Redweek holding all payments regardless???

[djyamyam]

long way of saying they’re gonna screw over both owners and renters.

Not the renters. Just the owners. Basically he's saying they will side with renters on every dispute.

And because they haven't got the manpower to get to any of these bookings proactively, you better try and do it on your own first if you are an owner if you want to have any chance of salvaging your underlying ownership use week/points.

 

[dlpearson]

Yes, Redweek has declared war against owners. They are siding with renters 100%, regardless of what the contract says. Even if they would take a stance of 50/50 split between renters and owners as their default MO, that would go a long way to salvage their reputation.

 

[pchung6]

This doesn't look good for Redweek. Owners should be allowed to reschedule future date booking for renters. It seems Redweek will just refund no matter what. I will be very careful using RW full service rental going forward.

 

[oneohana]

RW is a . Who are they to make a determination what is habitable? If it's open it's habitable. Is it now the owner's responsibility to provide easy access to the resort?

 

[dioxide45]

RW is a . Who are they to make a determination what is habitable? If it's open it's habitable. Is it now the owner's responsibility to provide easy access to the resort?

I think RW is likely looking at this from the point of view of how a court would likely decide. I am sure they have received some expert legal opinion on this and not just made a decision willy nilly. A judge isn't simply going to look at the contract as written. They would also look at all other factors impacting the renters ability to utilize the reservation. Since this is all very new and we probably won't see any actual court challenges to this, I doubt we will ever see a legal precedent.

 

[CPNY]

I think RW is likely looking at this from the point of view of how a court would likely decide. I am sure they have received some expert legal opinion on this and not just made a decision willy nilly. A judge isn't simply going to look at the contract as written. They would also look at all other factors impacting the renters ability to utilize the reservation. Since this is all very new and we probably won't see any actual court challenges to this, I doubt we will ever see a legal precedent.

“If the travelers are told that they must stay home to avoid causing a national health emergency then the resort cannot be considered habitable.”

For sh|t§ and giggles, does this mean in the future if someone from Canada rents a unit that is in the Bahamas they can cancel if Canada is having a national emergency?

also, renting a unit in the US while residing in the US there is no mandate that you can’t travel. I saw planes flying today. They should allow the renter and owner to come up with an alternative if there is a strict cancellation policy in place. Maybe they can agree to move the date to a week next year.

 

[pchung6]

“If the travelers are told that they must stay home to avoid causing a national health emergency then the resort cannot be considered habitable.”

For sh|t§ and giggles, does this mean in the future if someone from Canada rents a unit that is in the Bahamas they can cancel if Canada is having a national emergency?

also, renting a unit in the US while residing in the US there is no mandate that you can’t travel. I saw planes flying today. They should allow the renter and owner to come up with an alternative if there is a strict cancellation policy in place. Maybe they can agree to move the date to a week next year.

I have 2 reservations rented through RW for 6/27 - 7/4, and RW is holding my funds. I emailed and called RW today regarding the cancellation. No response and RW sucks. Can I just go ahead and cancel the reservation and refund the renters >60 days? I don't want to take the risk of the last minute cancellation from RW and take the lost of $5000.

 

[CPNY]

I have 2 reservations rented through RW for 6/27 - 7/4, and RW is holding my funds. I emailed and called RW today regarding the cancellation. No response and RW sucks. Can I just go ahead and cancel the reservation and refund the renters >60 days? I don't want to take the risk of the last minute cancellation from RW and take the lost of $5000.

If I were you I would. I would just email redweek and say “due to the letter from the CEO I am releasing the renter from the contract since the possibility for this “renter wins all” policy you have put in place may be extended further due to covid. I will allow 3 days response from you stating that the renter will keep the reservation in which case they waive any right to dispute. If not I will go ahead and release the renter from their obligation” I’m not a lawyer and don’t know if that would work lol. I may work something out with my renter on the side. I have their information. If they agree to pay me through Venmo I’ll take 600 off the rental.

 

[dioxide45]

“If the travelers are told that they must stay home to avoid causing a national health emergency then the resort cannot be considered habitable.”

For sh|t§ and giggles, does this mean in the future if someone from Canada rents a unit that is in the Bahamas they can cancel if Canada is having a national emergency?

also, renting a unit in the US while residing in the US there is no mandate that you can’t travel. I saw planes flying today. They should allow the renter and owner to come up with an alternative if there is a strict cancellation policy in place. Maybe they can agree to move the date to a week next year.

WIthout legal precedent, it is hard to say how this would be decided.

 

[CPNY]

WIthout legal precedent, it is hard to say how this would be decided.

I would think if the govt is mandating incoming visitors not to come then maybe they can call it uninhabitable. But the wording isnt clear on who’s mandating travelers to travel.

 

[pchung6]

If I were you I would. I would just email redweek and say “due to the letter from the CEO I am releasing the renter from the contract since the possibility for this “renter wins all” policy you have put in place may be extended further due to covid. I will allow 3 days response from you stating that the renter will keep the reservation in which case they waive any right to dispute. If not I will go ahead and release the renter from their obligation” I’m not a lawyer and don’t know if that would work lol. I may work something out with my renter on the side. I have their information. If they agree to pay me through Venmo I’ll take 600 off the rental.

I think that is what solution I will pursue. I still have 30 days to cancel, so I will send the letter to RW and to the renter directly, so they know the reservation will be canceled if no confirmation is received within 3 days. I will offer the renter $300 discount if they agree to move to later date via Venmo or Cash App payment, not RW anymore. I'm not going to just sit here and take the bullshit from RW.

 

[dioxide45]

I think that is what solution I will pursue. I still have 30 days to cancel, so I will send the letter to RW and to the renter directly, so they know the reservation will be canceled if no confirmation is received within 3 days. I will offer the renter $300 discount if they agree to move to later date via Venmo or Cash App payment, not RW anymore. I'm not going to just sit here and take the bullshit from RW.

If I were a renter in this day and age, I certainly wouldn't pay via a cash app. I would like the protection escrow provides.

 

[pchung6]

If I were a renter in this day and age, I certainly wouldn't pay via a cash app. I would like the protection escrow provides.

As the owner, I need protection as well since I will soon be screwed by RW if I don't act now. That's the reason I'm willing to offer $300 discount. If they don't want to take it, that's fine, I will just bank my points.

 

[sportsfan1]

The part that really gets under my skin is that I can't even cancel my June week with Redweek and negotiate with my renter separately because they will still be holding my renter's payment in escrow. Does anyone know whether RW will refund the renter 60+ day out if I cancel it now?

 

[ocdb8r]

I think RW is likely looking at this from the point of view of how a court would likely decide. I am sure they have received some expert legal opinion on this and not just made a decision willy nilly. A judge isn't simply going to look at the contract as written. They would also look at all other factors impacting the renters ability to utilize the reservation. Since this is all very new and we probably won't see any actual court challenges to this, I doubt we will ever see a legal precedent.

Dioxide, I always appreciate your views here, but I think youre' giving much too much credit to RW.

1. as you've pointed out we're dealing with an unusual unforeseen situation - no law firm is going to issue a legal opinion on how a court would interpret the contract in the current situation. At best you'd get a risk based analysis indicating the likelyhood anyone would go through the effort to litigate; once someone actually commenced litigation you might get a risk based analysis of likelyhood of success.
2. the law demands the court FIRST look at the contract exactly as written. Only if the contract doesn't speak to the situation would they be at liberty to impose their own interpretation on the parties. In this case, RW is trying to scare owners into thinking that they can rely on the requirement of the unit being "habitable" to get them out of the contract. The fail to point out two important things
   1. on habitability, the contract explicitly states: If the Unit is not habitable on the day that the Rental Period commences by reason of flood, fire, or storm, and a satisfactory substitute is not made available, the total Rent will be refunded to the Renter. Even if a court were to buy RW argument that the unit is not habitable (dubious at best), the contract clearly indicates lack of habitability can only be due to flood, fire or storm in order to justify a refund. In addition, a satisfactory substitute must also have not been made available - RW isn't even attempting to coordinate such a substitute.
   2. they also fail to mention Clause 7 in the contract which states: Owner is not responsible for any inconvenience or interruption of services due to repairs, improvements, on-site construction, reasonable resort substitutions (specific unit, bed types, etc.), or for any other reason beyond the Owner’s control. Owner should provide Renter with reasonable notice, if they are made aware of any such inconveniences. RW is trying to rely on an interruption to services at the resort to prove the unit is not habitable. However, the contract clearly already contemplates this possibility and clearly indicates the owner is not responsible.
3. Of course I understand there is a totality of circumstances with the COVID-19 situation and there are a number of other legal arguments RW could advance to try to invalidate the contract or justify a refund (some of which I've discussed in other threads). However, at the end of the day I believe if a court was to take liberties to justify inserting themselves into the contract they would not do so in such a way that apportioned 100% of the responsibility (losses) on owners. The reality of the situation in no way justifies such an approach. I don't believe any court would look at the situation in a balanced way and believe that Owners have an obligation to ensure Renters are actually able to use their reservation in any circumstance. And in fact, Clause 12 of the agreement also makes this clear: Renter's inability to complete their travel for any other reason beyond the Owner's control (including, but not limited to: illness, airline interruptions, job loss) are the sole responsibility of the Renter, and Payment is non-refundable.

Those are just my views and I accept many have other opinions. I also accept if actually litigated I could be proved very wrong...but I don't think that means we as owners should just roll-over and accept what RW has done here.

 

[ocdb8r]

The part that really gets under my skin is that I can't even cancel my June week with Redweek and negotiate with my renter separately because they will still be holding my renter's payment in escrow. Does anyone know whether RW will refund the renter 60+ day out if I cancel it now?

So, this is an interesting question. Why can't you cancel your June week? I just went through the contract several times, and I actually see very few obligations for the Owner in it. More important, I don't see anything that restricts our ability to cancel the contract. The contract doesn't even contemplate what would happen if an Owner cancels...only if a Renter does.

I've started a new thread on "next steps" we might take as owners...you can see my thoughts there.

 

[CPNY]

If I were a renter in this day and age, I certainly wouldn't pay via a cash app. I would like the protection escrow provides.

I agree. However I already have the rental agreement with redweek. Barring any other extreme event in the end of August I should be set to receive the rental. I’d be willing to take money off to keep everything the same and I get paid now. It’s just a thought to bypass redweek at this point. Or I could just bank the week and fully cancel. I’d rather not bank since I have other unused options to bank

 

[CPNY]

So, this is an interesting question. Why can't you cancel your June week? I just went through the contract several times, and I actually see very few obligations for the Owner in it. More important, I don't see anything that restricts our ability to cancel the contract. The contract doesn't even contemplate what would happen if an Owner cancels...only if a Renter does.

I've started a new thread on "next steps" we might take as owners...you can see my thoughts there.

True. My renter already inquired about canceling so I could always go back and offer them cancellation through redweek if I wanted to

 

[hurnik]

I think RW is likely looking at this from the point of view of how a court would likely decide. I am sure they have received some expert legal opinion on this and not just made a decision willy nilly. A judge isn't simply going to look at the contract as written. They would also look at all other factors impacting the renters ability to utilize the reservation. Since this is all very new and we probably won't see any actual court challenges to this, I doubt we will ever see a legal precedent.

I would disagree, but mainly because this would also open up any travel insurance policy to the same legal precedent. Although a judge could always rule however they wanted (although they're not supposed to) and it would require court action, which entails legal fees on either/both sides.
IMO, the contract is clear (just like the Travel/trip insurance policies) and I can't imagine if these could be turned over on a whim. But then again, anything is possible.

I, for one, will start looking into alternatives to Redweek for advertising. Unfortunately probably means having to resort to Craigslist and putting up with the hundreds of scam emails I'll be getting. TUG isn't really an option due to the fact that most TUGGERs know what the MF are and only want to pay that and nothing else (or sometimes even less).

 

[CPNY]

I would disagree, but mainly because this would also open up any travel insurance policy to the same legal precedent. Although a judge could always rule however they wanted (although they're not supposed to) and it would require court action, which entails legal fees on either/both sides.
IMO, the contract is clear (just like the Travel/trip insurance policies) and I can't imagine if these could be turned over on a whim. But then again, anything is possible.

I, for one, will start looking into alternatives to Redweek for advertising. Unfortunately probably means having to resort to Craigslist and putting up with the hundreds of scam emails I'll be getting. TUG isn't really an option due to the fact that most TUGGERs know what the MF are and only want to pay that and nothing else (or sometimes even less).

My resort network is a great options and one I feel is overlooked. It seems that mostly brokers use that and they have inflated prices. I had an inquiry on my listing after it was already rented with redweek. That’s life, I’ll never use RW for anything other than a listing on my own. Maybe verified to give a renter piece of mind, but payment will be handled on my own.

 

[DanCali]

I agree. However I already have the rental agreement with redweek. Barring any other extreme event in the end of August I should be set to receive the rental. I’d be willing to take money off to keep everything the same and I get paid now. It’s just a thought to bypass redweek at this point. Or I could just bank the week and fully cancel. I’d rather not bank since I have other unused options to bank

Ask anyone in the medical profession and you will probably hear this situation is going to last for a while, despite the aspirational goals some may have. The FL surgeon general today issued an alert warning all residents 65+ to stay at home. Even if the economy open up somewhat and people start to travel more, anyone who is 60+ will (or at least should) think twice before they go anywhere. And that will last for 12-18 months until there is a vaccine. If your renter is 60+ I wouldn't count on them coming in August or any time in 2020.

If you can cancel the reservation and bank the options rather than lose 100% of the rental along with usage and maintenance fees I'd strongly consider it. Be less of an ass to RedWeek than they have been... communicate with them, explain your concerns, and then do what is best for you because they clearly won't.

 

[CPNY]

Ask anyone in the medical profession and you will probably hear this situation is going to last for a while, despite the aspirational goals some may have. The FL surgeon general today issued an alert warning all residents 65+ to stay at home. Even if the economy open up somewhat and people start to travel more, anyone who is 60+ will (or at least should) think twice before they go anywhere. And that will last for 12-18 months until there is a vaccine. If your renter is 60+ I wouldn't count on them coming in August or any time in 2020.

If you can cancel the reservation and bank the options rather than lose 100% of the rental along with usage and maintenance fees I'd strongly consider it. Be less of an ass to RedWeek than they have been... communicate with them, explain your concerns, and then do what is best for you because they clearly won't.

Very true. I will reach out to the renter and see if they want to save 600 bucks by paying through PayPal. Then He can cancel through redweek. I think it’s a loss this year for the rental.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I use it because I'm lazy and don't want to deal with any details. Contract signing, payment receipt, etc. Paying $59.99 for their services works for me. I also feel RW Full service listings are usually the 1st to be booked as I believe renters feel more secure with the backing of RW handling the transaction.

Yes but the free and previous $14.99 option already has them handling the contract and transaction.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I think that is what solution I will pursue. I still have 30 days to cancel, so I will send the letter to RW and to the renter directly, so they know the reservation will be canceled if no confirmation is received within 3 days. I will offer the renter $300 discount if they agree to move to later date via Venmo or Cash App payment, not RW anymore. I'm not going to just sit here and take the bullshit from RW.

You are not going to get a reply in 3 days. You won’t get a reply at all. I sent many inquiries. Even though they took action behind the scenes I never once got a reply. We are completely on our own. You have to protect the value as best you can if possible.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I think RW is likely looking at this from the point of view of how a court would likely decide. I am sure they have received some expert legal opinion on this and not just made a decision willy nilly. A judge isn't simply going to look at the contract as written. They would also look at all other factors impacting the renters ability to utilize the reservation. Since this is all very new and we probably won't see any actual court challenges to this, I doubt we will ever see a legal precedent.

A court has to look at the contract because that’s all they have. The bottom line is simply “Is the resort open?”. All other is very clearly spelled out in the contract.

Renter's inability to complete their travel for any other reason beyond the Owner's control (including, but not limited to: illness, airline interruptions, job loss) are the sole responsibility of the Renter, and Payment is non-refundable.

Redweek is violating the terms of the contract to favor the renter because they are betting it will be less painful for them long term. Renters will come back. Some owners will stay away but many are desperate and will continue to use RW when this is over.

I think this is a wake-up call to maybe get out of renting out timeshares all together. Renters are going to be more nervous now about prepaying without protection. Everyone is feeling the pain.