NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

[hotcoffee]

Those numbers were posted in this thread (post #68 over 48 hours ago by the person who got them in response to a question to Marriott.

Those numbers are the same ones that the Marriott points specialist that I have been working also quoted to me. They are obviously the numbers being passed around internally at Marriott.

 

[hotcoffee]

So is this 9% inventory that is in the trust, or is it inventory that Marriott owned that they didn't convey to the trust?

I can tell you what my points specialist told me about the 9%. This figure was quoted to me in response to my question about there being a lot of inventory in the Trust. I interpreted his response to mean that the Trust did not account for a major portion of the available inventory. Nothing was said about any other unsold weeks as if there were another pot of them unaccounted for.

 

[DanCali]

20% of inventory from MRP conversions?

I thought MRP conversions is Marriott's inventory to rent out. Why would they just give it away to timeshare owners? Doesn't make sense to me...

 

[dioxide45]

Were We Naïve?

Were we naïve to think that by enrolling that we would have unlimited access to trust inventory? Perhaps we were, without really looking at how this program works. In reality the trust is just another enrolled weeks owner. The trust owns weeks just like the rest of us. Why would we think we could get free pickings at those trust weeks. We know they don't get free picking of ours.

IN an exchange program, someone always has to deposit first. In the scenario outlined it would seem that we weeks owners have to be the first, but that isn't necessarily true. Those who convert to points, delinquent and unsold non-trust weeks will be available in the exchange company. Also with all the people just reserving weeks and depositing in to II. There will be lots of seed inventory for people who convert their enrolled week to points.

It also seems like you will have the option to search before you deposit just like in II. So in reality this system isn't much different from II. The problem that Marriott claims that many had with II were the waiting and the website problems. We all know that Marriott is not perfect on the website end. At 9:00 am on inventory release days there are constant lock ups on the website when trying to reserve a week. The phones are also jammed.

People also didn't like the waiting game with II. Though I don't see how Marriott plans to make this better. The inventory is the same, the waiting game will continue. Though the trade power now is transparent, so there is no waiting in hopes your week is powerful enough. You know what you can and can't get. Though many people know that it is at a cost. So now the complaints moves from non-transparent trade power to skimming points. Just going from one issue to another.

I believe that the trust will not be depositing actual time/weeks/days in to the exchange company. If a trust owner makes a three day reservation that costs 900 points, then 900 points become available to members of the exchange company to reserve trust inventory. So as soon as trust points are available in the exchange program, those points can be used to book the best Christmas HI week or the worst bronze HHI. Marriott won't get to pick what it gets to deposit, there won't be depositing the "crumbs" or worst weeks.

In reality enrollees have the power to pick what they want to do. Either reserve their week or see what is in the exchange program. You can look before you deposit just like II.

I am not a fan of the points program as I don't think it will get us the value we have received in the past, but I don't think the black helicopters are coming either.

 

[Dave M]

Naive? No. Premature? Possibly.

There were (and still are) so many unanswered questions that it seems too early to be making a positive decision to sign up, even for those who are inclined to do so. I don't see any need to rush into spending money that might or might not be well spent.

 

[JimC]

...IN an exchange program, someone always has to deposit first.....

Not necessarily. In DVC within seven months of check-in points are points and anyone can reserve at any resort in the system. It does not require any "deposits".

That is what I was hoping MVCI would design for their own internal exchange program. MVCI chose not to go that route.

 

[dioxide45]

Not necessarily. In DVC within seven months of check-in points are points and anyone can reserve at any resort in the system. It does not require any "deposits".

That is what I was hoping MVCI would design for their own internal exchange program. MVCI chose not to go that route.

True, but DVC isn't an exchange company. So as you said Marriott opted to go the exchange company route.

 

[musical2]

I believe this is true with a couple of small exceptions.

While I believe you can search Exchange Co inventory prior to converting to points ("request first"), you cannot convert after Sep 30. Which means that for Oct-Dec (Nov-Dec for 13 months out) reservations you'll have to convert to points ("deposit first") without knowing if what you want is there.

Also, I think that if you want to use the "waitlist" feature of the program, you need to convert to points ("deposit first") and hope for the best.

On both these fronts retail points owners have an edge on you because they get to browse inventory all year and waitlist ("request first" in their case) without "depositing" unless they get what they want.

Did I convince you yet?

I'm not convinced either way yet. I am going to play wait and see for a while. I received an "Enrollment Kit" from Marriott in the mail today. It doesn't have much information in it. It is more like a marketing brochure.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'd have to disagree with your take on this.......Every advantage that Marriott has given to those mentioned above where given based entirely on money spent on/at Marriott. The more money spent, the more perks received from Marriott. Those loyalty type perks are the norm.

However, in this case, it doesn't matter how much one has spent on the same product "timeshares." Weeks vs points," the advantage is clearly being given to points. All points currently being sold are coming from existing timeshare properties....It's the same exact product, being marketed differently.

You could have spent 150,000 on timeshare purchases, and the person who now spends $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, etc., on points, is being given the advantage. The product is the same. It's being marketing differently, but it's the same timeshares that many have invested thousands of dollars into, and are now being treated as second class citizens. That's how I see it, at any rate.


It isn't what it's not.....And, that's a fair deal for Legacy owners.

Assuming of course that the worse scenario described in this thread comes to fruition.

Are you saying there aren't multi-week external resale owners who spent less for their multi-weeks than an owner of a single developer week? Sure there are, and those owners who spent less money get the 13-mo reservation advantage, which is not available to the single-week owner who spent more.

As you say, it's not about how much any owners have spent, it's about what they've purchased. Always has been.

 

[dioxide45]

I was the OP of the original thread that infamously took a turn at post #16.
When we were at the presentation at MCV, and after we refused to buy points or enroll our weeks, we had to sign a document that states we could not enroll our weeks later if we changed our mind. It was now or never.
I HATE this tactic and simply made it easier to decline.

Diamond Resorts has the same policy and we declined their program as well.

This would support some of what Doug has been mentioning. In that the offer of 800 points and the price guaranty is only good until our reservation later this year and not 12/31.

 

[skimble]

Were we naïve to think that by enrolling that we would have unlimited access to trust inventory? Perhaps we were, without really looking at how this program works. In reality the trust is just another enrolled weeks owner. The trust owns weeks just like the rest of us. Why would we think we could get free pickings at those trust weeks. We know they don't get free picking of ours.

IN an exchange program, someone always has to deposit first. In the scenario outlined it would seem that we weeks owners have to be the first, but that isn't necessarily true. Those who convert to points, delinquent and unsold non-trust weeks will be available in the exchange company. Also with all the people just reserving weeks and depositing in to II. There will be lots of seed inventory for people who convert their enrolled week to points.
.

For many on this thread, there seems to be confusion in semantics or a lack of understanding on the basic concept of a Trust. Instead of buying ownership in a property, the timeshare owners who purchase in the Trust are purchasing shares of a business entity. Marriott should have given it a different name to avoid confusion-- the Ttoirram Trust Inc.
As a fractional owner in this business, you have the option to pull out your annual earnings-- your share of use time, or rent it out for profit. Within the Trust, there is no exchanging as we know it. Owners in the trust are basically shifting pockets with the corporate inventory.
Like Diox says, we wouldn't allow them to take our weeks and use them, why would anybody cry foul when they claim first rights to their week. You will see inventory from the Trust if they choose to deposit it.

The concept of a Trust for timeshare developers is brilliant... I can't say I like it, but it's brilliant.

 

[puckmanfl]

Good morning!!!


MVCD quotes surveys that states customers want a flexible point system that eliminates the uncertainty of exchange systems,then designs a point system that for legacy owners is essentially an "exchange system.....

there is a misconception that trust owners own the trust.

if there are100,000 units in the trust and 10,000 units purchase The trust owners own 10% of the trust. MVCD owns 90%. Just like now,they can do what they please with the inventory. they can easily place this inventory in the exchange giving access to ALL point players. The system would self perpetuate as there would be incentive for legacy owners to convert and create MORE point inventory....

We now have a point system for legacy owners, that requires deposits and exchanging!!!! And legacy owners don't get the first move....

 

[JimIg23]

9% Trust Units (that Marriott can release to exchange members after a while)

The trust only grows with new resorts and ROFR (what is there 6% resale owners?, not very big resale market unless there is a mass sell off)

20% Convert to MRP (Very High! I was told Marriott could use those in the trust, but some could be rented, and some later given to exchangers)

20% week owners expected to become exchange members (Which may also be completely bad info we picked up)

Not alot of inventory for exchange weeks, considering not even half of the exchange members will add points, they will hold on to that week until they are confirmed points will have a match they want....).

One of the major points of joining (for me) is if the point inventory becomes the only real way of getting Marriott exchanges, which is what I want. There would have to be 1) massive deeded week owner conversion or 2) massive sell off to get even close. Is that even realistic 5 years from now?

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning

If unsold inventory is only 9%, then MVCD has done a lot of tinkering for a product that by definition is 91% sold out...

I believe unsold inventory. It is my belief that the 440,000 owners number is actually "weeks owned"". My guru told me the average owner has 1.8 weeks. If there are 440,000 owners, the would own 760,000 weeks. There are only 750,000 week intervals in the entire system...

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning

For the Tuggers that have been involved at this longer than me....

is there any other point system out there that is in actuality an "exchange" system. In this system for the legacy owners. Any point inventory has to be deposited by another owner.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning


no more negative tidings from me!! I am going to test drive the system on 7/26 and will report back to the gang!!!

I will keep a hand in both the weeks and points "cookie jar" and see how it goes!!!!

Lakeshore Reserve is a stunning property!!! 3 bedroom townhouse rocks!!!

seems to be a bunch of good II inventory today!!!!

maybe the doom scenarios are wrong!!!

 

[MALC9990]

I can understand the Marriott business case for moving to the points based system going forward. It has to be very similar to the case made for the Asia Pacific Club which is points based - it just uses different points values and volumes. When I bought into the Phuket Beach Club, it was still being developed and part of MVCI. However they found that sales in Asia were not as good as expected and a majority of sales were going to Europeans like me who just loved the resort. Thailand, whilst it is a long flight, is a very popular destination with Europeans. The following might help anyone still mulling over the new Destination Club points system.
The MVCAP points system was introduced to attract Asian sales where the market demanded more flexibility for short duration stays - 2 or 3 days over a weekend for example. What happened was that ALL the unsold units at Phuket Beach Club were transferred to MVCAP and all sales for weeks to customers ceased and points sales started - 4 years ago.
The MVCAP system now has units at a small number of MVC resorts across Asia (Phuket - 2 resorts, Hawaii - 2 Resorts, Bangkok - 1 resort and Las Vegas – 1 resort. The way my VOA in Phuket explained this was that the units at the resorts were all owned by MVCAP and MVCAP now pays the maintenance fees as any other owner would do. MVCAP sells points to customers and these points may be exchanged for time at the resorts. The number of points required varies by resort and season at the resort and also depends on the length of stay – the weekly rate will be less than 7 times the daily rate and also day rate for weekend days is higher than weekday.
In addition to the resorts available for booking using points, MVCAP has the Club Connections programme in which MVCAP members can use MVCAP points to stay at a number of Marriott Hotels across Asia and Australia. The programme operates much like reserving at a Marriott using your MR points except that you do the reservation through the MVCAP members WEB site or via one of the MVCAP owners call centres. Among the list of Club Connections hotels are two MVCI resorts in Europe – Paris and Marbella.
So far I have used my MVCAP points to stay at the Singapore Marriott for three nights – this was a very good deal as the MVCAP points required was 9,000 which was equivalent to 45,000 MR points – the same three nights would have cost me 90,000 MR points so I regard this as a very good deal. My MVCAP points purchased initially can be exchanged for MR points at a rate of 5 MR points for 1 MVCAP points. More recent purchases only get 3 MR points for 1 MVCAP point.
Like the new Destinations Club programme, legacy owners of weeks at Phuket Beach Club have been offered the opportunity to exchange their week(s) for MVCAP points on an annual basis, - the fee in my case for this was to purchase a minimum number of extra points – something I was planning to do anyway as I had decided I needed a few more points. The big difference is thyat there is no “SKIM” – not at present anyway. Each week exchanged get enough points to book a week at the home resort in the same season.
MVCAP members can also exchange through II – all one needs to do is book a week at one of the 6 resorts and then either deposit or request first depending on your preference. Obviously you need an II membership for this to be possible.
Obviously there are some differences between the new Destinations Club scheme and the MVCAP scheme. MVCAP is not an exchange facility – to exchange to any other MVCI resort you need to use II (apart from Paris and Marbella). Using MVCAP points to book MVCI at Paris or Marbella is actually quite expensive as the points rate per night is fixed at 6,000 per night for a 2 bed unit and 8000 per night for a three bed unit. It would cost fewer points to exchange a week via II. However it is more attractive for a few nights stay if required.
So far my experience using MVCA points is limited to booking a week at Phuket Beach in December this year which I have linked to two weeks exchanged through II and staying three nights at the Singapore Marriott whilst on my way to Australia from the UK. The experience so far is pretty positive, I get more certainty in booking than using II for exchanges but then my experience with II has always been exceptional - in 7 years of using II I have never failed to get my requested weeks and have had some great Getaways.
Here is a list of the MVCAP Resorts and Cub Connections.
Club Resorts
Marriott’s Waiohai Beach Club
Kaua’i, Hawaii
Marriott’s Ko Olina Beach Club
Oahu, Hawaii
Marriott’s Grand Chateau
Las Vegas, Nevada
Marriott’s Vacation Club at the Empire Place
Bangkok, Thailand
Marriott’s Mai Khao Beach
Mai Khao, Thailand
Marriott’s Phuket Beach Club
Phuket, Thailand
Club Connections
Courtyard Surfers Paradise Resort
Gold Coast, Australia
Sydney Marriott Hotel
Sydney, Australia
Courtyard by Marriott Beijing
Beijing, China
JW Marriott Hotel Beijing
Beijing, China
JW Marriott Hotel Hong Kong
Hong Kong, China
Renaissance Harbour View Hotel Hong Kong
Hong Kong, China
The Ritz Carlton, Sanya
Hainan, China
Sanya Marriott Resort & Spa
Hainan, China
The Portman Ritz-Carlton, Shanghai
Shanghai, China
Marriott’s Village d’Ile de France
Bailly-Romainvilliers, France
Waikiki Beach Marriott Resort & Spa
Honolulu - Oahu, Hawaii
Ayana Resort & Spa, Bali
Bali, Indonesia
Okinawa Marriott Resort & Spa
Nago City Okinawa, Japan
Renaissance Sapporo Hotel
Sapporo, Japan
Courtyard by Marriott Tokyo Ginza Hotel
Tokyo, Japan
Renaissance Seoul Hotel
Seoul, Korea
Renaissance Kuala Lumpur Hotel
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
The Ritz-Carlton, Millenia Singapore
Singapore
Singapore Marriott Hotel
Singapore
Marriott’s Marbella Beach Resort
Marbella, Spain
Renaissance Koh Samui Resort & Spa
Koh Samui, Thailand
Renaissance Riverside Hotel Saigon
Saigon, Vietnam

 

[MALC9990]

good morning


no more negative tidings from me!! I am going to test drive the system on 7/26 and will report back to the gang!!!

I will keep a hand in both the weeks and points "cookie jar" and see how it goes!!!!

Lakeshore Reserve is a stunning property!!! 3 bedroom townhouse rocks!!!

seems to be a bunch of good II inventory today!!!!

maybe the doom scenarios are wrong!!!

I got an II request fullfilled today - requested just 1 week at 1 resort, only a few days ago and it came up exactly as I wanted. 1 week prime golfing time in Marriott Son Antem next May (Gold Season). Just what I wanted. I continue to be more than happy with II.

 

[ArtsieAng]

Are you saying there aren't multi-week external resale owners who spent less for their multi-weeks than an owner of a single developer week? Sure there are, and those owners who spent less money get the 13-mo reservation advantage, which is not available to the single-week owner who spent more.

As you say, it's not about how much any owners have spent, it's about what they've purchased. Always has been.

Originally Posted by SueDonJ
Just like with whatever advantages they've given to developer-direct buyers over external resale, and multi-week owners over single-week, and Platinum Elites over Gold over Silver in the MR program ... it is what it is. Marriott has always determined for itself its priority customer, this is no different.

Not saying that those who feel like red-headed stepchildren don't have a right to those feelings here, just that IMO it doesn't serve any good purpose to foster those feelings.

So, you take out one example from your original quote, and disregard all the others, to draw your conclusion.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.....For the most part, up until now, with Marriott, you got what you paid for, IMO.

 

[Dean]

good morning

For the Tuggers that have been involved at this longer than me....

is there any other point system out there that is in actuality an "exchange" system. In this system for the legacy owners. Any point inventory has to be deposited by another owner.

I think Hyatt works that way but don't know a lot about the system. With RCI points and Bluegreen the default is points but you have the option of reserving your own fixed week and it not being available to the trust. For DVC it is all UDI trust type inventory and is not actually based in a week at all though you have home resort priority.

 

[saturn28]

good morning

For the Tuggers that have been involved at this longer than me....

is there any other point system out there that is in actuality an "exchange" system. In this system for the legacy owners. Any point inventory has to be deposited by another owner.

I own at Hyatt. With Hyatt you have a deeded week that you have up to 6 months before your check-in date to reserve. If you don't reserve your deeded fixed week by then, your week automaically turns into Hyatt Vacation Club Points. You can choose to convert your weeks to points before that should you wish. The earliest you can book your home week or convert to points is 1 year.

The number of points you receive is dependant on the season that you own. Each resort has seasons the same way as Marriott's weeks program has seasons. Of course the higher demand seasons get more points than the lower demand seasons. You are not able to trade, buy, or exchange for more points should you be short of points.

With Hyatt points you can reserve 1 week, 2, 3, or 4 night stays and there is no skimming. The number of points you get for your week equals the number of points you will have to pay when you stay during your season at any other Hyatt Resort. In addition, should you want to make an exhange through II you will receive the same amount of points.

The seasons in Hyatt are Diamond, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze. Every Hyatt Resort has these seasons. Bronze is the lowest season and gets you 1300 points. When you trade through II the most points it will cost you to reserve a 2 bedroom unit at the highest demand resort during the highest demand season is 1300 points. The number of points required for lower demand seasons and resorts is less than 1300 points. In addition, the points required to reserve a studio or 1 bedroom through II would be 870 for a 1 bedroom and 430 for a studio. This is for the highest demand season and resort. It is less for less demand.

Now the other Hyatt Seasons get more points. The Diamond season gets 2200 Hyatt points and 2200 points when trading through II. Since it only takes 1300 points to reserve any 2 bedroom condo during the highest demand, you can see Hyatt points are worth a lot more than Marriott Points because you can reserve your week and still have points left over.

When you pay your maintenance fees, it includes membership in II as well as membership for trading internally to Hyatt resorts. You have to pay a fee of $39 for an internal exchange and the normal II fees for trading outside Hyatt. I can tell you that when I deposit my Hyatt points in II, I can pull the same Marriott Resorts that I pull using any of my Marriott weeks to search.


Here is a link to the Hyatt points calander.

http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/HVCPointsChartwithAspen.pdf

http://www.bywindkal.com/Hyatt/SeasonWeekR4.htm


Hyatt Interval World Points Chart

http://www.bywindkal.com/Files/HyattInterval.pdf

 

[SueDonJ]

So, you take out one example from your original quote, and disregard all the others, to draw your conclusion.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.....For the most part, up until now, with Marriott, you got what you paid for, IMO.

The three examples I gave were the MR Elite status, the multi-week 13-mo reservation advantage, and the resale v. direct advantage. And actually, I agree with you that for the most part within the Marriott Rewards system you get what you pay for - you can't rack up Elite nights for Plat/Gold/Silver status without spending in the form of hotel and timeshare nights along with VISA card spending.

But this was your quote, "I'd have to disagree with your take on this.......Every advantage that Marriott has given to those mentioned above where given based entirely on money spent on/at Marriott. The more money spent, the more perks received from Marriott. Those loyalty type perks are the norm."

The 13-mo advantage isn't tied to spending. Neither is the resale v. direct MRP-exchange option, if you consider that; 1) it's possible some folks have spent more on their resale week(s) than others have on direct, when you factor in the different resorts and the timing of the resale purchase (resales have sold for as much as $20K+ and direct for as little as $10K- over MVCI's history); and 2) the prevailing TUG sentiment is that the MRP-exchange option isn't worth the price differential between direct and resale.

So I guess I agree that MR is the loyalty program where spending is rewarded, but within the timeshare system it's just all about what you buy and not how much you spend.

 

[ArtsieAng]

The three examples I gave were the MR Elite status, the multi-week 13-mo reservation advantage, and the resale v. direct advantage. And actually, I agree with you that for the most part within the Marriott Rewards system you get what you pay for - you can't rack up Elite nights for Plat/Gold/Silver status without spending in the form of hotel and timeshare nights along with VISA card spending.

But this was your quote, "I'd have to disagree with your take on this.......Every advantage that Marriott has given to those mentioned above where given based entirely on money spent on/at Marriott. The more money spent, the more perks received from Marriott. Those loyalty type perks are the norm."

The 13-mo advantage isn't tied to spending. Neither is the resale v. direct MRP-exchange option, if you consider that; 1) it's possible some folks have spent more on their resale week(s) than others have on direct, when you factor in the different resorts and the timing of the resale purchase (resales have sold for as much as $20K+ and direct for as little as $10K- over MVCI's history); and 2) the prevailing TUG sentiment is that the MRP-exchange option isn't worth the price differential between direct and resale.

So I guess I agree that MR is the loyalty program where spending is rewarded, but within the timeshare system it's just all about what you buy and not how much you spend.

Susan.....In your original quote, you are the one who uses multi-week owners as getting an advantage over single week owners.

"multi-week owners over single-week."

You then thought of the one scenario where that was not the case, and used it to draw your current conclusion.

As far as someone who spent more on a resale than someone who purchased retail directly from Marriott.......That's certainly possible, however, Marriott did not make the money from the sale, therefore it really has no consequence to them, and is not a good example in this discussion.

In the old system, when you purchased a timeshare directly from Marriott, you were able to exchange that timeshare in for MRP. Each timeshare was given a particular amount of points. Was that amount not at least somewhat based on the actual cost of the timeshare? Also, bonus points for buying direct were given. Were those bonus points not somewhat based on the amount of money spent on your purchase?

 

[SueDonJ]

Susan.....In your original quote, you are the one who uses multi-week owners as getting an advantage over single week owners. You then thought of the one scenario where that was not the case, and used it to draw your current conclusion.

As far as someone who spent more on a resale than someone who purchased retail directly from Marriott.......That's certainly possible, however, Marriott did not make the money from the sale, therefore it really has no consequence to them, and is not a good example in this discussion.

In the old system, when you purchased a timeshare directly from Marriott, you were able to exchange that timeshare in for MRP. Each timeshare was given a particular amount of points. Was that amount not at least somewhat based on the actual cost of the timeshare? Also, bonus points for buying direct were given. Were those bonus points not somewhat based on the amount of money spent on your purchase?

Now I feel like I'm nitpicking, getting into whether we're talking about who gets the advantages or whether Marriott has given them. What does it matter? Multi-week owners get the 13-mo res advantage no matter if they purchased from Marriott or not, and the MRP-exchange advantage goes to whoever bought from Marriott regardless of how much they spent. I don't know how many resale multi-week owners there are but I suspect there are quite a few. I also don't know how many resale owners get better value from their price differential than if they bought direct and had the MRP-exchange option, but I suspect from reading TUG that most see more value in the money they've saved on their purchase.

As far as the MRP purchase incentives from MVCI, I honestly don't know if they were tied to the pricing structures. I know that several years ago they began offering fewer incentive points as well as devalued the usage options throughout the program, and when they implemented the 20% "sale" pricing structure last year the MRP incentives were discontinued for those sales.

Your point that I was responding to is that, "You could have spent 150,000 on timeshare purchases, and the person who now spends $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, etc., on points, is being given the advantage." And that's true, but it's no different than in the Weeks system where it doesn't matter how much you've spent, but what you've bought.

 

[ArtsieAng]

Now I feel like I'm nitpicking, getting into whether we're talking about who gets the advantages or whether Marriott has given them. What does it matter? Multi-week owners get the 13-mo res advantage no matter if they purchased from Marriott or not, and the MRP-exchange advantage goes to whoever bought from Marriott regardless of how much they spent. I don't know how many resale multi-week owners there are but I suspect there are quite a few. I also don't know how many resale owners get better value from their price differential than if they bought direct and had the MRP-exchange option, but I suspect from reading TUG that most see more value in the money they've saved on their purchase.

As far as the MRP purchase incentives from MVCI, I honestly don't know if they were tied to the pricing structures. I know that several years ago they began offering fewer incentive points as well as devalued the usage options throughout the program, and when they implemented the 20% "sale" pricing structure last year the MRP incentives were discontinued for those sales.

Your point that I was responding to is that, "You could have spent 150,000 on timeshare purchases, and the person who now spends $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, etc., on points, is being given the advantage." And that's true, but it's no different than in the Weeks system where it doesn't matter how much you've spent, but what you've bought.

I'm running out the door so, this will be my last post on this subject.

IMO......You are purchasing the same thing, just packed differently. But, I've already said that, and you disagree. The points being sold are for existing timeshares, that Legacy owners have already bought and paid for.