Schools reopening or not

[bbodb1]

View attachment 23631

North Carolina schools to have mix of online, in-person classes

The guidelines from the Department of Health and Human Services allows in-person instruction if students, teachers and staff members wear face coverings and people remain 6 feet (2 meters) apart at school. The plan also lets families decide whether to opt-in for remote learning.

“We know schools will look a lot different this year,” Cooper said in an afternoon news conference. “They have to to be safe and effective.”

https://www.dailypress.com/news/education/vp-nw-north-carolina-schools-reopening-20200714-wroez4eh5zgb5kjlnmbeetwbc4-story.html

See, this is going to be part of the problem - what exactly does it mean to remain 6 feet apart in a school where:

• such distancing is unlikely impossible within a classroom with existing staff and student numbers - will schools hire more staff?
• what about the physical space requirements to conduct school by these guidelines - schools will likely need more space - where will they get that?
• Will transportation via buses be subject to the distance minimum? If so, where will the money and time come from in order to run more bus routes? In a good number of districts, teachers are also bus drivers.....
• How about in the cafeteria? The lunch staff is about to have a longer serving day it would seem...
• What about restrooms?

To be clear, it seems very reasonable to want these standards but it is going to take money (and now) to get this done.
Perhaps the next stimulus plan should be scrapped in favor of a school stimulus plan....

 

[Cornell]

See, this is going to be part of the problem - what exactly does it mean to remain 6 feet apart in a school where:

• such distancing is unlikely impossible within a classroom with existing staff and student numbers - will schools hire more staff?
• what about the physical space requirements to conduct school by these guidelines - schools will likely need more space - where will they get that?
• Will transportation via buses be subject to the distance minimum? If so, where will the money and time come from in order to run more bus routes? In a good number of districts, teachers are also bus drivers.....
• How about in the cafeteria? The lunch staff is about to have a longer serving day it would seem...
• What about restrooms?

To be clear, it seems very reasonable to want these standards but it is going to take money (and now) to get this done.
Perhaps the next stimulus plan should be scrapped in favor of a school stimulus plan....

@bbodb1 YUP. I've been following the roll out of each school district in IL with how they are implementing these rules. The devil is in the details. Some high schools here have 3000 kids. They can't pull off these social distancing regulations w/this many kids given their physical space. So they are doing things like setting up tents outside for lunch and kids have to sit 6' apart at lunch in assigned seats. In high school. Or some schools are having kids remain in a cohort that they have to be with all day as they progress through their school day. This way, if there is a positive test there will be ease in contact tracing. Bathroom doors need to remain open for supervision. We've come a family decision that we are opting out of this. Too much. I cannot have my 17 year old treated like a 8 year old.

 

[geekette]

I'm specifically referring to recreational. Illegal 12/31/19. Essential in 2020.

Recreational would be along with liquor and cig sales, then.

 

[queenofthehive]

View attachment 23631

North Carolina schools to have mix of online, in-person classes

The guidelines from the Department of Health and Human Services allows in-person instruction if students, teachers and staff members wear face coverings and people remain 6 feet (2 meters) apart at school. The plan also lets families decide whether to opt-in for remote learning.

“We know schools will look a lot different this year,” Cooper said in an afternoon news conference. “They have to to be safe and effective.”

https://www.dailypress.com/news/education/vp-nw-north-carolina-schools-reopening-20200714-wroez4eh5zgb5kjlnmbeetwbc4-story.html

We are in this boat. For my son’s school, the school board is having meeting tomorrow night and we will then know more details. They will then have a virtual town hall for all the parents next week for questions etc. Lots to think about...

 

[PigsDad]

It will be very hard for teachers that have kids in school. My son's teacher has three girls, one of them in elementary school, a classmate and good friend with my daughter. I understand from different common friends that she was really struggling to juggle her own kids and to teach the online classes.

I think this statement applies to all working parents, not just teachers, IMO. Trying to juggle helping their own kids with their online classes and performing their regular jobs.

Kurt

 

[wilma]

@bbodb1 YUP. I've been following the roll out of each school district in IL with how they are implementing these rules. The devil is in the details. Some high schools here have 3000 kids. They can't pull off these social distancing regulations w/this many kids given their physical space. So they are doing things like setting up tents outside for lunch and kids have to sit 6' apart at lunch in assigned seats. In high school. Or some schools are having kids remain in a cohort that they have to be with all day as they progress through their school day. This way, if there is a positive test there will be ease in contact tracing. Bathroom doors need to remain open for supervision. We've come a family decision that we are opting out of this. Too much. I cannot have my 17 year old treated like a 8 year old.

What would your plan for safely reopening high schools look like?

 

[DannyTS]

What would your plan for safely reopening high schools look like?

It is not fair to ask her this. Should she just copy/paste from the European models since they opened their schools successfully? Do you want her to come with a comprehensive plan when there are (many) people paid to do that and who have had 4 months to come up with the details?

 

[geekette]

It is not fair to ask her this. Should she just copy/paste from the European models since they opened their schools successfully? Do you want her to come with a comprehensive plan when there are (many) people paid to do that and who have had 4 months to come up with the details?

That's ridiculous. Cornell is no dumb bell and has been studying this, by her own admission! Nobody is asking for an official document. Asking someone for their thoughts is not an insult.

 

[bbodb1]

What would your plan for safely reopening high schools look like?

I'll jump in on this a little bit because it is what has not been occurring that is troublesome.
When they were closed back in March, local districts should have started the conversation about what it would take to return to school safely. This is NOT to suggest they could have come up with all of the answers and no plan would likely have survived the battlefield. But the largest issue is few districts started this discussion back in March and here we are in July with the same state of affairs. No discussion. No public opportunities to interact and get involved. Too many districts are waiting on state guidance. That same state guidance has frequently resulted in placing the responsibilty back on the shoulders of the district to make a decision.

I am NOT suggesting all districts should have known the problem was this serious back in March, but it should not have been long after that where districts should have started identifying what needed to be done in order to safely return to school in the fall.

That did not occur.

 

[bbodb1]

I should also add - far too many school districts do not want parent involvement in times like this for a variety of reasons but among them is the fact that school boards do not like outside attention.

 

[Luanne]

I should also add - far too many school districts do not want parent involvement in times like this for a variety of reasons but among them is the fact that school boards do not like outside attention.

I know in the Santa Fe School District they took a poll among teachers and staff, parents and students. Not surprisingly the students rated the highest on wanting to go back to school, parents were second, teachers and staff third. I know that is not really getting parents input on the HOW, but just finding out what they'd prefer. The state of New Mexico has come up with several scenarios from totally virtual to totally on site, with a hybrid in the middle. I believe each school district can come up with their own plan, then that needs to be submitted to the governor. Several school districts have already decided to go completely online in the Fall.

 

[DannyTS]

That's ridiculous. Cornell is no dumb bell and has been studying this, by her own admission! Nobody is asking for an official document. Asking someone for their thoughts is not an insult.

She does not need my permission to answer. But we all know that every school is different, every area is different, different ages, different everything. She can make general statements but if you want a real plan you need a lot more than that. It is not her job.

If people who are in charge do not know where to start they should inquire the schools that opened successfully already, including in N. A.

 

[wilma]

It is not fair to ask her this. Should she just copy/paste from the European models since they opened their schools successfully? Do you want her to come with a comprehensive plan when there are (many) people paid to do that and who have had 4 months to come up with the details?

Let’s let her answer the question...

 

[bogey21]

Has anyone considered just pulling their kids out of school for a year. The rationale would be (1) to avoid the virus and (2) to avoid less than desirable learning . While at home parents could get them involved with some Internet Instruction sites so all would not be lost. Next year when they return to school it would be in the grade level they missed. Yes, I know this would be radical but...

George

 

[Luanne]

Has anyone considered just pulling their kids out of school for a year. The rationale would be (1) to avoid the virus and (2) to avoid less than desirable learning . While at home parents could get them involved with some Internet Instruction sites so all would not be lost. Next year when they return to school it would be in the grade level they missed. Yes, I know this would be radical but...

George

Could they do that? Isn't there something in place requiring kids to be in school, or home schooled? I don't have young kids so as I've said before I have no pony in the race, but I'm finding the discussions interesting. So, now I'm off to find out if someone could just pull their child out for a year.

And I'm back. Looks like children are required to be in school until they are 16.

"Compulsory education laws require children to attend a public or state-accredited private school for a certain period of time. There are certain exceptions, most notably homeschooling, but virtually all states have mandates for when children must begin school and how old they must be before dropping out. Typically, children must start school by the age of six and remain enrolled until they are at least 16. "

https://education.findlaw.com/education-options/compulsory-education-laws-background.html

 

[Glynda]

The biggest "this makes no sense" for me was back in March when the SIP/SAH was in full force, recreational marijuana dispensaries were allowed to stay open in IL ...deemed "essential", yet they were ILLEGAL just 3 months prior. That immediately (and still) set the tone with my thinking of "what is really going on here?".

Were liquor and wine stores open then too? They were deemed essential here.

My biggest "this makes no sense" was when SC opened dining outside and then just three days later, opened inside dining and everything else. About ten days after that, our cases started rising and haven't stopped. Our local news last night said that hospitals in CHS are looking for places for additional needed ICU units and there is a limited quantity of the Remdesivir drug. SC had its first death of a child under age five and two cases of MIS-C in children last week. It wasn't fun reading our newspaper's front page headline this morning, "Downtown now virus hot-spot's epicenter."

 

[Cornell]

What would your plan for safely reopening high schools look like?

I'm sure my idea of "safe" is different than many here on TUG because I am not particularly worried about C19 in regards to children (that does not mean I want to any children to get sick). There is lots of evidence that children are at low risk of contracting C19, EXTREMELY low risk of dying from it, and unlikely to transmit to adults.

Given that the schools have fully re-opened in Europe w/o any dire consequences, I'm all for fully opening up. Sure , there can be some adjustments like no assemblies, encourage more kids to take off campus lunch, etc.

Schools are bending over backwards -- families that don't feel comfortable, choose the online only option.

But these hybrid plans are not good , from my perspective. They give the illusion of in person school, but the rules & regulations take away any ability for teens to have the social-emotional interaction that school should provide.

And yes, I am aware that there are teachers and adults in the schools. But there are adults working in all sorts of other professions, too , and those professions / industries have figured out how to make it work.

 

[Cornell]

Were liquor and wine stores open then too? They were deemed essential here.

My biggest "this makes no sense" was when SC opened dining outside and then just three days later, opened inside dining and everything else. About ten days after that, our cases started rising and haven't stopped. Our local news last night said that hospitals in CHS are looking for places for additional needed ICU units and there is a limited quantity of the Remdesivir drug. SC had its first death of a child under age five and two cases of MIS-C in children last week. It wasn't fun reading our newspaper's front page headline this morning, "Downtown now virus hot-spot's epicenter."

Yes, liquor stores open too.

I think there have been a lot of "head scratchers" along the way. My new favorite one is that the restaurants cannot refill water glasses from a pitcher.

 

[WinniWoman]

Yes they should.

 

[geekette]

She does not need my permission to answer. But we all know that every school is different, every area is different, different ages, different everything. She can make general statements but if you want a real plan you need a lot more than that. It is not her job.

If people who are in charge do not know where to start they should inquire the schools that opened successfully already, including in N. A.

Nobody here needs your permission for anything.

Who said was her job ???

Nobody asked her for "a real plan". Do you think someone here is expecting to send their kids to their schools with her plan??

Not sure anyone here is in charge of crafting a plan with no idea where to start, but I'm sure they will heed your advice if they do happen to be on tug desperately seeking opening tips...

 

[Cornell]

. Do you think someone here is expecting to send their kids to their schools with her plan??

Wait, what? I am not in charge of education in this country? Why wasn't I informed?
I'm sure many on TUG are relieved of that.

But seriously, all good! I enjoy the discussions here & learning everyone's opinions.

 

[geekette]

Wait, what? I am not in charge of education in this country? Why wasn't I informed?
I'm sure many on TUG are relieved of that.

But seriously, all good! I enjoy the discussions here & learning everyone's opinions.

Well, it was supposed to be a surprise. Since Danny went and said it wasn't your job (yet - I assume he is your agent, making sure you aren't on the job one minute before the paycheck starts - that's a good agent!), we might as well tell you, you are due in DC in 3 hours, and you better have that full plan done with 30 bound copies. Congratulations!!!

No shock to me that you're a good sport. I would have been very surprised if you'd posted No, I'm Not Telling My Ideas!

Seriously, people have different stakes and takes. On all matters of life. Tug has been around a long while, sorting pebbles from dirt, some liking pebbles, some liking dirt. I didn't know it would somehow be rude to ask someone what they would do in X situation, how many times has that been done in Tug lounge?? I didn't at all think it was some kind of sinister question to you, and will go ahead and believe that being asked what you think is a compliment, not an insult. That is apparently not universally true. oh boy, learned something new...

 

[cman]

New York released a data driven plan that makes sense. It's based on the infection rate.

Governor Cuomo Announces New Data-Driven Guidance for Reopening Schools

Governor Cuomo announced new, data-driven guidance for reopening schools in New York State.

www.governor.ny.gov

 

[Cornell]

@geekette you make me laugh . TY

 

[geekette]

@geekette you make me laugh . TY

You are totally welcome! I think we are about same place on the sarcasometer, as I have certainly enjoyed your wit. I know there is a disaster raging out there, but not in my house, so I brew levity and pour some as necessary.