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Possible scam...has anyone heard of resorttransfergroupsales, apparently of St. Louis, MO

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Grammarhero

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I am more than happy to take that to the powers that be to have that changed. Also, I would like to point out we are not timeshare reps. We do not work for the resorts, which is why we will never ever speak on the resort's behalf. This is exactly why we get estoppels.
After hearing both sides of the story, if I was in andre's position, respectfully, I wouldn't move forward as well. I do think had the resort spelled out BOTH alphabetically and numerically (seven dollars and twenty-one cents ($7.21) or seven hundred twenty-one ($721) dollars), andre would have been less cause to be upset, or the dispute wouldn’t have even happened.
 

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After hearing both sides of the story, if I was in andre's position, respectfully, I wouldn't move forward as well. I do think had the resort spelled out BOTH alphabetically and numerically (seven dollars and twenty-one cents ($7.21) or seven hundred twenty-one ($721) dollars), andre would have been less cause to be upset, or the dispute wouldn’t have even happened.
Andrea did not cancel the sale. Mariah did. As it has been stated he wanted us to speak on the resort's behalf. Also, you can clearly see it says $7.21 at the bottom of the estoppel lower right-hand corner.
 

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Andrea did not cancel the sale. Mariah did. As it has been stated he wanted us to speak on the resort's behalf. Also, you can clearly see it says $7.21 at the bottom of the estoppel lower right-hand corner.
Respectfully, I would not rely on such. As a lawyer who has seem colleagues fired over typos or not spelling out dollar/cents values or dates as taught in law school, that $7.21 notation would not mean much for me. Maybe others would move forward, but I wouldn’t.
 

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I responded to this company’s ad on tug for the sale of a grandview unit. I had some additional questions after giving them my drivers license. They (Mariah) refused to give me their phone number so that I can speak to them and get my questions resolved. They said they only do business through email. It was fishy. Needless to say I didn’t pay the PayPal invoice they sent me for the purchase. This was just a month ago. I couldn’t find any info about Mariah or the company on Tug. I did notice now they are selling those grandview units on eBay.
The resale department does not take calls, nor do they make calls. They don't have a phone number for people to call them. Period. Nothing fishy about keeping everything via written communication; so we can prove what actually was and was not said. Which we are more than happy to provide a copy to you in the attachments.
 

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Respectfully, I would not rely on such. As a lawyer who has seem colleagues fired over typos or not spelling out dollar/cents values or dates as taught in law school, that $7.21 notation would not mean much for me. Maybe others would move forward, but I wouldn’t.
Well, that is you. If the estoppels are incorrect that is not on us. We can only list what they give us. With that being said we also require people to sign a general release of liability. We have refunded money because of the wrong information on estoppels.
 

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Just to be fair. I have canceled numerous contracts even after payment if I feel it was not presented correctly. The issue here is Andre really wanted the TS as everyone can clearly see and I can feel he is upset that it did not move forward.

It is not re-sellers fault that the TS company issues inaccurate estopples. Some TS companies are super difficult to deal with as we all know. In business, you have to assess your situation and move with what you feel comfortable with based on available facts. That could mean canceling a deal if need be.
 

Grammarhero

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Well, that is you. If the estoppels are incorrect that is not on us. We can only list what they give us. With that being said we also require people to sign a general release of liability. We have refunded money because of the wrong information on estoppels.
I’m not that difficult of a person. Of seven (7) TS contracts I signed close to completion, six (6) went through. You seem set In your ways. Can’t you just ask the resort to alphabetically and numerically spell out the late dues, just like they teach in law school?
 

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Well, that is you. If the estoppels are incorrect that is not on us. We can only list what they give us. With that being said we also require people to sign a general release of liability. We have refunded money because of the wrong information on estoppels.
I agree that you have to go buy what the resort gives you. If you start altering what the resort supplies as estoppels we’d all cry foul
 

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I’m not that difficult of a person. Of seven (7) TS contracts I signed close to completion, six (6) went through. You seem set In your ways. Can’t you just ask the resort to alphabetically and numerically spell out the late dues, just like they teach in law school?
Like it was stated before, we are happy to talk to our higher-ups to have the form changed. However, resorts will not spell it out unless its on the form. And even then they still may not spell it out.
 

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I agree that you have to go buy what the resort gives you. If you start altering what the resort supplies as estoppels we’d all cry foul
That is one hundred percent accurate. If we feel something is inaccurate we do our best to reach back out to the resorts for clarification, but we don't always get a response.
 

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You guys are not giving me the warm and fuzzies. I won an eBay auction with them. Took them three days to get to me. I let them know I have been burned before and that eBay only gives me 45 days to leave feedback and my credit card company only gives me 60 days to file a dispute. If I don’t have a recorded deed by day 43, I would leave negative feedback. If Wyndham didn’t have the paperwork by day 55, I would file a credit card dispute. I also told her I would be quick to return paperwork. She wasn’t happy that I was holding her accountable. The fact is, she only had a little feedback and after the auction ended, someone left negative feedback. I will take the chance to give them the opportunity to build up their business, but I’m not going to allow them to walk away with my money. The way she acted told me she was not a professional. I’ve worked with multiple resellers. The last one that ticked me off, I let them know I felt like I was being lied to. My experience is detailed on the resale timeline thread. They handled it a lot better then this Maria woman did, and I didn’t even call her a liar. If she decides to cancel the sale, I will leave negative feedback.
 

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I agree that you have to go buy what the resort gives you. If you start altering what the resort supplies as estoppels we’d all cry foul
In this case, the TS reseller company is not using paid, TS resort provided estoppels. TS reseller is using a form she prepared, having the TS resort fill out which may have mistakes, and then calling that filled out form an estoppel.

[Personal comment directed at another poster removed. Discuss the topic, NOT each other. Patience is running thin.]
 
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Grammarhero

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You guys are not giving me the warm and fuzzies. I won an eBay auction with them. Took them three days to get to me. I let them know I have been burned before and that eBay only gives me 45 days to leave feedback and my credit card company only gives me 60 days to file a dispute. If I don’t have a recorded deed by day 43, I would leave negative feedback. If Wyndham didn’t have the paperwork by day 55, I would file a credit card dispute. I also told her I would be quick to return paperwork. She wasn’t happy that I was holding her accountable. The fact is, she only had a little feedback and after the auction ended, someone left negative feedback. I will take the chance to give them the opportunity to build up their business, but I’m not going to allow them to walk away with my money. The way she acted told me she was not a professional. I’ve worked with multiple resellers. The last one that ticked me off, I let them know I felt like I was being lied to. My experience is detailed on the resale timeline thread. They handled it a lot better then this Maria woman did, and I didn’t even call her a liar. If she decides to cancel the sale, I will leave negative feedback.
Given reseller company’s defensiveness, I wonder if I would ever work with them.
 

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Given reseller company’s defensiveness, I wonder if I would ever work with them.

They canceled the sale with a reason of “Out of stock” as the reason. Then said I was extorting them. Classy.

My first email:

“I should probably tell you, that I have been burned by eBay resellers before. I’ve also bought several Wyndham resale contracts through eBay, so this is not my first rodeo. I know how long it takes to record a deed. I know how long it takes for Wyndham to do their part and you have no control over that. eBay gives me 45 days to leave feed back. My credit card company gives me 60 days to file a dispute. If I don’t have a recorded deed in 43 days from the time the auction closed, I leave negative feedback. If Wyndham has not acknowledged receipt of the paperwork by day 55, I will have to open a dispute with my credit card company. Any paperwork you send me will be sent back to you in priority mail the next business day. Any digital signature request that come before 8pm will be handled same day. The sooner you get the paperwork to me, the sooner I get it back to you. I will be out of town February 8th to 11th. If you need something signed and notarized, send it within the next few days

Please send me the estoppel on your next correspondence. Thank you. “

Her response

“I have already sent you the estoppel. Also, I understand you have been burnt in the past, but I won't continue a sell with someone that is going to tell us how we will handle a transfer, or threaten our business. Wyndham is approximately 3-4 months out on a transfer. If you want to continue this transaction, that is fine with me, but I will not have you telling us how we will handle this or by certain days if you don't have something you will cancel. In fact, our general release of liability states that we have our processes and we will not stray from those, or we will cancel a sale. “

Threaten? Sounds like I’m being “Difficult”. Lol. She went right to the defense. Most resellers would have detailed why that wouldn’t work, or would have asked for different terms if that did not work for them. Nope, they went straight on the defense.


My response:

“As I said, I know you have no control over Wyndham’s part. My timeline has nothing to do with Wyndham. Once Wyndham has their paperwork, your part is done, assuming everything is in order. All I am looking for is the recorded deed to be recorded in a timely manner and the paperwork submitted in a timely manner. That’s it. That should not be to difficult to do in 60 days. My expectations are based on the performance of other resellers. They usually have a recorded deed within 30 days and the paperwork submitted within a week or two after that. I’ll proceed with the sale. I just wanted to be upfront with my expectations. I wasn’t looking to cancel or tell you how to do the sale. Like I said, this is not my first rodeo. I know when a reseller is dragging their feet or stringing me along. If you don’t drag your feet, not only will you have positive feedback, I will sing your praises on TUG and the Facebook groups. “


Her response:

“I understand what you are saying, but it is also my job to make sure our processes and policies are followed. We have to request money from accounting, we have to send and receive documents, etc. We even have to send our clients forms from our company they have to sign before we can move forward. Also, we are not open on the weekends or after 5. There have been situations in which we have had a file in our office for 60 days because of our clients, which is not something we can control either. Also, we are required by law to wait 10 days after the purchase agreement has been signed before preparing the new deed and we don't send you a copy of the deed. How we prepare them and send them your signature is not required. So in 43 days, there would be nothing to send you. As I have stated we have our policies and procedures that our legal team has approved, and we will not stray from those.

Now with all that being said, what you have said to me is that if your timeline is not met you will leave us negative feedback that will potentially damage our company. That is not something I can risk. There are many things that can factor into why something has not been done. I also cannot risk you disputing your credit card and getting this property for free. In closing, I don't think we will be moving forward to protect our business and our clients. “

I have had no problems with other resellers sending digital deeds as proof the recording was done. When she went on the defense after that first email, it made me Leery. When she said they don’t send a deed, that increased by leeriness. If I accepted their word that the deed was recorded, I would have no way of knowing if they lied. She would be able to drag it out past my deadline to file a credit card dispute to get my money back if she turned out to be a scammer. The more and more this went on, the more reason she gave me to think she wasn’t planning on following through with the sale. Oh and she did NOT send me an estoppel, like she said she did. Another red flag. The email continued, but this is getting long. I told her if she canceled the sale, I would leave negative feedback. That’s when she went on about extortion.
 

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As usual, you don’t know what you’re talking about. In this case, the TS reseller company is not using paid, TS resort provided estoppels. TS reseller is using a form she prepared, having the TS resort fill out which may have mistakes, and then calling that filled out form an estoppel.
Bottom line is the resort filled out the form. The resort could’ve responded with an estoppel but they didn’t.

I agree that the resort response is laughable in this case. But that’s 100% on the resort

I also think it’s laughable to think that resorts will take estoppel advice or advice on how they respond for information from any resale company not just the one in question.
 

andre10056

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We are not a fraudulent company. We list from the estoppels which come from the resort or management company. andre10056 is upset because he is a current owner and thinks he knows everything there is to know about this resort. He wanted us to speak on behalf of the resort which is something we absolutely cannot do and will not do. Attached is a copy of the estoppel that we sent to the resort and they fill out and return to us. We can only list what the resorts give us. This resort is managed by Good Management. If anything is wrong on the estoppel that is on them not us. $7.21 is clearly not the maintenance fee. That is the amount of the taxes, according to the management company. So yes the maintenance fees ARE current. Andrea was never told Mariah was the owner he was told she was the director of the listing department. And it was never told to you it was to much trouble to send this to our legal department.
 

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Everyone needs to understand that these eBay closing companies do not represent the buyer. These eBay closing companies represents the seller (even though you the buyer may be paying their fee). Imagine that; you pay their closing fees and they don't represent you; what's wrong with that picture?

This is why I always recommend that if you purchase something off of eBay, hire your own closer (such as LT Transfers) and have them handle the transfer on your behalf.

Legitimate sellers will agree to it; the sketchy ones will not as they want to control the buyer, and control the buyer's money. And even control the scam if that is what it really is.

There are plenty of unhappy buyers out there who's transaction(s) have been stretched out for thee months, six months, and even a year, and the seller just disappears with the money with little or no recourse! 99% of these transactions should always be 100% wrapped up in less than 60 days.

Finally please remember this: ALL REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS MUST BE IN WRITING. With that said, your winning eBay bid is not binding until all the paperwork is signed by all parties. This means you can walk away from your winning eBay bid if you believe you are dealing with a sketchy seller. If in doubt get out!




.
 
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Richelle

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With all this said, I think I’m going to wait 24 hours before leaving negative feed back. It’s not something I do lightly. In the 20 years I’ve been an eBayer, I’ve never left negative feedback. If I thought someone scammed me, I reached out to eBay and they would take care of it. The problem here though, is there are no eBay protections for timeshare sales. The only “protections” we have are the feedback system and credit card disputes. Legitimate and professional resellers know that. They would have known where I was coming from in my first email. I think what really set me off was they immediately went on the defense. A real reseller would have been a lot more professional. If that time frame would not work for them, they would have explained why in a professional manner. They wouldn’t have immediately got defensive. Had this seller been professional in their first response to me, I probably would have let them slide or asked to cancel the sale myself. But they didn’t. Everything about them makes me think scam. Maybe they are not, but the multiple eBay IDs with bad feedback ratings, the complaints here, and the unprofessional behavior make me think this is a seller people should steer clear from. I’ll stew on it for a bit. I have 45 days to do it. I may change my mind in that timeframe.
 

Grammarhero

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With all this said, I think I’m going to wait 24 hours before leaving negative feed back. It’s not something I do lightly. In the 20 years I’ve been an eBayer, I’ve never left negative feedback. If I thought someone scammed me, I reached out to eBay and they would take care of it. The problem here though, is there are no eBay protections for timeshare sales. The only “protections” we have are the feedback system and credit card disputes. Legitimate and professional resellers know that. They would have known where I was coming from in my first email. I think what really set me off was they immediately went on the defense. A real reseller would have been a lot more professional. If that time frame would not work for them, they would have explained why in a professional manner. They wouldn’t have immediately got defensive. Had this seller been professional in their first response to me, I probably would have let them slide or asked to cancel the sale myself. But they didn’t. Everything about them makes me think scam. Maybe they are not, but the multiple eBay IDs with bad feedback ratings, the complaints here, and the unprofessional behavior make me think this is a seller people should steer clear from. I’ll stew on it for a bit. I have 45 days to do it. I may change my mind in that timeframe.
I gave the TS reseller a chance to explain and change her practices. She responded with arrogance. That is all I need to know not to work with the seller.
 

andre10056

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We are not a fraudulent company. We list from the estoppels which come from the resort or management company. andre10056 is upset because he is a current owner and thinks he knows everything there is to know about this resort. He wanted us to speak on behalf of the resort which is something we absolutely cannot do and will not do. Attached is a copy of the estoppel that we sent to the resort and they fill out and return to us. We can only list what the resorts give us. This resort is managed by Good Management. If anything is wrong on the estoppel that is on them not us. $7.21 is clearly not the maintenance fee. That is the amount of the taxes, according to the management company. So yes the maintenance fees ARE current. Andrea was never told Mariah was the owner he was told she was the director of the listing department. And it was never told to you it was to much trouble to send this to our legal department.
I just got home to see that there has been a bit of activity on this thread today. Since I seem to be the subject matter of some of it, let me respond.

First of all, in reference to my allegedly being "upset" because I'm "a current owner and think(s) (I) know(s) everything there is to know about this resort", in what context do you think I communicated that? Did I brag about knowing what the room layout was? Or how big the pool is? No. The only time I conveyed that information to Mariah was as follows: I'm an owner at the resort and can find out the amount owed on the unit in minutes. Just tell me the unit number or owner's name or whatever identifying information." That's all. My concern about what was actually owed could have been cleared up in minutes.

Mariah's response: We don't provide that information to anyone.

Is that done by all timeshare sales companies? I don't know myself. But maybe others have had different experiences.

I had a concern about the MFs owed, past and present. I wanted to confirm with the resort. At no time, did I ask YOU to "speak for the resort". In fact, what does that even mean? In any case, I did not want you to "speak FOR the resort" (whatever that means) but wanted to speak TO the resort. And THAT you did not allow.

So, fine, Mariah said past due was $7.21 and not $721. The attached estoppel that you apparently allege was prepared by the resort and sent to you STILL looks like $7.21 to me. Maybe it's my eyesight...but I don't see the decimal point on even YOUR attached form that appears above. And now that you claim that, I'll send the estoppel that I got from you to the owners' services and ask if that form was filled out by them, (which has zero identifying information as to the unit number, owner's name). Not saying they didn't, but that's about as unprofessional as can be.

The maintenance fees are current? Really? Because Mariah said she has nothing to do with that and couldn't tell me if the responsibility to pay this year's MFs would be mine. But I question that the ad placed on Jan 14 was accurate in that regard (2020 already due and payable). I found this out days after Mariah had cancelled, but $469.40 are 2019's MFs, not 2020's. So there's no way that 2020 MF could be paid if you apparently didn't (and I assume still don't) know what 2020 MFs are. And, by the way, when I questioned Mariah if those MFs were 2019's or 2020's, she said she "just got them so they're 2020". No. They're not. And the resort would not have filled out that form that way as to 2020 MFs.

And. if you're not Mariah, how do YOU know what was said? Mariah most certainly DID, in response to my saying, "I'd like to speak to the owner", tell me she was the owner (and until reading this just now, that's what I believed to be true). Moreover, I did ask to speak to legal...and I already relayed how I waited on the phone and ultimately heard a dial tone.

So, please, if Mariah had been a little, a tiny bit, able to recognize a customer's concerns, particularly in light of the $7.21 issue, she could have in minutes satisfied me. But instead she said "you're too much trouble".

And if your intent in coming onto TUG was to clear your name, I think all you've done is dig your hole a little deeper.
 

Grammarhero

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Bottom line is the resort filled out the form. The resort could’ve responded with an estoppel but they didn’t.

I agree that the resort response is laughable in this case. But that’s 100% on the resort

I also think it’s laughable to think that resorts will take estoppel advice or advice on how they respond for information from any resale company not just the one in question.
I don’t think it’s 100 percent on the resort. The closing company gets some blame. For the first time, LT is letting a transfer proceed without an estoppel. You know why? Because I had the resort type everything that is normally in an estoppel in an email, then forwarded to LT as a screenshot.

For all we know, the closing company could have put a dot in the form to make the late dues appear $7.21. Closing company could have demanded more precise info.
 

theo

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No dog in this fight and no opinion on this matter but as a (former) owner at Coconut Mallory I think it's a blessing to not own there.
Unless bringing a boat and using their adjoining docks, there is (in my personal opinion) no worse location anywhere in Key West and I think the staff there may actually still appear together in a group photo in the dictionary ---- right beside the word "surly". ;)
 
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samara64

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I really do not understand the buyers being so upset. It is a free world and you do not have to move forward with a transaction if you feel it is not worth your Time, Money, Effort, Peace of mind etc.

Approaching a seller with threats like I will leave a negative feedback or dispute a CC charge, is not the best way to start a business transaction. You will get the other party to act aggressively as well.

You always have to balance risk with opportunity. We all know Mariah has some nice TS units that some of us want. Yes there is risk that it does not transfer in time as with any TS reseller, You understand you are getting a TS for free that someone spent close to $30K to initially get.

If you look at it from the seller side, they are selling these items for few dollars. If the first buyer walks away, a new one will come in if it is a good TS. I guess there is no real reward for them to fight with a buyer for few dollars.

Richelle, I understand that you got burned bad by some bad re-sellers recording wrong deeds in your name and few other issues that I think you mentioned before. I bought from at least 10 different eBay TS sellers and never had an issue. I always ask for estopples before sending money and if I feel not safe, I normally pass which happened 3 times. I indicate to the seller that I know what the process is and follow up every 2 weeks to see how we are doing.
 
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Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 154k & Bali Hai 105k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HVC South Bend 1/1
@Resortsales we gave you a fair chance to tell your side of the story. Instead, you just showed yourself to be a pompous prude.
 
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