Recorded Trust Documents

dioxide45 · Jun 28, 2010

You can access the recorded trust documents on the Orange County FL comptroller website. Includes actual unit information of what was conveyed to the trust.

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/web/

I have done the work for you and provided the document numbers. Just search by document number.

Trust Agreement: 20100149464 (You can also search just for this document, then the related resort notices are listed on the left hand side)

Notices adding points for each trust resort:
20100267160 - Oceana Palms
20100267159 - Canyon Villas
20100267158 - Ocean Watch
20100267157 - Maui Ocean Club
20100267156 - Willow Ridge Lodge
20100267155 - Newport Coast Villas
20100267154 - Timber Lodge
20100267153 - Ko'Olina
20100267152 - Kalanipu'u
20100267151 - Crystal Shores
20100267092 - Maui Ocean Club II
20100267091 - Grande Vista

potchak · Jun 28, 2010

I thought the trust documents would have said how many pts were available in total for the resort. Guess not. Supposedly one of the Customer Advocacy folks is supposed to get back to us and let us know how many pts are available for Timberlodge. We shall see.

kedler · Jun 28, 2010

dioxide45 said:
You can access the recorded trust documents on the Orange County FL comptroller website. Includes actual unit information of what was conveyed to the trust.

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/web/

I have done the work for you and provided the document numbers. Just search by document number.

Trust Agreement: 20100149464 (You can also search just for this document, then the related resort notices are listed on the left hand side)

Notices adding points for each trust resort:
20100267160 - Oceana Palms
20100267159 - Canyon Villas
20100267158 - Ocean Watch
20100267157 - Maui Ocean Club
20100267156 - Willow Ridge Lodge
20100267155 - Newport Coast Villas
20100267154 - Timber Lodge
20100267153 - Ko'Olina
20100267152 - Kalanipu'u
20100267151 - Crystal Shores
20100267092 - Maui Ocean Club II
20100267091 - Grande Vista

Thanks for the information!

SueDonJ · Jun 28, 2010

VERY nice work, Dioxide, thanks!

How much should we be relying on the supposition that these units conveyed to the trust are the only units Marriott had available at the time it was set up? These are obviously units from the resorts which have not sold out, right? Well, as Shorty points out, there is no correlation between these and the total number of units at each resort. As well, we have no idea how many units Marriott is holding at other resorts that are not sold-out, or how many deed-backs Marriott is holding at the sold-out resorts. (I know there was a list of inventory at SurfWatch that my sales rep had two weeks before roll-out, and she also had at least one Barony unit that had been given back in an "equity trade-up.")

Isn't it possible that Marriott established the trust with the units it was holding at resorts which we knew were nowhere near sold-out, but that what's been conveyed doesn't represent Marriott's total holdings?

IOW, there are a lot of posts here that say the possibility of successful exchanges within this new system is severely limited because the inventory will be restricted to this published list of only a few resorts combined with any weeks deposited by Enrolled Owners for exchanges, any weeks exchanged by Owners for MRP and any weeks given by Owners to the Rental Program. (As well, I believe like many others that Marriott can and will take Weeks deposited to II to satisfy Enrolled requests.) But can't Marriott convey further units that they may have been holding at the time of roll-out to the trust any time?

dioxide45 · Jun 28, 2010

potchak said:
I thought the trust documents would have said how many pts were available in total for the resort. Guess not. Supposedly one of the Customer Advocacy folks is supposed to get back to us and let us know how many pts are available for Timberlodge. We shall see.

Looks like about 6.15 million points for Timber Lodge and over 40 million total. This was found in the individual notices.

SueDonJ said:
VERY nice work, Dioxide, thanks!

How much should we be relying on the supposition that these units conveyed to the trust are the only units Marriott had available at the time it was set up? These are obviously units from the resorts which have not sold out, right? Well, as Shorty points out, there is no correlation between these and the total number of units at each resort. As well, we have no idea how many units Marriott is holding at other resorts that are not sold-out, or how many deed-backs Marriott is holding at the sold-out resorts. (I know there was a list of inventory at SurfWatch that my sales rep had two weeks before roll-out, and she also had at least one Barony unit that had been given back in an "equity trade-up.")

Isn't it possible that Marriott established the trust with the units it was holding at resorts which we knew were nowhere near sold-out, but that what's been conveyed doesn't represent Marriott's total holdings?

IOW, there are a lot of posts here that say the possibility of successful exchanges within this new system is severely limited because the inventory will be restricted to this published list of only a few resorts combined with any weeks deposited by Enrolled Owners for exchanges, any weeks exchanged by Owners for MRP and any weeks given by Owners to the Rental Program. (As well, I believe like many others that Marriott can and will take Weeks deposited to II to satisfy Enrolled requests.) But can't Marriott convey further units that they may have been holding at the time of roll-out to the trust any time?

I am also curious about resorts that were not in the trust but were not sold out. Harbour Lake is not conveyed to the trust and it definitely isn't sold out. I am not sure what Marriott's motives are behind not including all resorts in the trust that they owned weeks for. Also there were likely some foreclosed units and reacquired that were not conveyed.

taffy19 · Jul 8, 2010

Dioxide45, thank you very much for posting this information. Since we own a fixed week/unit, I checked all the information in the PDF file and noticed that 11 condos were transferred in the Trust for the MOC Lahaina and Napili towers. If you add 11 X 52 then you get 572 ownership interests which is correct. However, I know for a fact that quite a few fixed weeks were still not sold at other units either that are not mentioned in the PDF file so are not in the trust.

What is Marriott doing with them if they no longer want to sell timeshare weeks? I wonder how this is for all the floating units too? Are they not in the trust either if all 52 weeks were not sold for a particular condo?

PS. I just compared all the unit numbers of the brochure that shows the fixed week/units at the two towers and not a single one is included in the trust.

windje2000 · Jul 8, 2010

I suggest a link to this thread be added to the Marriott FAQ sticky.

GaryDouglas · Jul 8, 2010

The trust name used for Maui Ocean Club I & II in your attached links (First American Trust, FSB) matched my findings that I noted in this thread. It's easy to get a count of these each month from Hawaii's BOC site, although they seem to be a couple months behind.

After looking closer at the 36 deeds in the referenced thread, I realized that those weren't deeds but simply filed documents, which could have one or more deeds associated with it. When I counted them all up, it was actually around 300 deeds. I'll double check my count later, but that should be close.

hotcoffee · Jul 8, 2010

SueDonJ said:
. . . IOW, there are a lot of posts here that say the possibility of successful exchanges within this new system is severely limited because the inventory will be restricted to this published list of only a few resorts combined with any weeks deposited by Enrolled Owners for exchanges, any weeks exchanged by Owners for MRP and any weeks given by Owners to the Rental Program. (As well, I believe like many others that Marriott can and will take Weeks deposited to II to satisfy Enrolled requests.) But can't Marriott convey further units that they may have been holding at the time of roll-out to the trust any time?

Why do you say that exchanges will be "severely limited" for points exchangers? Discounting exchanges through non-afililated exchange companies, weeks exchangers will only have II to satisfy exchange requests. Points exchangers will also have II, but they will also have the Trust, other points exchanges, and MRP trades. Looks to be the other way around to me.

It was implied by my rep that there will be more additions to the Trust over time.

Whirl · Jul 8, 2010

So the first thing I checked was the Crystal Shores units to see if Marriott retained any ( I know they are sold out, as we considered buying) hoping to snag a Penthouse trade from developer inventory, but there are no Penthouse units in the Trust at this time. I could have guessed that since I have never seen a 3BR available to reserve on MArriott.com, indicating to me that they do not have it to offer. I don't know how they manage their inventory, but I assume that the developer retained weeks are the ones that come up as avail for rent and for occasional exchange in II.

Rats! Will have to wait for someone to deposit it for points or II....what's the chance of that happening?...Ha Ha!

hotcoffee · Jul 8, 2010

iconnections said:
Dioxide45, thank you very much for posting this information. Since we own a fixed week/unit, I checked all the information in the PDF file and noticed that 11 condos were transferred in the Trust for the MOC Lahaina and Napili towers. If you add 11 X 52 then you get 572 ownership interests which is correct. However, I know for a fact that quite a few fixed weeks were still not sold at other units either that are not mentioned in the PDF file so are not in the trust.

How did you know that the 572 were from the MOC Lahaina and Napili towers? I was wondering whether the 260 or the 572 were from older or the newer towers.

SueDonJ · Jul 8, 2010

hotcoffee said:
Why do you say that exchanges will be "severely limited" for points exchangers? Discounting exchanges through non-afililated exchange companies, weeks exchangers will only have II to satisfy exchange requests. Points exchangers will also have II, but they will also have the Trust, other points exchanges, and MRP trades. Looks to be the other way around to me.

It was implied by my rep that there will be more additions to the Trust over time.

No, I think we're in agreement here. Some folks are saying on TUG that Points exchangers will only have access to the inventory at the 11 resorts that are known to be conveyed to the Trust; you and I are in agreement that Marriott has access to other inventory to satisfy Points exchange requests and/or convey more inventory to the Trust.

taffy19 · Jul 8, 2010

hotcoffee said:
How did you know that the 572 were from the MOC Lahaina and Napili towers? I was wondering whether the 260 or the 572 were from older or the newer towers.

I got it from this PDF file that lists the Maui Ocean Club-Sequel. The condos in the trust are 6411, 6415, 8408, 8411, 8415, 3406, 3413, 8401, 8406, 8409 and 8413 x 52 weeks so a total of 572 ownership interests. I have a brochure that shows all the fixed unit numbers of both buildings and none of them are on this list so they must be the floating units in these two buildings. I don't know how many floating units there are but none of these condos had sold any weeks at all so there must be a lot of floating condos that have sold weeks but are not in the Trust. Maybe, I am confused?

PS. I noticed that the link didn't work but you can get the information from post #1 for the resorts that are in the Trust as of that date.

dioxide45 · Jul 8, 2010

GaryDouglas said:
The trust name used for Maui Ocean Club I & II in your attached links (First American Trust, FSB) matched my findings that I noted in this thread. It's easy to get a count of these each month from Hawaii's BOC site, although they seem to be a couple months behind.

You should also be able to look up the information on the Orange County FL recorders website. Every time interests are conveyed to the trust, Marriott must record a notice. Orange County is a lot faster with recordings.

taffy19 · Jul 8, 2010

dioxide45 said:
You should also be able to look up the information on the Orange County FL recorders website. Every time interests are conveyed to the trust, Marriott must record a notice. Orange County is a lot faster with recordings.

I got it from your first post under 20100267157 - Maui Ocean Club. That was very helpful but not all the condos are in the trust, imho. Will they add the fixed unit/weeks later? If they are not going to sell weeks anymore, what will they do with these condos? I don't believe that all the floating condos are in the trust either except for the ones that have none of the weeks sold yet. Each condo listed has 52 weeks available.

Is it the same for other condos too at different resorts? Can you check it if you know the condo unit numbers?

hotcoffee · Jul 8, 2010

iconnections said:
I got it from this PDF file that lists the Maui Ocean Club-Sequel. The condos in the trust are 6411, 6415, 8408, 8411, 8415, 3406, 3413, 8401, 8406, 8409 and 8413 x 52 weeks so a total of 572 ownership interests. I have a brochure that shows all the fixed unit numbers of both buildings and none of them are on this list so they must be the floating units in these two buildings. I don't know how many floating units there are but none of these condos had sold any weeks at all so there must be a lot of floating condos that have sold weeks but are not in the Trust. Maybe, I am confused?

PS. I noticed that the link didn't work but you can get the information from post #1 for the resorts that are in the Trust as of that date.

What I was wondering about is which number, the 572 or the 260, refers to just the MOC Lahaina and Napili towers. I've never been there, but isn't that the newer of the two MOCs?

dioxide45 · Jul 8, 2010

I am not sure why there are some units they didn't convey. In fact at Harbour Lake they didn't convey an entire resort. At MGV there are definitely partial units as only one week 1 unit is on the legal description of conveyed units.

Whirl · Jul 8, 2010

dioxide45 said:
I am not sure why there are some units they didn't convey. In fact at Harbour Lake they didn't convey an entire resort. At MGV there are definitely partial units as only one week 1 unit is on the legal description of conveyed units.

Here's a crazy thought....Maybe they are actually trying to preserve a balance of points versus weeks inventory and will transition over time. May be they are thinking about reducing inequities to the weeks owners? Just throwing out there.... I have no idea why, but it is as reasonable or speculative as any other theory out there.

taffy19 · Jul 9, 2010

hotcoffee said:
What I was wondering about is which number, the 572 or the 260, refers to just the MOC Lahaina and Napili towers. I've never been there, but isn't that the newer of the two MOCs?

This is the PDF I looked at earlier and it is the MOC Sequel for the 572 ownership interests.

20100267157 - Maui Ocean Club

This PDF seems to be individual weeks that are Reacquired. Are they foreclosures? I don't know. I saw a fixed week there too which may be a Platinum Plus week at the original building. I am not familiar with the condo numbers there. I would ask Marriott, if you are curious. Let us know what they say.

20100267092 - Maui Ocean Club II

dioxide45 said:
You can access the recorded trust documents on the Orange County FL comptroller website. Includes actual unit information of what was conveyed to the trust.

http://or.occompt.com/recorder/web/

I have done the work for you and provided the document numbers. Just search by document number.

Trust Agreement: 20100149464 (You can also search just for this document, then the related resort notices are listed on the left hand side)

Notices adding points for each trust resort:
20100267160 - Oceana Palms
20100267159 - Canyon Villas
20100267158 - Ocean Watch
20100267157 - Maui Ocean Club
20100267156 - Willow Ridge Lodge
20100267155 - Newport Coast Villas
20100267154 - Timber Lodge
20100267153 - Ko'Olina
20100267152 - Kalanipu'u
20100267151 - Crystal Shores
20100267092 - Maui Ocean Club II
20100267091 - Grande Vista

GregT · Jul 9, 2010

This is a very interesting thread -- I don't yet grasp the full implications.

It does suggest that after all the properties were transferred into the Trust, that there were 42M points to sell for those properties.

Interesting, approx 4.7M of them are for MOC -- alot more than I thought. And 6.1M are Ko Olina (approx twice as much 2BR Mountain views as 2BR OV).

This does suggest that there is a ton of Hawaii properties available. It appears that points users will find it very easy to get access to Hawaii, even if existing owners never redeem their weeks.

Hmmmm......

GregT · Jul 9, 2010

These are the points that seeded the Trust:

6,712,500 Ko Olina
6,152,250 Timberlodge
5,292,750 Oceana Palms
5,005,250 Crystal Shores
4,314,750 Newport Coast
3,605,570 MOC-Sequel
3,529,500 Kalanipu'u
2,848,500 Willow Ridge
2,303,250 Canyon Villas
1,017,750 MOC
992,000 Ocean Watch
572,000 Grand Vista
42,346,070

taffy19 · Jul 9, 2010

GregT said:
This is a very interesting thread -- I don't yet grasp the full implications.

It does suggest that after all the properties were transferred into the Trust, that there were 42M points to sell for those properties.

Interesting, approx 4.7M of them are for MOC -- alot more than I thought. And 6.1M are Ko Olina (approx twice as much 2BR Mountain views as 2BR OV).

This does suggest that there is a ton of Hawaii properties available. It appears that points users will find it very easy to get access to Hawaii, even if existing owners never redeem their weeks.

Hmmmm......

I don't know if I understand the document right but it looks to me that Marriott is not going to sell point interests in the fixed week/oceanfront units at the MOC Villas at the Lahaina and Napili towers. What will happen to these timeshare condos? Will they be added to the trust later or will Marriott just rent them out or sell them still as fixed week/units? They said that they wouldn't.

Any opinions by the experts here? I will ask them when I talk to them again as I am pretty upset. I did an II search this morning and didn't find any lock-off units available for next March. Is the well dry already or am I too early or too late?

GregT · Jul 9, 2010

iconnections said:
I don't know if I understand the document right but it looks to me that Marriott is not going to sell point interests in the fixed week/oceanfront units at the MOC Villas at the Lahaina and Napili towers. What will happen to these timeshare condos? Will they be added to the trust later or will Marriott just rent them out or sell them still as fixed week/units? They said that they wouldn't.

Any opinions by the experts here? I will ask them when I talk to them again as I am pretty upset. I did an II search this morning and didn't find any lock-off units available for next March. Is the well dry already or am I too early or too late?

I am guessing here, but I would suspect that this is the first slug of inventory that Marriott committed to the Trust, and that there is more coming.

I also didn't see any fixed weeks in here -- it is very possible that a second document will ultimately be filed that will place the final unsold inventory into the Trust, and that these were the units designated in/around March 2010.

Dioxide, can you teach me how you did the search and I'll keep searching to see if there are new additions to the Trust in the coming months? It would be instructive for us to try to maintain a spreadsheet of where the inventory is.

As an example, there are a ton of Ko Olina 2BR Mountain properties available. If/when Marriott introduces a Flexchange concept, I would think it likely that those might be bookable with discounted (and rented) points versus the expensive skimmed points.

Timberlodge appears to have alot of inventory across all seasons, so same concept is possible.

Other properties, it may truly be necessary to affect an exchange thru II -- and Marriott will probably offer 2BR Mountain View's at Ko Olina since they appear to have those units to burn.

Very interesting stuff.

Greg

hotcoffee · Jul 9, 2010

GregT said:
This is a very interesting thread -- I don't yet grasp the full implications.

It does suggest that after all the properties were transferred into the Trust, that there were 42M points to sell for those properties.

Interesting, approx 4.7M of them are for MOC -- alot more than I thought. And 6.1M are Ko Olina (approx twice as much 2BR Mountain views as 2BR OV).

This does suggest that there is a ton of Hawaii properties available. It appears that points users will find it very easy to get access to Hawaii, even if existing owners never redeem their weeks.

Hmmmm......

This is exactly the point I have been making. There is gold to be mined here for the points exchangers - not only in securing weeks at the three resorts on the list, but also via II when Marriott uses them to trade for II inventory. Let's say that a points exchanger is trying to find a 2BR at Waiohai, but there are none in the internal inventory. That does not mean that the exchange will not be satisfied because there might be one in II (either deposited or in a Request-first search). The Marriott Club Manager can use a MOC or Ko Olina week to exchange for the Waiohai week. Thus, a points exchange still gets his Waiohai week. So, the abundance of Hawaii weeks in the Trust should really help the points exchanger.

hotcoffee · Jul 9, 2010

iconnections said:
I don't know if I understand the document right but it looks to me that Marriott is not going to sell point interests in the fixed week/oceanfront units at the MOC Villas at the Lahaina and Napili towers. What will happen to these timeshare condos? Will they be added to the trust later or will Marriott just rent them out or sell them still as fixed week/units? They said that they wouldn't.

I've been told that the OF units at the MOC are sold out. There were none in that initial batch for the Trust for that reason. Perhaps you know otherwise. I was also told that there are no GV weeks in the Trust because they also were sold out. So, at least, initially, this first batch must all be OV.

Recorded Trust Documents

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

potchak

kedler

SueDonJ

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

taffy19

windje2000

GaryDouglas

hotcoffee

Whirl

hotcoffee

SueDonJ

taffy19

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

taffy19

hotcoffee

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Whirl

taffy19

GregT

TUG Member

GregT

TUG Member

taffy19

GregT

TUG Member

hotcoffee

hotcoffee