RCI Suspended Eagle Village Tamiment

[Sammy1234]

I think you are under the assumption that the outdoor pool belonged to Eagle Village. It never did.
It belonged to Tamiment Hotel and Conference Center. That was the big,, hugely famous resort that they tore down. Eagle Village was a separate timeshare community that was built along the lake(which by the way EV never owned) and payed dues to use the big resort. It was devasting to EV when it came down and EV sued for breach of contract. The result was the owner of that resort had to build our recreation center. I agree with you 100% about the communications. I know alot about this because I go there periodically. I pay $55 to have my unit cleaned if I rent to someone for only 3 days and I have a second set of renters finishing out the week. EV is only responsible to clean the units every Friday. That is part of our maintenance fee. I suspect some owners rent without paying for the extra cleaning between midweek. That would explain the dirty units. That is not EVs fault. I really want to stress there are alot of outside influences going on. There are several entities that own defaulted weeks that rent them out. EV does not have control over them. Also, I don't rent to timeshare owners. I rent only my unit which I believe still has many owners, so our MFs are used to keep our building relatively decent. I would be extremely mad if they used even a penny of my money on a building that has very few owners helping with the cost. Do you see my reasoning? EV has less than 50% ownership. That is a huge hole in the budget. Unfortunately, this current board has made a mistake to not communicate. Plus you can't hire a receptionist and then tell her to go clean a unit!!!! (Really??) When I went there in the past, the office always had their updates posted in the office. People were friendly. Now I think they hide because they dont know how to explain things to guests. They are just employees. Not part of the board. And i have never seen anyone smoke. It was probably one instance and you cant take that account and blanket all the employees. They expect owners to visit. But so many weeks were sold to people who never intended on using EV. They were sold a timeshare with very low maintenance fees, and then got high points to trade. It was great! But over the years, EV lost point value from RCI, as it lost owners and tried to spread the MFs to cover all the units. You can only spread butter so far. They had to make a choice, I suspect. Did you look up Viking Ships? I want to be realistic about this. I want to understand the underlying cause. But I am 100% sure nobody stole our MFs or mismanaged the money. But I would definitely hold the board's feet to the fire for miscommunication....gladly.

 

[Sammy1234]

Where are the maintenance workers? Why could they not clean the units? Because they certainly are not doing maintenance. When they sued for breach of contract for taking away the pool, did they win? If so, what kind of compensation did they get? If they did get compensation, why didn't they use that money to put in a new pool? Just because you have not seen employees in the office smoking pot, doesn't mean they are not. Do you really think someone would make that up to put in a review? Can you image a family walking in the office to check in and they had small children and the employees are smoking pot?
As far as not having money to do maintenance, lets for example look at the pictures with mold in the bathroom, how expensive is it to buy a gallon of bleach and clean it? A broken mirror over the spa tub with sharp edges, just take it down and paint the wall, how expensive is a gallon of paint. Stained carpets, you can buy a carpet cleaner for a little over $100. A dishwasher that was not properly put in and fastened, no cost, just get the tools and put it in right. I could just keep going with how if little things would have been taken care of and routine upkeep would have been done, it would not have escalated to how bad it is now. So again, I am not feeling the poor people that are working and trying to hide from people that need help.

 

[nellevad]

Where are the maintenance workers? Why are units not cleaned? You have to pay people. No money, no pay. No MFs, no money. I also explained the recreation center with the inside pool, exercise room, game room, basketball and tennis court, volleyball, mini golf and playground were ALL paid for by the entity that tore down the Hotel. That was the settlement. Owners never even got a special assessment or raise in MFs. How long have you been an owner? I feel you have gotten some misinformation from someone.

 

[194725RR]

I appreciate the different viewpoints expressed in trying to sort out a solution. The latest budget that created our maintenance fees for 2024 was nearly 2 million dollars and included line items for maintenance, office staff, and other relevant employee's pay. Since this maintenance fee has not increased, I assume this has been the annual budget each year for some time. Someone's taking that money and doing something with it. If it was correctly apportioned, one would think the line item categories would have been properly attended to. Without communication from the board, we're left with a sense that property owners and resort guests are essentially being inappropriately treated, and mismanagement is rampant. Units that are not fit for use should be closed, not rented. This would allow the units that are in good shape to help create revenue as was suggested in this thread. It doesn't seem like there is any sense being used to manage the property, hence the conclusion of mismanagement.

 

[nellevad]

How do you figure 2 million? There are 68 units. Each unit has 51 weeks. The 52nd week is never sold. So 68 x51 =3468 weeks. Each week has a MF of 760. But there are less than 50 % owned. So let's say 48% owned. That leaves 1664 weeks that still pay. That would be 1664 x 760=$1,264,640 for the budget. Do you have the latest budget printout to compare? Also, they can't close a building if there is even just one owner left. Buildings 1001 through 1020 are the oldest and probably have the fewest owners and the worst condition. Dont forget that units that are in good shape have more owned weeks that EV cannot rent. EV is not a rental company or a hotel. They shouldnt even be having to rent to cover costs. But they obviously do rent to try to cover budget holes. That is in the interest of owners, not them personally. That is not mismanagement. It is a timeshare and this is what happens when a timeshare looses owners. I am just not convinced they have mismanaged money. To check finances would be easy. Show paychecks, utility bill, taxes and such. Its not something that can be hidden. That's what the budget does. And any one of us can go there and sit down with the board and ask for the books. Have they been the best at it? I dont know because I never wanted to run for a board position. Seems like a thankless position to me, lol. I am not defending the board. I am only trying to see reasonable, fact based cause. This is such an unhappy situation, but what would make it worse is if people who read this blog think they should get a lawyer and sue when it is fruitless. There is no fraud. It's just a result of years of losing owners. Be mad at all the dead owners and the ones that bailed, I guess. We got stuck holding the bag. That is what being part of a timeshare means.

 

[194725RR]

How do you figure 2 million? There are 68 units. Each unit has 51 weeks. The 52nd week is never sold. So 68 x51 =3468 weeks. Each week has a MF of 760. But there are less than 50 % owned. So let's say 48% owned. That leaves 1664 weeks that still pay. That would be 1664 x 760=$1,264,640 for the budget. Do you have the latest budget printout to compare? Also, they can't close a building if there is even just one owner left. Buildings 1001 through 1020 are the oldest and probably have the fewest owners and the worst condition. Dont forget that units that are in good shape have more owned weeks that EV cannot rent. EV is not a rental company or a hotel. They shouldnt even be having to rent to cover costs. But they obviously do rent to try to cover budget holes. That is in the interest of owners, not them personally. That is not mismanagement. It is a timeshare and this is what happens when a timeshare looses owners. I am just not convinced they have mismanaged money. To check finances would be easy. Show paychecks, utility bill, taxes and such. Its not something that can be hidden. That's what the budget does. And any one of us can go there and sit down with the board and ask for the books. Have they been the best at it? I dont know because I never wanted to run for a board position. Seems like a thankless position to me, lol. I am not defending the board. I am only trying to see reasonable, fact based cause. This is such an unhappy situation, but what would make it worse is if people who read this blog think they should get a lawyer and sue when it is fruitless. There is no fraud. It's just a result of years of losing owners. Be mad at all the dead owners and the ones that bailed, I guess. We got stuck holding the bag. That is what being part of a timeshare means.

The 2024 proposed budget totaled $1,676,487. This worked out to $760 share per unit / week.

It looks like the website may have been updated. Does it look different from your perspective?

Also, what keywords can be searched to find Eagle Village bylaws that you previously referenced?

 

[nellevad]

That works out to be 2206 owned weeks. That is probably not a correct budget. I think the budgets have looked exactly the same over the past 3 years, so I assume they didnt really want to show the reduced budget. I am in Hollywood Florida right, without my computer. As soon as I get home I will look for past year budgets, which I think I saved. You could try googling PA realestate and land records for Pike County. The website you are looking for is an .org, not a third party website. Type in Pike, then search with Tamiment, or Wayne Newton, or Eagle Village POA. The by-laws are recorded some time in the early to mid 1980's I think. You have to sign up for actual access to the PDF, and pay a fee. This are the laws that the board has to follow, just incase anyone who is reading this doesn't know about them. It is not a sales contract. Sales contracts mean nothing. I have the by-laws and will try to copy them digitally. But give me time. It is half an inch thick. I haven't looked at the website in a while. I'll check it out.

 

[nellevad]

No, website looks just the same to me.

 

[194725RR]

That works out to be 2206 owned weeks. That is probably not a correct budget. I think the budgets have looked exactly the same over the past 3 years, so I assume they didnt really want to show the reduced budget. I am in Hollywood Florida right, without my computer. As soon as I get home I will look for past year budgets, which I think I saved. You could try googling PA realestate and land records for Pike County. The website you are looking for is an .org, not a third party website. Type in Pike, then search with Tamiment, or Wayne Newton, or Eagle Village POA. The by-laws are recorded some time in the early to mid 1980's I think. You have to sign up for actual access to the PDF, and pay a fee. This are the laws that the board has to follow, just incase anyone who is reading this doesn't know about them. It is not a sales contract. Sales contracts mean nothing. I have the by-laws and will try to copy them digitally. But give me time. It is half an inch thick. I haven't looked at the website in a while. I'll check it out.

Thank you for your helpful response.

 

[194725RR]

Where are the maintenance workers? Why could they not clean the units? Because they certainly are not doing maintenance. When they sued for breach of contract for taking away the pool, did they win? If so, what kind of compensation did they get? If they did get compensation, why didn't they use that money to put in a new pool? Just because you have not seen employees in the office smoking pot, doesn't mean they are not. Do you really think someone would make that up to put in a review? Can you image a family walking in the office to check in and they had small children and the employees are smoking pot?
As far as not having money to do maintenance, lets for example look at the pictures with mold in the bathroom, how expensive is it to buy a gallon of bleach and clean it? A broken mirror over the spa tub with sharp edges, just take it down and paint the wall, how expensive is a gallon of paint. Stained carpets, you can buy a carpet cleaner for a little over $100. A dishwasher that was not properly put in and fastened, no cost, just get the tools and put it in right. I could just keep going with how if little things would have been taken care of and routine upkeep would have been done, it would not have escalated to how bad it is now. So again, I am not feeling the poor people that are working and trying to hide from people that need help.

You make some great points here. I think the next step is to review the bylaws and see what parameters we have to work with. At some point it will likely be helpful for one or some of us to visit the property and share pictures on this thread of the current conditions. I think it will be helpful to everyone if we can determine if we should continue to make maintenance payments next year or take some other action. Having no communication or updates on the property condition from the Board is like sending hard earned money into the abyss, which is understandably not acceptable. I appreciate the effort you're making in trying to help us figure this out.

 

[TugFhj]

The above pictures are my unit taken in 2021 unit 1064. Just want to show that not all units are as bad as Trip Advisor . There are positive reviews because there are still decent units. Just not updated. Also, how can you prove they mismanaged money when they never got the money from owners who stopped paying? Remember, the resort only has less then 50% ownership now, which has been the case for years, as owners died or forfeited because of lack of interest. I know it is a disappointment, but don't get carried away with accusations of mismanagement. No, money in the budget means no money to spend beyond daily running expenses. As far as Concord goes, they switched to Concord quite a few years ago to try to collect MF, in order to maintain the resort. That was an appropriate thing to do. That was good management. It is a 45 year old resort whose base has moved on. When it lost Tamiment Hotel, that shared its pool, courts, restaurant, beach with us, Eagle Village lost hundreds of owners. Nobody set out to rip off the owners. I don' t believe there is some evil plan to take our money. But what we can do is send the resort letters asking for a vote to close, If the remaining owners want it, it has to close. I for one will not spend money on legal fees that only beat a dead horse. I think more letters to the board will work better than legal action.

You show some clean pictures of rooms, but none of the most expensive items, kitchen/appliances, bathrooms, decks/porch, roof, HVAC units those are the expensive maintenance items which have not been maintained.. These items need to be updated and/or replaced, the cost to fix up this and more I am sure is way more than they could even ask for as it would be in the thousands from each owner. The board has not maintained the property properly as they should have asked for more a long time ago and made the necessary repairs. It is a difficult situation as less and less owners pay, but if resort was in better shape more people would go and you would have more owners. The resort used to be a silver rating with RCI and now has been banned! By the way that bedding was on the beds from 1985. I suggest take a look at holiday estates at cape cod and how they handled the closing of the resort.. Those resorts were in a lot better shape then Eagle Village and they said each unit needed $200k to fix. There is a thread for it.

 

[nellevad]

Yes you are right, but you can't replace and update without money. No board can. I am just making this point. Yes, they could have assessed us thousands of dollars to cover all the defaulted MFs. And then done all of that. Honestly, I think the board saw that point and chose this path (of least resistance) because if they had assessed, more owners would have defaulted. If you got a $2000 assessment would you have paid? WOULD YOU! I for one do not want to be charged $2000.00 to take care of maintenance because another owner defaulted. And then have my MF doubled to maintain all the units. Doubled because there is less than 50% ownership. I have another timeshare in Florida that sent a special assessment out of $1700 per week about 14 years ago.. they had a huge default. They were in a much better position than EV. EV was doomed the minute Tamiment Hotel and Conference Center was razed. It just took this long to come to a head. I firmly believe we should work on getting the board to communicate. If this John Oakes thing is real, then there may be a future. If not, we should press for a vote to close. But please understand, I am not in support of this board and how they handle communication.

 

[nellevad]

Yes you are right, but you can't replace and update without money. No board can. I am just making this point. Yes, they could have assessed us thousands of dollars to cover all the defaulted MFs. And then done all of that. Honestly, I think the board saw that point and chose this path (of least resistance) because if they had assessed, more owners would have defaulted. If you got a $2000 assessment would you have paid? WOULD YOU! I for one do not want to be charged $2000.00 to take care of maintenance because another owner defaulted. And then have my MF doubled to maintain all the units. Doubled because there is less than 50% ownership. I have another timeshare in Florida that sent a special assessment out of $1700 per week about 14 years ago.. they had a huge default. They were in a much better position than EV. EV was doomed the minute Tamiment Hotel and Conference Center was razed. It just took this long to come to a head. I firmly believe we should work on getting the board to communicate. If this John Oakes thing is real, then there may be a future. If not, we should press for a vote to close. But please understand, I am not in support of this board and how they handle.

 

[Black Diamond]

Did anyone get a delinquency notice from Blackwell Recovery ( DBA Concordia Servicing LLC) that wants me to pay the miniatous fee plus a $185 Late Fee? They also called me and I told them that I felt that Eagle Village has "Abandoned me as a owner."
I see no advantage to paying for something that is unusable for now, I feel that I need to wait for them to say what is EV's end game for the future.
How are you reacting to this?

 

[WarHead]

Did anyone get a delinquency notice from Blackwell Recovery ( DBA Concordia Servicing LLC) that wants me to pay the miniatous fee plus a $185 Late Fee? They also called me and I told them that I felt that Eagle Village has "Abandoned me as a owner."
I see no advantage to paying for something that is unusable for now, I feel that I need to wait for them to say what is EV's end game for the future.
How are you reacting to this?

Yes, I just got mine. No phone call yet.

 

[WarHead]

I am in the camp of those that feel there is no point throwing good money after bad at this point. I am considering not paying and taking the credit hit. Does anyone know of any former EV owners that took this route, and whether there was ever any actual report to the credit bureaus from EV, Concord, or Blackwell?

I found this thread here on TUG: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2022-timeshare-default-credit-report-collection-tracking.304138/

As well as this general page: https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/stop_paying_for_timeshare.html

Does anyone know of any other hard data on credit impact for defaulting on MF only? (My week is paid for)

 

[slarney77]

Did anyone get a delinquency notice from Blackwell Recovery ( DBA Concordia Servicing LLC) that wants me to pay the miniatous fee plus a $185 Late Fee? They also called me and I told them that I felt that Eagle Village has "Abandoned me as a owner."
I see no advantage to paying for something that is unusable for now, I feel that I need to wait for them to say what is EV's end game for the future.
How are you reacting to this?

I didcsaid lack of maintenance broke the contract

 

[natalia]

I can only report on my observations at EV.
(In person)
1.no improvements to unit: unsanitary, roaches, dirty, stains, etc.
2. Non owners are now able to rent units to live as residents not TS owners.
3.No improvements at all to recreation center.
4. All the concerns and complaints in this forum are justified and not by photos posted from several years ago.This is by in person visits.
5. I respectfully question one individuals constant defending of the condition of Eagle Village. Excuses after excuses are ridiculous to post specially, when people are paying and not getting the service they should be provided.

 

[nellevad]

I can only report on my observations at EV.
(In person)
1.no improvements to unit: unsanitary, roaches, dirty, stains, etc.
2. Non owners are now able to rent units to live as residents not TS owners.
3.No improvements at all to recreation center.
4. All the concerns and complaints in this forum are justified and not by photos posted from several years ago.This is by in person visits.
5. I respectfully question one individuals constant defending of the condition of Eagle Village. Excuses after excuses are ridiculous to post specially, when people are paying and not getting the service they should be provided.

I know you refer to me. Please understand, I am not defending. I have been there recently , too. These are my observations also. I have never seen mouse droppings or roaches. My point is there are varying conditions. It's all due to loss of MFs. Not mismanagement. I showed photos to show how difficult it will be to say the whole resort is in the same condition. Direct your anger in the right direction and demand the resort close and sell. But legally we owe, no matter how unpalatable that is. You can show a court all the bad photos and reviews you want. But each and everyone of us owe realestate taxes on our weeks. That must be paid to the county. Ev has to pay them. Do you see how complaining about dirty conditions won't fly with the county? Our only recourse is to force the board to vote to close. And to find out how indebted the resort is. If you stop paying MFs, then don't complain about letters. It's part of the process.

 

[nellevad]

And if the board is renting out deliquent buildings on a monthly basis, good. It save's me an increase in MFs until this nightmare can end.

 

[Saworkman01]

Yes you are right, but you can't replace and update without money. No board can. I am just making this point. Yes, they could have assessed us thousands of dollars to cover all the defaulted MFs. And then done all of that. Honestly, I think the board saw that point and chose this path (of least resistance) because if they had assessed, more owners would have defaulted. If you got a $2000 assessment would you have paid? WOULD YOU! I for one do not want to be charged $2000.00 to take care of maintenance because another owner defaulted. And then have my MF doubled to maintain all the units. Doubled because there is less than 50% ownership. I have another timeshare in Florida that sent a special assessment out of $1700 per week about 14 years ago.. they had a huge default. They were in a much better position than EV. EV was doomed the minute Tamiment Hotel and Conference Center was razed. It just took this long to come to a head. I firmly believe we should work on getting the board to communicate. If this John Oakes thing is real, then there may be a future. If not, we should press for a vote to close. But please understand, I am not in support of this board and how they handle.

I can agree with the lack of funding being an issue. What I have seen is that well over half the buildings are in disrepair. If half the owners are paying I would expect at least half the units to be in good shape. This stinks of staff being paid and allowed to be lazy then blame the dwindling owner base. We have paid multiple salaries in full yet the property looks and is being reviewed poorly. The budget has included lines for maintenance and management each year. I believe there is not enough on-site presence from those with a real financial stake. Stephanie Mills has not replied to multiple emails nor returned multiple phone calls. This has all occurred while she collects a salary. If she cared about Eagle Village and keeping her job then more would have been done including owner communication. Facebook costs nothing to maintain but just have a look at it. Years of barely updating it if at all. Some heads need to roll this year or we need to vote to close it down. Nothing will ever change if we allow the same people to keep doing (or not doing) the same stuff.

 

[natalia]

I can only report on my observations at EV.
(In person)
1.no improvements to unit: unsanitary, roaches, dirty, stains, etc.
2. Non owners are now able to rent units to live as residents not TS owners.
3.No improvements at all to recreation center.
4. All the concerns and complaints in this forum are justified and not by photos posted from several years ago.This is by in person visits.
5. I respectfully question one individuals constant defending of the condition of Eagle Village. Excuses after excuses are ridiculous to post specially, when people are paying and not getting the service they should be provided.

Hello fellow owners.
I refuse to engage in back and forth with anyone.This has gone on long enough.
(Specifically with somebody’s motivations that I questionboard member,employee,special interest ?)
Do not take my word on anything. If you are near the area and have the time- go there.
Look at the condition of the roads, walk the property, look at the condition of the outside of the buildings, go to the recreation center, and if you have the opportunity, enter your unit (legally) to see the conditions.
Observe where your maintenance fees have gone over the last few years.
I will never try to encourage any owner to continue to pay dues with the conditions that I see on a monthly visit basis.
Even after our complaints and concerns that were expressed at the recent membership meeting, there has been no encouraging progress. Even the Internet page and Facebook page for Eagle Village has not been updated. What does that tell you? To me it speaks volumes. Who basically is overseeing this property? This is complete Disrespect and disregard to all TS owners.

 

[natalia]

I can agree with the lack of funding being an issue. What I have seen is that well over half the buildings are in disrepair. If half the owners are paying I would expect at least half the units to be in good shape. This stinks of staff being paid and allowed to be lazy then blame the dwindling owner base. We have paid multiple salaries in full yet the property looks and is being reviewed poorly. The budget has included lines for maintenance and management each year. I believe there is not enough on-site presence from those with a real financial stake. Stephanie Mills has not replied to multiple emails nor returned multiple phone calls. This has all occurred while she collects a salary. If she cared about Eagle Village and keeping her job then more would have been done including owner communication. Facebook costs nothing to maintain but just have a look at it. Years of barely updating it if at all. Some heads need to roll this year or we need to vote to close it down. Nothing will ever change if we allow the same people to keep doing (or not doing) the same stuff.

Thank you for your common sense observation. I agree with everything you said specifically The conduct and lack of interest of the management staff at Eagle Village.

 

[natalia]

“Self Management”
Probably one of the most important issues here at Eagle Village is “self management.” When the organization is self managed who does the Manager report to? How is the manager and staff held responsible for the daily operations of the property if Eagle Village is self managed?A Board of Directors that lives out of state? No wonder we are having these issues with no phones being answered, office closed, no response to email inquiries etc. Even though hiring a management company definitely costs more money, in the long run at least you have responsible, professional Individuals that the association (Eagle Village) can hold responsible and are capable of working with the Board of Directors to improve the quality of the resort. When an organization does not employ professional staff that are held responsible for the above mentioned issues this is what occurs.

 

[natalia]

I can agree with the lack of funding being an issue. What I have seen is that well over half the buildings are in disrepair. If half the owners are paying I would expect at least half the units to be in good shape. This stinks of staff being paid and allowed to be lazy then blame the dwindling owner base. We have paid multiple salaries in full yet the property looks and is being reviewed poorly. The budget has included lines for maintenance and management each year. I believe there is not enough on-site presence from those with a real financial stake. Stephanie Mills has not replied to multiple emails nor returned multiple phone calls. This has all occurred while she collects a salary. If she cared about Eagle Village and keeping her job then more would have been done including owner communication. Facebook costs nothing to maintain but just have a look at it. Years of barely updating it if at all. Some heads need to roll this year or we need to vote to close it down. Nothing will ever change if we allow the same people to keep doing (or not doing) the same stuff.

Agree-100 percent
Very good points