school on Tuesday and a different one each subsequent day. On Friday the sub is exhausted but chalks it up to working the full week. On Saturday that person wakes up with a 103 temperature. Goes to the ER and is tested for COVID. Test is positive. 5 different schools with many students and staff members have now been exposed. What do you do??
IMHO you keep schools on online learning until there is a major reduction in cases or a vaccine.

Post-retirement from the public schools I have worked at for-profit charter elementary and high schools. Given that those schools did not hire subs, it might be a safer bet for parents to look into sending their kids to one of those.

During my long career in a public school system, substitute teachers seemed to be a dying breed. I suspect that the majority of teachers on the sub list would think long and hard before accepting an assignment due to Covid concerns.

I currently am 7 hours weekly at a hybrid high school (on-line classes with an in-person teacher) for 16-22 year olds, who are high risk for not graduating. The management company has provided extensive guidelines for the upcoming school year which including returning to closure should Covid emerge in students or staff. When our gov. closed schools in March, students were permitted to make appointments with their subject teachers to assist with any difficulties they encountered working online. This actually worked better for most students since they did not have the drama distractions of in-person attendance.

However, many of our students are dropouts from wholly online schools. They've reported that it was too easy to put off logging in to class, help was not available when needed and, if on an IEP, it was not fully implemented.

While online learning is a sane solution for students and teachers during Covid, our priority as a country should be doing everything possible to be able to reopen our schools so there is minimal risk for contracting the illness.

 

[bbodb1]

My DD's school (small private) have already announced they will not have subs this year. (unless is it for something like long term medical like a teacher having a baby). They will deal with daily subs with admin staff if needed.

If this were a public school, I would give that about 3 weeks before some other plan is pursued. Being a private school has many advantages but even private school administration can only sub so much before their effectiveness in their actual position(s) suffer.

 

[bbodb1]

NY has released their guidelines plus an additional document clarifying some points.
Each district must submit 3 plans : full in-person learning, full virtual learning, and a hybrid version.
Social distancing must be maintained. In the event it cannot be maintained (like on a school bus), masks must be worn at all times.
Fall sports will be delayed and played in the early spring.
Individuals with medical conditions that put them at increased risk (both students and staff) will have accommodations made.
It will be interesting to see what the plans look like, and what we eventually end up doing.

I missed this in an earlier read - is NY the first state to formally push fall athletics to the spring?

If so, this is going to have some interesting side effects where fall and spring sports conflict for some athletes and especially in smaller schools.
It may be the case some smaller schools will not be able to field teams in the spring with so many sports offered concurrently.
Hopefully this is only for one year......hopefully.

 

[bbodb1]

..
During my long career in a public school system, substitute teachers seemed to be a dying breed. I suspect that the majority of teachers on the sub list would think long and hard before accepting an assignment due to Covid concerns.
..

I worked three years as a substitute teacher and one thing I learned quickly was that if almost always said yes to a sub assignment, there were usually 2 or 3 more sub needs waiting right behind that one. Although I was only on the sub list for one school district, once a a school and I made contact, it did not take long to fill up my calendar. That was several years ago, before the tax law changes pretty much stopped local school districts from maintaining their own pool of substitutes.

At present, substitute teachers are employed by a service bureau that contracts with schools for their services. In brief, this system has been a failure from every possible point of view. One of the main points of failure has been a lack of supply of substitutes - specifically, a teacher calls in sick that morning and the substitute service bureau is notified. If no substitute is available, the service bureau in essence says "Sorry, we do not have any available subs!" and the school is left scrambling.

The tax laws need to be revised so it is not so penal for school districts to employ their own substitute teachers...

..
While online learning is a sane solution for students and teachers during Covid, our priority as a country should be doing everything possible to be able to reopen our schools so there is minimal risk for contracting the illness.
..

Though I know the odds of this ever occurring are microscopically small, I would really like to see a complete revision of how we teach. Online learning (and believing it can be effective) is among the greatest lies of the 21st century. Yes, online learning can be valuable - as a means of curriculum reinforcement - but the process of learning is dulled by overuse of the online experience. Teaching to the test has become a way of life in our public schools and that has to stop. It literally kills student interest.

I'd love to take a class of kids away from the classroom each day - and away from all electronic tethers to the outside world. How many lessons could one teach from the act of planning for, planting and caring for a garden for example? Our current education system has erred much too far toward lecturing and listening and away from doing. It is sad.

 

[Cornell]

@bbodb1 Regarding HS sports - there was a discussion in my area to "flip" spring sports with fall sports this year. The idea was that football could be moved to the spring-- as that is the sport which is most struggling to pull off operating under the new restrictions.

However, the backlash was swift and didn't go anywhere. Football is "THE" sport around here. Many are limit-up with the perception that the world revolves around the football programs.

 

[Brett]

I worked three years as a substitute teacher and one thing I learned quickly was that if almost always said yes to a sub assignment, there were usually 2 or 3 more sub needs waiting right behind that one. Although I was only on the sub list for one school district, once a a school and I made contact, it did not take long to fill up my calendar. That was several years ago, before the tax law changes pretty much stopped local school districts from maintaining their own pool of substitutes.

At present, substitute teachers are employed by a service bureau that contracts with schools for their services. In brief, this system has been a failure from every possible point of view. One of the main points of failure has been a lack of supply of substitutes - specifically, a teacher calls in sick that morning and the substitute service bureau is notified. If no substitute is available, the service bureau in essence says "Sorry, we do not have any available subs!" and the school is left scrambling.

The tax laws need to be revised so it is not so penal for school districts to employ their own substitute teachers...


Though I know the odds of this ever occurring are microscopically small, I would really like to see a complete revision of how we teach. Online learning (and believing it can be effective) is among the greatest lies of the 21st century. Yes, online learning can be valuable - as a means of curriculum reinforcement - but the process of learning is dulled by overuse of the online experience. Teaching to the test has become a way of life in our public schools and that has to stop. It literally kills student interest.

I'd love to take a class of kids away from the classroom each day - and away from all electronic tethers to the outside world. How many lessons could one teach from the act of planning for, planting and caring for a garden for example? Our current education system has erred much too far toward lecturing and listening and away from doing. It is sad.

I admit I'm not up to speed on substitute teachers
I thought it was the low pay of substitute teachers causing the shortage, not how they are taxed.

 

[bbodb1]

I admit I'm not up to speed on substitute teachers
I thought it was the low pay of substitute teachers causing the shortage, not how they are taxed.

I probably won't get this exactly correct here, @Brett but changes to the tax code (2015 - I think) made it much more costly for school districts to employ substitute teachers because the district had to incur more costs with respect to substitute teachers. Essentially, the district had to provide the same benefits and incur the same costs for substitute teachers as they would for every day employees. The result of that tax change gave reason for temporary agencies to enter the field (providing substitute teachers) because school districts were not going to incur these costs.

Think of it this way - if (somehow) a school district could operate using a very small number of substitute teachers, it might then make sense for the district to bear the extra costs since they would have (more) direct control with respect to assigning the substitute teacher(s) as needed. But substitute teacher demand is rarely predictable and there are days a school district may need NO subs then followed by a day where a dozen or more was needed.

Under the tax law change, the cost to a district was much larger for each sub if the school hired the sub. By contracting with a temp service, schools could theorteically have access to as many subs as they needed without incurring the benefit costs or tax obligation(s). The down side (as you might guess) is when school demand is more than the temp service can provide.

Also, these temp services are unlikely to only provide service to one school so their assets may be available to multiple schools. The temp service is a business after all so this makes sense, but in our experience it has been common for sub requests to the temp service to go unfilled because the temp service just does not have enough substitutes. Then what does a school do?

As to your first point, substitute teachers are not paid well but prior to the tax change, most school districts were able to keep a dedicated pool of substitutes happy because they kept the substitute busy with one school district. But in all fairness, the substitute teaching requirements vary wildly from state to state. You'd be shocked at how little is required to be a substitute teacher in some states.

Edit: I believe the following is still correct though some districts do have higher standards:

How to Become a Substitute Teacher in Arkansas - Certification Map

The Arkansas Department of Education defines a substitute teacher as an individual who does not hold an Arkansas teaching license but is employed by a local school district to provide classroom teaching services on an occasional and/or temporary basis. The following documentation is required by...

certificationmap.com

 

[Brett]

I probably won't get this exactly correct here, @Brett but changes to the tax code (2015 - I think) made it much more costly for school districts to employ substitute teachers because the district had to incur more costs with respect to substitute teachers. Essentially, the district had to provide the same benefits and incur the same costs for substitute teachers as they would for every day employees. The result of that tax change gave reason for temporary agencies to enter the field (providing substitute teachers) because school districts were not going to incur these costs.

Think of it this way - if (somehow) a school district could operate using a very small number of substitute teachers, it might then make sense for the district to bear the extra costs since they would have (more) direct control with respect to assigning the substitute teacher(s) as needed. But substitute teacher demand is rarely predictable and there are days a school district may need NO subs then followed by a day where a dozen or more was needed.

Under the tax law change, the cost to a district was much larger for each sub if the school hired the sub. By contracting with a temp service, schools could theorteically have access to as many subs as they needed without incurring the benefit costs or tax obligation(s). The down side (as you might guess) is when school demand is more than the temp service can provide.

Also, these temp services are unlikely to only provide service to one school so their assets may be available to multiple schools. The temp service is a business after all so this makes sense, but in our experience it has been common for sub requests to the temp service to go unfilled because the temp service just does not have enough substitutes. Then what does a school do?

As to your first point, substitute teachers are not paid well but prior to the tax change, most school districts were able to keep a dedicated pool of substitutes happy because they kept the substitute busy with one school district. But in all fairness, the substitute teaching requirements vary wildly from state to state. You'd be shocked at how little is required to be a substitute teacher in some states.

Edit: I believe the following is still correct though some districts do have higher standards:

How to Become a Substitute Teacher in Arkansas - Certification Map

The Arkansas Department of Education defines a substitute teacher as an individual who does not hold an Arkansas teaching license but is employed by a local school district to provide classroom teaching services on an occasional and/or temporary basis. The following documentation is required by...

certificationmap.com

right, substitute teachers taxed similar to other contractors working for the government
but if substitute teachers were issued 1099's with no benefits or cash --- a different 'tax' situation

 

[Cornell]

Because of our school development (my kid being able to be in school remotely as she sees fit) AND the fact that I can work remotely, too....I am turning lemons into LEMONADE.

This exhausted, beleaguered mother has made the executive decision that we (me, the teen, and the dog) are going to pack up the car this fall. Rent a VRBO somewhere and work/school in a new location for a change of scenery. We are usually not road trip type of girls, but could be fun!

 

[elaine]

Cornell, if kids can deside each day, how does school social distance? What if 25 kids all decide to show up for a class? Will there be a reservation system? Most of our HS classes Had 25-30 kids.

 

[Cornell]

Cornell, if kids can deside each day, how does school social distance? What if 25 kids all decide to show up for a class? Will there be a reservation system? Most of our HS classes Had 25-30 kids.

Illinois rules are 50 or less are allowed per physical space

 

[jackio]

I missed this in an earlier read - is NY the first state to formally push fall athletics to the spring?

If so, this is going to have some interesting side effects where fall and spring sports conflict for some athletes and especially in smaller schools.
It may be the case some smaller schools will not be able to field teams in the spring with so many sports offered concurrently.
Hopefully this is only for one year......hopefully.

The newest guidance now states that the delay of fall sports will be until September 21st, with no championships to be played. If the season has to be cancelled due to Covid considerations, they will play on a condensed schedule as follows:

The Condensed Season plan would entail the following, with the stipulated dates being tentative
Season I (Winter Sports)
Dates: Jan. 4-Mar. 13 (Week 27-36) 10 Weeks
*Note: tentative dates Sports: basketball (girls & boys), bowling (girls & boys), gymnastics, ice hockey (girls & boys), indoor track & field (girls & boys), skiing (girls & boys), swimming (boys), *wrestling, *competitive cheer. * Because of high risk nature of wrestling and competitive cheer, sports may have to be moved to Season II or season III.

Season II (Fall Sports) Dates: Mar. 1-May 8 (Week 35-44) 10 Weeks
*Note: tentative dates Sports: football, cross country (girls & boys), field hockey, soccer (girls & boys), swimming (girls), volleyball (girls & boys), Unified bowling.
Note: Weather will have an impact upon outdoor sports in some parts of the state in March and potentially early April. Girls Tennis moved to Season III.

Season III (Spring Sports) Dates: Apr. 5-Jun. 12 (Week 40-49) 10 Weeks
*Note: tentative dates Sports: baseball, softball, golf (girls & boys), lacrosse (girls & boys), tennis (girls & boys), outdoor track & field (girls & boys), Unified basketball.

Here is the link to the document:

http://nysphsaa.org/Portals/0/COVID%2019/COVID%20Task%20Force%20Meeting%20PR%20071620%20FINAL.pdf

 

[geekette]

Because of our school development (my kid being able to be in school remotely as she sees fit) AND the fact that I can work remotely, too....I am turning lemons into LEMONADE.

This exhausted, beleaguered mother has made the executive decision that we (me, the teen, and the dog) are going to pack up the car this fall. Rent a VRBO somewhere and work/school in a new location for a change of scenery. We are usually not road trip type of girls, but could be fun!

You might find another family to swap with. Before AirBnB, there was Home Exchange. Could keep it on the cheap for both of you. I don't know how likely, but, people don't seem to want to be where they've been for months.

I think it would be a hoot to do periodic Zoom meets and see my own walls and furnishings...

I was very briefly tempted to get a job just to do the Barbados for a year thing... would be somewhat of a 'study abroad' for your daughter.

 

[bogey21]

If so, this is going to have some interesting side effects where fall and spring sports conflict for some athletes and especially in smaller schools.

I went to a large HS and was able to participate in baseball and track concurrently. But except working on relay exchanges I was able to pretty much train for track on my own. If there was a conflict between a baseball game and a track meet, the agreement was that the track meet would have precedence. When team sports overlapped like the end of the football season and the start of the basketball season we were required to stay with the sport that was finishing up...

George

 

[beejaybee]

I just checked the website for the NE Ohio district where I spent most of my career. For substitue teachers, the daily rate is $105 which equates to $15/hour but after 51 days of subbing the rate goes up to $115!!

I wasn't aware of the tax situation that led to some districts/states resorting to contracted service providers as subs. That is a sorry way IMHO of staffing a classroom when the teacher is out - who knows what caliber educator will be sent to cover? When the district maintains a sub list, the absent teacher can request a specific sub (or request not to have a specific sub). If a sub doesn't meet muster, he will be ignored by the district. Much better for the students! As for the contracted sub, she will likely be walking in cold to most of her teaching situations depending on how the agency assigns its subs.

 

[PigsDad]

I went to a large HS and was able to participate in baseball and track concurrently. But except working on relay exchanges I was able to pretty much train for track on my own. If there was a conflict between a baseball game and a track meet, the agreement was that the track meet would have precedence. When team sports overlapped like the end of the football season and the start of the basketball season we were required to stay with the sport that was finishing up...

I'll tell you that things have changes since you and I went to HS, and it is sad. Now, so many kids are pressured to really focus on a single sport. Not a single sport per season, a single sport. For example, if you want to play basketball, you are expected to play Club basketball in the summer at a minimum, then there are "optional" workouts / open court during the fall. But of course they are not truly optional -- unless you are an absolutely exceptional player, all those who make the tryout cuts for winter basketball season are taken from the pool of those who attended the fall workouts / open courts.

It is similar for other sports. And not just for traditional sports. Take the case of my daughter: her main sport is Fastpitch Softball. In middle school, she enjoyed playing softball, basketball, and was in band. When she moved to high school, softball season was in the fall but when she went to register for fall classes, she was told she had to choose between playing HS softball or band! In her school, if you were in band, you were expected to be in marching band as well, and fall was the season for the marching band competitions. Tried to talk to the director, but he would not budge. She loved playing tuba, but had to give it up to play softball. And then, of course, since she was playing softball in the fall, she couldn't attend the optional basketball workouts, so she was at a major disadvantage for basketball in the winter.

It is so sad how each coach expects kids to be completely dedicated to their sport, and only their sport these days. Of course there are exceptions, but this is the major trend unfortunately.

Kurt

 

[bogey21]

You are absolutely correct. My Son was excellent at both basketball and baseball. He had to make a choice. He chose basketball and was consumed by it year round. Traveling with his AAU team took up his entire Summer. If he had chosen baseball he would have had to play Winter baseball (we live in Texas). We often wonder what would have happened if he had chosen baseball...

George

 

[Ken555]

I haven’t been keeping current with this, or other, threads (which, fwiw, is actually quite refreshing).

The NYT has an article today about outdoor classes in the past. Has this been proposed for this year? If not, why not?

Schools Beat Earlier Plagues With Outdoor Classes. We Should, Too. (Published 2020)

A century ago, children in New York City attended classes during a pandemic. It seemed to work.

www.nytimes.com

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ilene13]

Post-retirement from the public schools I have worked at for-profit charter elementary and high schools. Given that those schools did not hire subs, it might be a safer bet for parents to look into sending their kids to one of those.

During my long career in a public school system, substitute teachers seemed to be a dying breed. I suspect that the majority of teachers on the sub list would think long and hard before accepting an assignment due to Covid concerns.

I currently am 7 hours weekly at a hybrid high school (on-line classes with an in-person teacher) for 16-22 year olds, who are high risk for not graduating. The management company has provided extensive guidelines for the upcoming school year which including returning to closure should Covid emerge in students or staff. When our gov. closed schools in March, students were permitted to make appointments with their subject teachers to assist with any difficulties they encountered working online. This actually worked better for most students since they did not have the drama distractions of in-person attendance.

However, many of our students are dropouts from wholly online schools. They've reported that it was too easy to put off logging in to class, help was not available when needed and, if on an IEP, it was not fully implemented.

While online learning is a sane solution for students and teachers during Covid, our priority as a country should be doing everything possible to be able to reopen our schools so there is minimal risk for contracting the illness.

I was in a district of 17 high schools and 68 elementary schools. There are hundreds of subs called in daily--they are not a dying breed in NYS!!! The charter schools in our area also use substitutes!

 

[HudsHut]

Hi Laura:
I read with interest your description of your school district's plan. I would love to see it, if you don't mind sharing it.
Our son will also be a senior this year. The school district has stated that they will be starting off with online learning. They were leaning toward hybrid until our Governor ordered all schools to start online. I wasn't thrilled about hybrid (2 days in school), but I'd take it over full remote.

Cheers,
Maria
javanite {at} yahoo {dot} com

 

[DeniseM]

My county has the worst C19 infection rate in CA - more than twice the rate allowed to reopen schools. Wednesday the positive test rate was 47%, and the rolling 14 day rate is about 20%. My daughter, who is a teacher, doesn't think they will be able to open all year. Our county's leadership has not been supportive of prevention methods, so I suspect she's right.

 

[mdurette]

Because of our school development (my kid being able to be in school remotely as she sees fit) AND the fact that I can work remotely, too....I am turning lemons into LEMONADE.

This exhausted, beleaguered mother has made the executive decision that we (me, the teen, and the dog) are going to pack up the car this fall. Rent a VRBO somewhere and work/school in a new location for a change of scenery. We are usually not road trip type of girls, but could be fun!

I caught this earlier this week, I can tell you there was a bit of day dreaming about the idea: Basically Barbados is offering 12 month visa for people that can work from home.

Barbados offers remote workers 12-month visas

“There's nothing like waking up and seeing the sunshine," the Barbados prime minister told NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com