ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity

[mjm1]

Surprising and perplexing. I would never stay at Marriott Grand Chateau. I guess addicted gamblers need the space to spread out. It surprises me something so cheap on the resale market trades so well. Maybe anything named “Marriott” trades well. That is what Interval told me.

Grand Chateau is in a great location just off the Strip. Las Vegas is much much more than gambling. Great entertainment and dining are two great features. And there are plenty of things to do away from the strip too.

So, one doesn’t need to be an addicted gambler to have a great time here. We enjoyed our timeshare stays here so much over the years that we decided to retire here. While most of our activities are away from the strip, we do enjoy going down there for shows, dinner, and the sights. And we don’t gamble other than me wagering on some ball games some times.

Come check it out. You might enjoy it too.

Best regard.

Mike

 

[VacationForever]

We don't gamble and go to the strip to watch shows. We saw Elton John, Celine Dion, Shania Twain (my husband likes her, not me...) etc... over the past couple of years. Off the strip is Southpoint, and they have great shows too for old folks like me - Crystal Gayle and Tony Orlando are regulars.

 

[TXTortoise]

I just bought Marriott Destination Points at $2.25 per point plus $2 activation fee.

How many points?

 

[TravelTime]

I just learned that the activation fee increased on March 28th to $750 per beneficial interest. That is $3 per point. Wow!

 

[TravelTime]

How many points?

Just added 1000 points to get to Executive level. Not sure how it passed. Got lucky for once.

 

[GregT]

I just learned that the activation fee increased on March 28th to $750 per beneficial interest. That is $3 per point. Wow!

That is awful -- really sticking it to the Trust Point owner and decreasing the resale value of their ownership. What a sleazy business model -- sell them points at $13 and then change the rules so that those same points are worth less and less. Truly shameful.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

They are forcing the points to a resale value of less than zero so that they can buy back for free whenever they want to while also killing the resale market. I predicted this would happen but it is happening much faster than I thought it would.

 

[taterhed]

Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.

We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.

But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.

Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either. Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)

imo

 

[GregT]

Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.

We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.

But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.

Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either. Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)

imo

Rob,

I agree with you that we need Marriott to be successful, and I want them to be successful, but this is an conscious business decision that harms their customer base. The $2 per point activation fee was lucrative, and further increases only assure that the resale value will approach Zero. They clearly recognize that when the Trust Point owner is selling their points, they are no longer a future customer, and therefore cast them aside.

Like others, I predicted when the DClub was announced that Trust Point purchasers would be the next group to get fleeced, and that Marriott would screw them one day. We do continue to see it, and it is unfortunate.

Best,

Greg

 

[taterhed]

I certainly understand your points.
You may be entirely right; I hope not.

My thought is this: Let's see where the actual 'total' purchase price of the points go after this change settles down. If they go up consistently, then the resale buyer gets 'fleeced' as you say If the total purchase price (including junk) remains the same....then the sellers get fleeced I suppose.

Who knows?

I'm still waiting for post 2010 enrollment. Not at $25k either.

 

[JIMinNC]

That is awful -- really sticking it to the Trust Point owner and decreasing the resale value of their ownership. What a sleazy business model -- sell them points at $13 and then change the rules so that those same points are worth less and less. Truly shameful.

Agreed. With some of the recent points purchases in the $2.50-$3.50 range (the ones using the alternative structure with seller paying the transfer fees), the transfer fee is now basically half the total cost.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.

We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.

But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.

Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either. Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)

imo

For me it’s already worth less than zero with the added costs. Obviously the value is based on personal use but for the vast majority of people it isn’t worth it. 100% of the people paying full freight are getting scammed. This isn’t like the early days of selling weeks when the maintenance fees were a bargain, mrp trade in had more value than the fees, and resale could give you back all or most of your money. There is no chance of recouping much of anything after your purchase and the main reason is because it isn’t worth very much.

 

[JIMinNC]

For me it’s already worth less than zero with the added costs. Obviously the value is based on personal use but for the vast majority of people it isn’t worth it. 100% of the people paying full freight are getting scammed. This isn’t like the early days of selling weeks when the maintenance fees were a bargain, mrp trade in had more value than the fees, and resale could give you back all or most of your money. There is no chance of recouping much of anything after your purchase and the main reason is because it isn’t worth very much.

I agree the higher fees make owning more Marriott Destination Points less appealing. The conundrum is, while resale weeks still offer us an attractive, very cost effective way to access a location we want to travel to repeatedly, points are the only viable path for us to go to those places we want to visit less frequently. We dislike II trading, aren't comfortable with direct rentals from other owners (Redweek, VRBO, AirBnB, etc), and the cash rates for most MVC resorts are more than we like to pay. Points check most of the boxes for us, but the increasing acquisition cost and diminishing resale value if we would ever want to sell, makes adding to our point ownership a tough hurdle to clear. Since we already have DPs, renting points whenever we want to book something is likely the only truly cost-effective path forward, but renting comes with the inability to bank/borrow and we'll continue to be limited to the 10 month booking window for short stays. Sadly, for those of us who were not Marriott owners prior to June 2010, participating in a significant way in the DP system is increasingly hard to justify.

 

[TravelTime]

Just remember......we need the Marriott system--both legacy and points--to live and prosper.

We Tuggers are like the ramoras and other symbiotic creatures out there in the seas.
As long as our hosts thrive and prosper....we get to eat too.

But, if the fish we ride on becomes extinct.....we be SOL.

Again, I think there might be ways to make the resale points market work....it can't go to zero though, and it can't rise up to resale either. Somewhere right in the middle......(or a little less?)

imo

Exactly what I think, Taterhed. You nailed it.

 

[TravelTime]

On the bright side, maybe Marriott will exercise ROFR less often now. Maybe that's the idea. It might still be a good deal to buy points resale if the price of buying direct goes up too. Remember, we are in the hottest economy in US history right now. Everyone is increasing prices. Everyone wants raises. Unemployment is at all time low. I just read a story about the turnaround in Elkhart, Indiana in the Wall Street Journal. The title:

The Future of America’s Economy Looks a Lot Like Elkhart, Indiana
The capital of RV manufacturing, which once had the worst unemployment rate in the U.S., is now facing labor shortages and rising home prices and wages​

Marriott gets excellent ratings as one of the best employers in America. So hopefully these price increases are being put to good use. I am trying to be optimistic here. I still have hope.

 

[frank808]

Well just got a 2br willowridge into my account for $1005 all fees included with free 2018 usage.

Funny thing is i had a willowridge get exercised a couple months ago at $250 all in with no usage till 2019.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Well just got a 2br willowridge into my account for $1005 all fees included with free 2018 usage.

Funny thing is i had a willowridge get exercised a couple months ago at $250 all in with no usage till 2019.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

It wasn't that long ago that they were buying WR back for $3k. Crazy.

 

[JIMinNC]

Remember, we are in the hottest economy in US history right now. Everyone is increasing prices. Everyone wants raises. Unemployment is at all time low. I just read a story about the turnaround in Elkhart, Indiana in the Wall Street Journal. The title:

The Future of America’s Economy Looks a Lot Like Elkhart, Indiana
The capital of RV manufacturing, which once had the worst unemployment rate in the U.S., is now facing labor shortages and rising home prices and wages​

And that's the scary part...the last time the overall economy was this good was during the final days of the dot-com boom in 1999-2000. It's also reminiscent of the 2007 time frame when the housing market was going toward the moon. It's a classic late-stage economic cycle surge, which often precedes a downturn (as was the case in 2001 and 2008). With interest rates creeping higher and the potential for higher inflation, I see some potential clouds on the horizon. It's also been about 8 years since the economy emerged from the last recession, which makes 2010-2018 one of the longest periods of economic growth in history. While the recent stock market volatility has been blamed on a few Tweets, the reality is the market shrugged off those same kind of Tweets in 2017 and kept going up. Now even virtually irrelevant macro events that should have no impact on earnings, the economy, or the markets cause the market to hiccup. That says the market is now looking for any reason to go down instead of seeing everything as a reason to go up. In the big picture, that's not a good sign.

It would not surprise me if sometime in 2019 we're in a slowdown that sees timeshare prices and ROFR thresholds fall again.

 

[TravelTime]

Yes, it could go either way. No matter what, folks who manage their finances well will be fine. Unfortunately, that is not the majority of Americans or the world. These boom/bust cycles are increasing income inequality, in my opinion, because people with money during busts can bail out folks who are in distress. So we bottom dwellers (which I suspect most of the folks on TUG are) tend to benefit by buying distressed timeshares and other properties and assets.

 

[Jerrygomi]

These are a few known variables:

• The price someone thinks was submitted is not always the actual price submitted
• Unpaid fees with no usage may lead to passing at any amount, or at a minimum, a greatly reduced threshold.
• Some brokers keep unpaid fees hostage until after transfer but they may pocket these fees if ROFR is exercised.
• ROFR for some units seem to be an on or off action. When it is off units may pass at $1 but when it is on they may fail at $1,000.

Hi: Saintsfanfl: I was wondering your thoughts on ROFR at Desert Springs Villa 2. I purchased a red season unit for $2k there recently. Looking over the data, it looks like Marriott is all over the lot as to when it exercises ROFR: $2,000 failed and $5.00 passed on the same day in April 2018. In March a $3,000 offer passed and a $500 failed.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Yeah, my $2,000 failed. I think there is no hard and fast rule. If you tried $2,000 5 times, would it pass at least once? I would think it would.

 

[Jerrygomi]

Yeah, my $2,000 failed. I think there is no hard and fast rule. If you tried $2,000 5 times, would it pass at least once? I would think it would.

Steve: I don't get it. How could yours fail at $2,000 and another pass at Five Dollars the same day?

 

[Steve Fatula]

Steve: I don't get it. How could yours fail at $2,000 and another pass at Five Dollars the same day?

You'll have to ask Marriott! If you follow the threads here about ROFR, you will see they make no logical sense. Look through the various discussions, they are all over the place for the same property. I wish there was a reason to it!

 

[bazzap]

Yes, ROFR fails seem to range from $2.50 to $5, whilst plenty pass in this range.
One of life’s great imponderables.

 

[MadMike3]

For me it’s already worth less than zero with the added costs. Obviously the value is based on personal use but for the vast majority of people it isn’t worth it. 100% of the people paying full freight are getting scammed. This isn’t like the early days of selling weeks when the maintenance fees were a bargain, mrp trade in had more value than the fees, and resale could give you back all or most of your money. There is no chance of recouping much of anything after your purchase and the main reason is because it isn’t worth very much.

Agree. After listening to sales pitch at $13.96 per point, then finding points at $4 or less, we said no. We were told buying in resale will not get you to the next level(President), and will not make you a qualified internal points owner. We are legacy weeks owners with no points. This would be our first purchase of points but not our first weeks purchase on resale mkt - have both. Is this sound right?