R.I.P. -- Joe Paterno

[Talent312]

... Anyone who knows of, and does not report to the authorities of kids supposedly being molested deserves nothing.... [T]his is something he had the ability to stop...

There's no doubt that he should have done more. He has acknowledged that. However, statements such as these are half-truths and suppositions. He made a report, and his superiors did nothing. Whether he had the ability to stop it is debatable.

Kick this dead horse, spit in his grave (figuratively), but at this point, all it does is satisfy one's own sense of indignation.

 

[jlf58]

A leader for 6 decades and for this he made a report. Thats taking control of the issue correctly all right. Bottom line is he protected the football program before the kids and for that he is scum !!

 

[am1]

I think history will favor JoePa. The trustees did not even let the justice system run its course. JoePa and Sue's legacy will reap benefits for decades to come. There will never be another couple like them at Penn State.
The people who know them get it. The armchair judges can keep issuing verdicts. The law will take care of the criminals.

Penn State firing him had nothing to do with with the justice system.

He always expected more from his players than "just not breaking the law". How many players were kicked off the team for actions that did not break the law but were not with the values of being a college athlete? How many times were players kicked off the team before they were found guilty in a court of law.

 

[ksqdomer]

Penn State firing him had nothing to do with with the justice system.

He always expected more from his players than "just not breaking the law". How many players were kicked off the team for actions that did not break the law but were not with the values of being a college athlete? How many times were players kicked off the team before they were found guilty in a court of law.

apparently not that many lately. Joe made them pick up trash on Sunday in the stadium instead.:hysterical:

 

[geekette]

A leader for 6 decades and for this he made a report. Thats taking control of the issue correctly all right. Bottom line is he protected the football program before the kids and for that he is scum !!



He's a football coach. not a cop. not a shrink. He made the report. You would have him, what? sit vigil in the lockerroom non=stop for the next 6 months? Beat up Sandusky? Exactly what do you think he could have done that is more than what cops/campus authorities did? What tools did his decades of experience AS A FOOTBALL COACH give him to deal with sodomy???

I can tell you that no matter how many more years I continue my career, there is not any experience I will gain that will tell me how to confront/accuse/subdue/reason with a molester.

He was a man. He heard a witness account of something horrible. He did not have personal knowledge of anythign occurring, he was given HearSay.

And he reported it higher up because he knew he was out of his league in dealing with something like that.

Rest in peace, JoPa.

 

[jlf58]

He is a father and a man. He could have followed up, he could have talked to Sandusky, he could have spoken to the law, should I go on ? Just depends on priorities, his was football, most people, TUG not withstanding in lots of cases, it would have been the innocent child. I pity anyone who thinks thier resonsibility is less.

A leader for 6 decades and for this he made a report. Thats taking control of the issue correctly all right. Bottom line is he protected the football program before the kids and for that he is scum !!




He's a football coach. not a cop. not a shrink. He made the report. You would have him, what? sit vigil in the lockerroom non=stop for the next 6 months? Beat up Sandusky? Exactly what do you think he could have done that is more than what cops/campus authorities did? What tools did his decades of experience AS A FOOTBALL COACH give him to deal with sodomy???

I can tell you that no matter how many more years I continue my career, there is not any experience I will gain that will tell me how to confront/accuse/subdue/reason with a molester.

He was a man. He heard a witness account of something horrible. He did not have personal knowledge of anythign occurring, he was given HearSay.

And he reported it higher up because he knew he was out of his league in dealing with something like that.

Rest in peace, JoPa. Sorry the boy-loving asshole sodomized your career, too.

 

[laurac260]

Deleted deleted deleted

 

[ricoba]

Bill Dwyre in today's LA Times, does an interesting comparison of the life and legacy of two college coaching greats, John Wooden and Joe Paterno.

I find the ending statement well stated and poignant, "We will remember Wooden with blue skies, gentle breezes and a symphony orchestra playing in the background. We will remember Paterno with an asterisk."

Here is the full article.

 

[geekette]

He is a father and a man. He could have followed up, he could have talked to Sandusky, he could have spoken to the law, should I go on ? Just depends on priorities, his was football, most people, TUG not withstanding in lots of cases, it would have been the innocent child. I pity anyone who thinks thier resonsibility is less.


You don't know. You weren't there.

How many child molesters quit doing that after a stern lecture that it's a no-no? I'd love stats on that. "Oh, gee, joe, I didn't know. I'll stop..." yeah, right!

Exactly what standing would he have with the law in this case? What could he tell them? nothing. Hearsay only, no first-person account. What would The Law have told him? nothing, there would be ntohing they could tell him except,thanks, we'll take it from here.

Prob'ly univ officials would haev said same, thanks, we've got it, go back to your job.

Really, tell me specifically what he could have done that would have resulted in a different outcome??? Exactly how could he have prevented Sandusky from doing anything?

You do not know his priorities as I expect you did not know the man pesonally. How convenient for you to sit on your pompous high horse and declare what the dead man should have done about someone elses misdeeds.

 

[geekette]

<<<<Rest in peace, JoPa. ...

This might just be the most insensitive, vile, disgusting statement I have read on TUG to date.

Thank goodness we can simply click to quote someone. If I'd had to re-type this to make my point, I don't think I could have lowered myself to do so. You should be ashamed of yourself. [/QUOTE]

Wow. You haven't been around long. I removed it since you were offended.

I'm not ashamed of myself for sticking up for a dead man that is on this thread being crucified for crimes committed by another. To me, that is the insensitive, vile and disgusting stuff going on here. your opinion is obviously different.

 

[jlf58]

First off, he wasn't a dead man until recently (see your post below) secondly Sandusky reported directly to him ? ?Bosses are responsible for what people under them do. Your missing the BIG point, as a boss, if someone is using my locker room to rape small boys, yes, I might want to look further into it myself. You are very nieve to think Joe was onlyworried about his football program and not what actually happen. Joe was either an idiot or a sly fox, you pick which but either makes him look pretty bad.

"" Exactly how could he have prevented Sandusky from doing anything? ""

Really, geez, I dont know, how about firing him so he couldn't rape any more kids on Penn State property, just a thought. Thats the problem with the world, people stand by and do nothing !! I am done with this, I think he is scum, you think what you want !

He is a father and a man. He could have followed up, he could have talked to Sandusky, he could have spoken to the law, should I go on ? Just depends on priorities, his was football, most people, TUG not withstanding in lots of cases, it would have been the innocent child. I pity anyone who thinks thier resonsibility is less.



You don't know. You weren't there.

How many child molesters quit doing that after a stern lecture that it's a no-no? I'd love stats on that. "Oh, gee, joe, I didn't know. I'll stop..." yeah, right!

Exactly what standing would he have with the law in this case? What could he tell them? nothing. Hearsay only, no first-person account. What would The Law have told him? nothing, there would be ntohing they could tell him except,thanks, we'll take it from here.

Prob'ly univ officials would haev said same, thanks, we've got it, go back to your job.

Really, tell me specifically what he could have done that would have resulted in a different outcome??? Exactly how could he have prevented Sandusky from doing anything?

You do not know his priorities as I expect you did not know the man pesonally. How convenient for you to sit on your pompous high horse and declare what the dead man should have done about someone elses misdeeds.

 

[Talent312]

... Bosses are responsible for what people under them do. Your missing the BIG point, as a boss, if someone is using my locker room to rape small boys, yes, I might want to look further into it myself....

"Exactly how could he have prevented Sandusky from doing anything?"
Really, geez, I dont know, how about firing him...

In your rush to judgment, like so many others, you get a failing grade on the facts. Emotional responses are usually not very responsible. Sandusky was not employed by the school or the football program at the time of the incident. Paterno was not his boss and thus, firing him was not an option.

The Facts: Sandusky's final game as a coach at Penn State was at the 1999 Alamo
Bowl. Penn State won 24–0. It wasn't until 2002 that Assistant Coach Mike McQueary walked in on Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy. The next day, McQueary reported the incident to Paterno, who then informed AD Tim Curley.

But I doubt that facts matter all that much to some.

 

[SueDonJ]

I haven't changed my opinion about Joe Paterno's role in Jerry Sandusky's sickening activities one iota from that other thread. Joe Paterno obviously had the power to do more than he did when he was first made aware of what was happening in his facilities (and, none of us knows when exactly that was.) When I think about the Trustees trying to oust him as head football coach in 2004 and him being able to dismiss them so easily, I think it must have taken him only one sentence to force them to back off from trying to fire him:

"I will go public with what we ALL know."

That's all he had to say to protect his job and his friend, and I'm convinced he said it without a second thought. That's how important the football program at Penn State was to him, how self-important he believed himself to be because of the accolades showered upon him by the community. That's the kind of power he had and abused. Jerry Sandusky's acts were criminal and despicable, but it was the cover-up that enabled him to perform those acts on so many young boys over so many years. Those who participated in the cover-up are almost as responsible for the victims' distress as Jerry Sandusky is. If we are supposed to idolize Joe Paterno for every good thing that ever came out of Penn State's football program under his tutelage, then we must also hold him ultimately responsible for every bad thing. And the bad things that happened there could not have been any worse.

It's despicable to me that Joe Paterno is perceived to be a victim in all this. There is nothing wrong with trying to analyze why any of the people involved in this situation performed the way they did, but not one of them should be excused from blame. Not one. And when it came to any- and everything connected to that football program, the buck stopped with Joe Paterno.

I feel terribly for his family having to grieve amongst the swirling controversy. I'm sad that their world, everything they've ever known, has been turned upside down in the last six months or so. But I don't believe that we all have a duty to not speak ill of the man now that he's gone. Or maybe, I don't believe that such a duty can be said to be more important than the duty he had, and ignored, while he was alive.

Quite honestly, I don't suffer the slightest little bit of guilt at all over speaking ill of the dead men who covered up and perpetuated the similar scandal in the catholic church, and some of those men - pedophile or protector - were supposedly recipients of a higher calling. I'm pretty sure I won't suffer any guilt over thinking badly of Joe Paterno until the day I die.

 

[SueDonJ]

In your rush to judgment, like so many others, you get a failing grade on the facts. Emotional responses are usually not very responsible. Sandusky was not employed by the school or the football program at the time of the incident. Paterno was not his boss and thus, firing him was not an option.

The Facts: Sandusky's final game as a coach at Penn State was at the 1999 Alamo Bowl. Penn State won 24–0. It wasn't until 2002 that Assistant Coach Mike McQueary said he walked in on Sandusky anally raping a ten-year-old boy. The next day, McQueary reported the incident to Paterno, who informed AD Tim Curley.

But I doubt that facts matter all that much to some.

Sandusky had privileges long after his removal as a coach to use the facilities at Penn State. If Joe Paterno had said the word, those privileges would have been revoked.

 

[Elan]

I haven't changed my opinion about Joe Paterno's role in Jerry Sandusky's sickening activities one iota from that other thread. Joe Paterno obviously had the power to do more than he did when he was first made aware of what was happening in his facilities (and, none of us knows when exactly that was.) When I think about the Trustees trying to oust him as head football coach in 2004 and him being able to dismiss them so easily, I think it must have taken him only one sentence to force them to back off from trying to fire him:

"I will go public with what we ALL know."

That's all he had to say to protect his job and his friend, and I'm convinced he said it without a second thought. That's how important the football program at Penn State was to him, how self-important he believed himself to be because of the accolades showered upon him by the community. That's the kind of power he had and abused. Jerry Sandusky's acts were criminal and despicable, but it was the cover-up that enabled him to perform those acts on so many young boys over so many years. Those who participated in the cover-up are almost as responsible for the victims' distress as Jerry Sandusky is. If we are supposed to idolize Joe Paterno for every good thing that ever came out of Penn State's football program under his tutelage, then we must also hold him ultimately responsible for every bad thing. And the bad things that happened there could not have been any worse.

It's despicable to me that Joe Paterno is perceived to be a victim in all this. There is nothing wrong with trying to analyze why any of the people involved in this situation performed the way they did, but not one of them should be excused from blame. Not one. And when it came to any- and everything connected to that football program, the buck stopped with Joe Paterno.

I feel terribly for his family having to grieve amongst the swirling controversy. I'm sad that their world, everything they've ever known, has been turned upside down in the last six months or so. But I don't believe that we all have a duty to not speak ill of the man now that he's gone. Or maybe, I don't believe that such a duty can be said to be more important than the duty he had, and ignored, while he was alive.

And quite honestly, I don't suffer the slightest little bit of guilt at all over speaking ill of the dead men who covered up and perpetuated the similar scandal in the catholic church, and some of those men were supposedly recipients of a higher calling. I'm pretty sure I won't suffer any guilt over thinking badly of Joe Paterno until the day I die.

Pretty much sums up how I feel.

The fact that he's dead doesn't diminish the lack of basic human compassion that he demonstrated while he was alive. He absolutely had the power to do more and he didn't. His inaction will be his legacy.

 

[rrlongwell]

I just heard on TV that Pennsylvania Govenor Tom Corbet (Former Attorney General for Pennsylvania) has ordered the State Flags to half mast in honor of Joe Paterno. I think that just said it all.

 

[jlf58]

well said Sue

I haven't changed my opinion about Joe Paterno's role in Jerry Sandusky's sickening activities one iota from that other thread. Joe Paterno obviously had the power to do more than he did when he was first made aware of what was happening in his facilities (and, none of us knows when exactly that was.) When I think about the Trustees trying to oust him as head football coach in 2004 and him being able to dismiss them so easily, I think it must have taken him only one sentence to force them to back off from trying to fire him:

"I will go public with what we ALL know."

That's all he had to say to protect his job and his friend, and I'm convinced he said it without a second thought. That's how important the football program at Penn State was to him, how self-important he believed himself to be because of the accolades showered upon him by the community. That's the kind of power he had and abused. Jerry Sandusky's acts were criminal and despicable, but it was the cover-up that enabled him to perform those acts on so many young boys over so many years. Those who participated in the cover-up are almost as responsible for the victims' distress as Jerry Sandusky is. If we are supposed to idolize Joe Paterno for every good thing that ever came out of Penn State's football program under his tutelage, then we must also hold him ultimately responsible for every bad thing. And the bad things that happened there could not have been any worse.

It's despicable to me that Joe Paterno is perceived to be a victim in all this. There is nothing wrong with trying to analyze why any of the people involved in this situation performed the way they did, but not one of them should be excused from blame. Not one. And when it came to any- and everything connected to that football program, the buck stopped with Joe Paterno.

I feel terribly for his family having to grieve amongst the swirling controversy. I'm sad that their world, everything they've ever known, has been turned upside down in the last six months or so. But I don't believe that we all have a duty to not speak ill of the man now that he's gone. Or maybe, I don't believe that such a duty can be said to be more important than the duty he had, and ignored, while he was alive.

Quite honestly, I don't suffer the slightest little bit of guilt at all over speaking ill of the dead men who covered up and perpetuated the similar scandal in the catholic church, and some of those men - pedophile or protector - were supposedly recipients of a higher calling. I'm pretty sure I won't suffer any guilt over thinking badly of Joe Paterno until the day I die.

 

[laurac260]

<<<<Wow. You haven't been around long. I removed it since you were offended.

I'm not ashamed of myself for sticking up for a dead man that is on this thread being crucified for crimes committed by another. To me, that is the insensitive, vile and disgusting stuff going on here. your opinion is obviously different.[/QUOTE]>>>

Geekette, Stick up for him all you want. It's your choice of words that I found disgusting, especially in light of what happened . I doubt I'm the only one who found your choice of words vile, disgusting, insensitive , crude. I'll show complete decency and decorum for the deceased joe paterno. Show some decency and decorum for the victims. Were it not for the children who were molested, we wouldn't even be here talking about this.

 

[SueDonJ]

I just heard on TV that Pennsylvania Governor Tom Corbet (Former Attorney General for Pennsylvania) has ordered the State Flags to half mast in honor of Joe Paterno. I think that just said it all.

So often when scandals like this break, practically the only thing that every single person agrees upon is, "I just hope that we learn something from all this."

Nothing was learned here, nothing. When the culture there is so tainted that state officials have determined that Joe Paterno's life is worth celebrating in the single most respectful manner that's normally reserved for only the most good and heroic among us, we have learned nothing.

If I lived in PA, my flag would not be at half-staff.

 

[SueDonJ]

Geekette, Stick up for him all you want. It's your choice of words that I found disgusting, especially in light of what happened . I doubt I'm the only one who found your choice of words vile, disgusting, insensitive , crude. I'll show complete decency and decorum for the deceased joe paterno. Show some decency and decorum for the victims. Were it not for the children who were molested, we wouldn't even be here talking about this.

Laura, you might disagree. But I think that when folks self-edit their own posts, it's only decent to edit yours where you copied them. It might not change what either of you are thinking, but it still should be done.

 

[laurac260]

Laura, you might disagree. But I think that when folks self-edit their own posts, it's only decent to edit yours where you copied them. It might not change what either of you are thinking, but it still should be done.

i have deleted my original post. Thanks Sue.

 

[AKE]

R.I.P. to an outstanding man with strong conviction to fair play to all his students.

I can forgive.

And if it was your child or spouse or whoever? There is NO forgiveness for people who stand by and watch children get molested. Outstanding? you have got to be kidding or have blinders on. He was of weak morale character, had no convictions except that football was ahead of everything and at the price of everything else. It is interesting that even in prison child molesters are segregated from the rest of the inmates as they would never survive... there is even a code of ethics among murderers and other hard core criminals and people here try to brush it off as nothing more than a slight deviation. I hope that the football program here, and in every other university where such actions were condoned be eliminated... and if the university doesn't survive because of a lack of donors then let it be a lesson for others.

 

[rrlongwell]

So often when scandals like this break, practically the only thing that every single person agrees upon is, "I just hope that we learn something from all this."

Nothing was learned here, nothing. When the culture there is so tainted that state officials have determined that Joe Paterno's life is worth celebrating in the single most respectful manner that's normally reserved for only the most good and heroic among us, we have learned nothing.

If I lived in PA, my flag would not be at half-staff.

Nothing was learned may or may not be correct. The fact of the matter, this scandle brought forth no evidence that I have heard reported that implicated Penn State's Football Program in illegal activities under State Law on this topic. All reports I have heard indicated that the legally required reporting was done by the Active Football coaches for the relevant timeframes. There is no significant dispute that Penn State is now a National if not International player in Education due in part to the work of the Penn State Football program.

The fact of the matter is, according to news reports, that the Penn State University Board of Directors is undergoing dramtic changes not to mention that Penn State is sporting a new President. I would not say that nothing was learned.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I do not believe that a spectator event(s) should define a university. The Roman Empire had games and vast stadiums where "games" were held. Their empired collapsed, too.

I tended multiple colleges and taught at several junior colleges. I thought learning was in the classroom years ago; today, it seems to also be occurring in online computer sessions, too. What seems to occur at "games" are rituals ... beating of the chests, waving of pompoms, pounding of drums, emptying of kegs, painting of faces, etc.

All this for whose benefit? Educating our youth, developing a wonder drug, creating a better mouse trap, enriching our life, world peace?

 

[geekette]

Yes, you are right, it was uncalled for, and I do apologize.

Were it not for the children who were molested, we wouldn't even be here talking about this[\quote]

But this is a REST IN PEACE thread for Joe Paterno, not a 'let's find a way to support the victims of Sandusky' thread or 'let's spit on JoePa's grave!' thread. I may still be here without the scandal.

What I might toast the deceased is very appropriate in this kind of thread. Think of me with the guys shooting pool in the back of the bar, those of us gathering after his service, remembering him our own way, as a football guy. cuz that's what he was. Sandusky was scum. whether or not he actually did it, something is wrong with that man. And I think he probably did bad things to boys. But Joe Paterno didn't.

Laura, I am sorry. I truly did not mean to offend you.
[/apology]

I didn't come to the this thread to jump to his defense, I just found the topic turning very insensitive for obit'ish nature, while I just wanted to remember the coach and his teams.

I don't presume to have really known the guy. Anyone here actually know the guy, have him actually know your name? Did you know for sure what did or didn't occur and when and in view of whom? no, you don't. and neither do I. I am American and believe in innocent until proven guilty. in court and in my mind.

so give the dead man a thread of peace. take the accusations and such elsewhere. in a sandusky thread where joepaterno can just be another guy in the story. because that's what he was so far as I know. I do not know for a fact that joe paterno had all the power at the university, that he could have done anything he wanted. how do any of you KNOW this?

A desperate spreading of blame to whomever came near the problem is unfair. I wouldn't fire someone because someone else said they saw them do something wrong. and I don't KNOW that Joe Paterno did anything wrong, nor that he KNEW that Sand was doing wrong. I hold the campus authorities/police culpable for not fully investigating and preventing further incidents. They were notified. Where are the HANG THOSE GUYS threads??

But one man who had no control over the boys camp, did not have kids under his own entrustment molested (Sandusky didn't molest any Penn State students, right?), did not have the highest power in the land, and frankly, probably wasn't as brilliant in life as he was in football? No, I am not laying this at his doorstep because I actually think he did what he should. I'm not sure he could have done much more, and if you ARE sure, start a thread for the proof.

but, sheesh, give the grave dancing a rest in this thread, will ya? go elsewhere to do it.

Rest In Peace, Coach Paterno