Ocean Front now has more Starpoints and Options [merged]

[DeniseM]

If Starwood buys a week, it can do what it wants with it. But it cannot usurp my absolute right to an OF reservation at WKORV (as long as I make a reservation on time).

(I will be in line with David to file that lawsuit if they try.)

True - But depending on how many go in the pool, it might limit availability to deeded week owners.
Just say'n

*Yes, I AM playing the devil's advocate here, but let's not pretend this is anything except a move that helps Starwood sell their new phase/Flex System.

 

[okwiater]

DeniseM, Ken555, DavidnRobin, sjsharkie, etc. -- not to say "I told you so," (well, maybe a little ) but I predicted this back in January: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222406&p=1718003

 

[taterhed]

DeniseM, Ken555, DavidnRobin, sjsharkie, etc. -- not to say "I told you so," (well, maybe a little ) but I predicted this back in January: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222406&p=1718003

Props. You indeed called it.

This is definitely 'rub your nose in it' worthy.

 

[Henry M.]

My understanding is that Nanea will have a point system, but WKORV and WKORV-N will not change from what they are today. WKORV and WKORV-N are considered sister properties. Nanea is totally separate. For example, employees can move freely between WKORV and WKORV-N, but a move to Nanea would be considered a transfer.

 

[PamMo]

Yes, I remember that discussion and you DID nail it! We Tuggers love prognosticating over what Starwood (and other developers, exchange companies...) can/can't and will/won't do.

 

[DeniseM]

My understanding is that Nanea will have a point system, but WKORV and WKORV-N will not change from what they are today. WKORV and WKORV-N are considered sister properties. Nanea is totally separate. For example, employees can move freely between WKORV and WKORV-N, but a move to Nanea would be considered a transfer.

I believe that current deeded ownerships will stay the same.

But I also think that Starwood is acquiring inventory at WKORV-N/S for the flex system.

 

[wallace37]

My understanding is that Nanea will have a point system, but WKORV and WKORV-N will not change from what they are today. WKORV and WKORV-N are considered sister properties. Nanea is totally separate. For example, employees can move freely between WKORV and WKORV-N, but a move to Nanea would be considered a transfer.

From the press release of Nanea Ocean Villas: "Guests will enjoy cultural
programming celebrating local history, arts and crafts, music and dance, as well as access to resort amenities at
The Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas located next door, including Spa Helani, a Heavenly Spa by Westin. "

Do you think guests of WKORV(N) will have reciprocal access to Nanea?

 

[Henry M.]

Yes. I would think those kinds of privileges would be reciprocal.

 

[DeniseM]

From the press release of Nanea Ocean Villas: "Guests will enjoy cultural
programming celebrating local history, arts and crafts, music and dance, as well as access to resort amenities at
The Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas located next door, including Spa Helani, a Heavenly Spa by Westin. "

Do you think guests of WKORV(N) will have reciprocal access to Nanea?

Absolutely....

 

[lizap]

Your chance of getting an OF at these resorts as a non-owner wasn't that great, anyway..

Now a WKV will no longer pull a 2 bedroom

 

[lizap]

OK, I'll make another prediction: Starwood (Vistana) will offer other existing owners a chance to buy into the Flex system (ala Marriott), but the price won't be as reasonable as that of Marriott..

DeniseM, Ken555, DavidnRobin, sjsharkie, etc. -- not to say "I told you so," (well, maybe a little ) but I predicted this back in January: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222406&p=1718003

 

[GregT]

OK, I'll make another prediction: Starwood (Vistana) will offer other existing owners a chance to buy into the Flex system (ala Marriott), but the price won't be as reasonable as that of Marriott..

I agree with this -- and I think it will be most compelling to owners of voluntary resorts that would have been worth 148,100 StarOptions and have reasonable MFs. But I'm not sure which property that would be?

Best,

Greg

 

[SMHarman]

Your chance of getting an OF at these resorts as a non-owner wasn't that great, anyway..

Good news now is subject to availability. You can book and guarantee one.

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[SMHarman]

I agree with this -- and I think it will be most compelling to owners of voluntary resorts that would have been worth 148,100 StarOptions and have reasonable MFs. But I'm not sure which property that would be?

Best,

Greg

The unicorn SOD Plat Plus appears again.

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[taterhed]

OK, I'll make another prediction: Starwood (Vistana) will offer other existing owners a chance to buy into the Flex system (ala Marriott), but the price won't be as reasonable as that of Marriott..

I agree with this -- and I think it will be most compelling to owners of voluntary resorts that would have been worth 148,100 StarOptions and have reasonable MFs. But I'm not sure which property that would be?

Best,

Greg

+2 I'll look for that unicorn. Dang. Maybe I should have grabbed that free WKV last week. I could have banked/borrowed/rented 146k points and been golden!

 

[Ken555]

DeniseM, Ken555, DavidnRobin, sjsharkie, etc. -- not to say "I told you so," (well, maybe a little ) but I predicted this back in January: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222406&p=1718003

I was just thinking of this as I read this thread. Bonus points for you!

I'm not sure how this will turn out in the long run, but with the recent changes to SVN itself (vistana, flex, etc), these types of changes became more possible. I doubt we've seen the last change, either.


Sent from my iPad

 

[sjsharkie]

DeniseM, Ken555, DavidnRobin, sjsharkie, etc. -- not to say "I told you so," (well, maybe a little ) but I predicted this back in January: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222406&p=1718003

You do get partial credit

Your post indicated a bump of options at the Maui properties -- not the OF sliver that is included in this change.

Clearly I am unhappy by the changes as this further dilutes the pool of available SOs without increasing any actual eligible unit inventory. That only devalues the current SOs for those of us that do not own Maui OF.

That being said, I still stand by my original post because the OF properties represent a smaller fraction of the units on Maui. This was somewhat clever, because it still allows owners of a 2BR lockoff Plat Plus to exchange into Maui at 8 mos while adding the availability of reserving OF if desired -- meanwhile, they devalue the SO of an existing unit slightly, but not so much to create a huge outright revolt. All this to enable selling units at WKORV-NN for more $$.

But you do get partial kudos in my book

-ryan

 

[GregT]

The unicorn SDO Plat Plus appears again.

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Are they never for sale? Interesting because it does meet the limited criteria I set out, do they get snapped up when available?

Best,

Greg

 

[DeniseM]

Are they never for sale? Interesting because it does meet the limited criteria I set out, do they get snapped up when available?

Best,

Greg

Yes - because they are rare, and they are prized as inexpensive units that can be requalified for 148,100. Not all 1-52 floating 2 bdms. qualify for 148,100 Staroptions - only the Plat weeks.

 

[okwiater]

I'm not sure how this will turn out in the long run, but with the recent changes to SVN itself (vistana, flex, etc), these types of changes became more possible. I doubt we've seen the last change, either.

SVO's behavior becomes a lot more predictable if you assume that all of the changes they began implementing a couple of years ago are part of a well-orchestrated master plan rather than simply arbitrary.

Viewed through that lens, StarOptions banking was always -- rather obviously, in hindsight -- the mechanism by which SVO could start developing new resorts at higher SO values without fundamentally breaking the SVN marketplace. Everybody knows that 148,100 & 196,900 were the top-tier 2BR and 3BR valuations. Without banking, there was no way to introduce "inflation" into the StarOption currency because the new WSJ 257,700 valuations could only be deposited in SVN but never redeemed. When StarOptions banking was introduced, it seemed like such a great feature -- but in reality it makes it much, much easier to continually devalue SOs because hey, you can always bank this year's StarOptions and reserve that shiny new resort next year. It also acts as a very useful sales tool by encouraging owners to regularly "trade up" to new resorts with higher SO valuations.

I know what you're thinking -- as owners trade up, how will SVO resell those newly devalued deeds? I'm glad you asked. If I were SVO, I would probably create a holding company that sells points packages backed by all of those deeds. Oh wait, they already did that.

Not to derail this thread, but this is fundamentally the reason why I think it's obvious that SVO will begin adding new resorts to the existing Sheraton Flex plan -- and possibly a new Westin Flex plan for the higher-end resorts -- but will stop selling them as individually deeded, or even individually "pointed" (i.e. WSJ-CV), ownerships.

I could be wrong, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason why...

 

[SMHarman]

But why two separate 'flex'

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[tomandrobin]

Not that we know of - but there aren't any other resorts with an "Ocean Front" designation in the Starwood system.

Wasn't Lagunamar suppose to sell OF units in the last phase?

 

[tomandrobin]

I don't own at any of the Maui Resorts, but I do think the change makes since.

 

[DeniseM]

Wasn't Lagunamar suppose to sell OF units in the last phase?

That's right - completely forgot about that. But they call them something else - Ocean Side?

 

[DeniseM]

But why two separate 'flex'

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Because the Florida Resorts, SBP, and SDO are not in the same ball park - Maui owners would have a meltdown if you could buy Flexpoints in Orlando, and have Maui be one of your home resorts.