Owner Update: How we upgraded and got HGV Max

[SmithOp]

I wouldn't say we "drank the koolaide". We were interested in expanding our HGV ownership. We got a good deal doubling our points and HGV Max was an unexpected bonus. And even better, we could afford what we purchased without financing (which never looks like a good deal to me!). As dougp26364 stated earlier, if the ownership upgrade makes sense and HGV Max is included at no extra cost, then why not go forward?

I too drank the Kool-aid over 20 years ago, paid cash also, so I don't mean it in an unkind way. Stick around and learn how to maximize what you own, and buy resale if you want more points.

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[frank808]

Hi All!

We are "newer" HGVC owners and just attended our owners update... and we bit! By newer I mean we purchased our first EOY HGVC deed in 2019, and then upgraded to an EY BHC deed six months later.

Also note that as an HGV Max member all reservation/booking fees are waived. Also we were told that HGV Max owners will have a unique website/app experience - HGV Max members will see the new HGV Max logo on the top left of homepage, and the site will have different access and features that traditional non-Max owners will not see.

I hope you knew that by owning a BHC property and paying the higher Club fees, that you already had reservation fees waived. You did not need to upgrade to max to get this.

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[BingoBangoBongo]

I don't know about 2019 prices, Max, or Kool aid. I do know OP has spent $47,000 for about 10,000 old annual points, which are available for about $10,000 or less in Vegas deeds with MF around $1500 total. Even with all the bonus points, that puts the cost of Max at ~$25,000. That's for six month access to DRI resorts, and six month access to DRI is of unknown-questionable-dubious value.

It seems like a lot. Not completely crazy, but high. I would want to know exactly what I was getting for my $25,000 - exactly what kind of availability at which resorts Max gets me - before upgrading to retail and then to Max.

I believe the OP now has 10,080 new points, which would be 6300 old points. It looks like it’s a Studio Premier in Gold Season. OP corrected to a 1BR Premier in Gold. With all the unknowns on what will actually be available at 6 months it seems like a leap of faith to me.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I hope you knew that by owning a BHC property and paying the higher Club fees, that you already had reservation fees waived. You did not need to upgrade to max to get this.

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Plus you get Honors Gold from bHC.

@JillAndrea Did they provide you with the ratio of new HGVC points to DRI points when you reserve DRI? Is it 1:1? (I fear this is the case, since they just changed our points by 1.6x)

(for all) If the ratio is 1:1, a week at Point at Poipu in a 2 Bdrm during prime season runs 21,100 and Sedona 1 bdrms are about 15,000 in DRI points. Much more expensive than HGVC! (15k - 20k vs. 11,200 (old 7000) points for a 2bdrm week). I am glad they are limiting DRI max to 6 months HGVC because DRI members will flood HGVC properties with all of their points because they will arbitrage into HGVC properties for more value. (I don't blame them, I would do the same.)

HGVC owners will need to reserve by 6 month or bHC by their resort to club deadline or they will not have access at all. What this also means is that higher point DRI properties such as P@P might become available at 6 months. Why stay one week in a 20,100 P@P when you can stay two weeks on the BI or Oahu for around 10k HGVC points for a 2bdrm in prime? These DRI properties are priced along the lines of the newer HGVC properties like Grand Islander and OT.

Perhaps this is by design to get everyone to buy more points. Also, the lower point HGVCs tend to reserve first so perhaps it is intended that the remaining units at 6 months will be the higher point HGVC units that few reserve (goodbye Open Season Availability for these HGVC properties). However trading HGVC to DRI makes the HGVC Max value worse because all that are left are the relatively high point DRIs.

The ratio of HGV points to DRI points for reservations is key to MAX. If 1:1 is true, it is not worth blowing a year+ of points for a reservation on DRI when I can get 1 - 2 weeks in HGVC. Plus pay $7k for "the privilege" (and potentially not have access to the best DRI properties at 6 months).

I hope my analysis is wrong and the ratios are different. Please tell me otherwise.

 

[JillAndrea]

I hope you knew that by owning a BHC property and paying the higher Club fees, that you already had reservation fees waived. You did not need to upgrade to max to get this.

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We have always paid reservation fees, even after purchasing BHC.. $59 per booking. But we were not staying at our home property... perhaps that is why? Also keep in mind that we did not upgrade to Max for the waived reservation fees. The take-away for us was doubling our deed/point value and expanding the resort portfolio.

 

[JillAndrea]

I believe the OP now has 10,080 new points, which would be 6300 old points. It looks like it’s a Studio Premier in Gold Season. With all the unknowns on what will actually be available at 6 months it seems like a leap of faith to me.

We purchased a 1 bedroom king premier in gold season.

 

[JillAndrea]

Plus you get Honors Gold from bHC.

@JillAndrea Did they provide you with the ratio of new HGVC points to DRI points when you reserve DRI? Is it 1:1? (I fear this is the case, since they just changed our points by 1.6x)

(for all) If the ratio is 1:1, a week at Point at Poipu in a 2 Bdrm during prime season runs 21,100 and Sedona 1 bdrms are about 15,000 in DRI points. Much more expensive than HGVC! I am glad they are limiting DRI max to 6 months HGVC because DRI members will flood HGVC properties with all of their points because they will arbitrage into HGVC properties for more value. (I don't blame them, I would do the same.)

HGVC owners will need to reserve by 6 month or bHC by their resort to club deadline or they will not have access at all. What this also means is that higher point DRI properties such as P@P might become available at 6 months. Why stay one week in a 20,100 P@P when you can stay two weeks on the BI or Oahu for around 10k HGVC points for a 2bdrm in prime? These DRI properties are priced along the lines of the newer HGVC properties like Grand Islander and OT.

Perhaps this is by design to get everyone to buy more points. Also, the lower point HGVCs tend to reserve first so perhaps it is intended that the remaining units will be the higher point units that few reserve (goodbye Open Season Availability for these HGVC properties). However trading HGVC to DRI makes the HGVC Max value worse because all that are left are the relatively high point DRIs.

The ratio of HGV points to DRI points for reservations is key to MAX. If 1:1 is true, it is not worth blowing a year+ of points (15k - 20k vs. 11,200 (old 7000) points for a 2bdrm week) for a reservation on DRI when I can get 1 - 2 weeks in HGVC. Plus pay $7k for "the privilege" (and potentially not have access to the best DRI properties at 6 months).

I hope my analysis is wrong and the ratios are different. Please tell me otherwise.

Yes, the ratio is 1:1. This is the reason HGV recalibrate its point values +60%... so all properties would use the same point system.

 

[dayooper]

We have always paid reservation fees, even after purchasing BHC.. $59 per booking. But we were not staying at our home property... perhaps that is why? Also keep in mind that we did not upgrade to Max for the waived reservation fees. The take-away for us was doubling our deed/point value and expanding the resort portfolio.

With bHC, if you add on the All Inclusive fee option, you wouldn't have paid anything for your booking fees.

My guess is the next sales presentation you attend, you will told this deed isn't very good or good enough for you so you will need to spend more and update. They will tell you that your membership is sub par until you achieve the next tier of status. It's why they keep upping the requirements with new tiers so they can keep selling those with an extreme amount of points the idea of achieving a greater status. The new level (Centium) is almost double the amount of points as previous high tier.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

If 1:1 then 1.6x is a significant devaluation of the HGVC points system relative to DRI because most Diamond owners will have 1.5x the number of points. 15,000 DRI 1 bdrm or 2 bdrm non peak vs. 11, 200 (old 7000) or 15,360 (old 9600).

What is the average number of points owned by a DRI owner?

Max is sounding like a great deal for DRI (if they don't have significant buy-in price) and not so good deal for HGVC owners unless they have a lot of points to burn. This is all conjecture so need to learn more.

 

[dayooper]

The ratio of HGV points to DRI points for reservations is key to MAX. If 1:1 is true, it is not worth blowing a year+ of points for a reservation on DRI when I can get 1 - 2 weeks in HGVC. Plus pay $7k for "the privilege" (and potentially not have access to the best DRI properties at 6 months).

My guess is if someone wants to go to Kauai, Maui, Sedona, Tahoe or Virginia Beach on a regular basis, you might just want to purchase a resale deed there. The cost would be much less and you will have a better chance to get the exact date you want.

 

[dayooper]

If 1:1 then 1.6x is a significant devaluation of the HGVC points system relative to DRI because most Diamond owners will have almost 1.5x the number of points. 15,000 DRI 1 bdrm or 2 bdrm non peak vs. 11, 200 (old 7000) or 15,360 (old 9600).

If you want to book DRI resorts, yes it is. Then again, I agree with many that HGV Max is just for marketing and sales. The ability to sell prospective buyers on the increased amount of resorts is key. Most won't realize how restrictive the 6 month window is when booking resorts they want. Maybe as more DRI resorts get added to the HGV Max listing, they will open up the window a bit, but I doubt it.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@JillAndrea FWIW if it is not too late, I would rescind and buy Vegas resale 7k deed for < $8k. You could buy two of those for < $17k adding 14,000 old points for about $2000 MF. Add your existing 5k old and you now have 30,400 new points for $17k.

If you want Max just pay the $7k fee or trade these resales in for an upgrade in if you desire. You still own a retail deed so are eligible for the program.

Alternatively buy one old 7k Vegas Deed for $8k all in ($1000 MF) and Buy Max $7000 and for $15k you have 12,000 old points (7k + 5k) /19.200 new, plus Max. Then you could sell or give away your old property if you don't want the MF.

This would give you 11,200 new points (7000 old) at $1000 MF plus access to MAX. More than your 5k points today, lower MF than today AND MAX for about $15k all in (a savings of $2000) Plus you can add more resales after you added MAX if you want more points.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

We purchased a 1 bedroom king premier in gold season.

I didn't see those 1BR's when I looked at the chart. I still think you have spent a lot of $ with still a lot of uncertainty around Max. I agree with the advice CalGalTraveler posted abouve this and rescind if it's not too late. Take a step back to see how this all shakes out. You have spent a lot of $ and honestly don't have a ton of points to use. Personally I think a 6 month booking window will be useless for hot locations.

 

[Hobokie]

@CalGalTraveler & @BingoBangoBongo , the OP already told us she did this about a month ago and therefore she can't rescind... But hopefully she understands the math we are trying to explain here and this can better inform her decision in the future, right @JillAndrea ?

 

[Mongoose]

I'm also skeptical on how much actual product will be available inside of six months. Seems like leftovers. I wonder if they can put in requests 18 months out to get priority on cancelations? To me, DRI just does not seem to be worth the MF premiums.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

@CalGalTraveler & @BingoBangoBongo , the OP already told us she did this about a month ago and therefore she can't rescind... But hopefully she understands the math we are trying to explain here and this can better inform her decision in the future, right @JillAndrea ?

The first sentence in the first post said "just attended".

 

[Mongoose]

If you want to book DRI resorts, yes it is. Then again, I agree with many that HGV Max is just for marketing and sales. The ability to sell prospective buyers on the increased amount of resorts is key. Most won't realize how restrictive the 6 month window is when booking resorts they want. Maybe as more DRI resorts get added to the HGV Max listing, they will open up the window a bit, but I doubt it.

This entire thing sounds like a copy of TravelShare with Worldmark and Wyndham. A very small minority that pay for it ever get any decent locations/times and based on the feedback they often get better options with RCI.

 

[JillAndrea]

I didn't see those 1BR's when I looked at the chart. I still think you have spent a lot of $ with still a lot of uncertainty around Max. I agree with the advice CalGalTraveler posted abouve this and rescind if it's not too late. Take a step back to see how this all shakes out. You have spent a lot of $ and honestly don't have a ton of points to use. Personally I think a 6 month booking window will be useless for hot locations.

You have to scroll down. There are 3 room types for 10080 pts in Gold. Ours is the 1 Bedroom Premier Small. In the contract it is listed as type VIII which is the King version (as opposed to 2 doubles).

We are not going to rescind. I appreciate all the feedback, and I suppose we will learn as we go, but at this time we feel we got exactly what we were looking for. Perhaps naive, but we will see!

 

[JillAndrea]

The first sentence in the first post said "just attended".

We attended on Friday, but we are not going to rescind. We believe what we have now is better for us than what we had before.

 

[Hobokie]

We attended on Friday, but we are not going to rescind. We believe what we have now is better for us than what we had before.

@JillAndrea not trying to be pushy, just doing what we do here on TUG (educating ourselves and each other!) on timeshare ownership... would you be open to someone explaining it to you with numbers/math in case you might reconsider? There's no shame in this game, most owners here bought from the developer vs resale originally and learned the ropes only AFTER finding TUG. I'm one of the lucky ones, but many on here were in a similar boat to yours! @SmithOp who replied to this thread is one example...

If you're open to a detailed explanation with numbers on why you should rescind, let us know and someone can take a stab at explaining this at a very basic level so anyone can follow.

 

[Nowaker]

If 1:1 then 1.6x is a significant devaluation of the HGVC points system relative to DRI because most Diamond owners will have 1.5x the number of points. 15,000 DRI 1 bdrm or 2 bdrm non peak vs. 11, 200 (old 7000) or 15,360 (old 9600).

What is the MFpp in DRI? If they pay more MF and get more points, it all equals out.

 

[Nowaker]

We have always paid reservation fees, even after purchasing BHC.. $59 per booking. But we were not staying at our home property... perhaps that is why?

No, that's not why you paid it. You paid booking fees because you didn't enroll for all-inclusive booking fees - an option available to BHC owners only. Rather than pay $193 club fee, you'd pay a bit more ($300-ish), and you get free booking fees - but you have to enroll.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@JillAndrea I am also an owner who paid retail and now have resales. I also enrolled in bHC AI and get all reservations for all properties free.

Would be happy to discuss the numbers I shared above. Your deal is not terrible - It's your money but you will get more bang for the buck with resale.

 

[Shmiddy]

We went through the same high pressure sales pitch with a real sense of urgency - if we don't act now were going to lose bigtime. Her offer was the minimum to upgrade, $10k plus fees, for an additional 1500 points and HGV max. No thanks - we didn't bite and I feel like we dodged a bullet. Looks like decent properties won't be available for a few years - plus - if I read the rules correctly, access will be 6 months out. So only the left overs.

 

[Mongoose]

What is the MFpp in DRI? If they pay more MF and get more points, it all equals out.

In my observations they pay much higher MFs per equivalent stay. I don't have the raw numbers, but it appears that they charge maybe 35% premium above HGVC for a week for the same room type.