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Recent Destination Club News

Within hours of exposing their purchase of DC4Ms, the DC4Ms site was completely down, no longer pretending to be down temporarily for improvements (as the landing page message read for, what, 8 months?). I'm not surprised they are keeping close tabs of this forum now, but that was before the sh**storm over the last 7 days. So I'd guess that they spend an inordinate amount of time monitoring what is said, and maybe even by whom...:ponder:

With that in mind, I'd just like to say that I think JT is a standup, straight-dealing, selfless man with the scruples of a nun. Honest as the come. Really.:)

I agree about the nun part, however I think he is wearing the habit backwards, that is why he is reality challenged.
 
Anybody watching the UE stock? $.15/share, down another 40% today.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ULEI

Marketwatch says the market capitalization is less than a deposit probably put up by some members. That can't be right, can it? It is a little insulting that the proposal was for members to buy shares at almost $4/share given the market valuation and the fact that they've put up the bulk of the capital already between deposits, assessments, share purchases, etc.
 
Quintess Offer to UE Members

http://www.destinationclubnews.com/...s_Not_Authorize_Quintess_Offer_To_Members.php

"Dear Members:

You may have recently received an offer to join another destination club. You should be aware that this offer and communication was NOT authorized by Ultimate Escapes, and also that the Company continues active discussions with a number of interested parties regarding a potential transaction. We will keep you apprised of developments in the forthcoming days. Until that time, the Company recommends you take NO action regarding ANY offer you may receive.

In addition, the Company is actively working with our lender to provide our Members with greater clarity ASAP regarding existing member reservations, particularly those reservations previously booked for arrival over the next 30 days, and we expect to be able to update Members no later than Monday, September 20th regarding all existing reservations, including existing reservations in both owned and leased homes. We apologize for any inconvenience and we greatly appreciate your patience in this matter.

Warm regards

Jim Tousignant, President & CEO
Sheon Karol, CRO..."

"Earlier this morning, some Ultimate Escapes members received an offer from Quintess about an option to join their destination club by paying a "Transfer Fee" and annual dues. With Ultimate Escapes disavowing their association with such an offer, how Quintess came about the Ultimate Escapes member list and information is unknown, but there are some interesting details in the Quintess offer. For example, a "release of claims" document is required to be signed by members protecting Quintess from any actions or claims against Ultimate Escapes and those who received the Quintess proposal had customized plans specific to their Ultimate Escapes membership, indicating someone at Ultimate Escapes, CapitalSource, CRG Partners, or another party close to the situation was likely involved at some point. As Ultimate Escapes continues to work on other alternatives, we hope that this does not impact any of their dealings as they evaluate others offers currently on the table."

What do they mean by a "transfer fee?" What is being transferred? Is the transfer fee always 50K or does it vary depending on the type of membership? Why the release of claims? Without really knowing the details, it sounds a lot like the Lusso deal, which never made economic sense to me.
 
Amen brother, amen. Why should we use our money to help you buy us?

The "transfer fee" is what's being offered to select UE members. It has nothing to do with a potential buyout. It's just trying to pluck away members, perhaps because Q's six months of negotiations with UE have proved to be fruitless. For Q's sake, I hope it didn't sign any NDAs with regard to accessing member info during the negotiations, because if UE didn't authorize the pilfering -- and Q is using customer-specific info based on their exact existing plans for personalized offers -- it's gonna be a catfight in the courtroom.

It doesn't seem like a very serious attempt, all the same. The dues proposed are outrageous (above and beyond the transfer fee) and the 4-in, 1-out policy -- for a club that has historically forced folks on the resignation to keep paying -- is a life sentence.

I'm going to apprach the potential suitors the same way I approach picking up Scrabble tiles. . .

Please, anything but Q.
 
I'm going to get flamed for this.....

Hard to view what Q sent out today as anything other than a spoiler sort of an offer. We can't buy/steal your club, so we'll just try and upset everyone.

What an offer! Holy smokes-give us money, and if enough other folks sign up too, we'll start leasing homes. Way too difficult for them to just wave us on the club they already have, with homes that are underutilized as is, right now.

Really believe that a good workable solution has to be out there-if you look at the dues of $18MM, and consider that pre-interest expense the club was almost flat for the half (subtracting depreciation, amortization, & $1.4MM of new SGA YOY), a restructured club with new management can work.

The debt is too high. (Duhh!) If the senior creditor lowers the interest rate from 12% to 6%, the member liabilities disappear or become equity along with all of the other subordinated debt, presto-chango, we'll have a solvent entity. The folks on the resignation list can have their choice of traveling again, or of getting paid 5% on the dollar. Sorry-that's just the way it is.

Ok-flame away, now.....
 
Looks like Q is being creative without endangering their existing club. This is expected. Not sure what UE members were expecting, but seeing there is no more cash, unless you get the homes for free, money needs to come in one way or the other. Q home inventory is probably about adequate, no more underutilization FYI (unlike at Lusso time). So no cheap deal.
 
Looks like Q is being creative without endangering their existing club. This is expected. Not sure what UE members were expecting, but seeing there is no more cash, unless you get the homes for free, money needs to come in one way or the other. Q home inventory is probably about adequate, no more underutilization FYI (unlike at Lusso time). So no cheap deal.

Let's define "creative"...

If you mean sending out an offer that UE claims was not authorized (okay, that part we all knowing is BS), then that is one thing.

But there is nothing "creative" about charging over market price dues, in addition to a one time "fee" which is equivalent to about the dues. So an average member has an "in" price of about $50k, first year.

I agree that more homes are necessary, and the offer I received contemplates adding some 10 homes in my club level. They claim their "mystery" investor has agreed to the acceleration of some $20MM of the $210MM remaining "available" funds. Presumably that would go towards adding assets, which one suspect would be carved out someone from the existing Cap Source loan. Or, maybe not. But you have to imagine that CS would do something here, as they have yet to foreclose or exercise their rights under the expiration of the forbearance agreement.

Needless to say, while I don't think most members expect anything to be free anymore, I do think we have to look at the economics.

What if 500, or even 700 members internally gave $50k....huge debt reduction, if that were the place it would all go. Our confidence in senior management is gone, their ability to make good decisions is lacking and more importantly, they tell us nothing - communication sucks, at best. So, no -- nobody will give Jim T a dime and the "vote" demonstrated that.

The fallacy in the whole process is that UE is selling the company. There is no "selling" of it if we members have to pay the purchase price.

Odder, the redemption offer that Q offered makes no more sense than the one that JT offered to everyone who joined UR at the TH demise. How can anyone promise an outrageous return on a member deposit they have never received? It's like we're just passing our member bonds from one company to another - first TH, AK, then UR, then UE -- and on to Q? It's pretty evident that no one can, wants to, will, or will even be able to pay these liabilities. So quit saying you will as an inducement. It's all BS, smoke and mirrors, and totally unsustainable. We may be dumb for having done something a little crazy more than once, but I'd like to think that most are fairly sophisticated and able to do the math.

This time I think we're all just moving on....and I think we should. There is no reason members should accept ANY of the BS deals on the table, or that will come. Not initially. If we take our time and evaluate all options, yes we may lose some travel for a bit -- most already are. But, we might be able to create something better than what we are being presented with. And, we may even get the lenders involved to loosen up a little.

Maybe not...
 
You seem to forget the offer on the table is totally independent of UE probable bankruptcy, it is just a way for Q to add members with realistic price for both the club and ex UE members. As for member redemption, it is paid with the 4 in 1 out clause.

The key for UE is capsource, they are the senior debtholder. They will not accept any reduction of face value if the current homes are worth about the same as their loan. What amazes me is that the management would let reservations being canceled and let go of their employees while trying to save the company. They must have known this would happen months ago. What have they done to postpone it?
 
Let's define "creative"...


Odder, the redemption offer that Q offered makes no more sense than the one that JT offered to everyone who joined UR at the TH demise. How can anyone promise an outrageous return on a member deposit they have never received? It's like we're just passing our member bonds from one company to another - first TH, AK, then UR, then UE -- and on to Q? It's pretty evident that no one can, wants to, will, or will even be able to pay these liabilities. So quit saying you will as an inducement. It's all BS, smoke and mirrors, and totally unsustainable. We may be dumb for having done something a little crazy more than once, but I'd like to think that most are fairly sophisticated and able to do the math.

Similar to the Lusso deal, the redemption is definitely the part that I don't get economically. How do you offer a redemption on a deposit that you never got? I understand what SciFrog is saying. The redemption is supposed to come out of future deposits much like UE promised (and can't fulfill). However, assuming member sales really are that good to allow for this 4 in: 1 out for a large number of UE members, wouldn't Q be much better off financially using the deposits for the financial health of the club rather than redeeming out members who did not contribute a deposit? Seems that as a member you'd either be ticked off that people are getting deposits out of your club when they contributed none (and you did) or you view it as a smoke screen or virtual impossibility to where I'm not sure why it's being promised.
 
other clubs could be just as transparent as luxus/rocksure.

over market price dues
$1K/nt is market average, luxus/rocksure are cheap, and some are closer to $500/nt (not incl EE)
I agree that more homes are necessary, and the offer I received contemplates adding some 10 homes in my club level. They claim their "mystery" investor has agreed to the acceleration of some $20MM of the $210MM remaining "available" funds.
now that is "interesting"...

$210mm committment
paid 2008, 2009, 2010
http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-10-2008/0004790138&EDATE=
didnt a Q member say it was $21mm/yr over 10 years?


SciFrog what do you think of my statement that Q may have dragged out negotiations with lusso and UE to ensure bankrupty, so they could try to maximize benefit to them? perhaps it seems someone else might benefit more, so they put out what may be a poorly timed/structured offer now.

as someone who is only looking at industry, i cant really criticize them, when its clear that at the very least UE senior mgmt needs to go.
 
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Looks like Q doesn't think bankruptcy would bring them anything (forced liquidation?) so they are trying to get members though a high dues, low upfront scheme. We need to see all the details though.

As said before though, I am relieved Q is not giving memberships away like at lusso time.
 
<snip>
Odder, the redemption offer that Q offered makes no more sense than the one that JT offered to everyone who joined UR at the TH demise. How can anyone promise an outrageous return on a member deposit they have never received? It's like we're just passing our member bonds from one company to another - first TH, AK, then UR, then UE -- and on to Q? It's pretty evident that no one can, wants to, will, or will even be able to pay these liabilities. So quit saying you will as an inducement. It's all BS, smoke and mirrors, and totally unsustainable. We may be dumb for having done something a little crazy more than once, but I'd like to think that most are fairly sophisticated and able to do the math.
<snip>

Not to defend Q, but I think all the comments about how the redemption works in the DC industry are off-track.

Q doesn't need any funding to make a redemption promise. All they need to do is sell memberships in the future. It is the new member's money that is used to redeem departing members. Thus the clubs esentially plan that they will have lower net growth because future sales will go 33% (or 25% with Q) to the redemption process.

Now, you can certainly argue that there won't be any future sales (or that they will be way too small to support a large number of resignations - which seems to be the actual history), but the current or even future Q balance sheet has nothing to do with redemptions, so this discussion should acknowledge that fact I think.

By the way - I just received a flyer with some interesting offers from Staples, but then got a message from Office Depot saying "Staples wasn't 'authorized' to make any offer to you" so of course I won't be buying anything from Staples... :rofl:

I do so love JT's view of the world.... :clap:
 
Similar to the Lusso deal, the redemption is definitely the part that I don't get economically. How do you offer a redemption on a deposit that you never got? I understand what SciFrog is saying. The redemption is supposed to come out of future deposits much like UE promised (and can't fulfill). However, assuming member sales really are that good to allow for this 4 in: 1 out for a large number of UE members, wouldn't Q be much better off financially using the deposits for the financial health of the club rather than redeeming out members who did not contribute a deposit? Seems that as a member you'd either be ticked off that people are getting deposits out of your club when they contributed none (and you did) or you view it as a smoke screen or virtual impossibility to where I'm not sure why it's being promised.

Sure, any business would be better keeping all its revenues and having no expenses, but the "DC model" developed from golf clubs and elsewhere tried to allow members to depart by using some portion of future sales to redeem out departing members. Thus, the managers of DC businesses tend to fall back on what they already do - "I'll redeem you with someone else's money someday"........

The concept is certainly unsustainable eventually (after all possible candidates become members, how does anyone get out??), but the DC industry doesn't seem to think beyond next Tuesday in many ways.
 
I do so love JT's view of the world.... :clap:

JTs view of the world is simple....there is only ONE view, his.

As to the redemption issue, we can all agree that new sales drive it, but then what happens to the reported 100+ folks on the redemption list at Q if all the UE folks would come in? Let me guess, they would get told "sorry, they didn't come in as full members." Which as an existing member would piss me off even more.

Rumors are Q has 75-100 on redemption list. Anybody confirm that?
 
I will not confirm the size of the resignation list, however please note there aren't many penalties to be on the list, so if it ever starts to shrink significantly again, many people on the list might not resign anyway.
 
Whomever has the ear of CS right now, with the best case scenario business plan, will capitalize on the best assets of the club whether it is the member group or any of the competitors circling the decomposing remains of UE like vultures. The size of the blood bath will be up to how much CS is willing to give away and how many true white knight offers are out there with long term viable solutions for everyone. The potential for a start up Club now is huge with available properties at a low cost as long as debt is managed properly and a fiscally responsible management team is in place. A complete purchase of properties from CS is not realistic as not all properties are of as much value dollar wise or usage wise.

Also where all three groups currently fit in down the road is questionable. Maybe 2 levels is more viable with at least one home of each club in every location to maximize on local people and expenses. I am from PE Legacy as a Premier member and in going forward, I feel our position and stake is at most risk as our number of members is the lowest in the club, our contribution is the smallest on both membership and dues but our cost for capital is also the lowest on the upside. I hope that everyone that wants to move forward in whatever is proposed gets a chance to participate and aren't kicked to the curb just because of our lesser percieved value.

Hopefully a core Member group has had contact with CS to show the members are interested investors but not as pieces of meat this time, but actually owning the butcher shop so WE decide who's heads get chopped when required. Strength in numbers people and thanks to everyone who is posting, reasearching and reaching out to all other members who have been abandoned and left voiceless in the old UE world!!
 
As to the redemption issue, we can all agree that new sales drive it, but then what happens to the reported 100+ folks on the redemption list at Q if all the UE folks would come in? Let me guess, they would get told "sorry, they didn't come in as full members."

different clubs played different games with this, indeed. there were also changes between different measurements, like dollar figures, days, etc.

was lusso only one to have cap and time limit when cap reached?

Maybe 2 levels is more viable

interesting. PE added 3rd tier very late with mostly rentals right?

UE i dont remember, but it was pretty much entirely TH homes after acquisition right?
 
I am not sure when PE added the entry level Premier Club and I also don't know what houses were owned, if any, versus leased. As you can see I bought in on 'The Dream' assuming that salesmen don't lie and that customer satisfaction was the number one objective for PE. I don't know much about the TH situation or how it even came to be.
 
UE i dont remember, but it was pretty much entirely TH homes after acquisition right?

Filings show that UR bought about 60 homes from TH in the transaction. I do recall that UR did not buy everything as anticipated as they did not have the money to do so. Those purchased include the "duplicates" though, like 4 Trumps = 4 separate homes in listing, 6 Esperanzas, same thing. So 10/60 in clusters, including a couple condos in Deer Valley and other places. Most were PR (private retreats), but some were DR (distinctive retreats) level which equated to Signature or Elite at UR.

UR / UE filings show home sales in varying amounts but don't know which ones were sold after the TH closing and then supplemented with rentals or leases.
 
When I joined PE in 2006 or thereabouts, the Premiere level was the only level and the Signature level was added shortly after. Premiere was the original PE club and I believe that almost all of the PE Premiere homes were owned.
 
PE added 3rd tier very late with mostly rentals right?

The third tier was the higher club -- now Elite. It only had roughly 20 members and 6 properties (a Charleston property with a problematic zoning problem that ultimately had to be sold off, a lease with purchase option on the best property in Abaco Club, an NYC Penthouse, etc.).
 
Owned homes

When I joined PE in 2006 or thereabouts, the Premiere level was the only level and the Signature level was added shortly after. Premiere was the original PE club and I believe that almost all of the PE Premiere homes were owned.

You are right when you look at their original filings all the Premier homes except one were owned, and in the sales presentations they discussed how ownership would be oone home for every six members and that they did not plan on leasing as that model does not work. I joined in 2004
 
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