Nursing Home losses

[davidvel]

I don't think you have missed it
(politicians requiring nursing homes to accept patients who had been ill with COVID 19)

I meant I didn't see that coming up in any of the stories posted by Panina.

 

[Brett]

Right. My example was only a hypothetical to control for the difference. For example, assuming resources were available, if all of these people in assisted living or nursing homes were in their own home with appropriate care (and ID precautions), they wouldn't be constantly exposed to these other residents.

well duh !
but my mother couldn't live on her own and when the pandemic developed it was impossible to get home care providers to travel to the residence
(so I heard with some of her friends in a similar situation)

 

[Panina]

I skimmed these (with all their evil popups, etc.) but couldn't find anything that remotely said that those nursing home deaths were due to state politicians requiring nursing homes to accept patients who had been ill with COVID 19. Maybe I missed it?

Theory is recipe for disaster. Bringing a coronavirus patient into nursing home, staff is exposed and it can spread.

Discharging COVID-19 Patients To Nursing Homes Called A 'Recipe For Disaster'

New York and New Jersey want nursing homes to accept recovering hospital patients, regardless of their COVID-19 status, to free up space in hospitals. What's to keep the virus from spreading?

www.npr.org

 

[Brett]

Theory is recipe for disaster. Bringing a coronavirus patient into nursing home, staff is exposed and it can spread.

Discharging COVID-19 Patients To Nursing Homes Called A 'Recipe For Disaster'

New York and New Jersey want nursing homes to accept recovering hospital patients, regardless of their COVID-19 status, to free up space in hospitals. What's to keep the virus from spreading?

www.npr.org

yes, that could be a disaster
But I know with some assisted living facilities in northern Virginia they have not accepted any residents or visitors in the past several months

 

[Bunk]

I skimmed these (with all their evil popups, etc.) but couldn't find anything that remotely said that those nursing home deaths were due to state politicians requiring nursing homes to accept patients who had been ill with COVID 19. Maybe I missed it?

New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html

"California, New Jersey and New York have made nursing homes accept Covid-19 patients from hospitals."..."At the epicenter of the outbreak, New York issued a strict new rule last month: Nursing homes must readmit residents sent to hospitals with the coronavirus and accept new patients as long as they are deemed “medically stable.”

This is what the NYS Dept of Health Regulation issued in March 2020 says:
The New York State Department of Health said, “No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of Covid-19.” In addition, the document said, nursing homes “are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for Covid-19 prior to admission or readmission.”

If you want to see the full regulation let me know

 

[Brett]

New York Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html

"California, New Jersey and New York have made nursing homes accept Covid-19 patients from hospitals."..."At the epicenter of the outbreak, New York issued a strict new rule last month: Nursing homes must readmit residents sent to hospitals with the coronavirus and accept new patients as long as they are deemed “medically stable.”

This is what the NYS Dept of Health Regulation issued in March 2020 says:
The New York State Department of Health said, “No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of Covid-19.” In addition, the document said, nursing homes “are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for Covid-19 prior to admission or readmission.”

If you want to see the full regulation let me know

not good
nursing homes/ assisted living facilities in northern Virginia were pretty much at 100% capacity last year
My mother's assisted living facility serves all the meals in the rooms and in the past several months there has been no interaction with other residents

 

[Bunk]

Walls Street Journal
March 26, 2020

New York told nursing-home operators that they will be required to accept patients infected with the new coronavirus who are discharged from hospitals but may be still convalescing, amid more cases in the state that are straining the health-care system.

The decision will draw pushback from some nursing-home officials, who have warned that such moves endanger residents who aren’t infected by the virus, because discharged patients may still be contagious. A group representing doctors who work in nursing homes, known as AMDA, the Society for Post-Acute and Long-Term Care Medicine, said in a recent resolution that “admitting patients with suspected or documented Covid-19 infection represents a clear and present danger to all of the residents of a nursing home.”


“We’ve got an extraordinarily vulnerable population on our hands,” said Christopher Laxton, executive director of the group. Nursing homes’ older, often frail residents are particularly susceptible to the virus. Many nursing homes have also long struggled with infection control, according to federal inspection records and researchers.
Covid-19, the respiratory illness caused by the new coronavirus, has been spreading rapidly in nursing homes, resulting in large outbreaks and more deaths across the U.S. The federal government has said there are cases in at least 147 nursing homes, with clusters and deaths reported in elder-living facilities from Louisiana to Vermont to Florida.

At least 37 deaths have been tied to an outbreak in one Seattle-area nursing home, Life Care Center of Kirkland.

In the directive sent Wednesday to nursing homes, which was viewed by The Wall Street Journal, the New York State Department of Health said, “No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of Covid-19.” In addition, the document said, nursing homes “are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for Covid-19 prior to admission or readmission.”

The document noted that there is an “urgent need to expand hospital capacity in New York State to be able to meet the demand for patients with Covid-19 requiring acute care.”

A spokesman for the state’s Department of Health said that “protecting New York’s most vulnerable nursing-home population is a priority for addressing the current Covid-19 outbreak and containing the virus.” The department continues to issue guidance to nursing homes regarding testing, visitation and other matters during the outbreak, he said.

Like other health-care sectors, nursing homes have said they are struggling with a lack of personal protective equipment for their workers, and that in some cases they aren’t able to get prompt coronavirus tests for all of their residents and employees who might need them.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yo...atients-discharged-from-hospitals-11585228215

 

[Brett]

Walls Street Journal
March 26, 2020

New York told nursing-home operators that they will be required to accept patients infected with the new coronavirus who are discharged from hospitals but may be still convalescing, amid more cases in the state that are straining the health-care system.

The decision will draw pushback from some nursing-home officials, who have warned that such moves endanger residents who aren’t infected by the virus, because discharged patients may still be contagious. A group representing doctors who work in nursing homes, known as AMDA, the Society for Post-Acute and Long-Term Care Medicine, said in a recent resolution that “admitting patients with suspected or documented Covid-19 infection represents a clear and present danger to all of the residents of a nursing home.”


“We’ve got an extraordinarily vulnerable population on our hands,” said Christopher Laxton, executive director of the group. Nursing homes’ older, often frail residents are particularly susceptible to the virus. Many nursing homes have also long struggled with infection control, according to federal inspection records and researchers.
Covid-19, the respiratory illness caused by the new coronavirus, has been spreading rapidly in nursing homes, resulting in large outbreaks and more deaths across the U.S. The federal government has said there are cases in at least 147 nursing homes, with clusters and deaths reported in elder-living facilities from Louisiana to Vermont to Florida.

At least 37 deaths have been tied to an outbreak in one Seattle-area nursing home, Life Care Center of Kirkland.

In the directive sent Wednesday to nursing homes, which was viewed by The Wall Street Journal, the New York State Department of Health said, “No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of Covid-19.” In addition, the document said, nursing homes “are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for Covid-19 prior to admission or readmission.”

The document noted that there is an “urgent need to expand hospital capacity in New York State to be able to meet the demand for patients with Covid-19 requiring acute care.”

A spokesman for the state’s Department of Health said that “protecting New York’s most vulnerable nursing-home population is a priority for addressing the current Covid-19 outbreak and containing the virus.” The department continues to issue guidance to nursing homes regarding testing, visitation and other matters during the outbreak, he said.

Like other health-care sectors, nursing homes have said they are struggling with a lack of personal protective equipment for their workers, and that in some cases they aren’t able to get prompt coronavirus tests for all of their residents and employees who might need them.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yo...atients-discharged-from-hospitals-11585228215

yes, it will certainly "draw pushback from some nursing-home officials" in New York
Hopefully in the past two months New York has learned something about nursing homes and the coronavirus

 

[MrockStar]

I was tempted to comment on this but i remembered i left my flame retardant coveralls at work! maybe tomorrow.

 

[Brett]

I was tempted to comment on this but i remembered i left my flame retardant coveralls at work! maybe tomorrow.

yep

edit: I see the political post deleted
I'm thinking the poster does not like New York nursing homes

 

[pedro47]

Theory is recipe for disaster. Bringing a coronavirus patient into nursing home, staff is exposed and it can spread.

Discharging COVID-19 Patients To Nursing Homes Called A 'Recipe For Disaster'

New York and New Jersey want nursing homes to accept recovering hospital patients, regardless of their COVID-19 status, to free up space in hospitals. What's to keep the virus from spreading?

www.npr.org

Nursing homes, jails, prisons are liked cruises ships they are confined in a very closed environment breathing’s the same polluted air daily. Plus, people staying in nursing homes are elderly and have weak immune systems .

 

[Brett]

Nursing homes, jails, prisons are liked cruises ships they are confined in a very closed environment breathing’s the same polluted air daily. Plus, people staying in nursing homes are elderly and have weak immune systems .

like the cruise industry nursing homes will probably change their procedures

WSJ 5/7/2020

 

[nerodog]

I think the numbers will be much higher in nursing homes, group homes, etc then we even know now.

Just heard on a tv newscast 50% of the deaths in Massachusetts were in nursing home.

Makes me wonder how many of these residents could have been saved if things were done differently.

Totally agree. The staff bring it in and it spreads like wildfire. So sad and devastating. One of my friends in Mass is beside herself as she hasnt seen or heard anything about her mom since March. She worries and gets news from the tv. No visits allowed and staff not able to call everyone which is really sad.

 

[nerodog]

T

Right. My example was only a hypothetical to control for the difference. For example, assuming resources were available, if all of these people in assisted living or nursing homes were in their own home with appropriate care (and ID precautions), they wouldn't be constantly exposed to these other residents.

That's very true. Home care when possible us the best but it's all based on individual needs.

 

[pedro47]

What kind of care do you really believe nursing home residents are receiving now, especially when family members or friends, or their social worker can not visit or see their love ones or client.? Think about how often are nursing homes inspected (maybe every six months). Now that was before the coronavirus?

Think about nursing homes care for the average American senior.? Think about the medical care for the average American? Think about how many times you have seen nursing home patients sitting along in the hallway, the recreation room or outside in the garden area for hours.

I can remember visiting some nursing facilities before the coronavirus and unless you were at a very high end costly facility. Care for patients was the pit.
IMHO.

Home health Care is the best for your love ones. IMHO.

 

[WVBaker]

yes, it will certainly "draw pushback from some nursing-home officials" in New York
Hopefully in the past two months New York has learned something about nursing homes and the coronavirus

Let's hope they learn to appreciate the visiting healthcare workers who came to the state and change the idea of taxing them.
I'll send the link in a PM.

 

[Panina]

What can of care do you really believe nursing home residents are receiving now, especially when family members or friends, or their social worker can not visit or see their love ones or client.? Think about how often are nursing homes inspected (maybe every six months). Now that was before the coronavirus?

Think about nursing homes care for the average American senior.? Think about the medical care for the average American? Think about how many times you have seen nursing home patients sitting along in the hallway, the recreation room or outside in the garden area for hours.

I can remember visiting some nursing facilities before the coronavirus and unless you were at a very high end costly facility. Care for patients was the pit.
IMHO.

Home health Care is the best for your love ones. IMHO.

When my dad was in a nursing home which I considered to be a better one I made sure someone was there everyday, different times. This made the staff know we were watching. I believe this helped in him getting the best attention for care.

 

[dioxide45]

When my dad was in a nursing home which I considered to be a better one I made sure someone was there everyday, different times. This made the staff know we were watching. I believe this helped in him getting the best attention for care.

I agree. The family is the best advocate for those in nursing homes or even hospitals. Without that advocate I don't trust that these people are getting the best care.

 

[rapmarks]

An analysis in newspaper today shower half the deaths in lee and collier county were in nursing homes. That is fort Myers and naples area.

 

[Brett]

I agree. The family is the best advocate for those in nursing homes or even hospitals. Without that advocate I don't trust that these people are getting the best care.

I also agree, - but visits have been curtailed the past several months making it difficult to monitor the caregiving

 

[DannyTS]

Because nobody in the family was working and now they could temporarily take care of their parents, in Canada many wanted to take their elder parents home but they were not allowed to. I do not know if it was an official government order or if the nursing homes feared they would lose business but the result is that the residents were just trapped and got the virus when they could have just been safer and happier home with their families.

 

[Panina]

Because nobody in the family was working and now they could temporarily take care of their parents, in Canada many wanted to take their elder parents home but they were not allowed to. I do not know if it was an official government order or if the nursing homes feared they would lose business but the result is that the residents were just trapped and got the virus when they could have just been safer and happier home with their families.

The incompetence just continues. There is no logic in not allowing loved ones to be released and taken care of at home. So many jurisdictions are releasing people in prison. Seems they have more right then our elders.

 

[TravelTime]

My grandmother was placed in a nursing home when her Altzheimers got too hard for my family to handle. Years before this, my father, who was born and raised until age 14 in Cuba, was very critical of Americans. He would say that Americans put their elders out to the pasture and he would never do that to his family. Then her altzheimers became too much to handle and she would become violent with her home care worker and she would leave the house and disappear and the police would bring her back home. My father was the primary caretaker. There were only 2 sons and my uncle lived too far away to help with her care. So my father made the difficult decision to place her in a nursing home. The nursing home was not that great. She got bed sores because she was not turned enough. My father had to visit and monitor to make sure she was being taken care of. From this experience, my impression of nursing homes is not good.

 

[isisdave]

In a way, nursing homes, dormitories, prisons and any other congregate living situations, along with places like meat packing plants where the nature of the work puts people close to each other, are going to be the models for loosening of sheltering and distancing regulations. So would cruise ships, if they're allowed to resume in the next few months. These would probably show how bad things could get' I'd guess that in the larger population the new infection rate won't be as high because the density is less.

 

[Panina]

Today I decided to try and find % of deaths of nursing home residents in my state and neighboring state. They were on the state sites. This is what I found.


NC total deaths 507
Nursing homes 250
49%

SC total deaths 283
Nursing homes 84
30%