Poll - Is TUG too negative?

[rcollinsny]

When speaking the truth, one is bound to upset someone!!

TUG tells it like it is and that is the way it should be!! TUG is definitely good for the resale industry. When people find TUG and educate themselves, then they can buy resale and feel good about what they have done. Thus more buyers means more demand and maybe even better prices for some sellers.

We bought 2 Wyndham contracts from the developer before finding TUG. After educating ourselves, we decided to become timeshare renters and bought 19 more resale contracts to stock our rental warehouse. We are doing great in the rental business as well as traveling extensively on our own. We love our timesharing experiences and we owe it all to what we learned on TUG!!

 

[GTStone]

Fair and Balanced ?

Poor me ... I see both sides.

I think there is a lot of benefit to TUG and it has been well stated by people who talk about the information they receive.

I also think its good to let people know about the resale market. However, I don't like the attitude expressed by many on the forum that if you pay more than a $1 you are getting ripped off. In fact, I'm not fond of putting all developers in the same box, or saying those of us who investigated the options, made informed decisions, and purchased from a developer are fools. I've heard that one before, and no amount of facts dissuades those people from being rude.

Perhaps the most overlooked point is that developing a property and marketing it is expensive. Also, in our free market system it is the developer's right to ask whatever they want for a property. No one is forced to buy a timeshare.

We tend to ignore personal responsibility on the part of the buyer. If they won't do their homework before seeking their free gift, then they can't blame it on a sales pitch. I knew what a timeshare was before I went to my first presentation. I knew what I wanted, what I was willing to spend, and set my limits. We reached an agreement and I bought a property without any regrets. The only free gift I wanted was lunch ! They paid for it.

Buyer's remorse is a fact of life with any high priced item. Timeshares are no different. It usually results when people simply don't make wise decisions or say NO. Salespeople are the same in every industry. I see it every day. Its the viewpoint of "promise anything, and later we'll do what we can deliver".

The good of TUG is that its a great information resource on how timeshares and exchanges work, how you can get great deals on resales, how to handle specific problems that arise, and what facilities offer a great option for your interests.

When it fails is when some posters are so entrenched in their negativity that they just flail away rudely at anyone who doesn't agree with their point of view. TUG doesn't need to change, but some people need to be more respectful in what they say.

 

[nunzioescargot]

I suppose

I can remember a "certain individual" be quoted in a national publication saying: anyone who bought or buys a new timeshare week is an idiot.(sounds somewhat negative). I considered it a slap in the face at the time. If it wasn't for people buying new timeshare weeks there wouldn't be any used timeshare weeks and without either, theoretically there wouldn't be any TUG.


Been a timeshare owner for over 30 years and a member of TUG since the early days.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The timeshare developer sales method is based on multiple commissions to get a warm body in a chair in front of their salesperson who then gets YOU to buy their product.

Those callers on the phone get a commission to get you in for a 2 or 3 night vacation (usually a flat rate).

The hangtag personnel at each resort get a commission (call penetration rate) on getting you to go to a sales meeting AND a small bonus IF you buy. But, they also get a minimum amount to hand out parking passes. And all those coupons, those vendors PAY a fee if the coupon is used --- amounting to several hundred dollars in a good month.

The sales person who is a licensed real estate sales person in the state gets an agreed commission also - only source of payment until they meet their goal in sales volume - then a bonus).

The broker (and any in between "closer", involved) gets a commission check based on the value of the sale.

The VP of the area gets a performance bonus with a partial basis of sales volume completed (and/or over goal).

Yes, every person WANTS you to attend the timeshare presentation and then to buy. By not going and not buying, everyone HATES you. By going, only the hangtag girl gets something --- everyone else HATES you. YOU represent a lost opportunity to be paid MONEY (you are called a 'tour'); sometimes, the real estate sales person only gets 1 tour for the entire day.
And the best sales persons get the most tours - brokers like making money also.

I find that MY time is more valuable than being insulted by a bunch of real estate sales people WHO tell me I NEED more timeshares.

So, go if you think you want to be abused or to waste 3-4 hours of your vacation morning or afternoon for chump change. I personally rather be floating in the pool or quietly reading a book.

 

[overthehill]

TUG provides an independent resource not available anywhere else

While I have seen a number of reviews over the years about resorts where my wife and I have stayed, I wonder when reading those reviews if we stayed at the same resort. Everyone has an opinion about resorts based on their expectations and what they found while staying at a resort. One has to take the reviews for what they are... one person's opinion. Reading thru a few of the recent reviews about a specific resort I believe the reader can get a sense/feel about what to expect at the resort. Yes, I believe TUG is not negative and provides a resource for it's members and future members. Keep up the good work. Thank you.

 

[pedro47]

Negativus is watching all the talk shows in the evening and that is not TUG.

 

[number1brownsfan]

I'm basically positive, except about timeshares.

The question is "Is TUG too negative?". I am a member and I am basically a positive person until I talk to people about my timeshare experiences. My mother-in-law bought a timeshare and my wife inherited it. I now know that she could have refused to take ownership, but the probate attorney said that he could not advise her to not take ownership. How can I be positive about a timeshare that was purchased for $1,500 that I can not give away without paying more money. We have always paid the yearly fees and sometimes had good exchanges. But usually we are pressured into listening to a sales pitch at those resorts. We have become wiser and refuse to listen to any new sales pitches. I could go on and on but why bother?

 

[ronwaite]

tug is good

I and my wife enjoyed being invited to our daughter/husbands time share at powhatan a number of times. Later, their fortunes changed and they couldn't afford the fees. My wife and I bought one timeshare from them and have had it for several years now. We still enjoy taking a vacation there and are using it as a stopover on our way south each year. That said, we have found that it's almost impossible to unload it, since I'm getting older we don't want to travel as much and it would be nice to get rid of the !@$% maintenance fees which keep rising each year. Tug has alerted us to the "problems" of diamond resorts and the resort. Each year we find that the maintenance on the units we have reserved has decreased, items that should be at least repaired have not been, light bulb wattages have been lowered, hot tubs are in the plan to be eliminated and so on. We live in the northeast and it would be nice to visit the few resorts listed , when I go on line though I usually get a "there is no available-----" You can try any date at several resorts and you get the same results. Diamond has made arrangements with great wolf lodges but they are only family with small kids resorts and so not for us. I have vented enough but this is my story, I like tug and feel they are doing a good job while the developers are not.

 

[heathpack]

Pre-TUG, all I knew is that timeshares were a joke, a rip off. Then my cousin starting working for DVC and she bought DVC points. What?! We thought she had been ripped off but were too polite to say so. We had no money so it didnt really matter, we couldn't afford a timeshare anyway. Then little by little we found out more about DVC and then finally went to a sales presentation at Disneyland to get the $100 gift card. We still thought it was probably a rip off but now were a little more established in life and could at least consider it. In my research process, I found TUG.

TUG is what convinced me that a timeshare is not necessarily a rip-off. So I would not say TUG is excessively negative. You will just learn the good and the bad and how to avoid as much of the bad as possible. Which is good, no?

We dipped out toes in the water with a Hyatt resale, then a tiny DVC resale contract, then an other small resale DVC contract. Then a free Starwood unit from the Bargain Basement Board. Now we're buying a resale Marriott. We love timeshares and its all "TUG love."

No one on TUG has lied to me or willfully misrepresented facts or glossed over important details for personal gain. I have, however, been outrageously lied to by a Marriott saleman, had the details spruced up a little but basically been told the truth by DVC and Hyatt saleswomen, and had some gentle but not entirely outrageous exaggerations from two different Starwood sales people.

Overall, I like timeshares better than I like TS salespeople and I am ok with but do not entirely trust the developers who run my TS.

H

 

[SunSand]

Tug has been overwhelmingly positive, the general group is very knowledgeable and quite helpful. That said, I posted an honest review of our latest trip. My account was less than glowing. I was outright attacked for my honest assessment of a Wyndham property. No one stopped the outright bulling. So, it depends. Most of the time the information is great and supportive. In general its a great service to the consumer. But I'm convinced, there are trolls who are timeshare marketing people here too.

 

[dzayas]

well I joined tug because I wanted to learn more about timeshares before I decided to purchase. tug helped me decide to purchase. I have learned lots from tug members and will continue to do so. I feel tug is awesome. I was not bombarded with people telling me not to buy. I love tug

Dave

 

[Bigrob]

Interesting responses!

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and the different perspectives. I think how far one goes in the direction of "negative" classification of developers and TS salespeople is as a result of the different interactions we've had.

For some (like me), the interactions have been varying degrees of negative. From my first TS presentation in the late 80s, where the sales person in essence attacked me for "wasting her time", to a recent presentation where the TS salesperson told my wife she was "lying" about something... we have had some combative, overly aggressive sales approaches that I felt definitely crossed the line. Having said that, I also see the "plight" of the sales person tasked with the responsibility to attempt to sell something at a markup of MANY MANY multiples of true value. Perhaps that is what drives so much of the negativity...

So on a whole do I think TUG is overly negative? No. I think it is a great informational resource. Do I think some/many TUGGERs use "shorthand" when referring to developers, TS salespeople, and their policies? Probably. Not every sales person is a "lying sales weasel". But we do have to remember that their job - how they get paid - is to sell something at a price MANY MANY times it's actual value. That type of sales challenge seems to attract a certain type of sales person and elicit certain types of sales tactics that most of us would categorize negatively.

 

[Kaelyn]

Tug negative?

There are days when I feel it's a little on the negative side. But, I'm THRILLED I found you guys. I would have made a very expensive mistake without you, and I've learned a lot here. Without what I've learned, I may have bought into a points system. While that's a great system for some, I've got friends who are having trouble with the "de-valuation" of points, and I'm glad I didn't go that way.

Are there positive posts, yes. Are there lots of people here who love their timeshares, yes. The positive stuff i got here about navigating the timeshare world and how to pick what will work best for you is why i went ahead and bought, rather than being scared off the whole idea. The negative stuff has some good solid warnings about potential pitfalls and how to avoid them, and great ideas on how to get the most out of your timeshare.

Would I like a little more positivity, sure, but I don't think we are too negative.

 

[easyrider]

Many products depreciate. Just because a timeshares resale value drops significantly doesn't really mean that its worthless. Look at cars and computers. I once bought a computer that was outdated the same month that I bought it. I once bought a car that lost 20% of its value as soon as I signed the paperwork. Both of these products served me well just like my timeshares.

Out of all the products I have purchased over the years my timeshares are the only one that I can still get really excited about. Its really not about "how much you paid" but more about "having a great vacation at a great place".

I would bet that percentage wise, the number of people that buy a new car that can't afford it are greater than the number of people that buy timeshares that can't afford it.

I would also bet that the people with the timeshares are more satisfied with their product after 10 years that people buying other products like cars and computers, even if they paid developer price.

So yes, tug is kind of a negative place for the newbie timeshare owner that bought at full price. Tug members do post negatively about not buying resale and it does cause anxiety to some one that suddenly feels they have 0 value in a product they just purchased.

I remember the first time I found tug. I was just looking for info on timeshares after buying one in Mexico. All of the posts were telling me I screwed up and if I couldn't cancel my contract I would need to learn to use my purchase. This caused me to loose sleep and feel bad but I did cancel, bought resale and learned how to use it. So tug worked out good for me.

TUG can be viewed as positive or negative depending on a persons perspective. For the timeshare enthusiast like me it is a very positive place. For a TS sales person it could be seen as a negative to overcome.

Bill

 

[Passepartout]

For the timeshare enthusiast like me it is a very positive place. For a TS sales person it could be seen as a negative to overcome.

Not picking on you, Bill, just using your very handy quote.

Regarding the poll as the above quote refers to it: We are the TIMESHARE USER'S GROUP, not the Timeshare Seller's Group.

Thus, our opinion may be a bit- OK a whole lot- skewed-, but it is what it is.

 

[timeos2]

I love tug,

I am a former owner (never plan on owning again)
I have found great rental properties here for less than the maintenance fee I was paying for my own unit.
I keep dishing out the $30 every 3 years to keep this group around.
If I ever did buy one again, I would NEVER buy from the developer.

As things stand today you have the right answer for many people. All I would add is that for those who absolutely love a specific resort - usually not a resort system - may still need to own to assure the ability to stay at that specific resort especially if a time of year or special unit/view is part of the requirements. For most systems (multi-resort clubs or points based groups of resorts) it isn't necessary to own as they have so much inventory they end up making great rental offers. Since they see those rental guests as potential owners they also tend to roll out the red carpet (as well as discounted price) to assure the "buyer" will be ready. If you go in knowing that, take advantage of the deals and (nicely) refuse to buy in you can really get some great resorts at hard to get tmes for deeply discounted pricing.

Take advantage of the market and use the best "tool" for the job. In timesharing today that is often renting rather than owning as you seem to have discovered.

 

[timeos2]

I remember the first time I found tug. I was just looking for info on timeshares after buying one in Mexico. All of the posts were telling me I screwed up and if I couldn't cancel my contract I would need to learn to use my purchase. This caused me to loose sleep and feel bad but I did cancel, bought resale and learned how to use it. So tug worked out good for me.


Bill

So a bit negative at the start that became a real positive. Nothing wrong with that and overall I'd give it a positive end rating.

 

[Quiet Pine]

I research everything I buy, so why would it be any different for a timeshare?

Me too. Others have used the word "overthink" about me. I lurked here for 6 (actually 8, but I hate to admit it) years before I bought a timeshare. I rented, I visited, I went on tours, I spent two weekends in Mexico. If it weren't for TUG and finding the right way (for me) to own a timeshare, I never would have bought. Did a salesperson make a commission? No. Am I a timeshare fan? Yes. Am I eager to have my children enjoy my timeshares? Yes. I think it's better that I willingly bought a timeshare than that an owner quit paying MF and saddled the HOA with the upkeep. There's lots of valuable information on TUG and I visit daily to soak it up.

 

[TUGBrian]

I guess my goal is to have TUG be a site that is a benefit for all Timeshare Owners who find it... or in other words, any timeshare owner would be better of at the very least discovering TUG....vs not knowing it exists.

As long as that remains the case, this site will keep on keepin on....positively or negatively =)

 

[MichaelColey]

Many products depreciate. Just because a timeshares resale value drops significantly doesn't really mean that its worthless. Look at cars and computers. I once bought a computer that was outdated the same month that I bought it. I once bought a car that lost 20% of its value as soon as I signed the paperwork. Both of these products served me well just like my timeshares.

Those are two extreme examples, but even they pale compared to timeshare depreciation.

If you buy a $30,000 developer unit at most timeshares and try to sell it the day after your rescission period, you might find that it has depreciated 90-99%. NOTHING else does that.

 

[leowis1]

I was recently bludgeoned and mauled by our tuggs friends for buying from a developer. I still think that mathematically my purchase makes sense. I wanted to buy into a points based system to add flexibility to my vacations as my lifestyle changes. So that means either buy from Starwood directly or buy an aftermarket resale mandatory resort. The mandatory resorts are mostly in Hawaii, Bahamas or VirginIslands. The MF at these resorts is between $1000-$1500 more per year than my Mrytle Beach resort. So while I may have paid an extra $7,000 to $10,000 upfront cost, I'll recover that expense over 10yrs.

Nobody on that thread cared. They saw me getting mauled and participated in the mob. Secondly, I repeated several times that I only take one nice vacation per year. The ability to recover some of of maintenance fees by converting to Starpoints was lost on this mob. I know I take a bath when converting, but it is an option to help pay for the other vacation.

If you want Star Options and low maintenance fees, you pretty much have to buy from a developer.

 

[Beefnot]

I was recently bludgeoned and mauled by our tuggs friends for buying from a developer. I still think that mathematically my purchase makes sense. I wanted to buy into a points based system to add flexibility to my vacations as my lifestyle changes. So that means either buy from Starwood directly or buy an aftermarket resale mandatory resort. The mandatory resorts are mostly in Hawaii, Bahamas or VirginIslands. The MF at these resorts is between $1000-$1500 more per year than my Mrytle Beach resort. So while I may have paid an extra $7,000 to $10,000 upfront cost, I'll recover that expense over 10yrs.

Nobody on that thread cared. They saw me getting mauled and participated in the mob. Secondly, I repeated several times that I only take one nice vacation per year. The ability to recover some of of maintenance fees by converting to Starpoints was lost on this mob. I know I take a bath when converting, but it is an option to help pay for the other vacation.

If you want Star Options and low maintenance fees, you pretty much have to buy from a developer.

You didn't get mauled because you bought from the developer; you got mauled because you refused to acknowledge that you could have accomplished virtually the same exact thing by spending far less resale. Reread the counterpoints in that thread again, not from the perspective of wanting to defend spending that type of money to the developer (versus vacationing to the Jersey Shore, which was somewhat of a non-sequitur), but from the perspective of "how could I have done what I aim to accomplish" much more cheaply.

I do not like when folks pile on because someone naively made a developer purchase, but I am not so sympathetic when they pile on because someone is stuck on...well, I'll leave it at that.

 

[easyrider]

Those are two extreme examples, but even they pale compared to timeshare depreciation.

If you buy a $30,000 developer unit at most timeshares and try to sell it the day after your rescission period, you might find that it has depreciated 90-99%. NOTHING else does that.

Thats true enough. It would be impossible to buy from the developer and flip for profit.
Unlike my car or cpu, my timeshares ( UVC and WM ) have been used for my enjoyment for the most part and will continue to do so for a long time. I really can't place a monetary value on making sandcastles, catching huge fish or any of the other activities our family and friends enjoy while staying in these fantastic resorts.

Positively, without a doubt, Im very happy with my timeshares. This is what I tell the people that ask me about timeshares because its the truth. I stopped ragging on people who bought from the developer about 6 years back. If some one meets me in the hot tub and tells me they spent 60K on a factional I just say congratulations anymore for the most part. There are exceptions.

Bill

 

[leowis1]

you got mauled because you refused to acknowledge that you could have accomplished virtually the same exact thing by spending far less resale.

Great point. Paying an extra $1000 per year in extra MF with a mandatory resort is by far a better value then paying an extra $10,000 up front when I expect to keep the timeshare for 25yrs.

 

[Beefnot]

Great point. Paying an extra $1000 per year in extra MF with a mandatory resort is by far a better value then paying an extra $10,000 up front when I expect to keep the timeshare for 25yrs.

The one person you cannot save someone from is himself. Especially if he is so blind that he refuses to read the posts in his own thread.

Does this constitute contributing to the TUG negativity?