Recent Destination Club News

[Leonardo]

Lets hope this slips through the cracks...

Paragon as "divested" its rights to "Phoenix Club". Yes, the club will lauch in the near future...but I do not want to control "when". Too many...

I will still be involved in a consulting role.

My first and last post on this topic.

So the HCC homes went to Phoenix Club which was 'purchased' by:

possibly Q in order to have inventory to launch the three tier club to replace UE?

or the mysterious 'other interested party' that was/is shopping the UE deal?

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

previously >

1. Phoenix has rights to the "other properties" with an agreement worked out on some of the "Sheldon Good" properties wherever possible.
2. The new club brings together all the three groups mentioned in the previous post.

 

[AKTHUE]

Bloomberg article on Ultimate Escapes

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-a-lifetime-club-says-it-s-near-collapse.html

Nothing really new in the article.

 

[ClubsRDead]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-a-lifetime-club-says-it-s-near-collapse.html

Nothing really new in the article.

Nope...just JT blaming his (our) demise on the economic woes of the economy, housing market, etc. - nothing to do with his poor fiscal management and lack of accountability, bad ideas.

 

[travelguy]

If we see a filing this week I think we can start seeing some perspective in this process and hopefully some legit options.

The problem is that any type of BR filing will have the effect of freezing the club and it's assets unless the creditors can agree to keep the club operating (which they won't). Members don't understand that the BR process takes years before anything is even agreed to and will be even longer based on the complexity of the PE/UR/UE/JT/CP/FU M&A. As evidenced by the fact that Bourne is just now posting about the Phoenix Club rising from the ashes of HCC that are so cold that the members singed membership deposits have been scattered to the remote corners of the world by the winds of time (as has any potential value of that group of former dues-paying members).

Member apathy and disinterest is the real problem when DCs end up in this situation. Members can't decide if they should trust management (again), so they don't. Members don't want to throw good money after bad, so they don't. Members don't want to be fools again and risk losing another DC deposit, so they don't. Members don't want to relive the uncertainty of not knowing if their travel plans will be cancelled last minute, so they don't. Members don't know if making another DC dues investment will crash and burn, so they don't.

After their initial shock, pain and anger … members simply end-up wanting to forget the painful experience of the failed DC and walk away beaten down and disinterested in beating their heads against the walk anymore.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The old forum that was thmembers.com then uemembers.com is not ultimatemembers.org, I think - it's back open but doesn't appear to be getting a lot of traffic. Some funny stuff though....not that this situation is laughable.

The www.ultimatemembers.org web site is the same forum (renamed and with old posts re T&H and the UR assessment removed) as the others, so if you ever registered in the prior incarnations, you have access.

Maybe you meant to say "is now" rather than "is not"....????

Over there some folks are trying to plan a meet-up in NYC re this mess...might be worth checking it out.

 

[DCworker]

UE Files For Bankruptcy Finally

As a former employee they just let go in Colorado they are finally getting what they deserve, great job Rich K running it into the ground...


Ultimate Escapes Luxury Vacation Club Files for Bankruptcy Protection

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...ion-club-files-for-bankruptcy-protection.html

 

[Aladdin69]

As a former employee they just let go in Colorado they are finally getting what they deserve, great job Rich K running it into the ground...


Ultimate Escapes Luxury Vacation Club Files for Bankruptcy Protection

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...ion-club-files-for-bankruptcy-protection.html

Unfortunately....they are NOT getting what they deserve.....They deserve some time in prison, and forfeiture of their assests!! We, the members, are getting what we don't deserve....a financial haircut, and months , if not years of misery!! As a former employee, I'm surprised that you didn't consider us??
I'm sure if we all put our heads together...we could collectively come up with some issues that might make Jimmy T, and fellow cohort, Rich K...culpable of something that might get them thrown in jail!!
Most of us know about the "sweetheart deals", they cooked up with friends and fellow investors etc... the favorable leases for their own personal properties, or those of their friends etc... cash back at closings for overpayment on properties... on n on!! Let's put our heads together, and see if we can't get this group put in a new "long term DC"....where they all belong!!!

 

[Desties]

Well, the list is out. Some leases/properties are immediately terminated, others MAY honor upcoming reservations. All of the seasonal/annual leases that were going to be brought on next month, naturally, are toast.

End result is that 70 properties remain available for new bookings -- but only for stays through October 19 under DIP financing -- as CapSource/UE go through the bankruptcy process to smoke out a suitor. If anyone wants to work the cruel availability math of 1200 members into 70 properties, you're a braver soul than I.

 

[AKTHUE]

Well, the list is out. Some leases/properties are immediately terminated, others MAY honor upcoming reservations. All of the seasonal/annual leases that were going to be brought on next month, naturally, are toast.

End result is that 70 properties remain available for new bookings as CapSource/UE go through the bankruptcy process to smoke out a suitor. If anyone wants to work the cruel availability math of 1200 members into 70 properties, you're a braver soul than I.

As I read the letter, only bookings through Oct 19. After Oct 19 nothing unless someone buys the club and funds it.

 

[Desties]

As I read the letter, only bookings through Oct 19. After Oct 19 nothing unless someone buys the club and funds it.

Yep, I guess I was editing that as you were responding to it. You're right. Those properties are only available through October 19 -- though one would assume that someone acquiring the club would be getting the 1200 members and those 70 properties (though, as noted, they can be sold off individually).

I love the part about escape planners working diligently, because I have yet to get a response to a tentative reservation I placed LAST WEEK.

 

[Kagehitokiri2]

http://www.sherpareport.com/destination-clubs/ultimate-escapes-bankruptcy-0910.html

The overall filing listed 85 companies which are going through this process. There are so many companies because many of the clubs individual homes are held in their own separate club owned companies. The filing showed estimated assets of $188,676,000 and estimated liabilities of $222,010,000.

As we reported last week, the largest secured creditor is Capital Source who is owed in the region of $90m.

 

[ClubsRDead]

I love the part about escape planners working diligently, because I have yet to get a response to a tentative reservation I placed LAST WEEK.

In fairness, we need to give our planners a break. Mine said there are only a couple of them left and they've been given no direction. And they've had their payroll late and delayed several times already.

It sounds like JT and RK are still at the wheel of this bus. Very disturbing.

And by the way, no one is buying this club and all of us, and all of the homes in 30 days. Impossible.

 

[Desties]

In fairness, we need to give our planners a break. Mine said there are only a couple of them left and they've been given no direction. And they've had their payroll late and delayed several times already.

It sounds like JT and RK are still at the wheel of this bus. Very disturbing.

And by the way, no one is buying this club and all of us, and all of the homes in 30 days. Impossible.

I didn't mean that as a shot at the planners themselves, because I know full well that they have a handful doing the job of many. I just find it amusing that ADDITIONAL service is being offered from its already delpeted fleet.

And I'm not sure about the JT & RK conspiracy theories. Did you notice that this is the first missive WITHOUT JT's signature at the end? I think this is CapSource's game now.

As for a buyer stepping up before DIP dries up, it's really a matter of what CapSource is willing to concede here. If any club wants a chance at all -- or most -- of UE's 1200 the time to act is while it's still under Chapter 11 (as was the case with 650 of the 750 T&H members going to UR, no?).

Either way, while I did have a late November stay booked at one of the 70 properties still around, I went ahead and made alternate reservations this afternoon because we can't count on anything after October 19.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And I'm not sure about the JT & RK conspiracy theories. Did you notice that this is the first missive WITHOUT JT's signature at the end? I think this is CapSource's game now.

Slightly disagree.....I fear JT is using his leverage with CapSource ("do what I want or I'll do a CH7 and you won't even get to have any control") to stay in some amount of control here. CapSource can't get a real role in decisons until a Court gives them that right...the whole idea of the US Bankruptcy code is to protect debtors, not creditors...and I imagine JT is taking full advantage of that.

Let's hope the CRO steps up at some point. Right now, they should be embarrassed by the comparison with the CRO in the T&H BK since she ran conference calls, took control and got McGrath out of the operations, and kept members informed. These guys have done nothing to make members supportive.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

From the www.ultimatemembers.org web site

And probably a pretty good guess.....

Posted by : uesigmember


"Pretty obvious that JT is still in charge and rumors floating he "cut a deal" for cash and authority during this process. Even the CRO not sending out this communication directly is a tell tale sign. People are going to be, or should be, quite irate that JT or RK or any of that high paid team has anything to do with this process anymore, especially if they continue to get paid.

All they are doing by interjecting themselves is hurting the sale process and any and all viable alternatives to come to the table by depleting value. No one in their right mind is going to bid on the company, share their thoughts or ideas which help us with them still being around.

Too bad the CRO doesnt have a conference call memo out already like the last time we lost our cash and say basically the same thing "I am in charge, they (JT,RK, etc) are gone and I am here to help you.

Big, big fumbling of the ball here. Accordingly, I'd expect the next 30 days to be a disaster."

 

[Boccalu]

Have been lurking for a while. Posting now that the fat lady has sung...

JT and RK are the lowest of the low. They did all they could to mislead members and coax (extort) money from anyone they could . They did almost nothing (nothing that I can think of anyway) that evidenced concern for members anywhere in this process. Thier modus operandi was akin to a highway robber; taking your vacations and sunk costs hostage and demanding additional money to allow you to see them again.

They felt no remorse in continuing to take fat salaries as they drove the bus into a wall. As someone who started a business and felt I owed it to my investors to work for subsistence wages when times were tough, thier lack of willingess to share our pain was what caused me to balk at the asessment and forgo what had been a great experience.

The UE saga has convinced me that the DC model just cannot work. I know that one of my primary motivations for joining was the thought that "I can't own and maintain one vacation property for what this is going to cost me and with the DC I'll get mutiple properties in multiple locations with incredible service." In the back of my mind a voice told me this was too good to be true and, alas, it was.

Obviously JT and RK's self dealing hastened UE's demise. But do the rest of you actually believe a DC can be run in such a way as to provide the experiences we have all gotten use to and remain solvent (never mind profitable) unless prices rise well beyond what most of us would be willing to pay?

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Bankruptcy Petition

I took a brief look at the UE bankruptcy petition and list of creditors.

Lists $10-50M in estimated assets and $100-500M in estimated debts.

Some of the biggest unsecured creditors are Trump NY, lawyers (two with around 300-400K in fees (I'm guessing at least in part related to the potential deal with Quintess)), and 5 or 6 members that litigated and settled. I assume it does not include all litigants, because if IIRC, some of those settling members were smart enough to get assets set aside to satisfy their settlements from the sale of houses.

Interesting to see the pretty generous settlements that folks were able to obtain.

 

[Torn and Frayed]

Have been lurking for a while. Posting now that the fat lady has sung...

JT and RK are the lowest of the low. They did all they could to mislead members and coax (extort) money from anyone they could . They did almost nothing (nothing that I can think of anyway) that evidenced concern for members anywhere in this process. Thier modus operandi was akin to a highway robber; taking your vacations and sunk costs hostage and demanding additional money to allow you to see them again.

They felt no remorse in continuing to take fat salaries as they drove the bus into a wall. As someone who started a business and felt I owed it to my investors to work for subsistence wages when times were tough, thier lack of willingess to share our pain was what caused me to balk at the asessment and forgo what had been a great experience.

The UE saga has convinced me that the DC model just cannot work. I know that one of my primary motivations for joining was the thought that "I can't own and maintain one vacation property for what this is going to cost me and with the DC I'll get mutiple properties in multiple locations with incredible service." In the back of my mind a voice told me this was too good to be true and, alas, it was.

Obviously JT and RK's self dealing hastened UE's demise. But do the rest of you actually believe a DC can be run in such a way as to provide the experiences we have all gotten use to and remain solvent (never mind profitable) unless prices rise well beyond what most of us would be willing to pay?

So BestHC pursuant to page 3, paragraph 4 of our Settlement Agreement with the various entities know collectively as "Ultimate Escapes", you and I are now free to disclose our "Confidential Information". I will gracefully yield the floor... . Thank you for being relatively reticent to this point.

P.S. If you do not still have the draft complaint, I do.

 

[Leonardo]

I took a brief look at the UE bankruptcy petition and list of creditors.

Interesting to see the pretty generous settlements that folks were able to obtain.

Tarheel, when you say these were 'generous settlements', what are you basing that on? I know you followed many of these lawsuits, but do you know how the settlements compared to the deposits these members put down? For example, the largest creditor from a legal settlement was for $231K, then next largest was $171.7K, then $152K, etc; all of which may well have been significantly less then they were owed... Can you comment further???

 

[TarheelTraveler]

Tarheel, when you say these were 'generous settlements', what are you basing that on? I know you followed many of these lawsuits, but do you know how the settlements compared to the deposits these members put down? For example, the largest creditor from a legal settlement was for $231K, then next largest was $171.7K, then $152K, etc; all of which may well have been significantly less then they were owed... Can you comment further???

I don't remember the deposits that were put down. Seemed like they varied pretty significantly. However, they were certainly settled for a lot more than "nuisance value." IMHO, it shows you what the lawyers thought they were worth based on the facts of those cases.

 

[AKTHUE]

Tarheel, when you say these were 'generous settlements', what are you basing that on? I know you followed many of these lawsuits, but do you know how the settlements compared to the deposits these members put down? For example, the largest creditor from a legal settlement was for $231K, then next largest was $171.7K, then $152K, etc; all of which may well have been significantly less then they were owed... Can you comment further???

If they were unsecured, they may be worth 0

 

[TarheelTraveler]

If they were unsecured, they may be worth 0

I agree with you.

 

[BestHC]

So BestHC pursuant to page 3, paragraph 4 of our Settlement Agreement with the various entities know collectively as "Ultimate Escapes", you and I are now free to disclose our "Confidential Information". I will gracefully yield the floor... . Thank you for being relatively reticent to this point.

P.S. If you do not still have the draft complaint, I do.

You are far more eloquent than I...feel free to share

 

[ClubsRDead]

If they were unsecured, they may be worth 0

As I recall, these were agreed upon settlement amounts for various claims based on non-refunded deposits. The problem is, they didn't get paid, they just agreed on a settlement amount. Unless they have a claim tied to any of the assets pari passu with the lender, they've just been moved to the unsecured pool. The fact that they're listed in the category of "largest unsecured's" tells you what the outcome is going to be......zero dollars recovery.