Nursing Home losses

[TravelTime]

In California, it is estimated that 41% of covid deaths have been in nursing homes and it is rising.
———-

From the article:

Gov. Gavin Newsom is recklessly pushing to place more coronavirus patients in nursing homes and assisted living facilities while COVID-19 cases and deaths are mounting rapidly in California’s care residences for the elderly.

State data shows that at least 41 percent of all known coronavirus deaths in California have occurred among residents and staff of nursing homes and assisted living facilities.

Meanwhile, the number of nursing home deaths jumped 51% in eight days from April 23-May 1. And deaths in assisted living facilities nearly doubled between April 20-May 3.

Editorial: Newsom’s failed response to COVID-19 nursing home deaths

At least 41% of California coronavirus deaths from eldercare facilities, and cases there are increasing rapidly.

www.mercurynews.com

 

[Brett]

The incompetence just continues. There is no logic in not allowing loved ones to be released and taken care of at home. So many jurisdictions are releasing people in prison. Seems they have more right then our elders.

in Virginia, as far as I know there is no "official government order" mandating people have to go to nursing homes
at least that's my experience with my parents
And I really believe our elders have more rights than prisoners ..... but it's just my opinion

 

[DavidnRobin]

We pulled my MIL from a SNF on March 14 - she passed here at our home (at home hospice) in early April. Could have been Covid - we shall never know. She wasn’t considered Covid positive because at the time her illness started (mid Feb she went into hospital with severe lung complications) there was supposedly no Covid. But, turns out Covid was being transmitted here in Santa Clara County prior to that.
So, her death doesn’t count as covid related because she was never tested.

My BIL died while in hospice at the same SNF (not covid related) 12 days prior to MIL death. He died alone because Robin couldn’t visit due to Covid.

Since then at this specific SNF, half the staff and patients are Covid positive.

Yep... going to the beach is essential...
Yep... just like the flu...
Yep... more people die from car crashes... (or whatever no related cause)
Yep... follow an Opinion versus Science


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SueDonJ]

My son is a nursing home director who has been dreading what came this week, an explosion of positive and presumptive-positive tests among his residents. One staff member has sadly already passed from it, several others have tested positive, and all of them will be tested in the coming week. Those who test positive will be forced to self-quarantine for 14 days, putting additional strain on those who don't because every similar facility is facing the same thing meaning there aren't enough qualified staff to hire as replacements.

He and his staff are doing the best they can under terrible circumstances. They're doing the best they can to comfort the residents who need it and the families who understandably hate the draconian measures that have been put in place for the residents' protection, to facilitate electronic "visits" between the residents and their families whenever possible, to continue providing as normal an experience for the residents who have yet to be affected, and to do it all while not displaying the sadness that's reflected in all that they see from behind their short-supply PPE. I've heard him cry over this and believe me, hearing my 35YO son cry over something that is out of his control through no fault of his own is gut-wrenching. It's only made worse by hearing people heap all of their frustration, anger and grief on the caregivers.

I know some TUGgers have a problem with those of us like me who can't seem to look at any of this objectively, who are having such difficulty separating the overall situation from the personal ways it's affecting all of us. I came across this and think it's as good as any explanation for why nursing homes are being hit so hard.

 

[Monykalyn]

@SueDonJ I feel for your son. This is HARD. I work in nursing homes and I'm tired of the awful "death camp" portrayal from those who really don't know or understand what happens. The aides can make more money going down the road to the gas station or fast food place, with better hours and less stress. The nurses and LPN's could work in a doctors office with better pay and less stress. Ditto just about every staff member there-from EVS to dietary. They stay because they CARE.

Who would require nursing homes to take in COVID patients and place those living in those home in harm's way?

Just about every state. Where else are they going to go?

... state directive that prohibits facilities from turning away sick COVID-19 patients, even if it means exposing others to the deadly virus.

In March, officials told nursing-home operators that they would be required to accept patients infected with the novel coronavirus who were discharged from hospitals but are still recovering and in need of care. Not only did the directive strain the state's health-care system, it also put virus-free patients in New York's nursing homes in jeopardy.

Go to FOX news as it may be a little political.

NYC and CA at least had the option of using Jarvits or the navy ships...especially NY. Gov Cuomo refused to allow those places to be used for that.
And it is LAUGHABLE that the ivory tower "experts" recommend separate CV19 "units" or facilities. REALLY? Just WHO is going to staff these? Extra PPE for them? How is a NH going to build a new unit? Some do have the space to have quarentine section, but none have a true separate spare unit. And to do that would require moving long term residents from their rooms in order to have a "spare" empty unit. Just like hospitals don't build lots of extra space with equipment and staff in stasis ready to be called in at moments notice ready to go, NH don't typically have lots of extra space (and if they do have empty wing they don't keep staff "just in case").

What kind of care do you really believe nursing home residents are receiving now, especially when family members or friends, or their social worker can not visit or see their love ones or client.? Think about how often are nursing homes inspected (maybe every six months). Now that was before the coronavirus?

Think about nursing homes care for the average American senior.? Think about the medical care for the average American? Think about how many times you have seen nursing home patients sitting along in the hallway, the recreation room or outside in the garden area for hours.

I can remember visiting some nursing facilities before the coronavirus and unless you were at a very high end costly facility. Care for patients was the pit.
IMHO.

Home health Care is the best for your love ones. IMHO.

PLEASE STOP painting all NH as evil dreadful places. Just STOP. Unless you work in one that is the "pits" you really have no idea. Some are very bad and should be shut down, but most do the best they can with dedicated staff. Home health care doesn't provide 24 hour service, nor does it always provide regular ADL help. Many families cannot provide round the clock care in between HHC visits, nor pay for private duty 24 hour nursing. Oh and BTW, CMS is doing specific infection focused surveys during this time. Did you know THAT?

Today I decided to try and find % of deaths of nursing home residents in my state and neighboring state. They were on the state sites. This is what I found.

Were those specific CV19 deaths in NH? We still have residents admitted on hospice from other diseases-that hasn't just stopped because all anyone can think about now is CV19.

He died alone because Robin couldn’t visit due to Covid.

I am so sorry-all the NH I work in have a special policy to allow family to be there if they wish (dedicated room, screening, strict policy of the family must only stay in the room etc).

 

[Panina]

@SueDonJ I feel for your son. This is HARD. I work in nursing homes and I'm tired of the awful "death camp" portrayal from those who really don't know or understand what happens. The aides can make more money going down the road to the gas station or fast food place, with better hours and less stress. The nurses and LPN's could work in a doctors office with better pay and less stress. Ditto just about every staff member there-from EVS to dietary. They stay because they CARE.
Just about every state. Where else are they going to go?
NYC and CA at least had the option of using Jarvits or the navy ships...especially NY. Gov Cuomo refused to allow those places to be used for that.
And it is LAUGHABLE that the ivory tower "experts" recommend separate CV19 "units" or facilities. REALLY? Just WHO is going to staff these? Extra PPE for them? How is a NH going to build a new unit? Some do have the space to have quarentine section, but none have a true separate spare unit. And to do that would require moving long term residents from their rooms in order to have a "spare" empty unit. Just like hospitals don't build lots of extra space with equipment and staff in stasis ready to be called in at moments notice ready to go, NH don't typically have lots of extra space (and if they do have empty wing they don't keep staff "just in case").
PLEASE STOP painting all NH as evil dreadful places. Just STOP. Unless you work in one that is the "pits" you really have no idea. Some are very bad and should be shut down, but most do the best they can with dedicated staff. Home health care doesn't provide 24 hour service, nor does it always provide regular ADL help. Many families cannot provide round the clock care in between HHC visits, nor pay for private duty 24 hour nursing. Oh and BTW, CMS is doing specific infection focused surveys during this time. Did you know THAT?
Were those specific CV19 deaths in NH? We still have residents admitted on hospice from other diseases-that hasn't just stopped because all anyone can think about now is CV19.

I am so sorry-all the NH I work in have a special policy to allow family to be there if they wish (dedicated room, screening, strict policy of the family must only stay in the room etc).

Yes but it was NC not NH. That was only nursing home residents. If you add in group home, it was higher.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes but it was NC not NH. That was only nursing home residents. If you add in group home, it was higher.

By NH, they meant Nursing Home, not New Hampshire.

 

[dioxide45]

Just about every state. Where else are they going to go?

That isn't my job to figure out, but putting COVID patients in with the most vulnerable certainly shouldn't be the fallback solution.

 

[geekette]

In California, it is estimated that 41% of covid deaths have been in nursing homes and it is rising.
———-

From the article:

Gov. Gavin Newsom is recklessly pushing to place more coronavirus patients in nursing homes and assisted living facilities while COVID-19 cases and deaths are mounting rapidly in California’s care residences for the elderly.

State data shows that at least 41 percent of all known coronavirus deaths in California have occurred among residents and staff of nursing homes and assisted living facilities.

Meanwhile, the number of nursing home deaths jumped 51% in eight days from April 23-May 1. And deaths in assisted living facilities nearly doubled between April 20-May 3.

Editorial: Newsom’s failed response to COVID-19 nursing home deaths

At least 41% of California coronavirus deaths from eldercare facilities, and cases there are increasing rapidly.

www.mercurynews.com

this is all I see in this article:
Gov. Gavin Newsom is recklessly pushing to place more coronavirus patients in nursing homes and assisted living facilities while COVID-19 cases and deaths are mounting rapidly in California’s care residences for the elderly. . .
Newsom deserves credit for leading the nation’s governors in requiring statewide sheltering to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus — although he acted only after Bay Area health officials imposed similar restrictions days earlier and he’s now moving too quickly to reopen.


That's it. Nothing here about why someone thinks Newsom is pushing anything reckless, no data, no nothing. Is there somehow more to this article than these 2 sentences?

 

[geekette]

That isn't my job to figure out, but putting COVID patients in with the most vulnerable certainly shouldn't be the fallback solution.

So, then, what? Just gripe? Is that your job? You have no idea where they should go, but don't like where they are going? Without a solution, there is no other place for them to go.

 

[dioxide45]

So, then, what? Just gripe? Is that your job? You have no idea where they should go, but don't like where they are going? Without a solution, there is no other place for them to go.

It is everyone's job to point out something that clearly is wrong and should not be happening and expecting those that are there with the education and the pay to get it right. We vote to put people in to positions to make the correct decisions for everyone involved, they clearly aren't doing that for nursing home residents.

There were reports that when two COVID patients were sent to a nursing home, they sent along five body bags. That meant that they knew there would be more death by just sending these cases there.

 

[bbodb1]

After a quick read through this thread, I don't think this perspective has been addresses BUT nursing home losses in the future figure to be quite substantial from the POV that confidence in the quality of care provided and environmental safety are diminishing. I suspect a growing number of people will eliminate nursing homes as an option as they age.

I know I will avoid this option at all costs.

 

[TravelTime]

this is all I see in this article:
Gov. Gavin Newsom is recklessly pushing to place more coronavirus patients in nursing homes and assisted living facilities while COVID-19 cases and deaths are mounting rapidly in California’s care residences for the elderly. . .
Newsom deserves credit for leading the nation’s governors in requiring statewide sheltering to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus — although he acted only after Bay Area health officials imposed similar restrictions days earlier and he’s now moving too quickly to reopen.


That's it. Nothing here about why someone thinks Newsom is pushing anything reckless, no data, no nothing. Is there somehow more to this article than these 2 sentences?

I posted this for the figures on the percentage of covid cases in nursing homes in California, not to make any point about Newsom. Frankly, I do not know much about what Newsom did or did not do regarding nursing homes.

 

[TravelTime]

After a quick read through this thread, I don't think this perspective has been addresses BUT nursing home losses in the future figure to be quite substantial from the POV that confidence in the quality of care provided and environmental safety are diminishing. I suspect a growing number of people will eliminate nursing homes as an option as they age.

I know I will avoid this option at all costs.

Nursing homes have always gotten a bad rap. Now it is even worse. I would not want to be placed in a nursing home. That is where we send people to die. I hope to be healthy enough to die at home someday. I am sure there must be some good quality nursing homes out there. Personally, I have heard of more problems with nursing homes and seen the elderly moved around after a nursing home fails them. I have also personally heard stories of people dying in nursing homes due to staff negligence.

 

[SueDonJ]

After a quick read through this thread, I don't think this perspective has been addresses BUT nursing home losses in the future figure to be quite substantial from the POV that confidence in the quality of care provided and environmental safety are diminishing. I suspect a growing number of people will eliminate nursing homes as an option as they age.

I know I will avoid this option at all costs.

I guess it's perspective. Despite all the horror happening now, after seeing what my son and his fellow caregivers are capable of doing in the worst of circumstances, I'm looking forward to someday having a bed in a nursing home staffed by those who will take on such important responsibilities with as much compassion and care. Whether it's a home where my son is Director won't be the deciding factor, but if it is then the only demand I'll put on him is to serve High Tea at 3PM every day.

 

[b2bailey]

We pulled my MIL from a SNF on March 14 - she passed here at our home (at home hospice) in early April. Could have been Covid - we shall never know. She wasn’t considered Covid positive because at the time her illness started (mid Feb she went into hospital with severe lung complications) there was supposedly no Covid. But, turns out Covid was being transmitted here in Santa Clara County prior to that.
So, her death doesn’t count as covid related because she was never tested.

My BIL died while in hospice at the same SNF (not covid related) 12 days prior to MIL death. He died alone because Robin couldn’t visit due to Covid.

Since then at this specific SNF, half the staff and patients are Covid positive.

Yep... going to the beach is essential...
Yep... just like the flu...
Yep... more people die from car crashes... (or whatever no related cause)
Yep... follow an Opinion versus Science


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While sad to hear of your MIL passing, it was wonderful that you could bring her to your home for her last days.

 

[am1]

My plan is to live at home with a few nurses, cleaner cook etc if needed. Still 45-50 years out but not interested in a nursing home.

 

[WVBaker]

‘Playing Russian Roulette’: Nursing Homes Told to Take the Infected

California, New Jersey and New York have made nursing homes accept Covid-19 patients from hospitals. Residents and workers fear the policy is risking lives.

‘Playing Russian Roulette’: Nursing Homes Told to Take the Infected (Published 2020)

California, New Jersey and New York have made nursing homes accept Covid-19 patients from hospitals. Residents and workers fear the policy is risking lives.

www.nytimes.com

 

[geekette]

I posted this for the figures on the percentage of covid cases in nursing homes in California, not to make any point about Newsom. Frankly, I do not know much about what Newsom did or did not do regarding nursing homes.

alright, I was just hoping to see the article for those numbers in context. And, yeah, what he did or did not do regarding nursing homes.

 

[bbodb1]

I guess it's perspective. Despite all the horror happening now, after seeing what my son and his fellow caregivers are capable of doing in the worst of circumstances, I'm looking forward to someday having a bed in a nursing home staffed by those who will take on such important responsibilities with as much compassion and care. Whether it's a home where my son is Director won't be the deciding factor, but if it is then the only demand I'll put on him is to serve High Tea at 3PM every day.

Aren't you a wee bit early?
I thought tea time was 4 p.m.????

 

[Panina]

The problem isn’t the nursing home or staff. Many are hard working and caring. The odds are against them with covid patients being brought to them.

Solution could be having a few nursing homes or hotels/dorms/centers set up for covid nursing patients and keep the rest as covid free as possible. Sone residence will need to be moved to other homes but it is better then them being with covid patients.

Take away the spread of covid in nursing homes and the percentage of people getting and passing from this virus goes down significantly.

 

[cman]

They're reporting 40% here in Texas.

40 percent of coronavirus deaths in Texas linked to nursing homes, assisted living centers

Nationally, the death rate for the 23 states that report long-term care fatalities is 27...

www.expressnews.com

 

[cman]

Here's the numbers or each state.

One-Third of All U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Nursing Home Residents or Workers (Published 2020)

In at least 14 states, more than half of coronavirus deaths are tied to long-term care facilities for older adults, according to a New York Times database.

www.nytimes.com

 

[SueDonJ]

It is everyone's job to point out something that clearly is wrong and should not be happening and expecting those that are there with the education and the pay to get it right. We vote to put people in to positions to make the correct decisions for everyone involved, they clearly aren't doing that for nursing home residents.

There were reports that when two COVID patients were sent to a nursing home, they sent along five body bags. That meant that they knew there would be more death by just sending these cases there.

Maybe after this is over there will be a focused effort to give the elderly population what they need in terms of end-of-life care, including providing longterm care facilities with the funding needed to build and staff facilities dedicated to treatment of pandemics and such that affect them disproportionately, but we all know that's never going to happen. Unless it does, all that can be done in future similar situations is to re-think what hasn't worked during this one, perfect what's been most successful, and hopefully have a sitting government that doesn't go out of its way to disband remedial measures that are in place before refusing to acknowledge and react appropriately when it happens.

Geekette is right that in the US longterm care facilities are the places utilized when hospitalized patients are turned out of hospital beds but still too sick to go home without expensive private nursing care. It's the nature of our healthcare system, a huge component of elderly care in particular. The nursing homes that are equipped for it have made recent efforts to segregate COVID-19 patients and dedicated certain staff to those areas, but many are not equipped to do that and even at the ones which could, other factors come into play. In the case of my son's facility, they were able to segregate the first few presumptive-positives to a wing but as expected, the explosion came all at once almost perfectly timed to two weeks to the day that a newly-symptomatic staff member tested positive. But a shortage of testing components has prevented the staff from being tested even once, never mind on a regular basis, so it's only now that the pandemic has exploded among the resident population that they've been cleared to be tested. And they're not wasting their limited testing supplies on themselves - they're contacting their own providers and using their own insurance now that they "qualify" for testing. Until now they've been screened every time they've entered the facility (temp, questions about activities, who they've seen, what other contact they may have had, etc.) But this virus is carried and transmitted asymptomatically so it's likely that despite all the best efforts at many of these facilities, and as has been completely expected, it's the staff coming and going that has caused many of the outbreaks in nursing homes. They can't temporarily live at the facilities where they work, and they're already limiting their outside activities and contacts with humanity as much as possible.

I agree with you - a whole lot of what's happening makes you shake head your head and scream in frustration, "WTF are we doing to ourselves?!" But unless we're all willing to sacrifice a whole lot to throw money at a forgotten segment of the population for something that cannot be predicted with regularity, we're just going to have to continue hoping that we get through this once-in-a-century pandemic with our humanity still intact, and hope that future generations learn from our bad examples.

 

[SteveDavis]

These are such scary times. I really fear for my parents. They are older and obviously in the high-risk category.

Stay safe everyone. I'll keep praying for all of us.