Proposed internal exchange program and restrictions on resale weeks

[PerryM]

It always comes down to money....something easy to measure

Perry: in any well-run corporation, the principal goal is profit, not stock appreciation. I would guess this is true within Marriott. You would think these two goals would follow each other closely, but then you would disregard buyouts, option-based compensation and other manipulations that you hear about too often where companies do exactly as you say--worry about stock price before profit. Long term this is not a good plan. Just a minor observation.

Once a company issues stock for the first time (IPO), the price of that stock will then change due to the efforts of 1) the company, 2) the market, and 3) outside influences like class action lawsuits or government edicts. However the company wants happy stockholders which mean doing a great job of whatever they do as a business. Efficiency, expectations and evolution are items that greatly influence the market’s impression of how the company is doing.

I don’t know a thing about Marriott, the stock, but the timeshare division has a contribution that must meet top management’s expectations or heads will roll. Management must decide if developing, implementing, and maintaining timeshare exchanges internally is worth the risk to Marriott and their jobs.

Marriott is a timeshare developer and currently unloads exchanges to a 3rd party, II. Does it make sense to the stockholders to take that business internally? It sure does if it means money in their pockets with bigger dividends and/or other folks thinking that they must now own Marriott to get in on internal timeshare exchanges. Failure to meet these expectations will be disastrous to Marriott.

I personally think that the risk is worth it if they do exchanges COMPLETELY different than now done and it becomes a sales tool. I could go on and on how a Point System does this but no one here would care and Marriott already knows.

P.S.
Being a former software consultant I know that this is a HUGE undertaking - HUGE risk to all those Marriott employees involved - good luck guys. II should really be the one to develop this and just pay them a royalty for each exchange.

 

[littlestar]

Talked to my husband about this whole thread and he said we're keeping our little Marriott EOY week. He said as long as he can trade into Horizons Orlando with our Horizons Branson week, he's happy. That's what we bought it for.

 

[Dean]

I didn’t mean to pick on Dave. Maybe I had too much caffeine yesterday. If my comments are seen as a personal attack on Dave, then I sincerely apologize. Yes, I have seen Dave post some very positive and helpful information. He is probably a great guy.

But Perry, you express my concerns very clearly when you say: “However, what happens on this little chat room is just a whimsical footnote to the developers. I truly believe that they start some of their management meetings with “Did you hear what TUG is saying today?”

Is that what TUG wants to be – just a place for whimsical chat? When Marriott changed the rules to give priority to those who bought multiple weeks (see complaint from ICONNECTIONS and others) did TUG complain to Marriott that it was acting unethically? If Marriott tries to implement a new policy that harms its customers, will TUG try to contact Marriott to mediate or oppose the new policy? If not, then TUG is just a forum to explain Marriott’s policies and allow us owners to vent to no purpose.

Dave said: “I'm not judging or lobbying. I'm reporting.” OK. That is helpful to put us on alert that something wicked this way comes. But how about using his connections with Marriott to tell Marriott that TUG members believe that they are going to be harmed by this change. It would be nice to think that Marriott is fully informed before it makes its decision. If Marriott acts improperly then owners can find ways to oppose Marriott’s actions.

I’m a 60s rebel. I don’t like to see big business trample on the rights of its customers. Many of Marriott’s TS owners are hard working people who believed the little white lies told to them by the salespeople. There are still a few businesses in this country that put the welfare of its customers first. Unfortunately, that philosophy seems to be dying. No wonder the rest of the world is losing respect for this country.

I see TUG as a community to share information and not as an activist group though the individual members are free to complain if they want. Timesharing today will often contact a resort or system regarding complaints and print both the complaint and response when appropriate. The 12/13 month option likely predates many of the Marriott owners here, but certainly not all, as it's been in place a number of years. It's also clearly within their right to do so in my reading of the legals documents I've seen from several of the resorts including the 3 newest on HH. It's also positive to many owners while being negative to others, as is the case with essentially any system change. Rather than getting mad, many of us went and bought other weeks to use the change to our advantage.

While I'd agree Marriott is in this to make money, they certainly know more about what's best for the resorts they manage than do the majority of the owners. Most owners don't even vote when they have the opportunity and few can name members of their BOD. Does that mean that every decision they make will work out for the best, certainly not, they do have a business to run and an industry reputation to maintain. Thus having inferior resorts in their system hurts the other owners, stockholders and company in general.

Talked to my husband about this whole thread and he said we're keeping our little Marriott EOY week. He said as long as he can trade into Horizons Orlando with our Horizons Branson week, he's happy. That's what we bought it for.

Moving out would likely be a bad decision anyway, the question is about buying resale going forward. While Marriott has not obligation to grandfather ANY owner, my expectation would be that they will.

 

[Docklander]

But how about using his connections with Marriott to tell Marriott that TUG members believe that they are going to be harmed by this change. It would be nice to think that Marriott is fully informed before it makes its decision. If Marriott acts improperly then owners can find ways to oppose Marriott’s actions.

With all due respect that is a particularly selfish and self-serving point of view. Firstly, Dave has no duty to anyone here to use his connections to 'tell Marriott that TUG members believe that they are going to be harmed by this change' Secondly, if you seriously think that Marriott don't sit down and work out exactly what effect their decisions are going to have then you have very little understanding of how a corporation works. They know exactly what they're doing, they are fully informed of what people think & will think, they just play a balancing act of seeing how much they can get away with whilst maximising their profits at the expense of owners whilst keeping just short of starting a storm of protests that gives them unneeded bad press. Lastly, and going on from my first point, if you still believe that Marriott will be ill informed why don't you get in touch with them and put forward your case rather than expecting someone else to do it for you? Dave and I don't necessarily agree on a few things but he has been an invaluable source of info on Marriott both to me and the entire TUG population so please don't make wild comments as you have in your lasts two posts (eg. 'I’m beginning to think your last name is Marriott') as you might just make him wonder if it's really worth the hassle of posting info if he's just going to take flack - I know if it was me I'd seriously wonder.

 

[timeos2]

Funny, it's always whats good for Marriott that the resort needs

While I'd agree Marriott is in this to make money, they certainly know more about what's best for the resorts they manage than do the majority of the owners. Most owners don't even vote when they have the opportunity and few can name members of their BOD. Does that mean that every decision they make will work out for the best, certainly not, they do have a business to run and an industry reputation to maintain. Thus having inferior resorts in their system hurts the other owners

Well, reputation they now have in spades. They will unilaterally change procedures to favor new sales over existing owners. They will drop resorts through any means they can dream up when they age. They will put the Corporate income ahead of owners - everytime. And they know best for the resorts? Please.

All excellent reasons to avoid ownership with such a group and just enjoy the decent resorts they offer through non-ownership rental or trade. Far cheaper and you aren't at risk for "whats best for Marriott".

 

[Dean]

Well, reputation they now have in spades. They will unilaterally change procedures to favor new sales over existing owners. They will drop resorts through any means they can dream up when they age. They will put the Corporate income ahead of owners - everytime. And they know best for the resorts? Please.

All excellent reasons to avoid ownership with such a group and just enjoy the decent resorts they offer through non-ownership rental or trade. Far cheaper and you aren't at risk for "whats best for Marriott".

Maybe, do you own with Marriott at present? I'll point out that this is all conjecture at this point. Given there are other systems that give direct purchasers extra benefits, I doubt it'll matter that much to Marriott or to their sales. Such a change would devalue sales to a degree, the amount depends on specifics, but might actually help Marriott as a company pushing sales directly to them. Marriott has dropped a number of resorts, all I can think of didn't measure up to Marriott's current standards and were not developed nor owned by Marriott. I think one can expect one or possibly two additional resorts to be dropped in the next few years. Eventually we will see resorts dropped that were developed by Marriott, in part due to the fact that some BOD simply don't want to spend the money to keep up as with Vail.

 

[Hoc]

All excellent reasons to avoid ownership with such a group and just enjoy the decent resorts they offer through non-ownership rental or trade.

While, as you know, I'm not a huge Marriott fan, I really still think there are many reasons to own a Marriott -- more reasons that those to dump the timeshares. That is why I still own one. My Marriott resort is well kept and easily gets me good trades (with an extra "AC" week) into two other Marriotts a year that are also well-kept.

That said, and knowing Marriott's propensities, I would never pay a premium to own a Marriott, and I am certainly willing to dump my property when Marriott's greed makes the cost of ownership greater than the benefit at any particular resort I own. And I certainly am under no delusion that, just because I have a popular resort that was built by and is currently managed by Marriott, it will be a Marriott in five years.

The bottom line is that Marriott resorts are as worth owning as other resorts, as long as you get them at a fair price, do not pay a premium for the Marriott name, and do not absolutely expect them to remain a Marriott.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Life After Marriott.

They will drop resorts through any means they can dream up when they age.

So, what happens to older timeshares after Marriott drops'm ?

Do the ex-Marriotts just keep on going as independent timeshares?

Does some other timeshare company (e.g., WestGate, SunTerra) grab'm up & add'm to their existing timeshare chains?

Just wondering -- I have no dog in this fight.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[timeos2]

Remember the fox in your management - er, hen house

So, what happens to older timeshares after Marriott drops'm ?

Do the ex-Marriotts just keep on going as independent timeshares?

Does some other timeshare company (e.g., WestGate, SunTerra) grab'm up & add'm to their existing timeshare chains?

Just wondering -- I have no dog in this fight.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

In at least one case a professional management - VRI - was brought in and things are being turned around for those owners. Like most developer owned management companies Marriott's answers to two masters and the owners - who actually pay the bills - don't seem to be the one that gets the benefit as sales and Corporate gets their ear.

 

[Kazakie]

The bottom line is that Marriott resorts are as worth owning as other resorts, as long as you get them at a fair price, do not pay a premium for the Marriott name, and do not absolutely expect them to remain a Marriott.

However you want do describe the premium - whether by brand name, the preference in trading, the resort portfolio, consistent maintenance, etc - it's almost impossible to not pay a premium for a marriott vs any non-hotel timeshare next door - regardless if it is from developer or resale.

 

[Hoc]

However you want do describe the premium - whether by brand name, the preference in trading, the resort portfolio, consistent maintenance, etc - it's almost impossible to not pay a premium for a marriott vs any non-hotel timeshare next door - regardless if it is from developer or resale.

I disagree. I did not pay a premium for my Marriott Custom House over what I would have paid for any timeshare located in the heart of the historic part of downtown Boston. I paid the same for my Streamside unit that they were getting for other, non-Marriott timeshares in Vail during ski season.

Yes, Marriott owners who sell list at a premium price, but some get real and sell at a price that does not include a premium for the Marriott name.

 

[Dean]

I disagree. I did not pay a premium for my Marriott Custom House over what I would have paid for any timeshare located in the heart of the historic part of downtown Boston. I paid the same for my Streamside unit that they were getting for other, non-Marriott timeshares in Vail during ski season.

Yes, Marriott owners who sell list at a premium price, but some get real and sell at a price that does not include a premium for the Marriott name.

Two extreme examples I think. There is little to compare in Boston and Vail was at the bottom of the food chain with high maint fees overall. ROFR will also impact this issue for many resorts. For high demand times one will generally pay a premium for Marriott over non Marriott. The question is whether it's because of the name, a nicer resort, etc or any combination. The truth is that any nice resort that's left to run down will decrease in value. And even with somewhat of a premium there are good deals to be had for many situations. There is little overlap between a good Marriott to own to use and one to own to trade internally and this is one of the problems. It's often better to buy two weeks, one to trade and one to use with the idea of booking both weeks together at the 13 month window.

 

[hipslo]

Internal Exchanges If I had to guess, based solely on the information I have obtained, I would say that those buying from Marriott will be able to reserve their weeks earlier that those who buy resale. (Please note that the last statement is an opinion, not fact.)

If we were so inclined as to speculate on this point (and I realize its nothing more than that), would people think that Marriott would potentially drop and revamp the entire existing reservations system (ie - 12 or 13 months in advance depending on whether single or multiple weeks are being reserved, etc) from scratch as part of this process, or keep it more or less as is but give direct purchasers a bit of a jump ahead of resale purchasers?

I own multiple weeks at Mountainside, all purchased resale. I have had no problem reserving the weeks that I want at 13 months, using one or two of those weeks and renting out the balance (over time the plan is to use more, eventually all, and rent less). Just trying to get a feel for the effects that a new system might have on my ability to continue with the same usage pattern, and whether it might be time to think about dumping Mountainside and buying Westgate Park City. Any thoughts, up to and including wild speculation, would be much appreciated.

 

[Dave M]

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, the legal documents for most resorts include the 12/13-months system. Although the language in some of those docs allows Marriott to change those terms without a vote of owners or BODs, that's not true for all resorts.

Thus, it's a good bet that the 12/13-months system will stay in place and, perhaps, be "enhanced" in some way - just as Marriott enhanced it when they quietly dropped the requirement that an owner had to own multiple weeks at a single resort to reserve 13 months in advance.

Based on what I have been told, my guess is that for new resale weeks acquired after the so-far unannounced cutoff date, the current procedures would apply and Marriott would "enhance" the procedures for other owners.

 

[PerryM]

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, the legal documents for most resorts include the 12/13-months system. Although the language in some of those docs allows Marriott to change those terms without a vote of owners or BODs, that's not true for all resorts.

Thus, it's a good bet that the 12/13-months system will stay in place and, perhaps, be "enhanced" in some way - just as Marriott enhanced it when they quietly dropped the requirement that an owner had to own multiple weeks at a single resort to reserve 13 months in advance.

Based on what I have been told, my guess is that for new resale weeks acquired after the so-far unannounced cutoff date, the current procedures would apply and Marriott would "enhance" the procedures for other owners.

I’m betting that the day Marriott makes the announcement of an internal exchange system there will have been so many leaks that folks should be able to start a resale purchase and get to the point where their name is switched on Marriott’s records. Assume a 2 month lead time.


I don’t know when Marriot’s fiscal year starts but that’s a great time to guess as to when it would be announced.

Just a WAG on my part but something I will be looking at in 2008.

 

[hipslo]

Based on what I have been told, my guess is that for new resale weeks acquired after the so-far unannounced cutoff date, the current procedures would apply and Marriott would "enhance" the procedures for other owners.

I wonder whether any new, "enhanced" procedures would continue to give an advantage to multiple week owners over single week owners. If so, things could get pretty complicated pretty quickly. Different rules for (i) multiple week direct purchasers and multiple week grandfathered resale purchasers (as an aside, though I'd like to believe that we will all be grandfathered, it strikes me as at least a bit naive to think that things will really turn out that way, though I will keep my fingers crossed), (ii) single week direct purchasers and single week grandfathered resale purchasers, (ii) multiple week non-grandfathered resale purchasers, and (iv) single week non-grandfathered resale purchasers. Would single week direct purchasers have priority with multiple week resale purchasers? Would the two groups be on the same footing?

Its also interesting to speculate as to what it might take to get into the prized "direct purchaser" category. For example, I own multiple resale weeks. Lets assume for the moment that existing resale owners are not grandfathered. Could I take advantage of the new reservation "enhancements" if I purchase a single week directly from Marriott? If so would I then be considered a single week direct purchaser and a multiple week resale purchaser, or perhaps the single direct purchase could elevate the status of the resale weeks and make some or all of them eligible for the new "enhanced" reservation system?


The possibilities seem almost endless to contemplate. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[Dave M]

I don’t know when Marriot’s fiscal year starts but that’s a great time to guess as to when it would be announced.

Marriott is on a 52-53 week calendar year, with this year ending on December 28. Since this change would be a very tiny blip on Marriott's overall corporate radar screen, I don't expect much - if any - in the way of a public announcement, just as there was no announcement for the change in the rental program. I certainly don't expect any announcement within the next few months. There is still too much work to do on this change internally.

 

[Dean]

Although the language in some of those docs allows Marriott to change those terms without a vote of owners or BODs, that's not true for all resorts.

Dave, I'm not aware of any resort in the Marriott system that doesn't give Marriott the right to determine the reservation system on their own. I know it was argued that Maui didn't but from the info I saw posted I think they do have that right there though I haven't seen the entire legal package there. It was simply not as clear as some of the other resorts assuming that the entire applicable info was posted. Do you have further specifics?

 

[Dave M]

Thanks, Dean. I stand corrected. I thought Grande Ocean was one.

The original reservation procedures for GO are part of the Master Deed (as an exhibit), which can be amended only by unanimous consent of the owners. However, the individual exhibits to the Master Deed can be amended as outlined in each exhibit. And the one for reservations can be amended by the Declarant (i.e., Marriott).

Incidentally, in my early 1990s GO POS, there is no 13-month reservation system. All owners, at the time, could request reservations starting on June 1 for any dates within the owner's season for the following year. Priority was to be given to those owners of multiple GO weeks who wanted to reserve consecutively or concurrently, but they couldn't request reservations any earlier than single-week owners. No reservation requests would be accepted after October 15 for the following year's usage!

 

[Seth Nock]

Dave,
I have spoken to many of the other brokers, as well as my contacts in Marriott, and the other brokers have spoken to their contacts at Marriott. No one has been able to confirm what is being posted. They have brought up a number of questions though:
1. If this is to be begin with usage early 2009, as people can book 1 year to 13 months in advance, wouldn't they have to start depositing their weeks immediately for early 2009 units?
2. If Marriott is going to give any difference in ability to trade, how are they going to deal with Hawaii, Arizona and a few other state laws that prohibit that (as Weston just made those states mandatory)?
3. Interval International offers bonus certificates for many Marriott deposits. How will Marriott compete with that?
4. Interval International will often offer upgrades (have a studio trade for a 1 bedroom or 1 bedroom trade for 2 bedroom). Interval does this because they have a number of people who deposit but don't book. Marriott cannot count on that with a brand new exchange process. How would they compete?
5. Many Marriott owners don't trade for other Marriotts. How would Marriott compete with that? or would they just recommend trading through Interval?
6. Many people like the request first option. Would Marriott have that option?
7. Many people want to be able to request various properties, both Marriott and non- Marriott. How can this happen?
8. Marriott already tried an internal trade, the Florida Club. For the most part, it is a failure. Why would this be any better?
9. Why would Interval International permit Marriott to set up their own program if this would potentially cost them about Fifty Million dollars per year? Wouldn't they set up a tremendous marketing campaign to try to keep their owners. Wouldn't they offer 2 for 1 memberships, bonus certificates and reduced exchange fees?
Sorry for being so pessimistic, but we (me and about 25 other broker/agents) have been trying to have anyone at Marriott corroborate the information posted and cannot. We have also been trying to get answers to the questions above, and cannot get answers.

 

[Icarus]

Will the resale market collapse?
I doubt that the resale market will "collapse" when Marriott introduces the new resale restrictions. I don’t think that any changes that are made will “prove devastating for re-sale owners”. Currently, there is a restriction (exchange for points) that some people view as significant, yet Marriott is one of the very few chains where you can buy from the developer and - for most resorts- expect to get your money back on a resale after 5-7 years or so. Marriott isn't a dummy. Whatever they introduce will be calculated to maintain a reasonable resale market while, at the same time, encouraging people to buy from Marriott. It's a delicate balancing act and you can be sure Marriott is acutely aware of the need for that balance.

How do you figure that you can get your money back after 5-7 years if you purchased from the developer? Is that also fact? With Marriott weeks, you will tend to keep more of the value than when purchasing from many other developers, but I haven't seen that you can turn around and recoup your entire investment in 5 - 7 years. Am I missing something here? (You were the one that said that you like to post facts, Dave, that's why I'm asking. I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion?)

The restriction about points on a resale was well-known and part of the information when we purchased our Marriott weeks from the developer (or at resale).

If the rules are changed in a way that makes resales less attractive for units purchased prior to this change, I think that's going to be a problem for current owners and for Marriott. Yes, I understand that any resales already completed would be grandfathered, but that means that there would be new restrictions on resales that weren't in place when we purchased our units.

The ability to do an internal exchange or reserve your own week for occupancy is not a new feature. What's new is that Marriott would be taking it over and possibly adding new restrictions that might effect your resale value.

-David

 

[Seth Nock]

How do you figure that you can get your money back after 5-7 years if you purchased from the developer? Is that also fact? With Marriott weeks, you will tend to keep more of the value than when purchasing from many other developers, but I haven't seen that you can turn around and recoup your entire investment in 5 - 7 years. Am I missing something here? (You were the one that said that you like to post facts, Dave, that's why I'm asking. I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion?)

The restriction about points on a resale was well-known and part of the information when we purchased our Marriott weeks from the developer (or at resale).

If the rules are changed in a way that makes resales less attractive for units purchased prior to this change, I think that's going to be a problem for current owners and for Marriott. Yes, I understand that any resales already completed would be grandfathered, but that means that there would be new restrictions on resales that weren't in place when we purchased our units.

-David

Most Marriotts you will not be able to recoup your purchase price in 5-7 years (unless you bought resale). You can @ Aruba, Ko 'Olina, Maui Barony Beach Platinum and Grand Ocean Platinum. Most of the other properties, you will lose.

 

[JimIg23]

Keeping resale prices strong should be a major concern for Marriott. I don’t know if salespeople hit that point, but it is good way to get confidence in buyers. They will never hit the level that Disney has, but at least 50% is still excellent. Having a system where you can by resale at pennies on the dollar lowers the overall perception of the organization. Like Disney, I think (more hope) Marriott wants its name to be synonymous with a higher class product and have strong consumer confidence. Having a joke of a timeshare business would ultimately tarnish their other ventures.

Also, on another note concerning II. I joined II mostly for the getaways, and I have only been looking for Marriotts. Does anyone have any info/beliefs of what Marriott will do with their excess inventory? Will they continue to give it to II for getaways or use it for owner benefits in their own internal system?

 

[Dean]

Thanks, Dean. I stand corrected. I thought Grande Ocean was one.

The original reservation procedures for GO are part of the Master Deed (as an exhibit), which can be amended only by unanimous consent of the owners. However, the individual exhibits to the Master Deed can be amended as outlined in each exhibit. And the one for reservations can be amended by the Declarant (i.e., Marriott).

Incidentally, in my early 1990s GO POS, there is no 13-month reservation system. All owners, at the time, could request reservations starting on June 1 for any dates within the owner's season for the following year. Priority was to be given to those owners of multiple GO weeks who wanted to reserve consecutively or concurrently, but they couldn't request reservations any earlier than single-week owners. No reservation requests would be accepted after October 15 for the following year's usage!

Dave, the only version of the GO POS I have is the second one dated 1992. Under rules and regulations which are an exhibit and not formally part of the legal portions of any POS from my understanding, it says.

The Board of the Association reserves the right to make additional rules Rules and Regulations as may be required from time to time without the consent of the members.

Under exhibit H, the Master Deed, it outlines the then current process which required sending a letter and hopping for a reservations and goes on to say in 6.g

In the event the Agent determines that the current reservation system is unmanageable or is, for any reason, unfair to some or all of the owners, the Agent may, without the consent of the Owners and in it's reasonable business judgement, revise the reservation system from time to time...

It goes on to outline the situations and principles that should be followed similar to my Surfwatch POS does from 2005. I remember when were were heavily discussing Maui in this regard and I made the point that in order to be certain I'd need to see the entire POS document in order to be certain how I interpreted it and that would be true in this case as well but at least for GO and SW I do have and have reviewed the entire documentation. And given they represent early and late resorts and that Marriott lawyers are pretty smart, I'd be very surprised if they would get themselves stuck in an area they couldn't defend.

Keeping resale prices strong should be a major concern for Marriott. I don’t know if salespeople hit that point, but it is good way to get confidence in buyers. They will never hit the level that Disney has, but at least 50% is still excellent. Having a system where you can by resale at pennies on the dollar lowers the overall perception of the organization. Like Disney, I think (more hope) Marriott wants its name to be synonymous with a higher class product and have strong consumer confidence. Having a joke of a timeshare business would ultimately tarnish their other ventures.

Also, on another note concerning II. I joined II mostly for the getaways, and I have only been looking for Marriotts. Does anyone have any info/beliefs of what Marriott will do with their excess inventory? Will they continue to give it to II for getaways or use it for owner benefits in their own internal system?

Jim, I think all Marriott really cares about is keeping their resale prices strong and having enough differences between private resale to ensure a number of people will buy retail. As noted in this thread, price is not the only way to do this. I would assume one could still be a member of II and get those benefits you mention. The things you'd likely give up include the special internal search first including the reduced fee and the trading priority within Marriott. What you may gain is the ability to trade Marriott without belonging to II and possibly a points based system at some point. We'll have to see what the specifics are if and when they happen.

 

[PerryM]

We did it!

How do you figure that you can get your money back after 5-7 years if you purchased from the developer? Is that also fact? With Marriott weeks, you will tend to keep more of the value than when purchasing from many other developers, but I haven't seen that you can turn around and recoup your entire investment in 5 - 7 years. Am I missing something here? (You were the one that said that you like to post facts, Dave, that's why I'm asking. I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion?)

The restriction about points on a resale was well-known and part of the information when we purchased our Marriott weeks from the developer (or at resale).

If the rules are changed in a way that makes resales less attractive for units purchased prior to this change, I think that's going to be a problem for current owners and for Marriott. Yes, I understand that any resales already completed would be grandfathered, but that means that there would be new restrictions on resales that weren't in place when we purchased our units.

The ability to do an internal exchange or reserve your own week for occupancy is not a new feature. What's new is that Marriott would be taking it over and possibly adding new restrictions that might effect your resale value.

-David

We broke even and actually made a profit on some of the 5 Marriotts we bought and held 3 to 5 years then sold resale.

The key here is to buy DAY ONE of sales in a new Marriott resort – even HOUR ONE. That is the lowest price Marriott charges – pre-construction pricing.

Marriott resales go for a minimum of 40% discount and on hot holiday weeks that can be just 20%. Marriott resale prices track the current sales price since Marriott has a ROFR on the vast majority of Marriotts. Marriott increases their retail price by 5% per year at the minimum. Therefore 40% discount is made up with 8 years of 5% and because of compounding it really is 7 years.

Hot holiday weeks command a scarcity and the week 52 at MountainSide we sold 4 years after we bought we made a nice profit.

Even buying post construction with the 40% discount from current retail pricing and 5% increase sale price per year is that maximum break even of 7 years. However, you are looking at a lot more money to buy and the risk that Marriott will drop that 40% to 50% and now that’s 10 years.

P.S.
Of course if you can buy resale you take advantage of Marriott's 5% increase in retail price per year when you resell your resale