NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

[CMF]

BocaBum,

You and others should not be jumping to conclusions. The Destination Points Disclosure document does not support the conclusions that posters here seem to have arrived at.

But that is part or the problem, there are aspects of the system that, apparently, are not Disclosed.

Charles

 

[hotcoffee]

But that is part or the problem, there are aspects of the system that, apparently, are not Disclosed.

Charles

Which aspects in particular?

 

[ArtsieAng]

Originally Posted by SueDonJ
Just like with whatever advantages they've given to developer-direct buyers over external resale, and multi-week owners over single-week, and Platinum Elites over Gold over Silver in the MR program ... it is what it is. Marriott has always determined for itself its priority customer, this is no different.

Not saying that those who feel like red-headed stepchildren don't have a right to those feelings here, just that IMO it doesn't serve any good purpose to foster those feelings.

I'd have to disagree with your take on this.......Every advantage that Marriott has given to those mentioned above where given based entirely on money spent on/at Marriott. The more money spent, the more perks received from Marriott. Those loyalty type perks are the norm.

However, in this case, it doesn't matter how much one has spent on the same product "timeshares." Weeks vs points," the advantage is clearly being given to points. All points currently being sold are coming from existing timeshare properties....It's the same exact product, being marketed differently.

You could have spent 150,000 on timeshare purchases, and the person who now spends $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, etc., on points, is being given the advantage. The product is the same. It's being marketing differently, but it's the same timeshares that many have invested thousands of dollars into, and are now being treated as second class citizens. That's how I see it, at any rate.


It isn't what it's not.....And, that's a fair deal for Legacy owners.

Assuming of course that the worse scenario described in this thread comes to fruition.

 

[MikeZ]

BocaBum,

You and others should not be jumping to conclusions. The Destination Points Disclosure document does not support the conclusions that posters here seem to have arrived at.

Hotcoffee,

I am not sure which conclusions you are referring to, as many have been drawn on all sides of the issues! There are at least three different perspectives, with different views of how the points play out, with much direct feedback from Marriott employees.

I have to say this has been a very instructive thread. No big arguments, but a good sharing of fact and opinion as we all try to navigate the future in MarriottWorld! I have picked up some pearls of wisdom reading this from many contributors to this thread, and I thank you all!

I am trying to make the best, most pragmatic decision for my family with the changes in front of us, and the best way to do that is to be thoroughly educated.

I have stopped reacting emotionally to the issue, otherwise I would have sold my weeks on ebay a few weeks ago! And, I am glad I have-with TUGgers here to help me work through this.

I doubt that you (or me, or anyone) can agree with all of the posts here. The value is in looking for wisdom and discernment in them, whether or not we agree...

 

[hotcoffee]

Hotcoffee,

I am not sure which conclusions you are referring to, as many have been drawn on all sides of the issues! There are at least three different perspectives, with different views of how the points play out, with much direct feedback from Marriott employees.

I have to say this has been a very instructive thread. No big arguments, but a good sharing of fact and opinion as we all try to navigate the future in MarriottWorld! I have picked up some pearls of wisdom reading this from many contributors to this thread, and I thank you all!

I am trying to make the best, most pragmatic decision for my family with the changes in front of us, and the best way to do that is to be thoroughly educated.

I have stopped reacting emotionally to the issue, otherwise I would have sold my weeks on ebay a few weeks ago! And, I am glad I have-with TUGgers here to help me work through this.

I doubt that you (or me, or anyone) can agree with all of the posts here. The value is in looking for wisdom and discernment in them, whether or not we agree...

I extracted several excerpts from the disclosure document which were designed to be used by following along with your copy of the document. I can send that to you if you would like. I will not post it because it would be waste of time.

 

[musical2]

What you say is correct, but you are supporting my argument...

You week becomes available to the trust once you trade it for points. Once you trade for points, your points AUTOMATICALLY go to the exchange company and can be grabbed by trust owners. On the other hand, trust Owners' points go to the exchange company only if their inventory is not in the trust.

This is a good conversation because you are helping me think this through. However, wouldn't I also not put my week in the exchange company if I didn't find my week inventory when I wanted it by using the weeks method? In other words, I wouldn't trade for points to put in the exchange if I couldn't find the week I wanted in my inventory, just like they wouldn't trade points into the exchange unless their inventory didn't have what they wanted.

It would be more equitable if once you trade for points you can grab anything in the trust just as they can grab your week (i.e. points are points...).

But they can't grab my week unless I put it there. They can't touch my week in my weeks inventory or see my week in my weeks inventory just like I can't touch their trust inventory or see their weeks inventory until it is in the exchange.

I think (maybe) a good analogy unrelated to cookies owners is thinking about the II world. In terms of possibilities with the exchange company, Trust Members can book at their home resort, or log into Marriott Exchange Co (think like it is "II") and make an "instant exchange" (for enrolled weeks that were traded for points). A weeks owner can reserve their home resort or, to play with points, has to do a "deposit first" and then can grab any available inventory in the Exchange Co. Trust Members have access to Exchange Co Inventory without depositing, so you never see their inventory unless they exchange.

It's the fact that to play in points, you are doing a "deposit first" action while retail points don't that bothers people here. If Trust Members don't like the Exchange Co inventory (which they see anytime), you never have access to their inventory (because you see it only when they exchange).

But are we sure we have to do a "Deposit First" to see what is in the exchange? Or can we have a look in the exchange then decide to convert to points to get what we want? Does anyone really know, or like many things, is it speculation. I know I have been speculating.

 

[MALC9990]

There is no question that this program has been rolled out very poorly. It's too bad that Marriott didn't create a focus group from a cross section of TUG members to review the product and the product guides. If they did that, we could have provided them with great customer feedback on what the product should actually do and how it should be communicated. More importantly, that focus group could act as a communication vehicle for the product and program.

That said, I believe it is possible for this program to work. I think we need to now wait for the actual product to come out and kick the tires on it.

Up until now, we have been discussing a new product based on its brochure as opposed to the actual product.

We should probably reserve judgement until we see the real product. It's still possible to make it really good. Or, it could turn out to be as bad as well all feared. The truth will probably be somewhere in the middle.

So this Points scheme has been roilled out badly - how do you think it looks to MVCI owners in European resorts - all excluded from the new program - my resorts show up as "Not Eligible Affiliation Code" when I look to see what their points value might be. BUT - the the "Benefits" says - Choose any Marriott Vacation Club. How will points be used in any of the European Resorts - all owners are excluded from enrolling and exchanging for points and they are still selling weeks in Paris, Majorca and Playa Andaluz.

The only place I can exchange my weeks is in II and what sort of inventory will I see at Marriott Resorts in the USA or Carribean.

 

[puckmanfl]

Good evening

Musical

Some good news....

If you enroll, you can call your VOA and see the points inventory in the exchange. If you like something, you can then convert the week to points .

if you wait list you must convert the week to points!!!!

like to give both sides of the story

 

[DanCali]

This is a good conversation because you are helping me think this through. However, wouldn't I also not put my week in the exchange company if I didn't find my week inventory when I wanted it by using the weeks method? In other words, I wouldn't trade for points to put in the exchange if I couldn't find the week I wanted in my inventory, just like they wouldn't trade points into the exchange unless their inventory didn't have what they wanted.

I believe this is true with a couple of small exceptions.

While I believe you can search Exchange Co inventory prior to converting to points ("request first"), you cannot convert after Sep 30. Which means that for Oct-Dec (Nov-Dec for 13 months out) reservations you'll have to convert to points ("deposit first") without knowing if what you want is there.

Also, I think that if you want to use the "waitlist" feature of the program, you need to convert to points ("deposit first") and hope for the best.

On both these fronts retail points owners have an edge on you because they get to browse inventory all year and waitlist ("request first" in their case) without "depositing" unless they get what they want.

Did I convince you yet?

 

[BocaBum99]

Good evening

The new math

Legacy week -"skim"= legacy points < trust points....

Sure, but

Legacy week usage + option for Legacy points > trust points.

You are completely leaving out the option you have as a legacy week owner to NOT deposit your week and use it at your home resort or deposit it directly with II.

 

[BocaBum99]

BocaBum,

You and others should not be jumping to conclusions. The Destination Points Disclosure document does not support the conclusions that posters here seem to have arrived at.

Actually, I am not jumping to conclusions at all. I am interpreting what I am reading and coming up with a most likely case of what is actually going on. And, I am doing some scenario based planning in terms of the likely potential outcomes. I am then assigning probabilities for each scenario playing out and coming up with an expected program implementation.

Then, I am going to wait until I see the actual system to see if it reflects my understanding of how it should behave based on my theory. If it doesn't, I'll adjust my theory to find out what Marriott actually did.

Once I know that, it will be much more obvious for what we should do or not do.

 

[ArtsieAng]

Nevermind.

 

[puckmanfl]

Good evening.....


Boca....

Do you believe that legacy weeks usage hasn't changed. Yes, I can always use my home week but II inventory has to go down. MVCD is now a competitor for II exchanges!!

the nice girl on the videos said I can have it all!!!

 

[Cindala]

So this Points scheme has been roilled out badly - how do you think it looks to MVCI owners in European resorts - all excluded from the new program - my resorts show up as "Not Eligible Affiliation Code" when I look to see what their points value might be. BUT - the the "Benefits" says - Choose any Marriott Vacation Club. How will points be used in any of the European Resorts - all owners are excluded from enrolling and exchanging for points and they are still selling weeks in Paris, Majorca and Playa Andaluz.

The only place I can exchange my weeks is in II and what sort of inventory will I see at Marriott Resorts in the USA or Carribean.

Eventually I'm sure Marriott will figure out a way to include the European resorts in this new point scheme. Also, I think you will find that many owners will still be depositing their weeks into II. My week is currently deposited in II for 2011 with a request in for several locations, including Europe.

 

[puckmanfl]

Good evening.....

cindala....

Now MVCD will be using your II deposit to fulfill a trust points request. they have tons of good unsol trust inventory to put back..p

There will probably be MORE trust weeks in II than available to legacy point users using the Exchange company!!!!


I believe that functionally, this will all work out but the design is flawed!!!

 

[Cindala]

Good evening.....

cindala....

Now MVCD will be using your II deposit to fulfill a trust points request. they have tons of good unsol trust inventory to put back..p

There will probably be MORE trust weeks in II than available to legacy point users using the Exchange company!!!!


I believe that functionally, this will all work out but the design is flawed!!!

That's crappy! Although I have a Gold Orlando week....so who would want that!
Well, there are other exchange companies out there like SFX if II doesn't work out. Time will tell.

 

[MountainGal]

I hope I'm not repeating the same thing someone else may have brought up. It appears that if you convert to points you will never have access to future new resorts since all points at that time will be in the trust. Am I missing something.

 

[JimIg23]

I hope I'm not repeating the same thing someone else may have brought up. It appears that if you convert to points you will never have access to future new resorts since all points at that time will be in the trust. Am I missing something.

Last thing a rep told me is that you would, but when they decide to give them to the "exchange points bucket."

Has Dave gotten an answer yet? The thread is moving too fast....

 

[Venter]

So this Points scheme has been roilled out badly - how do you think it looks to MVCI owners in European resorts - all excluded from the new program - my resorts show up as "Not Eligible Affiliation Code" when I look to see what their points value might be. BUT - the the "Benefits" says - Choose any Marriott Vacation Club. How will points be used in any of the European Resorts - all owners are excluded from enrolling and exchanging for points and they are still selling weeks in Paris, Majorca and Playa Andaluz.

The only place I can exchange my weeks is in II and what sort of inventory will I see at Marriott Resorts in the USA or Carribean.

All trades to Europe/Asia will have to be done through interval international. Says so on the last page of the points calender.

I feel sorry for points owners having to trade through II for Europe as it seems quite high to trade with points especially high TDI.

Also I had a talk to both sides salesreps. The US one assured me that Marriott is earnestly working on incorporating Europe as soon as possible(trying to get me to join) and the European one that it will not be done for the next ten years(Granted he was trying to sell me a week) because points is the way US owners wanted and the way they holiday but Europeans take their weeks as they have more anual leave. The European one went on to say that is why US is now called destinations club but Europe remains under MVCI(International) umbrella.

I am quite miffed because I feel that there is no good in this for me. If I do not like it then it seems my Lake Shore week will be squeezed out of the system years down the line and if I do it is not a saving for me because I have to keep a different II account for Club Son Antem.

I will probably do calculations etc. after more is known about the program.

 

[puckmanfl]

Good evening from Lakeshore Reserve

so the distinct inventories are not based on some legal mumbo jumbo regarding ownership in the trust....

Jim's rep says MVCD can deposit trust inventory in the exchange at their discretion!

 

[dioxide45]

Good evening from Lakeshore Reserve

so the distinct inventories are not based on some legal mumbo jumbo regarding ownership in the trust....

Jim's rep says MVCD can deposit trust inventory in the exchange at their discretion!

This isn't any different from Marriott bulk banking with II. They have an oversupply of weeks that they don't want to go empty. So they give those to II to offer for exchanges.

So the legal requirements can still be there.

Enjoy Lakeshore Reserve. We are spending two nights there in November.

 

[MikeM132]

I'm certainly as interested as all of you about the outcome of this. I guess you can look at this giant discussion thread for the entertainment value. You seem to have the natural suspicion of a new program fueled by some conflicting statements made by semi-trained Marriott employees as well as timeshare salesmen.
How does that old saying go that most of the things you worried about never happened?
Signed,
Alfred E Newman

 

[hotcoffee]

I'm certainly as interested as all of you about the outcome of this. I guess you can look at this giant discussion thread for the entertainment value. You seem to have the natural suspicion of a new program fueled by some conflicting statements made by semi-trained Marriott employees as well as timeshare salesmen.
How does that old saying go that most of the things you worried about never happened?
Signed,
Alfred E Newman

There have been so many theories and hysterical conclusions being posted to TUG that many here are simply believing them without any supporting evidence. Worse, the Marriott sales staff seem to know even less than those posting on TUG. Right now, it is a mess.

TUG is commonly read by Marriott staff personnel. One would think that they would get their act together; but so far, there does not seem to be much evidence of that happening. Hopefully, by July 26, at least most of the Marriott sales staff will know how the program works.

 

[Dave M]

Those numbers were posted in this thread (post #68 over 48 hours ago by the person who got them in response to a question to Marriott.

I found this on another (ahem) website....some of you know where. It described useage of all Marriott units. From this, it appears "pure points" owners might have exclusive use of a pretty small block of units, all unsold. Unless I am missing something, Marriott can only sell points for available units (not sure about available seasons). If Grand Ocean is sold out for platinum, Marriott has nothing to sell there. They can only sell the number of platinum intervals they have at unsold (or future) resorts. Otherwise, they'd have sold the same interval twice. Even if just points in the trust, there must be an underlying interval there somewhere to be legal. At least that's how I understand it. Please take a look at the following (agree with it or not, supposedly came direct from Marriott) and see if you also conclude legacy owners dominate the inventory:

Some interesting numbers from a Marriott rep:

27% of Inventory each year is kept by owners staying in their home club. This is the ONLY inventory you do not have access to.

43% of Inventory will be those who exchange into Interval or elect points for the year. As an enrolled owner, you have access to both of these pools - exchanged II weeks from owners who don't enroll and Elected Weeks.

21% of Inventory will come from owners who trade for Marriott Rewards Points

9% of Inventory will be all unsold weeks (and delinquent weeks).

 

[dioxide45]

9% of Inventory will be all unsold weeks (and delinquent weeks).

So is this 9% inventory that is in the trust, or is it inventory that Marriott owned that they didn't convey to the trust?