ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity

[dioxide45]

I found out yesterday that 23% of the fixed week/units in Maui are in the trust already.

The sales person also said that 73% of all the Legacy weeks are in the trust already.

I think we would want to clarify in the trust vs. enrolled. It is possible perhaps that 73% of weeks are in the trust and also enrolled. But there certainly are not 73% of all weeks in the trust. It is probably closer to 15%. Can't speak to the fixed weeks, but I would think that the number may be a little hight. Also possible that not as many fixed week Maui owners enrolled because they use their week every year and there was no real benefit to them to enroll.

 

[TXTortoise]

Agree, the 73% would also reflect that many original owners still have their weeks and are enrolled.

With respect to fixed weeks, excluding Christmas/New Years in MOC, the Lahaina (25)/Napili (14) towers have 39 fixed units for a given week. It may vary slightly since they changed the allocation during the final sales period, from what I understand.

That's 2028 weeks, with 28% = 568 weeks.

I've not seen a Lahaina 9th floor 2BR OF on the resale market in the last two years, which makes me think that the 2BRs on that floor may be in the Trust. I don't remember off-hand when both towers were completed, but if prior to June-2010, I would think a large number of those are still owned by the original buyers and possibly enrolled.

So even if the 23% includes enrolled, it does suggest that Marriott might push for easier enrollment opportunities, maybe next year as GregT has suggested, to improve Trust inventory.

 

[taffy19]

I wrote the figures down but will double check again.

At least, the chart should give you the missing dates of the price increases of the trust points since the beginning.

There was no talk of a price increase like they usually do.

 

[Wahoo]

I've been on a bit of an MVC buying spree this month, so thought I'd add the following data points. I don't know if there is a precise formula that Marriott uses when deciding whether or not to exercise its ROFR -- it seems like it's not just $/pt, but that's probably the main factor with some additional variables thrown in such as the quality of the next reservation date tied to the week, 2019 vs 2020 as the next usage year, the number of weeks already enrolled or owned by the trust at the specific resort, Marriott's ROFR budget (I had quality weeks passing ROFR in 2017 at ~$1.50/pt, which is not happening now), etc. I'll add these to ROFR.net soon.

My ROFR experiences for March 2019:
Summit Watch Platinum
$11,250 ($2.54/point) -- Failed
$12,500 ($2.82/point) -- Passed

Grande Ocean Platinum, Oceanside
$10,500 ($2.50/point) -- Passed

Oceanwatch Platinum Plus (4th of July), Ocean View
$10,000 ($2.53/point) -- Failed
$11,000 ($2.78/point) -- Passed

Mountainside Platinum
$15,000 ($2.80/point) -- Passed


($/pt numbers included for statistical purposes only of course, these are all non-enrollable resale weeks)

 

[TXTortoise]

Good info,

I had a discussion with a major Marriott broker yesterday and he reiterated the inconsistent decisions. He noted that they seemed to not be exercising ROFR on DPs at all during the first part of the year.

He also had a weeks sale with two identical weeks, same buyer, same price, two contracts. Marriott took one, but not the other. Just strange...

 

[taffy19]

I think we would want to clarify in the trust vs. enrolled. It is possible perhaps that 73% of weeks are in the trust and also enrolled. But there certainly are not 73% of all weeks in the trust. It is probably closer to 15%. Can't speak to the fixed weeks, but I would think that the number may be a little hight. Also possible that not as many fixed week Maui owners enrolled because they use their week every year and there was no real benefit to them to enroll.

I went back to the sales office again today and spoke with a sales manager first and then to the sales person who did the update.

You are right that these figures represent trust points AND enrolled DC points together.

He did not say that or I would have written this down because it makes a big difference to me if they are close to reaching the majority vote and can decide to change the CC&Rs and reservation system completely to streamline it better to a pure points system like the Hilton or Disney systems are.

I am very relieved to find out today that they haven’t reached that point yet. I asked him today if he had the breakdown of real trust points in the trust but that figure is not shared with them. I would like to find out and wonder how.

 

[bazzap]

I went back to the sales office again today and spoke with a sales manager first and then to the sales person who did the update.

You are right that these figures represent trust points AND enrolled DC points together.

He did not say that or I would have written this down because it makes a big difference to me if they are close to reaching the majority vote and can decide to change the CC&Rs and reservation system completely to streamline it better to a pure points system like the Hilton or Disney systems are.

I am very relieved to find out today that they haven’t reached that point yet. I asked him today if he had the breakdown of real trust points in the trust but that figure is not shared with them. I would like to find out and wonder how.

The HOA should know that figure and release it if asked.

 

[JIMinNC]

I went back to the sales office again today and spoke with a sales manager first and then to the sales person who did the update.

You are right that these figures represent trust points AND enrolled DC points together.

He did not say that or I would have written this down because it makes a big difference to me if they are close to reaching the majority vote and can decide to change the CC&Rs and reservation system completely to streamline it better to a pure points system like the Hilton or Disney systems are.

I am very relieved to find out today that they haven’t reached that point yet. I asked him today if he had the breakdown of real trust points in the trust but that figure is not shared with them. I would like to find out and wonder how.

My experience is that Sales uses the term "in the Trust" to reference exactly what he re-confirmed to you - meaning both weeks owned by the Trust and those that are enrolled. We TUGgers understand the nuances of the difference between the Trust and enrolled weeks, but that is a complexity that Sales doesn't get into. If you read the comments on the various Marriott Owner Facebook pages, you will quickly learn many/most owners outside of TUG don't understand the difference either. Many people call enrolling their week - "putting my week in the Trust."

 

[taffy19]

My experience is that Sales uses the term "in the Trust" to reference exactly what he re-confirmed to you - meaning both weeks owned by the Trust and those that are enrolled. We TUGgers understand the nuances of the difference between the Trust and enrolled weeks, but that is a complexity that Sales doesn't get into. If you read the comments on the various Marriott Owner Facebook pages, you will quickly learn many/most owners outside of TUG don't understand the difference either. Many people call enrolling their week - "putting my week in the Trust."

Thank you JIMinNC and bazzap. It makes sense to keep it simple but I took it letterly and worried about it. We bought for use only and be guaranteed our week and view as long as we own it. We love our view and will never tire of it.

One more tibbit I found out was that 91% of the trust point sales are to present owners but TUGers may know this already too.

 

[Theiggy]

Tried to buy an EOY even platinum at Grande Vista (Florida club) $1,000 from a lovely Tugger. Marriott took it back. Boooo! I added it to ROFR.net


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[littlestar]

Tried to buy an EOY even platinum at Grande Vista (Florida club) $1,000 from a lovely Tugger. Marriott took it back. Boooo! I added it to ROFR.net


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry it did not make it through ROFR. EOY’s used to be a safer bet to make it through.

 

[JIMinNC]

We were just informed that we passed ROFR on an EOY Odd Island View 2BR at Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club in Kauai at $4,000. We received the decision in about 7 days. I've just entered it on ROFR.net.

We knew about dagger1's ROFR failure at $3750 from this thread, so I wanted to make sure we were somewhat above that. I considered a $3900 offer, but in the end, opted to go $100 more to provide a little more cushion and try to avoid a do-over.

Once we close on this new week, coupled with our EOY Odd 2BR OV Maui Ocean Club week and our HGVC annual ownership (both acquired resale a little over a year ago), will allow us to book three weeks in Hawaii every odd year.

 

[TXTortoise]

Jim, what was the points value of the deal, e.g, must be below $2/point?

 

[JIMinNC]

Jim, what was the points value of the deal, e.g, must be below $2/point?

Waiohai 2BR Island View is "worth" 4225 points, so halve that for EOY - 2112.5 points. So, $4,000 equates to $1.89/point for Marriott's "theoretical" valuation. Can't explain why they pass on Waiohai at $1.89/point and exercise some MOC new towers at $5/point or so. I assume inventory they want in the Trust has something to do with it, but hard to imagine that alone explains that big of a gap. The ROFR mystery continues!

 

[csalter2]

Waiohai 2BR Island View is "worth" 4225 points, so halve that for EOY - 2112.5 points. So, $4,000 equates to $1.89/point for Marriott's "theoretical" valuation. Can't explain why they pass on Waiohai at $1.89/point and exercise some MOC new towers at $5/point or so. I assume inventory they want in the Trust has something to do with it, but hard to imagine that alone explains that big of a gap. The ROFR mystery continues!

They will get you on the back end. Marriott will get you when you try to enroll the week in the Destinations Club.

Congrats!

 

[taffy19]

Waiohai 2BR Island View is "worth" 4225 points, so halve that for EOY - 2112.5 points. So, $4,000 equates to $1.89/point for Marriott's "theoretical" valuation. Can't explain why they pass on Waiohai at $1.89/point and exercise some MOC new towers at $5/point or so. I assume inventory they want in the Trust has something to do with it, but hard to imagine that alone explains that big of a gap. The ROFR mystery continues!

Congratulations, JIMinNC. Three weeks in Hawaii is really nice and especially if the flight is so long.

 

[JIMinNC]

They will get you on the back end. Marriott will get you when you try to enroll the week in the Destinations Club.

Congrats!

Just a reminder, my calculations of values per point are not relevant to me since the week is typically not able to be enrolled (except with the purchase of a bundle of DC points during a special amnesty promotion). The cost/point is solely being used as a yardstick to try to measure at what price MVC might exercise or waive ROFR. Since MVC uses ROFR as a way to get cheap weeks for the Trust to generate points to resell, their cost per point may be relevant.

 

[TXTortoise]

I know the audience is small here, but with little data on ROFR.net, has anyone heard of any recent Lahaina/Napili 2BR OF closings and whether they passed ROFR?

That last report of the MOC Lahaina Nov Week 3BR getting taken in the low 50s (~$5/pt) on the high end and a floating week failing at $29K(~$4/pt), makes me wonder how much points vs the resort/room location and possibly whether a fixed week are additive value components in their algorithm. It looks like a multi-week deal with an average value of $42K, should go...but always looking for more data. ;-)

 

[icydog]

Marriott ROFR’d my Platinum Newport Coast week that I sold too cheaply so I could complete the sale quickly. It got ROFR’d in March for $6900 plus reimbursement for maintenance fees and taxes for 2019.

 

[icydog]

I know the audience is small here, but with little data on ROFR.net, has anyone heard of any recent Lahaina/Napili 2BR OF closings and whether they passed ROFR?

That last report of the MOC Lahaina Nov Week 3BR getting taken in the low 50s (~$5/pt) on the high end and a floating week failing at $29K(~$4/pt), makes me wonder how much points vs the resort/room location and possibly whether a fixed week are additive value components in their algorithm. It looks like a multi-week deal with an average value of $42K, should go...but always looking for more data. ;-)

Are these imaginary points?

 

[csodjd]

Are these imaginary points?

Not sure what you mean but it was my $29k floating week 2BR OF Napili that was ROFR'd by Marriott. Not imaginary.

 

[TXTortoise]

Are these imaginary points?

They are the approximate $/points value based on what the week sold for against what Marriott values the week at in points.

For example; 2BR OF Lahaina non-President's winter week is valued at 7475 points. So if it got ROFR'd at $29,900, that's $4/point. Marriott seems to be taking pure points resale purchases priced at $4/point or less. But that's just a single data point. Early in the year most resale points purchases were passing ROFR according to one broker, while we had the one outlier of a 3BR Lahaina tower resale taken at $52K, which was about $5/point. Thus the ongoing unknown of what there ROFR algorithm might be, but points value seems to be a good indicator.

My focus is MOC winter weeks, so was just fishing for more ROFR reports.

 

[JIMinNC]

Are these imaginary points?

As TXTortoise said, we're using the $$/Point valuation merely as a metric to try to predict/estimate ROFR results. Obviously for the buyer, since these weeks can't be enrolled, that $$/Point valuation is meaningless as far as usage is concerned. But Marriott can convert these reacquired weeks into Points (by putting them into the Trust), so we are theorizing the $$ cost/Point value metric may play a significant role (but not the only factor) in determining what the Marriott ROFR decision might be.

 

[hangloose]

I found out yesterday that 23% of the fixed week/units in Maui are in the trust already.

For Maui fixed week/units, if Marriott picks up via ROFR...that week/unit is basically gone forever into the abyss of the Trust...never to be seen again on the resale. Scary! I wish fixed week/unit would work for me....as I would love to know my exact floor and unit vs the unknown of float weeks.

For those with fixed weeks, hold onto them if they work for you! Don’t let Marriott get them. Maybe even pass them from TUGger to TUGger to keep within the family .

 

[beachgirl79]

Marriot exercised ROFR on a gold oceanfront legacy week at oceanwatch that I was able to negotiate down to $2,000. It was a LONG drawn out process with a bad ending so I am not happy to say the least. I feel like we do all the legwork and they can scoop in with the deal.. I am not sure I have the appetite to do this again.