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Recent Destination Club News

Take the money

Whomever has the ear of CS right now, with the best case scenario business plan, will capitalize on the best assets of the club whether it is the member group or any of the competitors circling the decomposing remains of UE like vultures. The size of the blood bath will be up to how much CS is willing to give away and how many true white knight offers are out there with long term viable solutions for everyone. The potential for a start up Club now is huge with available properties at a low cost as long as debt is managed properly and a fiscally responsible management team is in place. A complete purchase of properties from CS is not realistic as not all properties are of as much value dollar wise or usage wise.

Also where all three groups currently fit in down the road is questionable. Maybe 2 levels is more viable with at least one home of each club in every location to maximize on local people and expenses. I am from PE Legacy as a Premier member and in going forward, I feel our position and stake is at most risk as our number of members is the lowest in the club, our contribution is the smallest on both membership and dues but our cost for capital is also the lowest on the upside. I hope that everyone that wants to move forward in whatever is proposed gets a chance to participate and aren't kicked to the curb just because of our lesser percieved value.

Hopefully a core Member group has had contact with CS to show the members are interested investors but not as pieces of meat this time, but actually owning the butcher shop so WE decide who's heads get chopped when required. Strength in numbers people and thanks to everyone who is posting, reasearching and reaching out to all other members who have been abandoned and left voiceless in the old UE world!!

Capital Source does not want to run a club, they want to have solvent loans, they will write this down, sell the properties, eliminate the leases and contracts and get out. Time is running out if not already gone from Cap Source.
 
Kage: To suggest that Q may have had some nefarious plan to ensure bankruptcy of UE and Lusso is prob over-reaching a touch. All of us at DC4MS were posting UE was doomed after the SPAC deal using simple math. The SPAC deal was a total scam as they fleeced members into putting in more cash in return for equity knowing full well that outside investors would be putting in paltry amounts. In the end, both Lusso and UE went bankrupt as a result of their own problems--if Q took their time looking at them, it was incumbent on those companies to seek all available other options--which were obviously none. I do recall laughing when some UE members said last fall that UE would be buying Q...

Ignoring Desties hysterical "anything but Q" commentary, i would think UE members have a probability question similar to the one faced by Lusso members last year. As i recall, Lusso members put up 15K for a shot to get back 350K or so at some point in futures. 4% is cheap price for a call on real estate. UE members need simply to figure the value of the future consideration they may be receiving versus payment made now and decide what Q prob of bankruptcy is. 4% is a layup, 50% is prob a bad call. Recall, Q does have locked in equity investor which UE never had so there is more stability there. But resignation list is long....

I know it is long as I remain on the resignation list at Q. They remain utterly non-responsive so i've lawyered up...it's annoying waste of time and energy. They do send me the Q photo of the month, presumably to mock me....

Anyone needs objective advice on Q, feel free to PM me.
 
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Recall, Q does have locked in equity investor which UE never had so there is more stability there. But resignation list is long....

I know it is long as I remain on the resignation list at Q. They remain utterly non-responsive so i've lawyered up...it's annoying waste of time and energy. They do send me the Q photo of the month, presumably to mock me....

Anyone needs objective advice on Q, feel free to PM me.

Does anyone have the details of this mysterious "locked in" investor? Surely in a process like negotiations with UE (or whomever) someone would require some due diligence on this. Like, Cap Source isn't going to just approve some debt swap or something and take it on the word of "we have a really rich guy who pays our bills."

How long have you been on their resignation list? So when they boast some 550 or so members in 80 homes, is that inclusive of those who are waiting to get out?

Or, can you not say on here?
 
Non responsive how? The list won't clear anytime soon and you are at the end of it... I might be there soon too for reasons that have nothing to do with DC or economic crisis...

You still travel and pay dues on the resignation list...

UE was doomed from the get go, not enough cash at the T&H deal...
 
Quintess: Their Secret Investors Are.....

To ascertain the identity of their secret investors-you'll need access to only two databases. One is the SEC's Edgar database, and the other is Google.

If you pull up Club Holdings filings for their private placements, you'll see the addresses of the LLC's controlled by the "Secret Investors."

If you'll then Google those addresses-you'll know exactly who they are!

PS-If you're lucky enough to become a multimillionaire or a billionaire, invest $50 a year in PO Box so your financial affairs can actually remain private. Don't use your home address for your LLC's.:rofl:
 
Kage: To suggest that Q may have had some nefarious plan to ensure bankruptcy of UE and Lusso is prob over-reaching a touch.

the long negotiations that were ended, in Q's case abruptly. (and lusso)

the recent Q offer.

that they havent acquired oyster yet.

its just a thought, not a really carefully analyzed hypothesis.
To ascertain the identity of their secret investors-you'll need access to only two databases. One is the SEC's Edgar database, and the other is Google.

If you pull up Club Holdings filings for their private placements, you'll see the addresses of the LLC's controlled by the "Secret Investors."

If you'll then Google those addresses-you'll know exactly who they are!

PS-If you're lucky enough to become a multimillionaire or a billionaire, invest $50 a year in PO Box so your financial affairs can actually remain private. Don't use your home address for your LLC's.:rofl:
hmmm
You are right when you look at their original filings all the Premier homes except one were owned, and in the sales presentations they discussed how ownership would be oone home for every six members and that they did not plan on leasing as that model does not work. I joined in 2004
my bad - interesting re their statements on leases
 
UE's quick response >
Within hours of exposing their purchase of DC4Ms, the DC4Ms site was completely down, no longer pretending to be down temporarily for improvements (as the landing page message read for, what, 8 months?).

then we have >

September 15, 2010, 06:08 AM
just thought id post, as usual no claims re veracity. but also no coverage of UE... pretty big news... even something ridiculously short.
15 September 2010 06:41
http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/ultimate-escapes-restructuring.html
incl >
Correction: The original version of this article noted that the CFO had left Ultimate Escapes last week. We have now been informed that he is still at the company.
cause of correction? >
CFO is still at UE (or was earlier this week). I spoke with him. He is not th culprit from my experience.
 
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To ascertain the identity of their secret investors-you'll need access to only two databases. One is the SEC's Edgar database, and the other is Google.

If you pull up Club Holdings filings for their private placements, you'll see the addresses of the LLC's controlled by the "Secret Investors."

If you'll then Google those addresses-you'll know exactly who they are!

PS-If you're lucky enough to become a multimillionaire or a billionaire, invest $50 a year in PO Box so your financial affairs can actually remain private. Don't use your home address for your LLC's.:rofl:

at long last....a non-Q person has found it. of course, only a Non-Q person could post it due to NDA's.
 
Does anyone have the details of this mysterious "locked in" investor? Surely in a process like negotiations with UE (or whomever) someone would require some due diligence on this. Like, Cap Source isn't going to just approve some debt swap or something and take it on the word of "we have a really rich guy who pays our bills."

How long have you been on their resignation list? So when they boast some 550 or so members in 80 homes, is that inclusive of those who are waiting to get out?

Or, can you not say on here?

I think what was often posted was that q's resignation list was not materially different from competitors when compared on DC4MS...

My q story is a bit different. I went on list during restructure, came off as they gave us some inducements to come off. After that they changed a number of aspects of our membership agreements (holiday lottery change, reciprocal use plan changes, etc) that basically made my holiday membership useless.

Again, for UE members it's a simple question of what you might get versus what you have to put up with Q to get it. I wouldn't trust this management team any more than any other, but you are at least getting some economic value for joining vs others.
 
To ascertain the identity of their secret investors-you'll need access to only two databases. One is the SEC's Edgar database, and the other is Google.

If you pull up Club Holdings filings for their private placements, you'll see the addresses of the LLC's controlled by the "Secret Investors."

If you'll then Google those addresses-you'll know exactly who they are!

PS-If you're lucky enough to become a multimillionaire or a billionaire, invest $50 a year in PO Box so your financial affairs can actually remain private. Don't use your home address for your LLC's.:rofl:

Why don't you save us the time and post the answer if it is publicly available
 
Here is one investor in Q

http://www.stcloudcapital.com/index.htm

Club Holdings, LLC
www.quintess.com

St. Cloud invested in Club Holdings, LLC, in the form of Series B preferred stock. The funds will be used for working capital and acquisitions. Club Holdings provides hospitality services to members at a variety of destinations including: Telluride, Cabo San Lucas, Napa, New York City, Amelia Island, Hawaii, Scottsdale, Palm Springs, Jackson Hole, Kiawah Island, and Beaver Creek.

_______________________________________________________

Not likely to be the "$200 million secret investor however..."
 
Ignoring Desties hysterical "anything but Q" commentary.

EOD, I know we had our differences during the DC4MS days, but aren't we saying the same thing here?

Q's homes look superb, but the deal breaker for me is that the club demands you keep paying, even after you formally go on the resignation list. UE has never done that (even though there's a laundry list of pain there, too). You bring it up as if it's a probability question -- the shot at paying a transfer fee (which is closer to 10% of the deposits) for the chance to get 75% to 100% of one's deposit back in five years. However, the sticking point is that after five years of dues (which is roughly what deposits are anyway) folks may STILL have to keep paying the annual dues until the 4-in, 1-out process works its course. If you've been on the resignation list for some time, imagine how many years after those first five that UE members will find themselves on said queue.

That is my ONLY beef with Q that would be considered a deal breaker, and isn't it the same reason why you have had to lawyer up?
 
EOD, I know we had our differences during the DC4MS days, but aren't we saying the same thing here?

Q's homes look superb, but the deal breaker for me is that the club demands you keep paying, even after you formally go on the resignation list. UE has never done that (even though there's a laundry list of pain there, too). You bring it up as if it's a probability question -- the shot at paying a transfer fee (which is closer to 10% of the deposits) for the chance to get 75% to 100% of one's deposit back in five years. However, the sticking point is that after five years of dues (which is roughly what deposits are anyway) folks may STILL have to keep paying the annual dues until the 4-in, 1-out process works its course. If you've been on the resignation list for some time, imagine how many years after those first five that UE members will find themselves on said queue.

That is my ONLY beef with Q that would be considered a deal breaker, and isn't it the same reason why you have had to lawyer up?

It is not the same reason why i have hired a lawyer. My specifics can't be discussed here, though.

So, although I'm an unhappy member, the good news is it seems you will be joining Q! I think they'll be excited. Here's why: it is still a probability question. a factor, as you point out, could be that a UE member may not be able to perpetually afford dues. But what happens if the UE member turned Q member stops paying dues? He loses what? As far as I can see, if you don't take the Q deal and join EE you assuredly lose the UE deposit. If you take the Q deal, stop paying dues in 4 years, you forfeit the shot at getting back...the same UE deposit. The annual dues are presumably to pay for travel so either choice you travel, but only in the Q plan do you get a chance at getting back the refund. if the penalty for failing to pay dues is losing a deposit otherwise worth zero anyway, who cares?! So, CONGRATS ON JOINING Q! I have great tips for the Tuscany and Hawaii properties!

That said, if dues were too high + 10% deposit too much, you might start reaching probability levels you don't like.

If for some reason the world recovers strongly (as it does most of the time in 2nd half of a president's first term), you could easily get the deposit back. Not saying it's 90% assured, but is it less than 20%? Not sure.

Let's face it UE members have been fleeced into much worst investments. Buying equity in a de facto bankrupt company is a lot worse than buying a call option of future return of deposit. Sure you could lose, but the expected value is so much better here.
 
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Some food for thought:

1. As opposed to a member owned company or other equity plan, the Q transfer fee is going into someone else's company. I would think that would be a non-starter for a lot of people burned by putting capital infusions into someone else's company. I bet a lot of UE members will (or at least should) insist that any new deposits go into something that they own and probably control.

2. If you assume 100 on the Q resignation list currently, and say 100 UE members were on the resignation list ahead of you, wouldn't that mean you'd need 700 paying new members joining before you could see that deposit returned? Wouldn't that be more than have ever joined Q since it began? What sort of time frame do you think that we're talking about? What about time value of money? I bet if you ran the numbers and put 50K into actual assets that you owned, you may end up better without as much risk.

3. Hasn't the whole idea of we'll find money down the road to pay for liabilities we're creating now worked pretty miserably in the DC world? I know this is also how our government works, but I don't have a practical choice of putting money into it.

4. I understand the concept that if I didn't really put in a deposit (although the transfer fee might be considered a deposit), what do I have to lose. However, I assume that you're still on the hook for the dues regardless of whether you give up your right to a return of the deposit and/or transfer fee. In other words, I assume Q can still come after you for the dues. Unlike the DC world in general ;), I assume most members are better about paying their bills and don't want to owe people money or have creditors coming after them.

5. Certain clubs have been quite liberal in changing the terms of member agreements. Can a UE member feel comfortable that their Q deal will "stick?" Hasn't that come up time and time again in litigation against Q. I'm not saying those people are right as the court would need to decide that, but it has come up many times.

6. At least Q has a much deeper pocketed equity investor than UE, which is obviously a very good thing. That's why they're one of the few clubs left standing. I think the wild card is what are the conditions for continuing investments. Seems they could provide a redacted version of the agreement for a prospective member. I'd certainly want to know, because that is a CRITICAL component in future dues, stability of the club, etc. IIRC, SciFrog and EOD have noted that the equity investor pays much of the debt service on the houses for the club, which is actually the right way to do it IMO if you're going to have a non-equity club. If someone else gets the appreciation on the real estate portfolio, they should at least ante up so to speak. I definitely give Q credit for that.

7. I know that no one likes paying lawyers, but I'd recommend that UE members wisely spend some money to have their lawyer look at any prospective agreements. Having reviewed at least 5 different DC's member agreements over the years, I can vouch that there are huge differences between them. I know that they all look similar to a non-lawyer, but the devil is always in the details. You can tell a lot about how a member can (and likely will) be treated when you examine the nuances. Many clubs have had clauses that arguably allow them to change the terms of a contract in their discretion, essentially making it binding on you but not on them. I'm skeptical that a lot of lawyers would have let their clients sign some of the agreements that are out there.

Hopefully, the UE circus will be resolved soon, and members can have some peace again.
 
Q/UE-What money are they putting into this?

Carefully reading their opportunistic offer-they do not say anywhere that their investors are advancing capital to the 3 new proposed clubs. Their investors are accelerating their capital into the parent corp, Club Holdings.

How much if any capital they would be infusing into Q Elite, Q Signature, and Q Premier is unknown. I suspect that they are like an internet real estate guru, trying to do this with no money down of theirs. UE members post a "transfer fee" and that working capital will be used to secure leases and or to lease usage from Q homes.

As proposed it is a great deal for Quintess, not so good for UE members.

I will wait and see what next week brings. Still believe that we as a group are valuable to any number of prospective real estate operators.

Frame this like a piece of rental property with an appraised value of $75MM-$100MM, and $18MM in annual revenues against that-if the debt costs are materially lowered-it can work. There will be some pain-those on the resignation lists can choose to travel again, or to receive very small payouts, those with sweetheart deals will need to start paying market rates on their dues-all of us need to understand that ever getting capital back is an extremely remote possibility.

I hope that a solution that allows us to continue to travel is the one that is found.
 
2. If you assume 100 on the Q resignation list currently, and say 100 UE members were on the resignation list ahead of you, wouldn't that mean you'd need 700 paying new members joining before you could see that deposit returned?

What I read wasn't exactly clear on that front. UE folks aren't being asked to join Q, the way that Lusso members did. This is the formation of a new club by Q, so it may mean 4-in, 1-out WITHIN that particular offering. Given that the dues are higher than UE members are presently paying, I can't imagine it being much of a sell WITH a front-end deposit in the future, so it's hard to say what kind of deposit folks will be looking at, given that the redemption is based on what folks are paying in deposits 5 years from now.

So, the good news is that UE refugees probably won't be behind those on the Q resignation list and the Lusso members that will get on the list in four years. The bad news is that it's hard to see this gaining traction. UE had problems making this 3-tiered system work with 1200 members, how is Q going to manage if just 30-50 UE members take them up on this offer? Q's plans seem to based on what it was thinking several months ago -- of a complete combination with UE -- but now that it appears to have broken off, I don't see how Q can make UE Lite work given what should be a very small number of members and even fewer base of properties (unless reciprocity within Q homes is part of this).
 
So what are we assuming here, that this Q offer is in some fashion "approved" by CapSource, that they would move or realign some of the UE / PE assets in the existing loan to either other Q loans, or new loan arrangements that would divvy up the assets amongst the new Q level clubs?

As a member who never was really restricted by "boundaries" of clubs until the UR / UE thing, and then PE infusion - I don't like it.

How much paper does Q have with Cap Source?

More importantly, it looks like the one who really benefits from a Q offer would be JT and his mgmt team, whichever of them they would take. I can't imagine the "offer" went out without JTs approval in some fashion despite what the follow up email said. And its doubtful he would support or approve of any sale or merger that didn't personally benefit him, even if it meant just doing the right thing for the members and creditors. At least McGrath and co walked away and let the thing get sorted out.

Assuming the UE / CapSource relationship isn't one of love and mutual respect, is there a better relationship between Q and them that would foster something like this?
 
This is a fear I have that the members will be bought and sold like livestock to a 3rd party w/o any of us having a chance to do anything different, tag along along and pay more into someone els's pocket with no control on how and where that money goes. Hopefully CS knows there is a member driven desire to at least make an attempt to take a run at this if it even makes sense. A member run/owned club would have the membership as it's primary focus with debt repayment obviously a primary concern for a longterm viable go forward club. Can that be said about any of the other non-equity clubs out there at this time??
 
This is a fear I have that the members will be bought and sold like livestock to a 3rd party w/o any of us having a chance to do anything different, tag along along and pay more into someone els's pocket with no control on how and where that money goes. Hopefully CS knows there is a member driven desire to at least make an attempt to take a run at this if it even makes sense. A member run/owned club would have the membership as it's primary focus with debt repayment obviously a primary concern for a longterm viable go forward club. Can that be said about any of the other non-equity clubs out there at this time??

The CRO's assignment is to cut expenses to the bone to stop cash loss, and to sell the assets, which includes the member base, to the entity which will generate the highest amount of cash for UE's creditors. Pleasing members or ensuring long-term viabiliity is not his assignment, other than to the extent it increases the value of the members to an acquirer. He serves at the pleasure of CapSource.
 
The CRO's assignment is to cut expenses to the bone to stop cash loss, and to sell the assets, which includes the member base, to the entity which will generate the highest amount of cash for UE's creditors. Pleasing members or ensuring long-term viabiliity is not his assignment, other than to the extent it increases the value of the members to an acquirer. He serves at the pleasure of CapSource.

Two things based on what you stated:

1. The CRO (or firm itself) in this case appears thus far to be impotent. Obviously put in place by CapSource, presumably any fees they incur will be paid by CapSource (and ultimately us or the acquirer or the loan, in some fashion). We haven't heard from this CRO other than as a tagalong on JTs dumb emails. They don't even email us from their own email addresses so one can easily reply. So while I contend that what the role of the CRO should be is to do exactly what you stated, I would argue that they are doing anything, at least that is visible, at this point.

2. If they're going to put a value on us members, then they need to be hearing what we want, or think. JTs poll of "no" votes should have been a starting place. They can promise us to someone but they can't make us go.

I hope enough of us just say "no" to whatever dumb things they come up with until we have a chance to thoroughly examine all options, if any. And that can't happen with an absentee CRO or lack of process. More importantly, it won't happen so long as JT is at the helm with his chief mates because I don't think anyone will support anything he is involved in.
 
<snip>
Here's why: it is still a probability question. a factor, as you point out, could be that a UE member may not be able to perpetually afford dues. But what happens if the UE member turned Q member stops paying dues? He loses what? As far as I can see, if you don't take the Q deal and join EE you assuredly lose the UE deposit. If you take the Q deal, stop paying dues in 4 years, you forfeit the shot at getting back...the same UE deposit. The annual dues are presumably to pay for travel so either choice you travel, but only in the Q plan do you get a chance at getting back the refund.
<snip>

Thus, much the same deal as UE (then UR) offered the T&H members - "join now and pay dues, and a 'modest' upgrade fee if you want more days, and you will get [some of] your membership deposit back after 5-7 years because we will keep selling memberships and every third one will go to a redemption."

Can anyone explain how Q's offer differs in material substance from that...???
 
Can anyone explain how Q's offer differs in material substance from that...???

It doesn't, that's why it's sh*t and totally unsustainable. They're just hoping a large enough # of us jump for it, like we did at UE / UR, and they pull it off for a while.

It seems very few actually received it, well maybe 40-50% of the membership base? JT says it was an error, so who knows. I suspect by the end of the weekend we see something else come out....either another JT plea for cash or some revised version of Q. Has anyone heard anything about the Option #5, a bankruptcy filing yet?
 
Two things based on what you stated:

1. The CRO (or firm itself) in this case appears thus far to be impotent. Obviously put in place by CapSource, presumably any fees they incur will be paid by CapSource (and ultimately us or the acquirer or the loan, in some fashion). We haven't heard from this CRO other than as a tagalong on JTs dumb emails. They don't even email us from their own email addresses so one can easily reply. So while I contend that what the role of the CRO should be is to do exactly what you stated, I would argue that they are doing anything, at least that is visible, at this point.

2. If they're going to put a value on us members, then they need to be hearing what we want, or think. JTs poll of "no" votes should have been a starting place. They can promise us to someone but they can't make us go.

I hope enough of us just say "no" to whatever dumb things they come up with until we have a chance to thoroughly examine all options, if any. And that can't happen with an absentee CRO or lack of process. More importantly, it won't happen so long as JT is at the helm with his chief mates because I don't think anyone will support anything he is involved in.

I believe that the CRO is controlling more than you see. Probably every expenditure and every binding agreement needs to by approved by the CRO. The decision to close Ft. Collins and the layoffs to date were probably made by the CRO, as were decisions to cancel leases and cancel reservations at hotels which required payments by UE.

I suspect that JT hates the CRO and is working at cross purposes with the CRO and not communicating well with him, and possibly is withholding information and having his own discussions with potential acquirors. It's likely that JT's underlying goal is to cut his own best deal, and that he's not motivated to help the CRO, nor CapSource, nor the members; instead just looking for the deal that gives him an employment contract or debt that could be paid or stock/options/warrants that could be worth something - that is if he no longer believes he has a chance to make the existing ULEI entity worth anything, and I think the appeal to members was his last attempt at that.

I would not be at all surprised if JT was a party to the Q offer many members received, without the CROs knowledge. Perhaps JT had been offered employment by the new club, or a portion of the transfer fees generated (or both). When the CRO found out about it, he demanded that it be withdrawn. Yes the email had both names but that doesn't mean anything.

It is a fair comment that the CRO hasn't done a good job of communicating with members - maybe it is because he doesn't understand the business or isn't very hands-on. Certainly it appeared that Holly Etlin was much more visible in the T&H restructuring, and clearly placed a premium on maintaining member satisfaction - in part to collect monthly dues, I think, and because she saw value in selling a supportive membership base. We don't know why the CRO here hasn't engaged the members. Perhaps he doesn't see value in the member base in this economy. Perhaps he's been given a limit on how many hours he can spend. Perhaps he's just trying to do a quick sale. Perhaps our CRO is getting no cooperation from the UE execs.

Certainly the lack of communication from the CRO is disheartening.

As UE members, our best outcome will be if we get organized and have some leaders who can speak for us collectively, ideally leaders who are experienced in real estate and law, and that we negotiate collectively. If individual members cut deals with Q, ER, A&K, EE, etc. our value and power is reduced. If we get organized, then we can have a seat at the table and negotiate a deal, whether in cooperation with CapSource and the CRO, or separately, and get some of the value of the member base for ourselves.

However, I haven't seen any real sign of getting organized, beyond collecting email addresses, and this BB plus the one at www.ultimatemembers.org - but I haven't seen anyone step forward with a plan or inside knowledge. It seemed we were better represented in the T&H reorganization, though in retrospect that hasn't turned out so well. If there are proposals being worked on, it would be nice if there were some disclosure and transparency for the members.

But most important of all - UE members should not commit to anything individually until there is some disclosure of group actions and some kind of forum for all the members to communicate among one another.
 
It doesn't, that's why it's sh*t and totally unsustainable. They're just hoping a large enough # of us jump for it, like we did at UE / UR, and they pull it off for a while.

It seems very few actually received it, well maybe 40-50% of the membership base? JT says it was an error, so who knows. I suspect by the end of the weekend we see something else come out....either another JT plea for cash or some revised version of Q. Has anyone heard anything about the Option #5, a bankruptcy filing yet?

I agree that the Q proposal as described here is not attractive at all, doesn't create any sustainable business model, and is designed like all the other bait and switch offers we keep hearing - they make sure that we have a sunk cost, some future trips to protect, and the promise of a payment in 3-5 years so that we keep paying in the meantime.

I have heard speculation that the Q offer was emailed to those members who voted yes in JT's poll. In fact, perhaps the real goal of the poll wasn't to show anything to CapSource, but to collect the prospect list of those who were most gullible or the easiest target for an offer like the Q offer.

The Q offer clearly came with the cooperation of someone very senior in the company who had access to the membership data base. Likely JT. The disavowal was forced on him by the CRO or CapSource. Neither JT nor CapSource have member interests at heart other than to the extent they can get value out of the member base. We need to be organized.
 
I agree completely that the member base needs a reliable business plan with professionals from within helping to steer, if not ultimately negotiating a possible offer. Just because 2:1 voted against JT's offer doesn't mean that all the members are behind a member owned equity club as the devil is in the details and the total number willing to do this yet again.

I know I won't give more money to any club that is not equity based but at the same time can I realistically afford the 'Member Solution' buy-in and yearly dues, whatever that even looks like? As a Legacy PE Premier member, my financial obligation is/would be much less than either the Signature or Elite folks based upon our type of homes. Will the Premier Club still be there or will it only be Signature and Elite or some other variation of the 3 Clubs? It is all fine and good to say you won't support any of the offers out there now, but until we see what the true costs are to run our own club, and that has been discussed in other posts, how we can truthfully tell each other we have value and a way out as a member group? It has been stated there is value in the membership, and I concur, yet each of us has to evaluate what our go forward position is based upon what someone else tells us we are worth.

I feel it is getting down to the 11th hour for getting this type of info to members truly interested in going forward with an equity club as talk really is cheap, although necessary. I don't know how the US bankruptcy system works but if the assets are sold by CS to the highest bidder as they please when they please, whether the members are somehow included in a club buyout or not, the members need to be at the table at the same time. We can control our destiny with eyes wide open or catch the last train car out and pay full fare for destination unknown or we all walk away with hands in pockets upset that the big bully took OUR ball from us yet again and told us to play somewhere else because we aren't any good.
 
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