NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

[Luckybee]

The trust has 42MM points, they have maybe sold 2MM max. There is lots of inventory there. I am willing to bet that the trust has bulk deposited plenty of points in to the exchange company for enrolled members. No one will have any issues Monday trying to book trust inventory.

Did you interpret the comments that legacy owners who enroll do get access to the trust inventory? The fact that the response seperated the new points owners from legacy owners as seen below led me to think the opposite

The inventory that owners of the new points product have direct access to at any resort consists of weeks that are actually owned by the Trust.

and

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory.

Destination club inventory I understood to be weeks deposited by owners who wish to exchange for points. In other words not the trust inventory ? Imho this seems to me to confirm that there is no access to the trust inventory.

 

[dioxide45]

I envision a big boardroom at MVCI home offices with three big buckets full of cookies and a big barrel of marbles. Each time someone calls in on Monday, the rep puts them on hold and goes in to the boardroom to try and snag the reservation (errr, cookie).

 

[dioxide45]

Did you interpret the comments that legacy owners who enroll do get access to the trust inventory? The fact that the response seperated the new points owners from legacy owners as seen below led me to think the opposite

The inventory that owners of the new points product have direct access to at any resort consists of weeks that are actually owned by the Trust.

and

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory.

Destination club inventory I understood to be weeks deposited by owners who wish to exchange for points. In other words not the trust inventory ? Imho this seems to me to confirm that there is no access to the trust inventory.

In legal speak, there is no access to trust inventory. But Marriott doesn't want weeks to go to waste, they won't be able to rent them. They will bulk bank just like they do today with II. I just don't see it opperating a lot differently.

 

[Luckybee]

In legal speak, there is no access to trust inventory. But Marriott doesn't want weeks to go to waste, they won't be able to rent them. They will bulk bank just like they do today with II. I just don't see it opperating a lot differently.

I think we both agree they dont have to though and will only do so to get the weeks enrolled and exchanged for points ie: make it attractive now and who cares later ! It is imho abundantly clear that enrolled legacy owners will only get access to that inventory until such time as there are point owners who want that inventory (which may be a while).

 

[californiagirl]

"Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of inventory that owners of weeks have elected to place into the new points exchange program. "

So it also seems that new points owners also have access to the weeks we trade for points as well.:annoyed: We have less inventory and more people trying to take it. This really stinks!

I agree with a previous poster that initially Marriott will try every way they can to fulfill every request, so they can call their new program a success. I think it will be months until we really see what the true limitations will be.

 

[hotcoffee]

From the Enrolled Owner page on the my-vacationclub.com WEB page:

As an Enrolled Owner, once you’ve elected Vacation Club Points, you may make a reservation directly within the Marriott Vacation Club Collection of resorts, book a vacation through the Explorer Colection, or use your Vacation Club Points for an Interval International confirmation.

Marriott Vacation Club Collection 5
When can I make a reservation?
Seven or more nights: Enrolled Owners may request and reserve any resort in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program (Exchange Program) starting 12 months prior to the first check-in date, based on availability.

From the Points Owner page on the WEB my-vacationclub.com page:

Marriott Vacation Club Collection 5
When can I make a reservation?
Seven or more nights: Vacation Club Points Owners may request and reserve any resort in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program (Exchange Program) starting 12 months prior to the first check-in date, based on availability.


5
The Marriott Vacation Club Collection is comprised of timeshare interests owned by the MVC Trust and available for usage through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations timeshare plan and timeshare interests available for usage through the MVC Exchange Company; please see the applicable Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program documents for more information. Resorts with property that comprise the MVC Trust are described in the documents provided at the time of sale, and more particularly on the exhibit entitled Component Site Chart, which may be revised from time to time. Request for occupancy at resorts with small amounts of property in the MVC Trust, as set forth in the Component Site Chart, will be fulfilled primarily through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. As of 6/20/2010, there are currently timeshare interests located at 11 resorts owned by the MVC Trust and those resorts are designated with the symbol . As of 6/20/2010, there are currently 53 resorts, including the aforementioned 11 resorts, with timeshare interests available for exchange through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program, and those resorts are designated with the symbol . Please see the applicable Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program documents for more information.

Crumble go the cookies. . . .

 

[windje2000]

The response from Marriott
I'm comfortable with the following, which is the exact wording I have been given by a Marriott person that I trust to know what he is talking about: I don't have any more info. So it's unlikely that I will be able to respond well to any follow-up questions.

That language is for the various responses that posters in this thread have received from Owners Services and from Customer Advocacy to the topic of this thread, as summarized in the following quote from an earlier post:

Thank you DaveM

I'm sure there's more of your time and effort in this post than we'll ever know.

 

[5infam]

So it sounds like most folks here were correct, in that Trust Points owners get access to all the options - and enrolled weeks owners have to wait for trust points to be deposited (either by a trust points owner or by Marriott) before they can access the trust points. So it is simply an exchange system, not a reservation system for enrolled weeks owners.

Now what about if you buy more points - has that been answered yet as to what you will or will not have access to - commingling, etc.?

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

We are back at square #1...

If a point was a point, they would have said so. What they are saying is that Trust owners have access to the trust inventory + exchange inventory in its entirety. Legacy point players have access to the Exchange company + the amount of trust inventory in points equal to that removed from the exchange inventory by trust owners. The legal interpretation is that a point is not a point..

However, MVCD probably owns 95% of the trust. As they do now with unsold inventory, they can do as they please with it. They can rent, sell more, deposit in II and deposit in the Exchange company. They do this now with unsold inventory....

I believe there will be a functional co-mingling and a legal distinction between the two...

My guru states that purchasing 1000 trust points does not magically make your legacy points perform like trust points... It is a legal distinction of inventory, not a punitive plot by MVCD. I do believe that it will be functionally seamless (I know I am drinking the Kool aid again) I am an eternal cynical optimist...

 

[NJDave]

I wonder what meant by the phrase "elected to place into the new points exchange program"? One can interpret this to mean exchanging for points. If that was meant, why not phrase it that way? Such wording would be consistent with the wording in paragraph that follows in the response. Was the differing language intentional?

I have a suspicion that Marriott (i.e. the trust) gains access to inventory of enrolled members regardless of whether the member actually exchanges for points. I thought this on day one and still have that concern. I don't think it is far fetched to believe that a member gives up their week to the trust and the trust provides equivalent inventory to Interval.


Quotes

The inventory that owners of the new points product have direct access to at any resort consists of weeks that are actually owned by the Trust. Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of inventory that owners of weeks have elected to place into the new points exchange program.

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks continue to have access to inventory at their home resort and Interval International exchange inventory, as they have in the past. Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory.

 

[tombo]

What a great program Marriott launched for it's loyal customers. Marriott skims some of your points if you convert and deposit your week for points. Marriott takes away some of your voting rights if you convert to points. And now it is confirmed that the points you receive after Marriott takes their skim are not as valuable as points purchased from marriott because you can't access all the inventory that people who buy points from Marriott have access to. Top it off with the fact that as a legacy points owner you can't ever access the trust inventory, but the trust points owners can access all the legacy weeks points inventory on the same day and time that you can. This means that trust points owners are competing with you for all legacy inventory deposited for points on an equal footing while not allowing you any access to trust points ever. This program that I have hated from the get go is worse than I ever imagined it would be.


I hope Marriott points sales rival the success of the introduction of the Yugo auto in the US.

 

[gblotter]

3 buckets? I don't see that from the "official" response posted by Dave.

From my reading, the "trust inventory" will be equally accessible by points owners and enrolled owners who elect to trade via points. The only distinction seems to be that enrolled owners have an additional advantage over points owners with the option to access the "weeks inventory" in addition to the "trust inventory".

Am I missing something here?

 

[hotcoffee]

"Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of inventory that owners of weeks have elected to place into the new points exchange program. "

So it also seems that new points owners also have access to the weeks we trade for points as well.:annoyed: We have less inventory and more people trying to take it. This really stinks!

I agree with a previous poster that initially Marriott will try every way they can to fulfill every request, so they can call their new program a success. I think it will be months until we really see what the true limitations will be.

From Dave’s post:

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory.

From the MVCI WEB site:

As of 6/20/2010, there are currently timeshare interests located at 11 resorts owned by the MVC Trust . . . .

As of 6/20/2010, there are currently 53 resorts, including the aforementioned 11 resorts, with timeshare interests available for exchange through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program . . . .

 

[Michigan Czar]

I hope Marriott points sales rival the success of the introduction of the Yugo auto in the US.

....Or the success of New Coke!

Wow! I am glad I purchased where I want to vacation, no way would I ever join this point program.

 

[hotcoffee]

3 buckets? I don't see that from the "official" response posted by Dave.

From my reading, the "trust inventory" will be equally accessible by points owners and enrolled owners who elect to trade via points. The only distinction seems to be that enrolled owners have an additional advantage over points owners by being able to access the "weeks inventory" in addition to the "trust inventory".

Am I missing something here?

Nope. You got it exactly right. Non-enrolled weeks owners have access to inventory at their own resort and II. Enrolled weeks owners have access to inventory at their own resort and II plus all of the inventory in the Destination Points Program including all of the inventory of the 11 resorts in the Trust.

 

[tombo]

Nope. You got it exactly right. Non-enrolled weeks owners have access to inventory at their own resort and II. Enrolled weeks owners have access to inventory at their own resort and II plus all of the inventory in the Destination Points Program including all of the inventory of the 11 resorts in the Trust.

They never said that, and Dave specifically asked. It would have been the simplest response ever:

"Legacy weeks owners who convert to points have access to everything that direct points purchasers have access to including the trust inventory."

Marriott did not say that in response to Dave. This is what they said:

" The inventory that owners of the NEW POINTS PRODUCTS HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO ANY RESORT consists of weeks that are actually owned by the TRUST. Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of INVENTORY THAT OWNERS OF WEEKS HAVE ELECTED TO PLACE INTO THE NEW POINTS EXCHANGE PROGRAM.

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks continue to have access to inventory at their home resort and Interval International exchange inventory, as they have in the past. OWNERS OF MARRIOTT VACATION CLUB WEEKS WHO ENROLL IN THE POINTS PRODUCT ELECT TO EXCHANGE FOR VACATION CLUB POINTS HAVE ACCESS TO MARRIOTT VACATION DESTINATIONS INVENTORY AND INTERVAL INTERNATIONAL EXCHANGE INVENTORY."

Nowhere does it say that weeks owners have access to the trust, and Dave specifically asked that question. The doublespeak is the answer. Trust get access to everything. Weeks don't get access to the trust.

 

[hipslo]

3 buckets? I don't see that from the "official" response posted by Dave.

From my reading, the "trust inventory" will be equally accessible by points owners and enrolled owners who elect to trade via points. The only distinction seems to be that enrolled owners have an additional advantage over points owners with the option to access the "weeks inventory" in addition to the "trust inventory".

Am I missing something here?

that is how I read, it, too.

 

[dioxide45]

They never said that, and Dave specifically asked. It would have been the simplest response ever:

"Legacy weeks owners who convert to points have access to everything that direct purchasers have access to including the trust."

Marriott did not say that in response to Dave. This is what they said:

" The inventory that owners of the NEW POINTS PRODUCTS HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO ANY RESORT consists of weeks that are actually owned by the TRUST. Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of inventory that owners of weeks have elected to place into the new points exchange program.

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks continue to have access to inventory at their home resort and Interval International exchange inventory, as they have in the past. Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory."

Nowhere does it say that weeks owners have access to the trust, and Dave specifically asked that question. The doublespeak is the answer. Trust get access to everything. Weeks don't get access to the trust.

Exactly, the Marriott Vacations Club Destinations is the exchange company, not the trust.

 

[Michigan Czar]

They never said that, and Dave specifically asked. It would have been the simplest response ever:

"Legacy weeks owners who convert to points have access to everything that direct points purchasers have access to including the trust inventory."

Marriott did not say that in response to Dave. This is what they said:

" The inventory that owners of the NEW POINTS PRODUCTS HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO ANY RESORT consists of weeks that are actually owned by the TRUST. Any other occupancy by owners of the new points product at a resort, is of inventory that owners of weeks have elected to place into the new points exchange program.

Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks continue to have access to inventory at their home resort and Interval International exchange inventory, as they have in the past. Owners of Marriott Vacation Club weeks who enroll in the points product and elect to exchange for Vacation Club points have access to Marriott Vacation Club Destinations inventory and Interval International exchange inventory."

Nowhere does it say that weeks owners have access to the trust, and Dave specifically asked that question. The doublespeak is the answer. Trust get access to everything. Weeks don't get access to the trust.

This is exactly the way I interpret Marriott's statement too. If legacy weeks had access to the trust they would just say so.

It's obviously this way, why would it take days to respond if everyone had the same access to all of the inventory. Another "Marriott enhancement".

 

[BocaBum99]

The response from Marriott
I'm comfortable with the following, which is the exact wording I have been given by a Marriott person that I trust to know what he is talking about: I don't have any more info. So it's unlikely that I will be able to respond well to any follow-up questions.

That language is for the various responses that posters in this thread have received from Owners Services and from Customer Advocacy to the topic of this thread, as summarized in the following quote from an earlier post:

Dave,

You feel comfortable. So, you seemed to get some clarity from your Marriott contact. For me, I am as confused as ever. Can you answer one simple question?

Do enrolled weeks owners have EQUAL access to ALL points inventory or not? That's the only thing we want to know and it's the only question that wasn't answered.

 

[Michigan Czar]

Exactly, the Marriott Vacations Club Destinations is the exchange company, not the trust.

Totally agree, you said it better than me.

3 buckets- Interval, Trust, and Marriott Vacations Club Destinations (Marriott exchange company).

 

[hotcoffee]

Dave,

You feel comfortable. So, you seemed to get some clarity from your Marriott contact. For me, I am as confused as ever. Can you answer one simple question?

Do enrolled weeks owners have EQUAL access to ALL points inventory or not? That's the only thing we want to know and it's the only question that wasn't answered.

I agree that given the build-up it was a pretty poor statement from someone who was going to answer all of the questions. Nothing but ambiguity with no substantive information at all.

Fortunately, the WEB site does answer the questions, and the WEB site agrees with the documents and agrees with the points person I have been communicating with.

We will find out on Monday.

 

[JimC]

If I understand MVCI's response to Dave...

The 11 resorts are the only "real" inventory in the trust. And the inventory at those 11 resorts are only the unsold, but built and available for occupancy inventory, most likely the least desirable weeks left over.

The 42 other resorts are only available if a weeks owner deposits or exchanges into the trust. Same issue for the 11 trust resorts for the inventory already sold as weeks -- the inventory is only available in the trust if a weeks owner deposits or exchanges.

Any owner using points, whether purchased directly or exchanged from weeks, can access the trust inventory.

So only one bucket or am I still confused?

 

[5infam]

Yes, I think enrolled owners have access to the Trust, but not as a reservation system. They only get access when a trust points owners puts in a request and Marriott needs to pull it (fullfill their request) out of the Weeks Exchange System. So advantage goes to the Trsut Points owner, who gets to see everything first. If it is not in the exchange company, weeks can not access the Trust.

 

[tombo]

I agree that given the build-up it was a pretty poor statement from someone who was going to answer all of the questions. Nothing but ambiguity with no substantive information at all.

Fortunately, the WEB site does answer the questions, and the WEB site agrees with the documents and agrees with the points person I have been communicating with.

We will find out on Monday.

Get your point person to put it in writing on a Marriott letterhead that legacy weeks owners who convert to points will have access to all trust inventory. If that is the case, why does Marriott refuse to simply state it?

It took Dave's source days to respond, and after days spent researching and consulting he wouldn't make that statement.

We found out the answer we already knew when they responded to Dave without promising that legacy weeks points owners would have access to trust inventory.