Ocean Front now has more Starpoints and Options [merged]

[okwiater]

That's right - completely forgot about that. But they call them something else - Ocean Side?

Correct - WLR Oceanside.

 

[tomandrobin]

Correct - WLR Oceanside.

With the new system, new company.....I can see a re-classification coming.

 

[okwiater]

But why two separate 'flex'

I don't agree with Denise that Maui owners having a "meltdown" is the reason for the likelihood of 2 separate Flex plans. However, I think it might make business sense to do so -- specifically because it gives SVO 2 separate price points for what is essentially the same product. In other words, even though a Sheraton Flex 148,100 package has the same trading power as a Westin Flex 148,100 package, the Westin Flex package will sell for a higher price because you will be purchasing home resort priority for the more premium resorts. (See WSJ-CV Diamond vs. Resort season for a similar methodology which was applied at the resort level).

Caveat: This is all speculation, and no official announcement has been made regarding Westin Flex, etc. etc.

 

[SMHarman]

Because the Florida Resorts, SBP, and SDO are not in the same ball park - Maui owners would have a meltdown if you could buy Flexpoints in Orlando, and have Maui be one of your home resorts.

But you are no longer buying in Maui. You are buying into the trust.

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[DeniseM]

I don't agree with Denise that Maui owners having a "meltdown" is the reason for the likelihood of 2 separate Flex plans.

That's not what I said:

This is why: Because the Florida Resorts, SBP, and SDO are not in the same ball park.

This would be owner's response: Maui owners would have a meltdown if you could buy Flexpoints in Orlando, and have Maui be one of your home resorts.

 

[DeniseM]

But you are no longer buying in Maui. You are buying into the trust.

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Yes, but Florida Flex owners would be able to reserve Maui during the home resort reservation window as their home resort. I don't see how they can sell Florida and Hawaii for the same price.

 

[SMHarman]

Yes, but Florida Flex owners would be able to reserve Maui during the home resort reservation window as their home resort. I don't see how they can sell Florida and Hawaii for the same price.

If they ponied up for 148 Or 178k flex points. More that they would own for their home resort week.

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[VacationForever]

Based on my memory, Sheraton Flex is not cheap. Vistana (Starwood) could simply adjust Home Option values required to book at each resort and view accordingly to normalize across all resorts. No need to have both Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex, but to rename Sheraton Flex as Vistana Flex.

 

[okwiater]

Based on my memory, Sheraton Flex is not cheap. Vistana (Starwood) could simply adjust Home Option values required to book at each resort and view accordingly to normalize across all resorts. No need to have both Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex, but to rename Sheraton Flex as Vistana Flex.

Sheraton Flex is $51K for 148,100 options. But as I am speculating in this thread, it's all but certain there will be a separate points product.

 

[LisaRex]

DeniseM, Ken555, DavidnRobin, sjsharkie, etc. -- not to say "I told you so," (well, maybe a little ) but I predicted this back in January: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222406&p=1718003

However, I predicted it back in October 2013! (Oh, and let's forget the other prediction about WSJ possibly being available in II!)

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1538161&postcount=42

P.S. I think it makes sense, however it makes less sense if OV and IV are lumped together. While they're muddying the waters, why not make OV worth somewhere in between 148,100 and 176,700?

 

[SMHarman]

There are special mathematical relationships between all these numbers. You are not going to get a number in the middle.

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[alexadeparis]

Yes, but Florida Flex owners would be able to reserve Maui during the home resort reservation window as their home resort. I don't see how they can sell Florida and Hawaii for the same price.

I think they can do it by varying the numbers of points. For example if you buy 81,000 FO's you can get a 2 bedroom unit in Florida, but those same level of points only garners a 1 bedroom unit in Hawaii. I am not sure what the traditional pricing of a FL 2 Bed Plat vs HI 1 Bd Plat. But if they are similar, that is how I envision them overcoming that hurdle.

 

[DavidnRobin]

y'all are a crack-up...

Even with implementation of a Flex system at Nanea - there is nothing in WKORV/N CCRs (unless they are amended) that allows a Flex System Owner to reserve at HomeResort period at 8-12 months, and thereby matching WKORV/N Owners Resort Ownership for location priority - unless they are getting these from SVO Owned VOIs at WKORV/N (and that only happens with what they already own or Owners giving up via ROFR/Trade-ins, etc).

The sky is falling!

Right now OFD is running at $124K if bought from SVO - Nanea OF will need to match that price for equivalent SOs.

 

[DeniseM]

David - That is exactly what we are talking about - Starwood is buying up inventory at WKORV-N/S for the Flex program.

 

[SMHarman]

David - That is exactly what we are talking about - Starwood is buying up inventory at WKORV-N/S for the Flex program.

Then those that spent 125k for 176k flex options will be able to book into NN OF at 12 month's. What's the big deal?

If 81k options in Florida is $40k then 176k of the options is about $125 k so the buy in is the same.

Same difference.

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[DeniseM]

IMNSHO - Starwood is buying up inventory at WKORV-N&S to put in the Flex program, not just WKORV-NN.

So Flex owners in the "Westin Flex Program," or "Hawaii Flex Program," will also be able to book the original resorts in the home resort period just like deeded owners.

The more inventory that goes into the Flex program, the less availability there will be for deeded owners at the original resorts.

Is it a big deal? Only time will tell.

 

[lizap]

And less inventory for mandatory owners who want to use SOs to visit WKORV and WPORV. Put another way, Starwood is screwing its loyal mandatory owners. IMHO, this is really being mishandled by Starwood.. I think this is bordering on being a question of ethics (if the speculation is correct). They should be upfront with us and let their loyal owners know what their plans are so we can decide what we want to do... We should at a minimum be allowed to buy into the FLEX program. While I know you are not guaranteed anything other than your week, Starwood promotes and has promoted SOs has a way to visit other resorts, which is a big reason we purchased 148,000 SOs at WKV..

IMNSHO - Starwood is buying up inventory at WKORV-N&S to put in the Flex program, not just WKORV-NN.

So Flex owners in the "Westin Flex Program," or "Hawaii Flex Program," will also be able to book the original resorts in the home resort period just like deeded owners.

The more inventory that goes into the Flex program, the less availability there will be for deeded owners at the original resorts.

Is it a big deal? Only time will tell.

 

[taterhed]

Unless they end up making a conciliatory offer to owners of mandatory resorts who are grandfathered in prior to xxxx
Indeed that is how I think it will play out. The only question is, is it worth making a bet on the property?


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[VacationForever]

I had attended a couple of owner updates where the sale people said that Starwood regretted designating and selling resorts that were mandatory. I think they would love to make mandatory resorts less attractive if they can.

 

[lizap]

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Starwood does NOT have a cohesive strategic plan for its TS division. The fact that they are spinning it off (to sell it) is very telling.

I had attended a couple of owner updates where the sale people said that Starwood regretted designating and selling resorts that were mandatory. I think they would love to make mandatory resorts less attractive if they can.

 

[pacman]

Yes - because they are rare, and they are prized as inexpensive units that can be requalified for 148,100. Not all 1-52 floating 2 bdms. qualify for 148,100 Staroptions - only the Plat weeks.

They aren't that rare. There have been 2 listed on TUG recently, including mine. EOY.
There were also a couple listed on Redweek last time I checked.

pacman

 

[sjsharkie]

They aren't that rare. There have been 2 listed on TUG recently, including mine. EOY.
There were also a couple listed on Redweek last time I checked.

pacman

You missed Denise's point. There is a big difference between EOY and EY. SDO Plat Plus EYs are much more scarce because they are the optimal property to requalify -- low mfs and relatively low purchase price.

No one in their right mind wants to requal EOY units -- hence the lesser demand and larger supply in the marketplace.

-ryan

 

[SueDonJ]

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Starwood does NOT have a cohesive strategic plan for its TS division. The fact that they are spinning it off (to sell it) is very telling.

One thing that was and is still very helpful to us Marriott owners is that TUGger dioxide45 found the legal filings for the Trust shortly after Marriott established its Points system, and keeps up with the ongoing conveyances to it (Recorded Trust Documents.) It could also help you Starwood folks if one of your legal minds could find your similar docs.

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that the Starwood spin-off to Vistana reflects protection for the timeshares because haven't they announced - or aren't there trade rumors - that it's only the hotel business that's on the market? Are there indications that they're also shopping the Vistana spin-off?

 

[DeniseM]

They aren't that rare. There have been 2 listed on TUG recently, including mine. EOY.
There were also a couple listed on Redweek last time I checked.

pacman

Clarification: The EOY deeds don't requalify for 148,100 Staroptions, so they are not desirable for requalifying.

To requalify 2 EOY deeds, you'd have to buy 2 timeshares from Starwood for a minimum of $20K each.

The 2 Bdm. EY Plat deeds requalify for 148,100 Staroptions and they are popular with people looking to requalify, because of their low MF, and you'd only have to buy one deed from Starwood to requalify.

 

[DeniseM]

One thing that was and is still very helpful to us Marriott owners is that TUGger dioxide45 found the legal filings for the Trust shortly after Marriott established its Points system, and keeps up with the ongoing conveyances to it (Recorded Trust Documents.) It could also help you Starwood folks if one of your legal minds could find your similar docs.

The Hawaii Flex Program is not in active sales yet, because they are early in construction, so there may not be anything filed yet.

The earlier announcement of the original Flex program only included the Florida resorts, Sheraton Broadway Plantation, and Sheraton Desert Oasis.