Poll - Is TUG too negative?

[Beefnot]

TUG changed my life. I have since bought several, sold one, still own two, and also own a boatload of points in one system. I can now travel in luxury and comfort with my family, and still have a pretty penny in my pocket from rental income after it is all said and done. I love timeshares.

The only real negative tone I have seen on TUG is condescension by some against newbies for naively buying from the developer.

 

[SmithOp]

I'm the very appreciative TUGer that got the week from Rascalsmom, and when it is no longer a good fit for me you can bet I'll pass it on to another TUGer. Of course, she has right of first refusal taking it back.

I drank the HGVC kool aid twice before finding TUG, and have since added two resale and the freebie. I have learned so much from this community on how to best use not only my HGVC but several of the other developer systems.

Is it too negative? No, it just reflects society, there are some TUGers that bang the same drum and become tiresome, but they go on my ignore list. Just put this Facebook tool on your ignore list Brian.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[PearlCity]

Brian, I think you need to just delete and block that guy. Seriously. Resale values are driven by market demand. If timeshare developers put out a product that would maintain it's value, it wouldn't drop in value. Tug has been amazing in teaching me how I can afford to go on amazing vacations with my family of 5 --of which would have been next to impossible because most HOTEL rooms only accomodate 4. and if they accomodate 5, it comes with a tiny little mini fridge that results in me running to the market to accomdate my kids hefty appetite for milk (They go through THREE GALLONS a week).

The community here is extremely helpful and has been a great place for me to learn. Since being active on tug, I've bought three resale weeks at prices I never thought I could afford. Love TUG. That guy on Facebook just needs to go away.

 

[MichaelColey]

To me, TUG is overwhelmingly positive. (And I mean that in a good way.) Members are helpful, polite, and honest. Many posts are questions (which are answered) and many of the others are relaying positive experiences and tips. There are negative posts, but most are justified (and helpful and honest). And the ones that aren't justified are pretty transparent and get called out. TUG is an incredible resource/community for timeshare owners.

I've been here a relatively short time, but I feel like I've made many true friends here, learned TONS, and given back a bit.

I can see how the perception might be different from someone within the industry, because quite honestly most developer purchases are bad, many timeshare salesmen are dishonest (at best), and some HOAs are incompetent.

 

[ace2000]

I think we need to forget about positive vs. negative and focus on the facts. If I came to TUG asking for advice that's what I would want to hear. I'd like to ask that guy what he would want to hear if he was the one seeking advice on purchasing a timeshare?

 

[geekette]

its essentially an individual (who works in the Timeshare Industry) who claims TUG does nothing but post negative comments about Timeshares to specifically drive down the resale prices...at some sort of profit to TUG. His exact quote was "monetizing owners misery"

basically he was complaining that all TUG says is "developer sales are bad, timeshare salesmen are bad, HOAs are incompetent, etc etc" while never saying anything positive about Timeshares.

I personally consider every "I found TUG in time to rescind and buy resale" as an overwhelmingly positive success story, however being in the industry...he clearly does not.


It did however make me wonder if regular owners shared his opinion (I honestly could give two craps about how the industry views TUG)....my only concern is how owners view us =)

I firmly believe that anyone (owner, or looking to buy) should know every detail about ownership prior to making such a financial "investment". noone will ever change that way of thinking for me, but perhaps im not expressing it in the best way and thus seemingly always negative?

I share your viewpoint.

If Tug were The Market Maker, things would be much different for all of us.

Too negative? NO! Pro-Owner, Anti-Sleaze. That is POSITIVE!!

 

[pedro47]

Tug's is not to negative in my opinion. The tone of the some of the poster's has change over the years.

I do missed the many posts by DaveM and Fern.

 

[rhonda]

Brian - how do we differentiate this question from "TUG Forums" (this site) vs "TUG's Facebook page"? Conversations above seem to indicate that the noted concern may be focused on the FB page not this Forum?

 

[gnorth16]

I research everything I buy, so why would it be any different for a timeshare?
If "the truth" is sugar coated, it really isn't the truth and members are doing a disservice to those coming here for information. Be tactful, but honesty is always the best policy.

 

[b2bailey]

We bought two Marriott timeshares at full price BEFORE we found Tug. The reason they convinced us to buy the first one (Newport Coast, preconstruction) was the appeal of turning the week into Marriott Rewards points so we could use them 'anywhere' we wanted. Buying resale would not have given us the option of MR points. Was it a high price to pay? Yes. Would I do it again? No. Am I 'sorry' for doing it the first time? NO.

 

[TUGBrian]

Well, every post on the facebook page is a link to a popular forum thread (one that actually has conversation and discussion in it).

 

[ace2000]

Well, every post on the facebook page is a link to a popular forum thread (one that actually has conversation and discussion in it).

Ah, so you're the problem then. Why are you only linking to the "negative" threads?



kidding.

 

[DaveNV]

Brian, it seems the guy complaining is one of those social-media hangers on who doesn't have time to follow up with fact-checking, for example, by researching the full TUG site. It's easier to browse down a selected list of posts on a FB page, and then complain about it, as if that was the last word on all things TUG does.

Like so many others these days, they complain because they CAN, and not because they SHOULD. If it cost them the time to write a snail mail letter, and pay for a stamp, they wouldn't say a word.

If TUG was such a naysayer, and was such a bad influence, it wouldn't receive such high praise from unsolicited media sources, magazines, and TV news shows.

Consider the source, and move on.

Dave

 

[Carol C]

I think we need to forget about positive vs. negative and focus on the facts. If I came to TUG asking for advice that's what I would want to hear. I'd like to ask that guy what he would want to hear if he was the one seeking advice on purchasing a timeshare?

I'm not on FB but I'd like someone to also ask him how many timeshares he himself has bought from developers. Hopefully I won't "vomit" when I hear the answer to that! :rofl:

 

[richardm]

Tug is simply a reflection of the industry..

It's not surprising that resort employees and management also view Tug as dangerous.. The fact that Tug has survived and even thrived over the years is quite amazing! Other bulletin boards have been shut down by the industry- so I'm grateful every day that Tug is still a resource for timeshare owners!
Tug may at times read with a negative slant, but that is more a by-product of a tarnished industry than intentional sabotage.

Unfortunately- most timeshare upper management is top heavy with former sales weasels- individuals who have little respect for the product and even less for the consumers who buy it..

On the front line sales- the working environment is not one of customer service but rather of fierce competition. It's a contest of wills for the salesperson to "make the sale"- not simply allow the merits of the product to sell itself.. [Disney is a notable exception!]... This ultra-aggressive mentality is brought to the boardroom when these same sharks are promoted, which in turn impacts every facet of the industry..

It's also true that these same personalities often have a difficult time taking responsibility for failure. The super-ego of the sales weasel can't handle insecurity, so it's easier to blame any failures on an outside force..

 

[Passepartout]

The FaceBook complainer simply doesn't have the cojones to whine directly on TUG. He feels that FB is an 'independent' site where he doesn't have to register, and therefore has a feeling of a certain amount of anonymity. Like a CB 'flamer' of the past.

What it REALLY shows is that he's a coward who isn't strong enough in his convictions to defend them in open forum.

Do not lose a moment's sleep over this clown.

Jim

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm always uncomfortable with timeshare developers/salespeople and the folks who buy from them being labeled as, "liars, suckers, koolaid drinkers, sleaze," etc. I think it makes for an environment which isn't welcoming or receptive at all to those in the industry, and sometimes only slightly more welcoming to folks who buy from them. So, in that respect, I guess I agree with the timeshare guy who spoke up on FB to say that from his perspective TUG is a negative place.

I voted the second option because IMO this place is the best place hands-down to learn the "truth" about timeshares, definitely the best resource for timeshare owners. But my answer really isn't a "no" answer because in fact there is a negative tone on TUG towards developers/salespeople. And the third option is less applicable, because I don't think we could say any more positive things than we already do about the timeshares themselves.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I honestly don't see how TUG could be positive towards both owners and those in the industry. Our end results are at odds with each other for the most part, aren't they? They want to make a business profit, we want to enjoy luxury vacations at the lowest prices possible.

 

[Passepartout]

OK, so Susan, when someone finds us and says they have just endured 6-8 hours of torture at a Westgate presentation and was browbeaten into buying something they don't understand and can't afford and isn't right for them, what should we say?

Gosh, newbie, that salesman has to eat, too. And his kids need shoes, just like yours do. So suck it up and get over it. Life isn't fair. Make those payments, and keep the economy going. It's up to you. You can do it, Rah, rah, rah!

Just because they sell a product that you can buy for 5% or less than you paid, and the outfit you bought from has a less-than-F BBB rating, and they refuse to buy back resales at any price- including accepting those that owners want to give back FREE, they are REALLY nice guys.

Welcome to TUG!

I don't think so.......

Jim

 

[SueDonJ]

OK, so Susan, when someone finds us and says they have just endured 6-8 hours of torture at a Westgate presentation and was browbeaten into buying something they don't understand and can't afford and isn't right for them, what should we say?

Gosh, newbie, that salesman has to eat, too. And his kids need shoes, just like yours do. So suck it up and get over it. Life isn't fair. Make those payments, and keep the economy going. It's up to you. You can do it, Rah, rah, rah!

Just because they sell a product that you can buy for 5% or less than you paid, and the outfit you bought from has a less-than-F BBB rating, and they refuse to buy back resales at any price- including accepting those that owners want to give back FREE, they are REALLY nice guys.

Welcome to TUG!

I don't think so.......

Jim

I don't think so either! I'm right there in line with everyone else on TUG who answers those questions with, "Rescind while/if you can, stick around and learn what you need to know to make an informed decision, and welcome to TUG!"

I just don't understand why we have to denigrate the developers/salespeople at the same time for doing their jobs. Not all developers are the Devil's Spawn, and not all salespeople lie to the heavens in order to make a sale.

 

[TUGBrian]

While i don't think anyone is foolish enough to think that all salesman should be painted with the same "slimeball" brush....it would be equally foolish to assume that the one you are talking to at any given time is a saint =)

This industry didn't earn its black eyes overnight...while I wont argue for a minute that things haven't changed for the better over the years at many resorts...there are still far too many stories we hear each and every week that would lead me to believe the shady tricks are still being used often enough to warn people about them!

People should have the information presented to them so they can make an informed decision. I would much rather an owner know about these "controversial" issues and be able to say "wow, im glad someone warned me about that before I fell for it" or even "man im glad my resort isnt like that" vs going around completely oblivious to the fact that it exists.

 

[Passepartout]

I just don't understand why we have to denigrate the developers/salespeople at the same time for doing their jobs. Not all developers are the Devil's Spawn, and not all salespeople lie to the heavens in order to make a sale.

How do you tell the difference? If the developers would just follow the lead of auto makers and dealers, by accepting trades. Or resales. Or repo's. SOMEBODY needs to publish a 'Kelly Blue Book' of timeshares to give people an idea of a REAL resale value of what they own. We all know that timeshares are NOT 'Real Estate'. They depreciate. But they don't NEED to depreciate at 100% on the first day. Sure, all timeshare management companies are not created equal. Some are relatively honest, and sell the steak, while some just sell the sizzle.

We accept the FACT that ALL timeshares are USED. The developers need to do the same. They are selling exactly the same thing as a reseller. Or an owner. The common denominator is the quality of the management company. If a property is well managed it should- and will- maintain it's value. Poorly managed, that is to say those who take the MF's to pay stockholders or BOD's salaries instead of making the properties attractive to owners need unscrupulous sales people to churn the inventory of units.

Until an honest and open resale market is developed, and it is controlled by desperate sellers and eBay viking ship marketing goes to jail, it won't change.

Just my $.02

Jim

 

[ace2000]

I don't think so either! I'm right there in line with everyone else on TUG who answers those questions with, "Rescind while/if you can, stick around and learn what you need to know to make an informed decision, and welcome to TUG!"

I just don't understand why we have to denigrate the developers/salespeople at the same time for doing their jobs. Not all developers are the Devil's Spawn, and not all salespeople lie to the heavens in order to make a sale.

The only problem I have with your logic is that you're referring to a salesman or saleslady who has purposely chosen to sell a product at a price that is most likely a total ripoff. It takes a "special" type of person that can sleep well while working that type of job. And how many of them are totally honest about the product they're selling?

 

[SueDonJ]

While i don't think anyone is foolish enough to think that all salesman should be painted with the same "slimeball" brush....it would be equally foolish to assume that the one you are talking to at any given time is a saint =)

This industry didn't earn its black eyes overnight...while I wont argue for a minute that things haven't changed for the better over the years at many resorts...there are still far too many stories we hear each and every week that would lead me to believe the shady tricks are still being used often enough to warn people about them!

People should have the information presented to them so they can make an informed decision. I would much rather an owner know about these "controversial" issues and be able to say "wow, im glad someone warned me about that before I fell for it" or even "man im glad my resort isnt like that" vs going around completely oblivious to the fact that it exists.

I agree. But let me ask, at what point do we put the responsibility for a "bad" purchase on the person who makes it? Buyer Beware has to come into the equation somewhere, and the mandated rescission policies are in place for that very reason. Why do we put all the blame on the developers/salespeople when folks come here admitting that they just dumped a ton of money without doing due diligence, either before or directly after when they have the paperwork in their hands?

I'm not advocating that every person who comes here looking for help should be told, "too bad, so sad, you should have been more responsible" - not advocating such an insulting, dismissive attitude AT ALL! I just wish that we could take at least a little care to consider the perspective of the folks on the other side of the transaction as we do those on this side. Even if we can't say positive things about the developers/salespeople (and sometimes, those who buy from them,) do we have to always say negative things about them? Why not stick with the nuts and bolts, "this is what it is, this is how you can be helped," and not so much the, "those $*&#%#&^ took complete advantage of you!"

 

[SueDonJ]

The only problem I have with your logic is that you're referring to a salesman or saleslady who has purposely chosen to sell a product at a price that is most likely a total ripoff. It takes a "special" type of person that can sleep well while working that type of job. And how many of them are totally honest about the product they're selling?

I just don't get the animosity. They're salespeople, doing an entry level job that's taught to them in a specific manner meant to generate sales. Unless they own the product, and many don't, they have absolutely no reason to understand the product to the extent that owners should. Heck, many owners don't understand the product even after years of owning it!

For what it's worth, I don't understand animosity towards tele-sales people or political robo-calls or overeager salespeople at car dealerships, either. Salespeople sell things, that's what they do. They don't develop the product or write the product warranties or research the related legislation or etc etc etc

 

[TUGBrian]

I think rescission policies should be much longer. you dont even get to USE the product until the following year (in most cases). Especially in states where the term is only a few days, a week sometimes isnt even enough especially when the resorts attempt to schedule the sales presentations on the first day or two of the stay!

I agree completely with you that when it comes down to it...the buyer should do as much research as possible before signing a contract that is such a large purchase. After all, its not that the buyer generally wants out of the PRODUCT (admittedly that does happen, but far more rare)...but instead regrets the purchase price!

Perhaps there could be a staggered rescission period....say 7-10 days to cancel completely....and 30 days to price match a resale offer?

for instance...say im johnny q knowsnothing and buy a random timeshare for 25k.

Im clearly perfectly happy with the product, after all I just paid thousands of dollars for it! But I get home a week later and find that SAME product on the resale market for $500 bucks.

While I am all about capitalism and free markets, and there is no reason there shouldnt be a profit involved for the sale of a timeshare at the resort, but in these cases there should be at least some sort of refund involved to the owner.

There is no way that salesman isnt perfectly aware that the product he just sold for thousands can be bought for pennies in the resale market. While I agree that the cost of his salesmanship should earn him something, the goal for a resort is to have happy, maintenance fee paying owners....not rich salesmen.


anyway, thats just me rambling and thinking out loud.