Recent Destination Club News

[TarheelTraveler]

Since DC Forums is down, I thought that I'd post a few interesting (at least for DC junkies) happenings/news cites from the DC sector in recent weeks in case anyone wants to discuss them:

Robb Report did an article about DCs entitled something along the lines of "Club Mend" discussing the survivors of the DC industry, like Ritz-Carlton, Exclusive Resorts, Abercrombie & Kent, Quintess, Ultimate Escapes, Equity Estates, etc. Can't find an online version, but Bill Scherer of DC Forums has a number of quotes in it, and the website is noted prominently. It's interesting how much more important forum type sites are becoming when they are cited in mainstream media.

Hideaways forms an alliance with Banyan Tree after doing one with Equity Estates

http://www.property-report.com/property-news-top-stories.php?id=3062&date=270110

""Investment fund destination club The Hideaways Club has forged an alliance with Banyan Tree Private Collection, Asia’s first global destination club.

The alliance takes the form of an exchange partnership, offering members of both clubs the opportunity to enjoy reciprocal usage of each other’s properties.""

A&K Residence Club

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/jan/30/live-updates-how-2010-naples-wine-festival-auction/

Clearly, this is about the charity as they could've bought a membership at that price (instead of just two weeks).

"“Not that last year was the greatest year in the world, but I think that people are feeling better,” Jay Baker said. “Last year was a tough year for everyone.”

Baker and his wife, Patty, had just placed their third winning bid, this time on a two-week vacation for three couples to any two Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club resorts, for $150,000.

“I have gotten his Valentine’s Day gift and his birthday present here today,” joked Patty Baker."

http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Articles.aspx?ArticleId=2639&ArticleType=35&PageType=News

"The DEPARTURES Magazine Luxury Marketing Achievement Award was presented to Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club and ISM."

http://www.luxist.com/2010/01/26/best-luxury-family-winter-vacation/

"Abercrombie & Kent Family Safari in Kenya, Africa
For families with a thirst for adventure, a safari trip to Africa may be the ideal cure to the winter blues. Leave the planning to Abercrombie & Kent, a luxury travel company that's been at it for half a century, now nominated for a Readers' Choice Award in the Best Luxury Family Winter Vacation category."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/travel/the-travellers-alphabet/story-e6frg8rf-1225822587764

"Zambia is the latest safari hot-spot; luxury operator Abercrombie & Kent has opened its own Sanctuary lodges and tented camps (including Sanctuary Sussi & Chuma in the Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park, with 12 treehouses built into the living canopy of giant ebony trees), thus ensuring a consistently high standard of accommodation and services. Itineraries are flexible (try canoeing on the lower Zambezi), with optional Victoria Falls extensions; Zambia's South Luangwa region is billed as the "home of the walking safari" allowing ranger-escorted guests to view the African bush from a different perspective. More: abercrombiekent.com.au."

Ultimate Escapes

UE is doing a reverse stock split and offering additional shares to raise up to $30-40M

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1402364/000114420410002137/v171255_s1.htm

New marketing officer

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ief-sales-and-marketing-officer-83538897.html

"Ultimate Escapes, Inc. (NYSE Amex: UEI and UEI-WT), one of the world's largest luxury destination clubs, announced today the appointment of Ted Curtis as chief sales and marketing officer, reporting directly to President and CEO, Jim Tousignant. Mr. Curtis will be responsible for leading the company's worldwide branding as well as overseeing the execution of Ultimate Escapes' overall sales and marketing activities, including customer acquisition and retention strategies. Mr. Curtis has more than 20 years of sales, marketing and management experience in the leisure, hospitality and resort business and served as a consultant to Ultimate Escapes since November 2009."

Ultimate Escapes settled the Sypris lawsuit (terms weren't disclosed)

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_14266470

UE receives notice from NYSE Amex

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/ma...escapes-receives-additional-notice-nyse-amex/

"Ultimate Escapes, Inc. (NYSE Amex: UEI and UEI-WT) (the "Company"), one of the world's largest luxury destination clubs, announced today that on January 20, 2010, the Company received notice from the NYSE Amex LLC (the "Exchange") indicating that the Company did not comply with Section 301 of the Exchange's Company Guide when the Company recently issued common shares to certain of its members pursuant to the Company's "redemption assurance program." Section 301 requires a listed issuer to file an application and obtain approval for the issuance of additional shares from the Exchange prior to such issuance."

http://www.bisnow.com/washington_dc_tech_news_story.php?p=6786

"Everyone knows (and he’s certainly hard to miss) ex-Bullets star and former Congressman Tom McMillen, who created Secure America Acquisition Corp in 2007 to find a homeland security company to buy. Well, the market’s changed a bit, and last night we dropped by Georgetown’s Four Seasons to tip our hat to his acquition instead of a part of Ultimate Escapes, competitor to Exclusive Resorts in the hip new “Destination Club” business category. The small-looking (but actually normal sized) guy with him is UE CEO Jim Tousignant. Jim, who started the business in '04, tells us he was on the 67th floor of the second World Trade Center building at the time the first was struck on 9/11. Fortunately, he ignored the PA system, which advised occupants of the second building to stay put. After walking down, he was exiting when it was struck by the second plane."

 

[AKTHUE]

DestinationClubForums was the only objective discussion

Since DC Forums is down, I thought that I'd post a few interesting (at least for DC junkies) happenings/news cites from the DC sector in recent weeks in case anyone wants to discuss them:

Robb Report did an article about DCs entitled something along the lines of "Club Mend" discussing the survivors of the DC industry, like Ritz-Carlton, Exclusive Resorts, Abercrombie & Kent, Quintess, Ultimate Escapes, Equity Estates, etc. Can't find an online version, but Bill Scherer of DC Forums has a number of quotes in it, and the website is noted prominently. It's interesting how much more important forum type sites are becoming when they are cited in mainstream media.

TarheelTraveler, thanks for the news.

I found DestinationClubsForum to be a far better source of information and news and the real story than what you read on Halogen etc. Plus it was good to be able to converse with fellow members. It is too bad that was shut down.

Perhaps the discussions can be recreated here. Is there any way to get the word out to the formerly registered users at DCF to come here?

 

[TarheelTraveler]

TarheelTraveler, thanks for the news.

I found DestinationClubsForum to be a far better source of information and news and the real story than what you read on Halogen etc. Plus it was good to be able to converse with fellow members. It is too bad that was shut down.

Perhaps the discussions can be recreated here. Is there any way to get the word out to the formerly registered users at DCF to come here?

Agreed, AKTHUE. Some of the industry sources really just seem like industry mouthpieces. With DCF, you got the good, the bad and the crazy. Hopefully, you'll see people migrating back here if DCF remains shut down.

I will say that the industry (with perhaps one or two exceptions) is in much better shape than it has been. At least the amounts charged to members now approximate the costs of the services, as most clubs have had to sustain themselves with few or no sales. Clearly, many clubs were dependent on debt and new sales to sustain the club, and with the survivors, they either weren't premised on this model (A&K and EE) to begin with or moved away from that model (e.g., Quintess). We'll still have some major bumps in the road, but the surviving clubs are at least set up better fundamentally.

Ultimate Escapes to me is the wildcard or renegade club. It'll be interesting to watch them. They always seem to have a bold new plan (sometimes out of necessity). They're not shooting for the middle ground so to speak, and we'll have to see where that gets them. Again, should be interesting to watch.

 

[caribbeansun]

Info on M

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Part of an email blast that came through this weekend

*******************

M Private Residences [FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]recognizes the economic challenges 2009 placed on many of our future members. [/FONT][/FONT]​

​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Until April 30, 2010 M Private Residences will open up a secondary market to allow an opportunity of purchasing an existing share below market value.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif] [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Since your equity investment is secured by the portfolio of homes, this makes being a member an even better investment in the way you travel and your[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]financial portfolio.[/FONT]
​

 

[AKTHUE]

Destination Club Stability?

I will say that the industry (with perhaps one or two exceptions) is in much better shape than it has been. At least the amounts charged to members now approximate the costs of the services, as most clubs have had to sustain themselves with few or no sales. Clearly, many clubs were dependent on debt and new sales to sustain the club, and with the survivors, they either weren't premised on this model (A&K and EE) to begin with or moved away from that model (e.g., Quintess). We'll still have some major bumps in the road, but the surviving clubs are at least set up better fundamentally.

Ultimate Escapes to me is the wildcard or renegade club. It'll be interesting to watch them. They always seem to have a bold new plan (sometimes out of necessity). They're not shooting for the middle ground so to speak, and we'll have to see where that gets them. Again, should be interesting to watch.

I'm not yet sure about Destination Club stability. If dues are going to cover the full cost of services, then a Destination Club has some significant drawbacks compared to just renting homes. When renting, you can select the dates, location, and size you want. With Destination Clubs there has usually been restriction to a week at a time, and limited availability. Sometimes you want 4 bedrooms for a big trip, but other times it is just a couple traveling. I was able to rent a holiday home this year for approximately the Ultimate Signature effective per day cost.

Something about the model of big membership fees and full per day cost may have to give. My impression has been that a big chunk of destination club operating expenses has been in sales & marketing & executive salaries. It's not sustainable to pay all these expenses and be cost-competitive with renting.

As to Ultimate Escapes, the prospectus they filed for their secondary offering is interesting reading. A good chuck of the 2009 revenue was from a special assessment, and they list assessments as an ongoing source of revenue, something that the members certainly do not exepct. They only ended up raising about $8 million from their SPAC merger with Secure America, so they really need to raise new funds from this secondary offering, or they will be in trouble in 2010. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[TarheelTraveler]

While I'm not crazy about their portfolio, M has said that their dues inflow exceeds their expenses, and consequently are not raising dues. Definitely nice to see that in the industry. A&K did not raise dues for newer members, and only raised the dues for older members on older plans, but only a few % in accordance with bylaws.

While DCs are not necessarily cheaper than renting right now, they do give you consistency and travel simplicity. I know that the house will be as promised or better. It takes minutes to book, rather than hours scouring the internet and hoping for the best when you arrive. I was just complaining to the wife how it took us three weeks to plan a trip outside of the Club, when I'd spend less than an hour with the Club, with a better end result.

I also think the desperate rental deals as of late will eventually end. We've got an upside down market right now with leases being cheaper than owning, never mind giving some sort of capital return to the owner.

UE's biggest challenge right now IMHO is how do you pay for the debt, while remaining cost competitive with competitors with no or little debt. UE's pricing seems as low or lower than the competition, yet the cost structure, just taking into account debt, has got to be significantly higher.

UE is doing the right thing by selling their strongest suit which is a larger portfolio with more residence destinations. But I'm not sure if they can generate the 250+ sales projected. And I don't think another assessment is an acceptable option. And I don't know that members will ante up for another buy one get one offer given how the first turned out. I guess that explains the recently filed public offering statement. It's interesting that they did it so quickly after going public and before the first financial results as a public company from Q4.

 

[TarheelTraveler]

This explains the need for speed on the secondary public offering.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...tion-of-planned-public-offering-83839962.html

"...As previously announced, following the closing of the Company's acquisition of Ultimate Escapes Holdings, LLC (the "merger"), the Company was notified by the Exchange that it failed to satisfy the Exchange's original listing standards. As a result of the Company's non-compliance, the Exchange advised the Company that its securities were subject to delisting unless the Company requested a hearing before a Listing Qualifications Panel of the Exchange's Committee on Securities (the "Panel"). Accordingly, the Company requested a hearing and appeared before the Panel on January 28, 2010. At the hearing, the Company conceded that it did not satisfy all applicable original listing criteria as it was required to do upon completion of the merger. Notwithstanding, the Company advised the Panel that it has filed a registration statement with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Form S-1, for a secondary public offering that the Company expects will, if completed, enable it to satisfy all applicable original listing criteria.

On February 2, 2010, the Panel issued its decision. ... In furtherance of this process, on February 4, 2010, the Exchange Staff notified the Company that the Exchange had cleared the Company to file an Original Listing Application (which the Company filed with the Exchange on February 5, 2010), thus facilitating the Company's continued listing on the Exchange, provided the Company successfully completes its planned public offering on or before February 16, 2010, and thereby demonstrates compliance with all applicable original listing criteria. Accordingly, the Company's securities will remain listed on the Exchange pending the completion of the planned public offering on or before February 16, 2010."

A&K Residence Club Luxist article by Susan Kime:

http://www.luxist.com/2010/02/09/abercrombie-and-kent-residence-club-members-choose-their-favorite/

"The shared ownership industry has made huge strides since timeshares first hit the scene in the 1970s. Besides the market's continued growth even during last year, called fittingly the annus horribilis by many, there has been a noticeable shift in quality and design aesthetics of purchased residences.. Gone are the basic ski chalets with cuckoo clocks, and plastic fern-festooned condos of the early years, and in their place are exceptional high-end residences where every element, both inside and out, is designed with painstaking detail....

Last month the club asked the 100 plus members, which of the residences and diverse vacation experiences within the homes they liked best .The results of the Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club annual member survey are in, and top honors for "Favorite Home" go to Hale Pu'uhonua, located on the Big Island of Hawaii. Located a short distance from the ocean and white sand beaches, Hale Pu'uhonua is a spacious four-bedroom island getaway located in the Mauna Lani Resort on the Kohala Coast. Part of the Champion Ridge subdivision, the residence is part of the only residential development in Hawaii designed around an 18-hole putting course. Perfect for large groups of family and friends, it has separate entrances to each suite as well as an epicurean kitchen, heated pool, outdoor shower and fully-equipped theater room. Upscale island decor, including thatched ceilings and mahogany trim throughout, sets the mood for a relaxing vacation in one of the Big Island's sunniest and most beautiful areas.

"This home feels like vacation when you walk through the doors," wrote Club member Corey Lovering. "The layout is fantastic. It affords privacy for its guests with distinct bedrooms with their own entrances/exits and provides well thought out, comfortable shared living spaces. It easily housed our two families. The home has amazing indoor/outdoor living space that spills out to the beautiful infinity pool overlooking the putting course...I could stay there, and have, over and over again...we've had tons of great times there and have memories to treasure for a lifetime."..."

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Quintess PGA Tour Club

Quintess PGA Club

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/access-golf-the-tour-club.html

"...The Tour Club members and their guests have access to some of the top golf courses as well as special, "inside-the-ropes" experiences at PGA Tour events. Some of the more notable properties include TPC Sawgrass, Ponte Vedra, FL; TPC Jasna Polana, Princeton, NJ; Sage Valley Golf Club, Graniteville, GA; and Wynn Golf Club, Las Vegas, NV. At the same time members have access to luxurious homes which are located at some of the most sought-after golf destinations.

The special experiences can include setting the pins with a Tour official on the morning of play, access to the TV control centers, attendance at the World Golf Hall of Fame induction ceremony, and even the ability to walk with the pros as an honorary observer.

"Through our strategic alliance with the PGA Tour, we are able to offer a compelling alternative to companies seeking a sharper competitive edge. In April, we are looking forward to complementing the corporate membership by introducing a family membership that offers unparalleled access to the world of golf." said John Fechter, the Tour Club President.

Membership in the Tour Club includes:
Golf Residences - Access to a growing portfolio of luxury residences (each valued at $2+ million) at some of the most sought after golf destinations in the world, including The Wynn, Las Vegas, NV; Pelican Hill, Newport Coast, CA; Sage Valley Golf Club, Graniteville, SC; Atlanta National, Atlanta, GA; and Pronghorn, Bend, OR. Additional destinations that will be added to the portfolio within the next 90 days include: TPC Sawgrass, Ponte Vedra Beach, FL; CordeValle, San Martin, CA; TPC Scottsdale, Scottsdale, AZ, and TPC Jasna Polana, Princeton, NJ.
TPC Network National Membership -Corporate membership with the PGA Tour's TPC Network includes 35 TPC facilities and affiliated courses, 22 of which are private. Unique guest sending privileges across the TPC Network are also available exclusively to members of the Tour Club. The Network includes nationally ranked private clubs such as TPC Potomac at Avenel Farm in Washington D.C.; TPC Sugarloaf in Atlanta, GA; and resort courses such as TPC Sawgrass.
Extraordinary Experiences - Unique experiences including golf outings held in conjunction with high-demand corporate entertainment events including the Kentucky Derby, the NCAA Final Four, and NASCAR races. the Tour Club has over a dozen experiences listed on its 2010 calendar.
PGA Tour Tournaments and Events - VIP access for Members and their guests to a wide variety of events across the PGA Tour, the Champions Tour, and the Nationwide Tour, including "behind the scenes" access, guided tours of the clubhouses and media centers at Championship Management events from the Tour Club staff.
Tour Academies Worldwide - Tour-level training with top instructors and proven state-of-the-art technology based on instructional techniques used successfully by top touring professionals.
Private Golf Clubs Worldwide - Exclusive access to a portfolio of nationally ranked, private golf courses through partnerships with the Tour Club and a proprietary reciprocal "Play-Away Network", which enables Members to host each other at their home courses.
The Tour Club Dedicated Golf Concierge - The Tour Club concierges are responsible for providing seamless travel and event planning services for Members and guests anywhere in the world."

Memberships
The club currently offers three membership levels for small, medium and large companies:

Small Mid Large
Residential Reservations * 14 28 56
PGA Tour Passes 25 50 100
Golf Experiences 2 4 8
Initiation Fee $200,000 $370,000 $690,000
Annual Dues $39,000 $68,000 $123,000

* Residential Reservations are the nights per year, that club members can stay at club homes.
All three membership levels also include TPC National Golf Membership (with access to over 30 courses, including 21 private courses) and umlimited professional-level instruction at any Tour Academy for the Primary Member.

Sister Club
Members of the Tour Club can exchange their nights for stays at Quintess homes on a 3 Tour Club nights for 2 Quintess nights basis. Similarly Quintess members can also exchange their nights for stays at the Tour Club homes.

Quintess members can also upgrade to membership with Tour Club golf priveleges by paying an initial fee and increased annual dues of about $10,000...."

While not cheap, sounds very cool if you're a golfer.

 

[Bourne]

Thank you for the updates.

 

[PerryM]

DC owners unite!

I don't own a DC and at this point have no intention of buying one in 2010.

However, you DC owners really need your own website and forum to have a place where owners can congregate independent of anyone but yourselves.

It costs about $8 per year for the domain name and $60/year for the hosting site. Total cost is less than $70 per year. The forum programs are free and so are blogs.

Don't rely on this website or others to keep informed among yourselves.

This is the best advice I can give to DC owners at this stage....

 

[UnhappyInCT]

As to Ultimate Escapes, the prospectus they filed for their secondary offering is interesting reading. A good chuck of the 2009 revenue was from a special assessment, and they list assessments as an ongoing source of revenue, something that the members certainly do not exepct. They only ended up raising about $8 million from their SPAC merger with Secure America, so they really need to raise new funds from this secondary offering, or they will be in trouble in 2010. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Secondary offering has been called off and UEI is now delisted. Jim Tousignant blamed it on "the difficult market conditions over the last several weeks".

Give me a break. Anyone taking a serious look at the prospectus would have been a fool to invest. They are going to lose money in 2009 even after the assessment and even if they somehow turn it around in the future, JT retains all voting control.

 

[AKTHUE]

Ultimate Escapes Canceled Secondary & Delisting

Secondary offering has been called off and UEI is now delisted. Jim Tousignant blamed it on "the difficult market conditions over the last several weeks".

Give me a break. Anyone taking a serious look at the prospectus would have been a fool to invest. They are going to lose money in 2009 even after the assessment and even if they somehow turn it around in the future, JT retains all voting control.

Actually Ultimate Escapes is now listed on the OTC bulletin board system, the "pink sheets" which is more appropriate for the low volume that it trades. I think the new symbol is ULEI.

Agreed: the reason Tousignant has given is BS. He couldn't find any suckers or structure any terms on which to attract any meaningful new investment.

I was shocked to see in the prospectus for the secondary offering how much equity and voting control Tousignant had been able to retain after the SPAC merger. The entire SPAC transaction stinks to high heaven. $72 million of the SPAC's money was spent to buy the vote, and only a few suckers hung on to the stock. The final trade yesterday was a bit above $2. And somehow Tousignant has the right to convert a dubious $10 million note into a majority of the dquity. And he got his board to grant him $3 million in restricted stock. Unbelievable.

Ultimate Escapes has no equity value. There is way too much debt and no way to service the debt.

I doubt the financial statements paint an accurate picture of how many members are "suspended" or non-paying. Ultimate is going to be boxed into a corner very quickly and the lender Capital Source will either seize the properties or force them to start selling properties to pay them back, or Jim Tousignant will be coming back to the members with another special assessment as the only course he sees.

 

[Chicagomark]

How about the Quintess Lawsuit?

Anyone else following (Tarheel Traveler) the lawsuit against Quintess? It is titled, Molu Kaukale LLC Vs Quintess/Monogram Real Estate LLC. Orange County CA, 30-2009-00326411-cu-bc-cx c

 

[TarheelTraveler]

CM - I haven't been following the Quintess suit, but I did look it up. I would post the complaint, but I don't know how to do that on this site.

Allegations are as follows:
Essentially deals with a house in Hawaii that Quintess/Monogram contracted to buy at 5.15M. Supposed to have a delayed closing in April of 08. Rent of $23K/month escalating to 27K/month. Supposed to be getting financing. Extended closing dates 6 times. Did not close. Supposedly took furniture that was in property and replaced it with "second-hand" furnishings, and haven't returned original property in house.

There is also a second lawsuit (Jerry Fuller versus Quintess) involving another house in Hawaii pending in the same court. Supposed to be leasing a house for 44K/month + utilities and services + 44K security deposit. Allege that Quintess failed to pay and now losing house to foreclosure.

There is also another new lawsuit against Ultimate Escapes from a disgruntled member who has not received his membership deposit back. This one is a little different in that it alleges RICO violations.

Before people start thinking every DC is mired in lawsuits, certain clubs have no litigation pending against them.

 

[travelguy]

There is also another new lawsuit against Ultimate Escapes from a disgruntled member who has not received his membership deposit back. This one is a little different in that it alleges RICO violations.

I'm surprised that RICO wasn't called into play before. RICO is hard to prove but is a real game changer if there is even the possibility it can be proven.

IMHO ... Feds + triple damages + expensive to defend + the criminal aspect? = NO "up" side for UE

 

[Chicagomark]

Rico, Not Sonny Crockett's Partner on Miami Vice....

Guys & Gals-Rico can only be used where in fact you have a crime. No crime, no Rico. Not refunding someones membership is a matter for a civil action, not a criminal action. The lawyer on the case seems to be a jack of all trades if you look at his website-and if you have Lexis/Nexis access not another case brought by him can be found-his parents divorce in Texas can be found, but no cases that he has brought as counsel.

http://www.ricoact.com/ricoact/index.asp

 

[TarheelTraveler]

The ramifications of a successful RICO action are very bad, but like ChicagoMark noted, it's also hard to prove. They allege the Club was a "Ponzi scheme," and they had no intent to pay back deposits. It's one thing to prove that they're not complying with the contract to give back the deposit, but another to prove that they fraudulently intended to not ever pay back the deposit. Still probably not a bad thing to throw into a complaint to increase your chances of getting your deposit back.

 

[travelguy]

CM - Agree with what you are saying (which is why I put a "?" after "the criminal aspect") but I don't believe it's a stretch to get to RICO. You could be correct that this particular attorney may not be capable of getting there.

TT - Insightful as usual. IMHO, Alleging a Ponzi scheme is not going to get them to RICO ... too hard to prove.

That said, IMO there is another avenue that a good lawyer may be able to show goes directly to RICO.

I'll decline to discuss more based on what happened over at DC4MS. (And please don't PM me about UE or DC4MS).

Disclaimer - Not a UE member (I've got no dog in this fight) and not a lawyer.

 

[AKTHUE]

What happened to DestinationClubForums

I'll decline to discuss more based on what happened over at DC4MS. (And please don't PM me about UE or DC4MS).

It's too bad you cannot tell us what happened to DestinationClubForums, which was a great resource.

It speaks volumes that you cannot talk about UE or DC4MS. It says something about the ethics of UE that they feel they need to prevent UE members from having free discussions among each other.

 

[PerryM]

Fish or cut bait...

It's too bad you cannot tell us what happened to DestinationClubForums, which was a great resource.

It speaks volumes that you cannot talk about UE or DC4MS. It says something about the ethics of UE that they feel they need to prevent UE members from having free discussions among each other.

I know nothing about what happened overt here at DC4MS but its obvious to me that lawyers are busy at work there.

Most/all the guys who cook up DCs are hustlers and can't have their names easily searched on Google with folks bashing the huckster.

Forget TUG and DC4MS and start your own forum where only DC members can get into parts of it and agree to a non-disclosure which prevents folks from blabbing about what's said and will pay dearly for doing so. The reset of the forum can be chit-chat for folks to visit.

If you guys don't, you aren't serious are you?

 

[pwrshift]

I'm at the point that no DC will ever get my money ... even the public companies are out on a limb IMO. The 'industry' is dead. Fool me once, and you won't do it twice...

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Some food for thought....

Isn't that like saying you would never buy a timeshare because there are some shoddy timeshare companies out there?

IMHO, the public DC that's out there is probably the one that people worry about the most among the major DCs.

Just curious, since you're a fan of Marriott timeshares, would you buy into the Ritz-Carlton DC?

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Quintess

This answers the question on DC4MS about whether the new La Samanna's villas were a lease or a purchase.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...rter-and-full-year-2009-results-85092437.html

"....In December, the Company [Orient-Express] entered into a deferred sale agreement with the luxury destination club Quintess, The Leading Residences of the World, which has the option to purchase four of La Samanna's free-standing villas for proceeds of $16 million in the first year, $17 million in the second year or $18 million in the third year and will make option payments of up to approximately $0.9 million on each villa...."

Susan Kime Luxist article on Quintess and improvements in the industry from a transparency standpoint:

http://www.luxist.com/2010/02/23/the-design-of-a-great-vacation-quintess-and-the-destination-clu/

"As with many great ideas, the destination club idea was not born in a vacuum. Its distant ideological cousin, the timeshare, originated in the '70's in Europe. It was a simple idea, buying space for time, but because of some developers' sales techniques, the timeshare developed a less than stellar reputation. However, the idea itself remained viable, and it evolved – from owning a 1/30th share in a small apartment, to owning shares in much more substantive residences, and in the clubs themselves,. The membership deed or the fractional share all came with significant amenities: private chefs, limo drivers, dedicated destination hosts, existing only to make dinner arrangements, acquiring the best concert tickets, creating worry-free vacations on every known dimension.

The destination club idea took hold in the early 2000s. In the beginning, were the nonequity clubs, then came the equity based ones. With the former, the member did not own anything, paid a one-time membership deposit, annual dues, and vacationed in elite destinations in $2-6M homes. With the equity-based clubs, the members owned the clubs, bought the homes and had much to say in the club management.

But there was a dark side to this idea – and it was its explosive and unexpected growth. In 2003, the sales volume was a modest $513.M. In 2006, it ballooned to $2.5B.

All went well until the industry hit a major bump in July of 2006, with Tanner & Haley, the first Destination Club, to bankrupt, followed by many others. Out of the 31 functioning destination clubs extant in 2006, there are now, in 2010, five. But these five are strong,fiscally transparent, and consumer-centric, taking a lessons-learned approach from the failed clubs. The equity-based clubs, where the members own the residences, are Equity Estates, and Abercrombie & Kent Residence Clubs. The non-equity clubs, are Exclusive Resorts, oldest and largest, Ultimate Escapes, the second largest with has multi-leveled membership plans, and, Quintess arguably, one of the smaller and most boutique-like, with many architecturally significant homes, all priced at 4M and up...."

Goes on to describe the founder's favorite Quintess homes.

 

[PerryM]

The 16% solution????

This answers the question on DC4MS about whether the new La Samanna's villas were a lease or a purchase.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...rter-and-full-year-2009-results-85092437.html

"....In December, the Company [Orient-Express] entered into a deferred sale agreement with the luxury destination club Quintess, The Leading Residences of the World, which has the option to purchase four of La Samanna's free-standing villas for proceeds of $16 million in the first year, $17 million in the second year or $18 million in the third year and will make option payments of up to approximately $0.9 million on each villa...."

Susan Kime Luxist article on Quintess and improvements in the industry from a transparency standpoint:

http://www.luxist.com/2010/02/23/the-design-of-a-great-vacation-quintess-and-the-destination-clu/

"As with many great ideas, the destination club idea was not born in a vacuum. Its distant ideological cousin, the timeshare, originated in the '70's in Europe. It was a simple idea, buying space for time, but because of some developers' sales techniques, the timeshare developed a less than stellar reputation. However, the idea itself remained viable, and it evolved – from owning a 1/30th share in a small apartment, to owning shares in much more substantive residences, and in the clubs themselves,. The membership deed or the fractional share all came with significant amenities: private chefs, limo drivers, dedicated destination hosts, existing only to make dinner arrangements, acquiring the best concert tickets, creating worry-free vacations on every known dimension.

The destination club idea took hold in the early 2000s. In the beginning, were the nonequity clubs, then came the equity based ones. With the former, the member did not own anything, paid a one-time membership deposit, annual dues, and vacationed in elite destinations in $2-6M homes. With the equity-based clubs, the members owned the clubs, bought the homes and had much to say in the club management.

But there was a dark side to this idea – and it was its explosive and unexpected growth. In 2003, the sales volume was a modest $513.M. In 2006, it ballooned to $2.5B.

All went well until the industry hit a major bump in July of 2006, with Tanner & Haley, the first Destination Club, to bankrupt, followed by many others. Out of the 31 functioning destination clubs extant in 2006, there are now, in 2010, five. But these five are strong,fiscally transparent, and consumer-centric, taking a lessons-learned approach from the failed clubs. The equity-based clubs, where the members own the residences, are Equity Estates, and Abercrombie & Kent Residence Clubs. The non-equity clubs, are Exclusive Resorts, oldest and largest, Ultimate Escapes, the second largest with has multi-leveled membership plans, and, Quintess arguably, one of the smaller and most boutique-like, with many architecturally significant homes, all priced at 4M and up...."

Goes on to describe the founder's favorite Quintess homes.

All those folks with too much "Pocket Change" got screwed big time.

Why on earth buy a DC with a track record of success is 16%????

DC's are dead but something will replace them - I'm sure there are characters setting in their basement right now cooking up real estate schemes to replace DC's.

Timeshares are hurting right now too - it's no picnic being a timeshare owner but at least you OWN 1/52 of that condo and can use it as long as the owners pay the MFs there.

Let's hope that equity based ownership is the central premise as new DC's get cooked up and other schemes replace them.

Once the members own the organization transparency is assured and the guys running the place answer to the owners.

 

[TarheelTraveler]

All those folks with too much "Pocket Change" got screwed big time.

Why on earth buy a DC with a track record of success is 16%????

DC's are dead but something will replace them - I'm sure there are characters setting in their basement right now cooking up real estate schemes to replace DC's.

Timeshares are hurting right now too - it's no picnic being a timeshare owner but at least you OWN 1/52 of that condo and can use it as long as the owners pay the MFs there.

Let's hope that equity based ownership is the central premise as new DC's get cooked up and other schemes replace them.

Once the members own the organization transparency is assured and the guys running the place answer to the owners.

I agree with a lot of your points, PerryM, but not necessarily the broad characterizations. The DC industry has had a very painful start, just like the timeshare industry had a very painful start.

While many on here have argued to the contrary (particularly a year or two ago before some of the big failures of non-equity clubs), there is a fundamental difference as you note between equity and non-equity DCs. I don't know of a single failure of an equity DC, while you can find 20 or more non-equity DCs that have failed. The difference as you note is ownership. As long as the members of the equity DC pay their fees, they continue to use the properties that they own just like with the timeshare concept.

However, I personally think the equity DC structure is far better than the typical timeshare structure in that you've got less owners per property (not 52 but 7), much more availability as a result, higher end properties, much better personalized service and more of a home like feel. Of course, this comes at a cost which at least for me is well worth it.

I also think the equity DC structure is better than most fractionals in that the bain of fractionals is always with exchanges. I just go into the reservation system and pick the destination without having to worry about exchanging, exchange fees, timing, etc.

I've said on here and DC4MS many times that I have a hard time figuring out what the benefit to the members would be of a non-equity DC format. However, there are some good equity DC choices out there like Ritz-Carlton and Abercrombie & Kent. Just like there are some good timeshare choices out there as well.