NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

[BocaBum99]

would you join for $1495/$1995?

I would be much more careful about spending that much to see what's behind the curtain.

 

[Dave M]

I have had contact with the person I deem most appropriate to respond to the topic of this forum. I gave him links to individual posts with all of the different responses from Marriott so that he doesn't have to wade through this entire thread. He is reviewing the info and I expect to hear back from him on Tuesday afternoon.

Dave

 

[JimC]

Thank you, Dave!

 

[DanCali]

Hats off to BocaBoy

It took lots of us more than two weeks to figure out that points are not points (Trust Points > Legacy Points) and that this is set up as an exchange company.

BocaBoy pointed this out on June 22 (in what appears to be his 5th post ever on TUG). All we had to do was listen...

Greg T's post shows again that TUG members are reacting negatively without understanding the new program as it relates to existing owners IT IS AN ADDITIONAL EXCHANGE PROGRAM for us. They are taking nothing away from us.

This is the earliest I found any reference to this idea - so kudos.

 

[urple2]

Well...ok...but regardless...how are they not taking anything away from us if they can raid II and take our deposits to shore up their points program?

 

[Dave M]

Bill -

We don't know that they are.

Both Marriott and II represent that II still follows the comparable exchange methodology, meaning that if Marriott is able to take a week from II, it must give a comparable week, not a dog week, to II.

II, which has a contract with Marriott but is not owned by Marriott, would be doing its shareholders a disservice if it allowed Marriott to "raid" II for the best weeks without putting comparable weeks in to replace them.

 

[urple2]

Ok Dave. Thanks for the clarification. I guess time will tell with all of this for all of us.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

Let's for the moment cease any discussion regarding good points and evil points... let's instead focus on the premise that for legacy owners, nothing really changes if we stay in weeks...

nothing changes EXCEPT for the ability to do II exchanges. MVCI a previous participant (seller of the currency/weeks and depositor) now morphs into MVCD an active competitor (active exchanger) in the II exchange this. How do we know this??? They put it in large letters in the FAQ's regarding filling trust members requests!!! There is nothing hidden in this game.


in the old world MVCI depsoited if it was in a good mood but didn't exchange, now they are an active exchanger as well...

How can inventory in possibly remain the same when the major players moves from a depositor to an exchanger...Is there anyone in TUG land believe that II availability will remain constant or increase???

 

[travelplanner70]

If Legacy owners will most likely exchange their full weeks rather than convert to points and get a fraction of the value of the timeshare, why would a legacy owner spend $1495 to join? What are truly the benefits to Legacy owners to join? If a Legacy owner does not want to go on a vacation for just 5 days or does not need to go Thursday through Sunday and use up the points they would normally have for a full week exchange, what compels Legacy owners to spend $1495? Also, I have a resale week. Marriott will sell my week for me, but as has been pointed out, how vigorously are they going to try to sell a deeded week when they need to sell points? Am I missing something? Thanks for your help to clarify.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

In a nutshell, it all boils down to this!!!

There are now 2 owner types

#1 Legacy owners
#2 Trust owners.

Legacy owners are primarily weeks users and exchangers with the ability to enroll and dabble in 'points". The point game is for the most part another exchange option without most of "reservation" power given to the trust points...

Trust owners are primarily "points" players whose points function as a reservation currency with more access to inventory than Legacy points. Trust players can also play in weeks by depositing their points in II in exchange for "weeks", but this "weeks" option for the trust players is not as strong as the legacy use of weeks!!!

neither group truly has the "best of both worlds". Both have a mildly to moderately watered down version of both. MVCD probably looks at this as a "wash"..

This is what happens when you take a mature 25 year old TS system weeks based and change the rules mid-stream...

I wish them well....

I am going to my sales presentation at Lakeshore 7/21. I have already decided that if I forked over another $9200 it would be for a primo deeded week discounted resale somewhere that I really want to visit every year and would not enroll in new program (can't anyway!!!) and not points that I can't combine with my legacy points... There is no way that MVCD wil lbe able to magically convert legacy points to trust points with a small purchase of trust points. It would defeat every legal piece of logic regarding distinction of the "trust"...

 

[windje2000]

good evening....

In a nutshell, it all boils down to this!!!

There are now 2 owner types

#1 Legacy owners
#2 Trust owners.

Legacy owners are primarily weeks users and exchangers with the ability to enroll and dabble in 'points". The point game is for the most part another exchange option without most of "reservation" power given to the trust points...

Trust owners are primarily "points" players whose points function as a reservation currency with more access to inventory than Legacy points. Trust players can also play in weeks by depositing their points in II in exchange for "weeks", but this "weeks" option for the trust players is not as strong as the legacy use of weeks!!!

neither group truly has the "best of both worlds". Both have a mildly to moderately watered down version of both. MVCD probably looks at this as a "wash"..

This is what happens when you take a mature 25 year old TS system weeks based and change the rules mid-stream...

I wish them well....

I am going to my sales presentation at Lakeshore 7/21. I have already decided that if I forked over another $9200 it would be for a primo deeded week discounted resale somewhere that I really want to visit every year and would not enroll in new program (can't anyway!!!) and not points that I can't combine with my legacy points... There is no way that MVCD wil lbe able to magically convert legacy points to trust points with a small purchase of trust points. It would defeat every legal piece of logic regarding distinction of the "trust"...

We're all 'resale' owners now

 

[m61376]

We're all 'resale' owners now

If it wasn't so sad it would be a very funny comment. Last year when all the diatribe between direct and resale purchasers cropped up and a few people here suggested that, basically, resale buyers deserved whatever limitations were imposed because they had no right to expect anything more than what was specifically in their purchase agreements/deeds, I had admonished that we should be careful what we wish for, because once Marriott started imposing restrictions on one subset of owners that likely other owners would eventually suffer. It is unfortunate that Marriott has chosen to categorize its customer base; I think it devalues everyone's ownership.

No one really benefits from split inventory. While I understand that flipping between inventory "should" work seamlessly, the real life application remains to be seen. I'm guessing every owner group will see some erosion of availability just because of the logistics of the systems. There are very few winners in this system; more of us seem to be losing than gaining here.

For a company that derives half its business from its existing customer base, it's particularly unfortunate that many existing customers will be reluctant at best to continue to recommend Marriott timeshares. The existing customers are like the unwanted stepchild- part of the "family" because they have to be incorporated, but never quite fully belonging and never quite able to enjoy all the family events.

 

[Dave M]

Please read!

As I stated in a post other than the one I am quoting here, I asked my Marriott contact about this issue. After he thoroughly investigated the issue and the responses, we talked this afternoon and I'm pretty comfortable with the response. Part of the problem is that people have asked slightly different questions and, thus, have gotten some different responses. (Please don't tear that statement apart, because it's not the key to the answer.)

My contact is in the process of writing something that will be intended for publication here. That "should be" within the next 48 hours or so. I don't want to post the answer until then, because I would likely get it wrong!

When I post it here, I will also edit the first post in this thread, solely for the purpose of linking my conclusion post, but otherwise not altering that OP.

Yes, this thread is a "WOW!”

I'll try to find out something authoritative, but considering the variety of "authoritative" responses that people have reported in this thread, I don't have a lot of confidence that anything I find out can be relied upon. I will ask for a written statement for publication here and ask if Marriott can publish some clarifying information. I'm skeptical as to whether that request will be honored.

What a mess!

As I understand it there have basically been four different responses to the points access question for enrolled owners. Enrolled owners who elect to use points for a particular year...

1) have access to all inventory in Marriott's hands (trust inventory, enrolled week deposits, legacy weeks traded for Marriott Rewards points, etc.) or ...

2) have access only to weeks owned by other enrolled owners who elected to use points for the given year or ....

3) have access to all inventory in Marriott's hands, but only if they buy a minimum of 1,000 points at $9.20 each or ...

4) have access only to weeks owned by other enrolled owners who elected to use points for the given year if they use points. And if they buy a minimum of 1,000 points they will not be able to combine those points with their elected points for the year to access all inventory.

Does that about cover it? Or did I miss a major response?

Thursday is a very busy mostly non-TUG day for me, but I'll do my best to get the query started.

 

[BocaBum99]

Please read!

As I stated in a post other than the one I am quoting here, I asked my Marriott contact about this issue. After he thoroughly investigated the issue and the responses, we talked this afternoon and I'm pretty comfortable with the response. Part of the problem is that people have asked slightly different questions and, thus, have gotten some different responses. (Please don't tear that statement apart, because it's not the key to the answer.)

My contact is in the process of writing something that will be intended for publication here. That "should be" within the next 48 hours or so. I don't want to post the answer until then, because I would likely get it wrong!

When I post it here, I will also edit the first post in this thread, solely for the purpose of linking my conclusion post, but otherwise not altering that OP.

Dave,

How could you just tease us like that? I feel like I just saw the end of the Empire Struck back and I had to wait until the next movie before I find out what happened to Han Solo.

 

[siberiavol]

Please read!

As I stated in a post other than the one I am quoting here, I asked my Marriott contact about this issue. After he thoroughly investigated the issue and the responses, we talked this afternoon and I'm pretty comfortable with the response. Part of the problem is that people have asked slightly different questions and, thus, have gotten some different responses. (Please don't tear that statement apart, because it's not the key to the answer.)

My contact is in the process of writing something that will be intended for publication here. That "should be" within the next 48 hours or so. I don't want to post the answer until then, because I would likely get it wrong!

When I post it here, I will also edit the first post in this thread, solely for the purpose of linking my conclusion post, but otherwise not altering that OP.

I am looking forward to getting updated information and thanks for your work. I think most of us want to understand exactly what if anything is available to enrolled owners from the two entities that have ownership in the new trust. Those are Marriott who currently owns the majority of the trust and people who have purchased points.

II has been able to explain how their system works to my satisfaction. A satisfactory answer from Marriott for me would include how Marriott as a partial owner in the trust will distribute their owned trust properties to the enrolled owners. If the answer is "they won't" then let us know. If the answer is they will release after requests or they will deposit some or all first and an enrolled owner can find them let us know.

 

[Dave M]

How could you just tease us like that?

I apologize. However, I had indicated last week that I expected to hear back by Tuesday - today. Thus, I wanted to report that Marriott is following through appropriately and that I will have an answer. If I tried to give you a synopsis, I know I would mess it up. That's why my contact agreed to write something for publication.

 

[BocaBoy]

It is now Wednesday. Did they get back to you?

 

[camachinist]

Dave did start a new thread with a response from a Marriott contact. I don't know whether that answers your question or not...

 

[BocaBoy]

The "new thread" is a slightly different question and the Marriott response is a little earlier than Dave's post saying an answer is forthcoming. The other thread concerns two pools of weeks--one to book weeks and one to use for points. The current thread deals only with the weeks available FOR POINTS. The question here is whether the weeks owners and the points owners have access to the same pool when using points and whether exchange points and purchased points can be combined when you book.

 

[Michigan Czar]

Dave - It is Friday, did you receive any written response yet? I am anxiously awaiting Marriott's response to your questions from this thread.

 

[windje2000]

Dave - It is Friday, did you receive any written response yet? I am anxiously awaiting Marriott's response to your questions from this thread.

Patience is required

It would appear that many lawyers, ad hoc committees, consultants and senior management meetings - with numerous back and forth discussion drafts - are necessary to answer straightforward procedural questions about a program that's been in development for four years.

Unless they're simply stonewalling.

 

[Dave M]

Yes, I have received a written explanation. Still working with it. It could be Sunday or Monday before I post.

Thanks for checking.

 

[Michigan Czar]

Yes, I have received a written explanation. Still working with it. It could be Sunday or Monday before I post.

Thanks for checking.

Thanks for the update Dave!

 

[tombo]

Patience is required

It would appear that many lawyers, ad hoc committees, consultants and senior management meetings - with numerous back and forth discussion drafts - are necessary to answer straightforward procedural questions about a program that's been in development for four years.

Unless they're simply stonewalling.

The correct spin must be placed on the new program to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If it was simply points is points no matter whether it is a legacy week converted to points or points purchased from Marriott, that could have been answered in less than an hour in one simple statement. To formulate a game plan for days to respond to the TUG owners means some BS deflections, half truths, legal what ifs, possibilities, and other subterfuge responses are headed our way.

The fact that Dave is still trying to figure out what Marriott's response really means days after he received it says enough. Points bought from Marriott are now or will be in the future more valuable than points derived from legacy weeks deposited for points. Points purchased from Marriott will have access to inventory not available for Legacy owners (unless they make exceptions for owners who also buy points). Simple response in plain english, in some legal way or another all points aren't equal.

 

[Y-ASK]

Simple response in plain english, in some legal way or another all points aren't equal.

Yep! I'd probaby have to agree with this evalution at this time. My BS meter is going off big time, just waiting for the dance to begin...

Y-ASK