Poll - Is TUG too negative?

[TUGBrian]

So this recent post on our facebook page started an interesting "discussion"

https://www.facebook.com/TimeshareUsersGroup

While I firmly believe that if TUG isnt making folks that work for the Timeshare Industry unhappy, we probably arent doing a good job.

However I would like to see (or confirm) my opinion on the subject.

check out the comments on the thread about "worst timeshare sales presentations" and let me know your thoughts.

 

[rhonda]

Brian,

I don't have a Facebook account -- so I can't see any of the comments on the page you've linked above. Might you post a snippet or paraphrase here so we can review for comment?
Thx!

 

[TUGBrian]

its essentially an individual (who works in the Timeshare Industry) who claims TUG does nothing but post negative comments about Timeshares to specifically drive down the resale prices...at some sort of profit to TUG. His exact quote was "monetizing owners misery"

basically he was complaining that all TUG says is "developer sales are bad, timeshare salesmen are bad, HOAs are incompetent, etc etc" while never saying anything positive about Timeshares.

I personally consider every "I found TUG in time to rescind and buy resale" as an overwhelmingly positive success story, however being in the industry...he clearly does not.


It did however make me wonder if regular owners shared his opinion (I honestly could give two craps about how the industry views TUG)....my only concern is how owners view us =)

I firmly believe that anyone (owner, or looking to buy) should know every detail about ownership prior to making such a financial "investment". noone will ever change that way of thinking for me, but perhaps im not expressing it in the best way and thus seemingly always negative?

 

[TUGBrian]

few of the choice comments from said individual:

Does it not concern you that by constantly puking on timeshare that you're negatively affecting owners' resale values? Something to consider...

ug, that's the problem. I'm been FB friends with your page for over a year, and so far, here's what I've learned: Developers are bad. Sales reps are bad. Timeshare has no resale value. Resale companies are bad. Finance companies are bad. HOA's are mismanaged. Owners are good. The problem with this thinking is that the whole industry is symbiotic i.e. if you don't have new sales, and if resale companies aren't selling, you have attrition and then skyrocketing maintenance fees. Voila...timeshare has no resale value. I'm only suggesting that you might want to consider putting out SOME positive info about the product because if I was considering timeshare, there's NO WAY that I would buy one (INCLUDING your $1.00 resale) after reading the consistently negative stuff on your page.

You call it truth, I call it monetizing misery. Listen, if you weren't allegedly trying to help people sell their timeshares, your "education" angle would be a lot more palatable and believable. If, in fact, you ARE trying to assist people in their resale efforts, vomiting all over the product isn't doing anyone any favours...that's all I'm saying. What exactly do you think you've "educated" the public about? Take some time and review the body of posts from TUG from the last year...I can't recall a single post outlining ANY of the positive attributes of timeshare ownership. You may not be responsible for the crappy resale market (and you definitely aren't), but you're NOT helping your cause, and you're CERTAINLY not helping the cause of your members who are eagerly trying to sell.

then he started getting nasty/abrasive and tossing out insults...not that I was surprised.

 

[rhonda]

The most simply response:
When I first joined TUG I had only one timeshare. After a few years of steady participation on TUG I owned five different timeshare products.

For whatever reason, TUG seemed to increase my desire for Timeshare Ownership ... forming an addiction of sorts. I think this addiction is supported by the Educational component as I've learned how to get the most use out of what I owned.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I see a lot of honesty on TUG from helpful folks who do love timeshare and don't appreciate the high prices developers charge.

But I also know how many times people have said that developers are a good thing, because they build new timeshares, and if there were no developers, what timeshares would we buy on the resale market.

It's the developers who devalue their own product by taking benefits away upon resale. This hurts the developer purchaser because the loss of benefits devalues the product. No one to blame but themselves:

No Gold or Platinum benefits, not even Club Wyndham for resale Wyndham owners; no Staroptions from voluntary resorts will transfer in resale; no Travelshare with WorldMark to transfer; no parking privileges for Grand Peak 7 to resale buyers; no day use for resale buyers; No Destination Club conversion for resale buyers; no cruises for DVC resale buyers with their points; Shell has some benefit I don't care a bit for, which won't go to resale buyers. The list goes on.

<-------------------I love timeshare.

The developers hate their own product.

 

[TUGBrian]

tis one of my bigger arguments as well.

on one hand, if TUG really had an impact on the market at all, developer sales woudl dry up overnight vs the 6 or so BILLION dollars a year they seem to do.

on the other, if there was actual resale value in the product, developers would be more than happy to take back all weeks to resell again to a willing owner.

It doesnt matter a hill of beans whats said on TUG (IMO) until the fact that there are far more people looking to sell resale, than those looking to buy resale.

 

[Passepartout]

This one timeshare industry shill absolutely DOES NOT speak for the majority of timeshare owners. Add me to the list of people who was not a timeshare owner when I found TUG. I specifically joined TUG to educate myself BEFORE making my first TS purchase, and have gone on to make a total of 3.

Does this sound like someone who says nothing positive about the attributes of timeshares? I don't think so.

That we (and I am certainly one of the more vocal) shout from the rooftops to 'BUY RESALE, SAVE THOUSANDS' is not bashing timeshare as a concept at all. What it's saying though is that the developers need to find a way to add value to the resale product. To use an automotive analogy, there HAS to be a trade-in value to timeshares to buoy up the prices on both ends of the ownership. You wouldn't go out and buy an Escalade, if the minute you drive it off the lot, it is worth exactly what a used '65 VW Bug is worth. ZERO.

If developers want to see some equalization in prices, and a whole lot more support from TUGgers, buy back deeds from owners at, say, half of what people paid the original developer. Developers used the ruse of 'you can pass your ownership to your heirs' as a sales gimmick. Only they, through keeping BOD's and HOA's loaded with shills, wrote into the bylaws that MFs increase to a level that the timeshare is no longer an 'asset' to be passed to heirs, but a liability. An expense that can't be sold, because it has far more cost than value.

No, we don't bash timeshares, but we abhor the practices of the developers who lure the unwary into a sale they can't afford. Then they have the gall to rag on us for offering buyers the education that should have come from the salesman, rather than a good hoodwinking.

Jim Ricks

 

[hypnotiq]

Add me to the list of people who was not a timeshare owner when I found TUG. I specifically joined TUG to educate myself BEFORE making my first TS purchase

This sums me up as well. I went on a tour @ PBSB when in Mexico. Afterwards, the concept interested me, so I did research and found TUG.
Lurked for a year+ before deciding to pull the trigger and try out the waters. Found the system I liked best and have been happy with the knowledge I've learned here in the process.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think that is Michael Coley's story as well. Maybe BocaBum99's story too. Went to a timeshare presentation and became intrigued with the resale vs. developer price.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Ironically, when the developer devalues resale, they hurt the original buyer who paid the high price to own. Their product is worth nearly $0 No wonder we are cynical of the developer purchase.

 

[DaveNV]

I'm one more who didn't own before finding TUG. I've since purchased six, (all resale), and sold four, (all via TUG), leaving me with the two I currently enjoy owning. I had *ALWAYS* avoided anything related to timeshares, because I didn't understand how it all worked. All I'd ever seen was the Developer pitchmen trying to get me to spend thousands on a "vacation property" I wasn't interested in owning.

TUG came along, opened my eyes, helped me to see how I could dip my toe in the timeshare ownership waters without losing my foot, and I've enjoyed every minute of it since. I have learned a TON here, and I can unequivocally state that if I hadn't found TUG, I'd never have bought anything.

Your FB guy is full of sour grapes because TUG is causing a dent in his wallet.

Dave

 

[SMHarman]

I'm one more who didn't own before finding TUG. I've since purchased six, (all resale), and sold four, (all via TUG), leaving me with the two I currently enjoy owning. I had *ALWAYS* avoided anything related to timeshares, because I didn't understand how it all worked. All I'd ever seen was the Developer pitchmen trying to get me to spend thousands on a "vacation property" I wasn't interested in owning.

TUG came along, opened my eyes, helped me to see how I could dip my toe in the timeshare ownership waters without losing my foot, and I've enjoyed every minute of it since. I have learned a TON here, and I can unequivocally state that if I hadn't found TUG, I'd never have bought anything.

Your FB guy is full of sour grapes because TUG is causing a dent in his wallet.

Dave

Exactly, and I jumped in rather than dipping a toe in spending 5 figures on the first resale unit at a resort where the developer has managed to not crucify the resale product as it still has value.
HOA keeping MF at the lower end of the SVO collection, mandatory SO etc.
The math of buying developer never really made much sense to me, even with the inflation proofing and so on it basically felt like a massive prepayment of future vacation.
I was directed to TUG by a family friend who owns at WKORV and learned then bought.
IMHO it would be great if SVO made the entire resale transactions mandatory. It would give all current owners an equal product (would help their bottom line with all those extra SVO fees) and mean that resale values would increase. That would hurt me (thinking of buying more), but this is from the altruistic place that is the developers hurt resale, not the new buyers.
Taking the escalade analogy further, the escalade can be taken back to the dealer, they can look at a price in the blue book and give you a trade in or a buy out. Does not happen for a timeshare.
Actually if you could turn the timeshare resale market into something like the used car market that would be great. You would have CPO timeshares coming from the developer, you would have car max style warehouses of no haggle blue book priced, you would have other dealers and you would have individual sales. You would also have the different firms offering competition. I'll buy you out of that Marriott TS if you want to get into this Westin StJohn Timeshare.

 

[slip]

Another non-owner until after I found a TUG. I heard about timeshares in the
Early '80's but couldn't afford anything then and could never see how it made
Financial sense. Fast forward 30 years, the kids are gone and we wanted to
Travel more. Looked into timeshares and found TUG and resales. Researched the
Best fit and after a lot of questions and help from TUG members, I've been
Happy ever since.

People don't like to hear the truth sometimes and they will do anything they
Can to downplay it.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

If I hadn't fount TUG I probably would be puking on timeshares every time I had the opportunity.

Because I found TUG I've bought more than I would have otherwise, sold others I bought, and have changed the mind of several others who were really sour on timeshares. It's just my little corner of the world, but in the corner I've improved the image of timeshare.

As to our developer friend, it's certainly in his interest to not have people coming into a sales presentation being more open to the benefits of timesharing. That provides a better base on which he can try to sell his product than to have to spend most of the sales presentation trying to erase the negative preconceptions of timesharing.

 

[Rascalsmom]

I found TUG after purchasing a crummy Mexican timeshare. TUGgers taught me that it really was crummy, but not completely unusable. I'll be enjoying a week at DVC next month on an RCI trade for a couple of those weeks. If I hadn't found TUG, I would have gotten very little value for that purchase, because it's at an all-inclusive resort, where it is very expensive to take my whole family.

TUG posts taught me how the systems work. It became a fun hobby. I picked up 3 weeks at smart prices, and when I realized I now had more vacation than I could use, gave one away to an appreciative TUGger. He was nice enough to let me know he's already booked Sedona and Hawaii from the one freebie week I gave him. What's not to like?

All I know is that the more I read TUG, the farther my vacation ownership stretches....

 

[falmouth3]

People on TUG are definitely not anti-timeshare. We love our timeshare vacations and we exchange great information on how to maximize our usage. We also share tips on how to plan a fantastic vacation. No complaints here.

 

[shoeie]

I think this is preposterous! I haven't even been here that long, and in my short time I've found that the vast majority of the folks here really enjoy owning their timeshares (myself included). Some bought retail, some bought resale, some have some of everything, but this place has been a wealth of information.

W and I almost bought from a developer about 10 years ago in Virginia Beach. We actually suffered through the presentation (all for an absurd $50 gift certificate to a restaurant), were totally sold at taking our kids (that we didn't have) on all these great vacations, but we said we wanted to think it over. The salesman actually wrote down his cell number and the final price we agreed to. A few hours later I went back down to the sales office to sign the contracts, and they said they made a mistake and the price was actually $3K more! So, luckily I didn't need to rescind, because I stomped out right then. :hysterical:

But the concept to TS intrigued me.

Fast forward, a few years ago I purchased 2 MVC weeks resale and converted to the DC program (before I ever found TUG), by doing my own research about how much value there was in resale. But I've learned more in a few weeks here than I learned in a year of doing my own research prior to purchasing my MVC!

Knowledge is power. Those that don't want you to have it only have their own self interest in mind.

 

[alwysonvac]

I think the OP was talking about the TUG Facebook page (not the TUG forums).

JMHO....I visited the TUG facebook site for the first time today. I can see how someone who only visits the TUG facebook page might view it as negative. However the TUG facebook page only provides a limited view of everything we discuss on the various forums. Since this guy works in the industry I won't take his comments to heart


For those who don't have facebook access, here are the posts on the TUG facebook page from August & Sept ...

6 hours ago.Worst Timeshare Sales Presentation you have ever been to? http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196456

September 21.TUG saves 70+ Timeshare owners, roughly $700,000 dollars...and thats just those who post on the forums and tell us! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196108

September 19.New owner finds TUG in time to cancel new Timeshare Purchase and save $32,000! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196001

September 15.Bedbugs at your Timeshare? Bet all of you check your mattresses after reading this thread! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195478

September 13.Is Exchanging your Timeshare for a Cruise worth it? It Depends! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195764

September 11.Another member finds TUG in time to Cancel Timeshare purchase and save $30,000! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190633

September 9.Lowball Timeshare Rental Offers? Insulting or not? http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195382

September 6.New Timeshare Advice Article: What is a Timeshare Shill? http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_shills.html

September 4.Two TUGGERS save tens of thousands of dollars in a single post by finding TUG in time to buy resale! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194688

September 2.Discussion and list of Timeshare Resorts that are geared towards children! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194960

August 30.TUG lists the most rented and sold Timeshares each year since 2008! http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_sales_rental_history.html

August 27.Westgate Timeshare Cancellation Nightmare, always know your rights - never believe what a salesman tells you without confirming! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194569

August 26.Timeshare Resale Buyers Checklist! A must read article for all those considering buying a Resale Timeshare! http://www.tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_purchase_checklist.html

August 23.New Timeshare owner finds TUG in time to cancel purchase and save $22,500! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193914

August 21.TUG Member Testimonials! Helping Timeshare owners for nearly 20 years...sometimes they take some time and give their thanks back! http://www.tug2.net/comments.html

August 19.How do you rank or "Tier" Timeshare Resorts? http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194148

August 16.TUG Saves new owner $11,000 on new Timeshare purchase...the resale market strikes again! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193176

August 13.Washington State goes after large Timeshare PCC/Viking Ship operation: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193384

August 11.VA Atty General finally warns residents about Timeshare Resale scams, better late than never! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193732

August 6.TUGGER saves $18,000 on new Wyndham Timeshare purchase by finding TUG in time to discover the resale market! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193201

August 3.Florida Cracking down on Timeshare Resale Scams! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193365

August 1.Folks need to know about the resale market BEFORE going to Timeshare sales presentations so they arent taken by lies like this! http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192811

 

[Sandy]

I found TUG long ago

We bought our first timeshare in 1980, so we are "old heads." Nobody had ever heard of timesharing. But we were lucky in the scheme of things. We bought on a trip to the Bahamas, a regular, converted apartment, and joined RCI. We began to trade.

Our first trade was to HHI, next to the Outer Banks of NC. While in the Outer banks, we bought a "blue week." Five hundred dollars or so. Some of you may recall, those off season weeks that nobody wanted, but the developers had to sell. The price was right, and we found out how to deposit early and get some amazing trades.

We were hooked. So far, we had not spent much money, although the first purchase was on a payment plan.

Over the years, we found TUG, learned more, and bought more. Sold/gave away some units to friends to get them into the game. Still not much money spent. We were lucky.

By joining and reading TUG, we learned about the first South African timeshare deals and added to that blue week and our original Bahama unit. Never even went to the Bahama unit. Wow, what an insight on supply and demand. With that little South African "hut" we were able to trade into fabulous gold crown RCI resorts on the cheap. Now we were not just lucky, we were educated.

Next, also through TUG, we learned about the cheap points available in Australia (anyone remember that deal?). We jumped onto this and learned about RCI point system.

When we were in Hawaii, we saw a resale office and paid the most we EVER paid for a week, $6500. Still, we were so far ahead of many others and for use timesharing never had a bad name. Other deals came along, and we benefited many times.

However, we fully realize that much of the bad rap on timesharing comes from folks who spend thousands of $$ they maybe cannot afford, to get monthly payments for years, and who never learn how to travel, enjoy, and exchange what they have. Heck, forget exchanging, we know people who never even USE their timeshares.

Our kids, upon going to a hotel for the first time after vacationing ONLY in timeshares, quipped, "Where are OUR rooms? Where is the kitchen? Where is the washer/dryer?" Spoiled? I don't think so. They just got used to travelling as timesharing kids at a young age.

Fast forward today. Everybody has heard about timesharing. But most who have heard have that negative opinion. IMHO TUG has done a fabulous service, and many if not most Tuggers have multiple timesharing units.

 

[ronparise]

Not only is TUG not negative, I find it positively positive

This is a community of timeshare owners. We like this stuff and we use it and we encourage others to join with us...(just dont pay retail prices)

 

[weasey31]

What a fabulous place TUG has been to us. I have found myself to be addicted to this site and have educated myself with some much real fact finding information about TS.
Thanks to all the members that have helped me learn the truth about real vacationing and sharing your stories.
You do not need to pay $thousands of dollars under a high pressure sale when you can find the same thing on ebay!!!
Going to a TS presentation?? Stick with your gut and say Nooooooo and just walk away with the gifts. You will feel good after it is all over instead of buyer's remorse settling in after the dust settles.

 

[Luvtoride]

Yet Another reason NOT to be on Facebook

I'm often chided by family and friends because I'm NOT on Facebook. I have many reasons why I won't "join" FB, but here is yet another one. Apparently the FB "view" of TUG does not contain much of the GREAT and positive information and educational materials that TUG and the BBS contains. Facebook seems to be like a Reader's Digest (no criticism of RD intended) for news and information. There is only limited info on FB to whet the appetite as people don't spend much time reading posts and articles there.
What prevented this TS industry salesperson from coming to the TUG website and BBS itself and checking it out? If he were smart, he would pay the modest fee to become a member and REALLY learn and understand what Timeshare owners are thinking and learning about the industry!
I wish I had found TUG sooner, but since I did, I have bought a resale week to go along with my Marriott purchases, which I am quite happy about, despite the higher price I paid.
I constantly refer people I know and who are interested in my Timeshare experience and learning more about them to TUG!
Brian

 

[TUGBrian]

All I do on the facebook page is post articles from the newsletters...which are mostly if not all forum threads.

 

[momeason]

I found TUG right after I rescinded a timeshare purchase.I have purchased 2 and sold one since. TUG is wonderful!